Oh dear...

[Vectis]

... I was asked for proof of PAT last night. For the first time EVER :eek:

It was by a jobsworth at a council owned facility. Interesting thing was that I arrived at the same time as the event photographer and we were both asked before we were allowed to sign in.

Photographer - "what's that, then?"

Me - "certainly - here's my records", whipping the plastic folder out of the laptop bag which contains a full set of docs.

So whilst the photographer was being appraised of the requirements, I was unloading gear.

About 20 minutes later, blokey comes up and says "sorry mate but I don't know what this is" - waving my certificates - "but I need to see your green stickers".

No problem of course, and he went away happy.


It was only on the drive home that it dawned on me that this guy must have been half asleep on the training course.

Why? Because a quick eBay throws up this (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m570.l1313&_nkw=PAT+testing+stickers&_sacat=See-All-Categories) :bang:

Oh dear :muppet: :muppet: :muppet: :muppet:

[WWDJ]

There's a roll of them in my garage that my PAT tester left behind accidently.

And before you ask. NO I DON'T!

[rob1963]

How strange.

I get asked for my PAT certificate several times each year, but nobody's ever said they want to see the green stickers on my gear. Just as well, really, as a few of them have fallen off!

[STEVE HANLEY]

Hi Martin

Does a photographer need these then?:confused: :confused:

Appologies if I'm being a:muppet:

[OllieJames]

Hi Martin

Does a photographer need these then?:confused: :confused:

Appologies if I'm being a:muppet:

If they're using gear with a mains connection, such as studio flashes (portrait shots) and printing gear then yes.

[gaza]

... I was asked for proof of PAT last night. For the first time EVER :eek:

It was by a jobsworth at a council owned facility. Interesting thing was that I arrived at the same time as the event photographer and we were both asked before we were allowed to sign in.

Photographer - "what's that, then?"

Me - "certainly - here's my records", whipping the plastic folder out of the laptop bag which contains a full set of docs.

So whilst the photographer was being appraised of the requirements, I was unloading gear.

About 20 minutes later, blokey comes up and says "sorry mate but I don't know what this is" - waving my certificates - "but I need to see your green stickers".

No problem of course, and he went away happy.


It was only on the drive home that it dawned on me that this guy must have been half asleep on the training course.

Why? Because a quick eBay throws up this (http://shop.ebay.co.uk/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m570.l1313&_nkw=PAT+testing+stickers&_sacat=See-All-Categories) :bang:

Oh dear :muppet: :muppet: :muppet: :muppet:


But why would people pay £20 for the stickers when my pat test only cost £43, i know people on here have to pay more that i did, but what a worry it would be just puting the stickers on yourself:eek:

[Vectis]

Hi Martin

Does a photographer need these then?:confused: :confused:

Appologies if I'm being a:muppet:

Errr.... yeah :o PA in the PAT sense doesn't stand for public address :D



But why would people pay £20 for the stickers when my pat test only cost £43, i know people on here have to pay more that i did, but what a worry it would be just puting the stickers on yourself:eek:

My point being that a 5-second eBay throws up loads of ads for stickers and I'm sure if you wanted less than 10000 you could get say 100 for a lot less than £20.

The local council have obviously sent numpty nuts on a health & safety course of some kind (this is the caretaker of a multi-use facility that has a 300-capacity function room) and so far as he's concerned if he can see a green sticker that means it's safe :eek:

[wensleydale]

But equally if people want to forge a certificate there's no reason why they cant do that too.

[Danno13]

A "PAT certificate" seems to be something that some testers have invented anyway.

The only requiremement is a record of testing, so an asset inventory with the results of each test with a pass/fail indication, is perfectly fine.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

A "PAT certificate" seems to be something that some testers have invented anyway.

The only requiremement is a record of testing, so an asset inventory with the results of each test with a pass/fail indication, is perfectly fine.

Thats all i get. I get a spreadsheet (for want of a better way of describing it) and the gear gets a sticker, but like in the case with my mixer, because the easiest place to put it was also near where my hands are, the ink rubbed off.

