View Full Version : XLR Balanced Output Question
Shakermaker Promotions
18-07-2010, 12:08 PM
As asked in another thread (I don't want to go off topic and spoil the other one).
I know we've had this question before but I don't think I've seen an answer to this particular one...
Mixer Outputs (for example on my Numark)
XLR Balanced
Main (Phono)
Booth
If I am using the XLR Balanced Output, does it disable the Main (phono) Outputs. In other words, If I wanted to (and I don't really need to), could I use both outputs aswelll as the Booth output for monitors?
Does having the XLR Balanced connected mean that the Main (Phono) won't work and vice versa?
Cheers
G
TonyB
18-07-2010, 12:28 PM
Not usually but it may depend on the manufacturer. I've not come across a mixer where the phono output has been disabled when using the balanced out (or vice versa) but thats not to say some manufacturers may think it is a good idea to do it.
If I am using the XLR Balanced Output, does it disable the Main (phono) Outputs. In other words, If I wanted to (and I don't really need to), could I use both outputs aswelll as the Booth output for monitors?
Yes
Does having the XLR Balanced connected mean that the Main (Phono) won't work and vice versa?
I've never seen a mixer with that functionality. To do that would unnecessarily complicate the output stage with detection and relay circuitry, undoubtedly increasing production cost, whilst serving no useful purpose, indeed making the mixer less functional, as per the scenario you have descibed.
However, if without using an LMS you require a copy of the master LR, you're probably better physically splitting the balanced output or linking out of the first amplifier as you'll maintain a balanced signal chain, which is always preferable.
rob1963
18-07-2010, 02:01 PM
However, if without using an LMS you require a copy of the master LR,
:shrug:
Shakermaker Promotions
18-07-2010, 03:24 PM
Thanks for the advice.
It was a question I was asked a couple of weeks back and I didn't know the answer. I said at the time that it should be ok and wouldn't affect anything but I was guessing.
Thanks again.
DJMaxG
18-07-2010, 04:31 PM
Hi Mark,
I can tell you the answer to that from experience (Yes, I have tried it)
On my Gemini PMX1400, If you attempt to use the balanced (2x1/4" Jack) output and the phono output at the same time, then it splits the volume, so half of the sound goes to the one output, and the other half to the other output. (stereo comes through both outputs, as you would normally expect). Its just basically half of the volume, if you get me.
Max
Corabar Entertainment
18-07-2010, 05:12 PM
Who's Mark? :confused:
DJMaxG
18-07-2010, 05:14 PM
Who's Mark? :confused:
:lol:
Gary (Shakermaker) - I get the 2 mixed up
CRAZY K
19-07-2010, 06:30 AM
:lol:
Gary (Shakermaker) - I get the 2 mixed up
Angela, they do sound very similar;)
DJMaxG
19-07-2010, 08:16 AM
Similar Avatars as well
Corabar Entertainment
19-07-2010, 09:53 AM
Angela, they do sound very similar;)
Similar Avatars as wellWell, their first names have 4 letters and they both have event pictures as avatars - but 'similar'? :confused:
Anyway, we're hijacking this thread again! :blush:
:ontopic:
Excalibur
19-07-2010, 11:36 AM
Hi Mark,
I can tell you the answer to that from experience (Yes, I have tried it)
On my Gemini PMX1400, If you attempt to use the balanced (2x1/4" Jack) output and the phono output at the same time, then it splits the volume, so half of the sound goes to the one output, and the other half to the other output. (stereo comes through both outputs, as you would normally expect). Its just basically half of the volume, if you get me.
Max
Eh? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: Unless Max means something other than what he's written,( and it's not always easy to describe it I accept) then I disagree.