[TONYTIGER]

Pat Testing again:bang: Were to start as pointed out you can buy stickers pat testing certificates in fact even a disc were you can make up your own paperwork so a much abused system in our rental department yes we test all our gear every January when things are quiet but thats not the end of it you just can not sit back and be smug and think done that for this year in the worst case gear you tested yesterday can kill someone today so i urge all mobiles to check there electrical equipment certainly visual after every gig because those little green stickers are not worth a dime except for over the top council nerds,but then i am preaching to the converted on this forum your all good boys and girls:)check check check and be safe.Have a great W/E and enjoy the sun.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

All on my gear gets a visual inspection before each gig, and i have my own spreadsheet system for logging everything down every 3 months (or sooner if i find an issue at a gig).

[Twinspin]

I know some people might take advantage of the labels been sold on ebay. But i think the purpos on them been on ebay is for P.A.T testers themselves to buy the supplies they need to do their job.

It would be very easy to forge a PAT sticker for anyone stupid enough to do it and stick it on their gear.

I show P.A.T certificates to everywhere i go 95% of the venues here ask for P.A.T as well and PLI.

[Sapphire Disco]

Never been asked for certificate on the night but have had to email a copy of it out before I've been accepted.

[rob1963]

I know some people might take advantage of the labels been sold on ebay. But i think the purpose of them been on ebay is for P.A.T testers themselves to buy the supplies they need to do their job.


That's also what I'd have thought.

[DJMaxG]

PAT isn't a legal requirement remember, it is just a requirement of some public locations.

The stickers obviously also optional, therefore I would not bother with them, and just keep the certificates on you. No sticky residue left behind ;)

[Pe7e]

I show P.A.T certificates to everywhere i go 95% of the venues here ask for P.A.T as well and PLI.

With no disrespect intended to yourself, I find that statement almost unbeleivable, in the last few years I've never been asked for PAT, PLI, CRB Pro dub or any other checks, despite doing gigs at high end venues and regular gigs for 'Special Needs' kids in a council owned venue.

[discomobiledj]

PAT isn't a legal requirement remember, it is just a requirement of some public locations.

Lucky you don't need it then!



The stickers obviously also optional, therefore I would not bother with them, and just keep the certificates on you. No sticky residue left behind ;)

And this is a fact is it? How would you confirm that the equipment is the same on the sheet that is on show?

[robbiedj]

Lucky you don't need it then!



And this is a fact is it? How would you confirm that the equipment is the same on the sheet that is on show?

The serial numbers should be listed on the sheet.
It should state make, model & serial number of all equipment except, obviously cables etc which have no numbers.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

PAT isn't a legal requirement remember, it is just a requirement of some public locations.

The stickers obviously also optional, therefore I would not bother with them, and just keep the certificates on you. No sticky residue left behind ;)


When Ive had mine done they have put them on as standard and its included in the cost.

Cant see why you wouldnt want these on

[1st Choice Karaoke]

In what is now 10 years in the business, I can count on one hand the number of times I have been asked for PAT and PLI. Its a shame, cos quite a few of the Sixty Quid Sids of this world wouldn't be getting gigs if the venues chcked...

[DJMaxG]

Sixty quid sid's tend to have PLI for access to the venue - Yep

It is the legality of music files that always slips through the net, as there is no way of knowing, unless the original receipts are presented prior to setup.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Sixty quid sid's tend to have PLI for access to the venue - Yep

It is the legality of music files that always slips through the net, as there is no way of knowing, unless the original receipts are presented prior to setup.


Care to qualify that comment with any evidence Max as I'd have to strongly disagree with you

[cosmicdiscos]

Surely PAT testing is a waste of time...it could develop a fault immediately after the PAT test. So really, the test is to say the item is safe to use at the time of testing only.
load of rubbish......although all my stuff is tested.....by me! (electrician)

[DJMaxG]

Care to qualify that comment with any evidence Max as I'd have to strongly disagree with you

How else would they enter?

I think any person that commits the same activity (DJing) on a constant basis will have what is required. It only costs £100-£200 per year to get the average rig checked, from what I've heard.

[Vectis]

Surely PAT testing is a waste of time

Not if you identify a potentially lethal fault it isn't :muppet:



Sit could develop a fault immediately after the PAT test. So really, the test is to say the item is safe to use at the time of testing only.


Yep. Same with cars and MOTs, but how many of us have taken a seemingly fine car to the garage and failed an MOT before now?

[DJMaxG]

Not if you identify a potentially lethal fault it isn't :muppet:

and it would also be useful in court or for insurance claims to cover yourself in the event of an accidental failure resulting in injury to other parties.

[cosmicdiscos]

Not if you identify a potentially lethal fault it isn't :muppet:




Yep. Same with cars and MOTs, but how many of us have taken a seemingly fine car to the garage and failed an MOT before now?


But we don't all get our home appliances tested do we?, there could be some serious underlying faults...

[Vectis]

But we don't all get our home appliances tested do we?

I do :o

Once you've had a TV spontaneously combust on you, you don't take chances.


Anyway, we're talking about disco equipment. We don't wheel our dishwasher into darkened rooms full of hundreds of inebriated strangers waving pint glasses and beer bottles around...

[Excalibur]

Not if you identify a potentially lethal fault it isn't :muppet:
Yep. Same with cars and MOTs, but how many of us have taken a seemingly fine car to the garage and failed an MOT before now?

Agreed, but the PAT test should not be taken in isolation. Regular visual checks must also be performed as a minimum.

The exactly correct analogy, young Sir. ;)

[Dynamic Entertainment]

One of the first gigs i got when i set out on my own was with a swing band made up of elderly gentlemen. In conversation with one of them, i was told that 10 years earlier they had a different...and better...lead singer. He was killed when he moves some electrical equipment which was in his way on the stage, and ended up fried...infront of the guests! :eek:

Dont know if its true, but the guy didnt put the story across as a wind up, and we were talking about PLI and PAT at the time (the venue was very strict on it).

[Tony Scott]

Anyway, we're talking about disco equipment. We don't wheel our dishwasher into darkened rooms full of hundreds of inebriated strangers waving pint glasses and beer bottles around...

When I used to put sound systems into warehouse free parties we once had the power go down because some punter thought it would be funny to put a can of beer in a microwave oven... BANG! :eek: :eek: :D

We never found out how the oven got there but needless to say the oven and the pillock were ejected from the warehouse pretty quickly.... :D

[sleah]

PAT isn't a legal requirement remember, it is just a requirement of some public locations.

The stickers obviously also optional, therefore I would not bother with them, and just keep the certificates on you. No sticky residue left behind ;)
Yes and no. They provide a quick and easy way of identifying if an iten has been tested and passed. I would say it's essential to label anything that fails and isn't fixed there and then however...


Sixty quid sid's tend to have PLI for access to the venue - Yep

How else would they enter?
Easily. In 20 odd years of DJing (part time) I have been asked once and that was to just email both PLI & PAT certificates. I've been told about venues that insist on PAT certs, but never actually been asked!!!

[Jonathan Ford]

Easily. In 20 odd years of DJing (part time) I have been asked once and that was to just email both PLI & PAT certificates. I've been told about venues that insist on PAT certs, but never actually been asked!!!

Same here. I'll be honest and say that none of my gear is PAT tested. The day it costs me a gig, I'll have it done.

[Vectis]

Same here. I'll be honest and say that none of my gear is PAT tested. The day it costs me a gig, I'll have it done.

... and if it costs a life before that happens? :eek:

[woody2]

we dont use stickers,all equipment is bar coded, from every lead to major item,when anything is tested be it visual or PAT test it is recorded, it shows to a court that you have taken every responsible measure

as for PLI it does not make you exempt from prosecution by HSE in the criminal
courts

i am aware of a case recently,after a accident which had left someone in a wheel chair which the companies PLI took care of,even after showing the item had been tested weeks before the owner of the business was personally fined 15k as well as the testing company 35k,so dont think "I'm alright jack"

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Same here. I'll be honest and say that none of my gear is PAT tested. The day it costs me a gig, I'll have it done.

Dear oh dear.

What a great advert for our industry.:bang:

[DJMaxG]

Is appliance testing a requirement of any of insurance companies, for public liability cover?

[discomobiledj]

Is appliance testing a requirement of any of insurance companies, for public liability cover?

If you actually had a business then you would know the answer.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

If you actually had a business then you would know the answer.


Thats abit unfair he was asking about other industries so even if you had your own business you still might not know the answer.

[Excalibur]

Same here. I'll be honest and say that none of my gear is PAT tested. The day it costs me a gig, I'll have it done.