DJMaxG
19-07-2010, 01:07 PM
Peter - I agree, it probably is a bit confusing
Usually 100% of the sound is going into the amps/speakers
However, if you use both outputs :
50% goes to the one amp
50% goes to the other
(half of the volume - goes to each amp)
Excalibur
19-07-2010, 05:33 PM
Peter - I agree, it probably is a bit confusing
Usually 100% of the sound is going into the amps/speakers
However, if you use both outputs :
50% goes to the one amp
50% goes to the other
(half of the volume - goes to each amp)
Since I've not tried it with the kit you mention, I can't categorically disagree, but I can't see that if you're using the first set of outputs with a PA connected, and you plug a pair of phonos into the second set of outputs, the volume of the PA will drop. Get my drift?
I think you'll find that 100% goes to each set, not 50%. ( Unless you simply mean that the same sound goes to two instead of one, thus apppearing to be 50% ) .
DJMaxG
19-07-2010, 06:43 PM
On the Gemini, there is one master fader for 2 outputs, and 50% of the sound goes to each system, if you decide to run it that way :approve:
Excalibur
19-07-2010, 08:29 PM
On the Gemini, there is one master fader for 2 outputs, and 50% of the sound goes to each system, if you decide to run it that way :approve:
You've not understood any of my questions Max. If you plug an amp and speakers into one set of outputs, and set it playing, and then plug a set of leads into the other output ( leads only) does the volume drop? According to your theory yes.
The outputs don't have 50% each, they have equal amounts.
Just remembered, I ran one of these mixers myself for years.
Half of what volume ????????
If we are 'pre-amp' then half of what volume is noticeable??????
JTRS
DJMaxG
20-07-2010, 08:56 AM
Peter,
I havent triedd that yet, I hooked it all up before began playing. (as far as I remember) But yes, I assume that it would suddenly drop down to 50%.
;)
Excalibur
20-07-2010, 06:37 PM
Peter,
I havent triedd that yet, I hooked it all up before began playing. (as far as I remember) But yes, I assume that it would suddenly drop down to 50%.
;)
Well try it, cos I assume it wouldn't. ;)
I'm obviously missing something here, I thought we were talking about taking the output from a mixer, which is before it gets to the amp, so when people are saying that the volume is halved, exactly what volume is halved?
Are you then plugging 4 leads into a single amp and then expecting that amp to deliver the same level of sound to 4 speakers as it would have done to two?
Surely if you are taking 4 outs, you would send them to two different amps (or powered speakers)??????
JTRS
DJMaxG
20-07-2010, 07:19 PM
I'm obviously missing something here
One Master fader, 2 amps, 4 cabs.
Master > Amp 1 > Cabs
Master > Amp 2 > Cabs
The Master channel/fader has 2 sets of outputs, Balanced Jack and Phono.
Excalibur
20-07-2010, 07:33 PM
I'm obviously missing something here, I thought we were talking about taking the output from a mixer, which is before it gets to the amp, so when people are saying that the volume is halved, exactly what volume is halved?
Are you then plugging 4 leads into a single amp and then expecting that amp to deliver the same level of sound to 4 speakers as it would have done to two?
Surely if you are taking 4 outs, you would send them to two different amps (or powered speakers)??????
JTRS
Ahem, cough, cough. For "People" read " Max". ;) ;) He's saying that if you plug two amps, four cabs in, then each amp gets " half the output".
One Master fader, 2 amps, 4 cabs.
Master > Amp 1 > Cabs
Master > Amp 2 > Cabs
The Master channel/fader has 2 sets of outputs, Balanced Jack and Phono.
Yes that's what I thought we were talking about.
If you do it that way I fail to see how the volume level can be halved.
JTRS
DJMaxG
20-07-2010, 08:57 PM
I only tested it once, and I am pretty sure that the volume level (going IN to the amplifiers) was halved. Its only science though, If you have one output fader set to a certain gain, and you connect another output device (amp) to it, then the sound has to be shared.
Excalibur
20-07-2010, 09:09 PM
Yes that's what I thought we were talking about.
If you do it that way I fail to see how the volume level can be halved.
JTRS
Hallelujah, another one on my side. :D :D :D :D :D :D
+1 on your side, Peter
I've just read this thread and some of the suggestions contained within it are ridiculous nonsense.
No doubt from the same school which teaches that sound is measured in watts, and one needs x amount of watts per person in a given space....
...leading to the $20m question...
What happens if ten more people enter the room? Does the music become quieter for those already in the room, or do those who've just entered hear nothing because "there's no more watts left"?
:muppet:
I only tested it once, and I am pretty sure that the volume level (going IN to the amplifiers) was halved. Its only science though, If you have one output fader set to a certain gain, and you connect another output device (amp) to it, then the sound has to be shared.
How exactly did you measure the volume of the sound going in to the amplifiers?
Before it hits the amp it's line level!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Both output channels will send a line level signal to the amp, hence why it cannot possibly be halved
:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
JTRS
DJMaxG
21-07-2010, 08:23 AM
How exactly did you measure the volume of the sound going in to the amplifiers?
Before it hits the amp it's line level!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
With My ears, of course.
Both output channels will send a line level signal to the amp, hence why it cannot possibly be halved
It still has a gain prior to being output, which is shared and halved. I have noticed (by listening with my ears) that the sound drops. It all depends how a mixer is wired up etc. It is similar to if you split a gutter in half.
JTRS,
once you have purchased the mixer in question and conducted a test, not guessed or taken it for granted, perhaps you will notice that there is a noticable difference in volume to the human ear. I may even test it again for the sake of this thread.
Tony,
Have you tested this scenario out before (both phono and balanced ran off from the same "Master" output), Has the sound dropped?
Excalibur
21-07-2010, 06:24 PM
OK Max, you win. Folk like me who have thirty five years experience, and Tony who has knowledge far in excess of mine are obviously wrong.
DJMaxG
21-07-2010, 06:27 PM
OK Max, you win. Folk like me who have thirty five years experience, and Tony who has knowledge far in excess of mine are obviously wrong.
Peter,
nobody said that anyone was wrong
We have different boards, and I have only tested by listening. I havent coducting any technical tests or anything scientific as such. When I had the both amps connected up, it was a while back.
I was just stating what I heard
With My ears, of course.
Oh well in that case there's no point continuing
:bang:
JTRS
Tony,
Have you tested this scenario out before (both phono and balanced ran off from the same "Master" output)
Yes
Has the sound dropped?
No
Excalibur
21-07-2010, 08:35 PM
Yes
No
Yeah, but were you listening carefully, Tony? :confused: No Db meter? :D :D :D
No Db meter? :D :D :D
:confused: :confused: :confused:
Surely you mean a watt meter! :D :D :D
JTRS
DJMaxG
21-07-2010, 09:26 PM
Surely you mean a watt meter!
It would not be neccesary with professional audio anyway, apart from to ensure you did not overload the power supply.
Excalibur
21-07-2010, 09:33 PM
It would not be neccesary with professional audio anyway, apart from to ensure you did not overload the power supply.
Whoosh.
It would not be neccesary with professional audio anyway, apart from to ensure you did not overload the power supply.
:bang: :bang: :bang:
:bang: :bang: :bang:
Whoosh.
Exactly
JTRS
Corabar Entertainment
21-07-2010, 10:59 PM
Can I just say (from a non-techie's POV), that this thread has been the most entertaining techie thread ever written on this forum :D
Excalibur
22-07-2010, 11:52 AM
Can I just say (from a non-techie's POV), that this thread has been the most entertaining techie thread ever written on this forum :D
I suspect that to quite possibly be true. From the standpoint of a participant, I'd have to say " entertaining" is the last adjective I'd use. :( :( :( :(
Corabar Entertainment
22-07-2010, 11:57 AM
You have my sympathies Peter.... but you can take solace from the fact that you are suffering for the greater good. :p
Excalibur
22-07-2010, 12:05 PM
You have my sympathies Peter.... but you can take solace from the fact that you are suffering for the greater good. :p
And also providing entertainment. Exactly what it says on the tin. :D :D :D :D
DJMaxG
22-07-2010, 02:42 PM
To clarify for the final time : I was ONLY writing the results of my own tests - I did not say that other posters were wrong.
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