... and if it costs a life before that happens? :eek:
Vectis, I applaud anyone whose gear is PAT tested, but as in your MOT analogy, the piece of paper is no guarantee that the kit which was fine twelve months ago,and bears the badge to prove it after some concerted neglect may well still be potentially fatal. ;)

The first gear I ever saw bearing the sticker was so bad that I would not have dared to plug it in.:eek: :eek:


Same here. I'll be honest and say that none of my gear is PAT tested. The day it costs me a gig, I'll have it done.

Dear oh dear.

What a great advert for our industry.:bang:
It has cost me one gig in thirty years, and I am in no way advocating that as a reason not to PAT test your gear.
Mine will have to be tested in the foreseeable future, as it will not be long before it starts to bar you from many more gigs. ;)

However, here's a little tale which I have not made public, as I felt it was not helpful. I now feel the time is right.

Last year, I had a Marquee Wedding locally, and not surprisingly set the gear up in the morning. All set up, and tested, no problems, unsurprising, as we had a two legged 16a ceeform supply from the garage attached to the house, with full RCD protection, absolutely textbook installation. Lovely.

Caterers arrive, local firm, highly respected, know then well, and love working with them. They plugged in their kit, and asked if we would have a look, as it wasn't working. :confused: :bang: Funnily enough, ours wasn't now, either. :confused: :bang: :bang:

Caterers: " Well the fault can't be in our gear, cos it was all PAT tested yesterday".

To cut a long story short, after a spot of elimination testing, we worked out that one of their hostess trolleys, proudly bearing a green sticker dated yesterday, had an earth leakage fault which tripped the RCD's instantly. My unrested gear, maintained and checked only by a doddering old decrepit ignorant amateur trainee idiot was blameless.
Draw your own conclusions.


Is appliance testing a requirement of any of insurance companies, for public liability cover?
Maybe not, but I'll lay good odds that no PAT cert, no payout. ;)

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Pat testing isnt a foolproof bit of paper that allows you to not have to check your gear for the next 12 months! Its part of good practice!

When you have an mot on your van? do you not clean it? top up the oil, check the air pressure and trend on the tyres? Course you do why should the gear and equipment that you use for your trade not be the same or get the same treatment?

[Jonathan Ford]

... and if it costs a life before that happens? :eek:

The fact that an item passed a test, for arguments sake, 8 months ago, doesn't mean it won't go bang tomorrow.


Dear oh dear.

What a great advert for our industry.:bang:

I'm not interested in being a beacon for the industry. I'm merely interested in extracting as much profit from it as possible in the short time I need to continue doing it. £50 a year is better in my pocket than in the pocket of a PAT tester.

More importantly, I fully understand the arguments for having PAT tested equipment, and PLI for that matter, and have decided that both items are a needless expense.

In terms of the hotels and venues I work with, I have never been asked for proof of PAT testing or PLI in over fifteen years. As I've said, when it either becomes a legal requirement, or costs me work, I'll do it immediately.

[soundtracker]

The fact that an item passed a test, for arguments sake, 8 months ago, doesn't mean it won't go bang tomorrow.



I'm not interested in being a beacon for the industry. I'm merely interested in extracting as much profit from it as possible in the short time I need to continue doing it. £50 a year is better in my pocket than in the pocket of a PAT tester.

More importantly, I fully understand the arguments for having PAT tested equipment, and PLI for that matter, and have decided that both items are a needless expense.

In terms of the hotels and venues I work with, I have never been asked for proof of PAT testing or PLI in over fifteen years. As I've said, when it either becomes a legal requirement, or costs me work, I'll do it immediately.

But you are a "beacon for the industry" . - A WARNING BEACON

[StarZSoundS]

In terms of the hotels and venues I work with, I have never been asked for proof of PAT testing or PLI in over fifteen years.

All I can say then is you are either remarkably lucky.... or not a paticularly busy DJ......:eek: :eek: :eek:

I have both.I trust the others on here to assure me that they are fantastic value.Not having either would be a barrier to my business and for the sake of £120 a year I will continue to have both.....:) :) :)

Whilst I don't subscribe to all the best practises on this Forum they are two that make sound COMMERCIAL sense to me ;) ;) ;)