PLI & P.A.T documents

[Twinspin]

I was looking on facebook and another dj i know. He come up with an interesting point actually. about venues doing us professionals a favour and checking that djs and bands etc have valid certificates.

The trouble is.... you can forge both certificates and its been known to happen. How do venues know its a valid certificate and not fake.

What would be a great way to stop this.

Some authorisation company setup (by HSE) that works in conjunction with electricians and insurance companies and other forms of health and safety documents.

1. An electrician carries out a P.A.T test.... the certificate is printed with a unique identifier number. Once the test is done the certificates are electronically sent and registered with an authorisation company.

2. Insurance company sets up an new policy for public liability insurance with a policy number then the certificates are electronically sent to authorisation company and registered.

Now...

All venues are aware of this authorisation company and use it.

3. The entertainer takes his certificates to the venue. The person dealing with it rings the authorisation company and says can i verify this entertainers certificates. (the venue give the person from the company the Unique identifier on the P.A.T certificate and the PLI policy number they check on their system) they can then ask the entertainer to verify the name company and address if it matches job done.

it stops people trying to use fake certificates.

[notroubleclubber]

The thing is i dont think the HSE would get involved as both are not legally required (dont worry i have both!).
PAT testing is required as such as the H&S regs state that they need to be checked by a competent person. Im not a pat tester but i would say i can check my equipment competently as im an electrician (just not Pat registered).
Also PLI isnt legally required is it? Though it is better to have it.

I played at a posh venue last weekend and asked the venue manager if they wanted to see my certs, and was told not to worry!

[discomobiledj]

I've never been asked to show anything at all.

[Vectis]

Some authorisation company setup (by HSE) that works in conjunction with electricians and insurance companies and other forms of health and safety documents.

Welcome to Utopia! Enjoy your stay... :cool:

I don't wish to steer this towards politics as that would be naughty but it's clear that the current government are hell bent on de-quango-ising this country so I wouldn't expect such a move anytime soon.

There are always some who will forge anything if it saves them a few quid. The age-old problem with one-man outfits is that they can, if necessary, disappear without a trace and resurface again elsewhere under a different name and whilst this continues to be possible, there will always be chancers.

As regards PLI, I know from experience (;) ) that a quick call to the broker or underwriter as someone with a 'vested interest' and a few pieces of key information will garner a confirmation of legitimacy.

That's the document I'd be concerned about as a venue manager or bride or whatever. Because if the worst happens, and a faulty electrical item shocks someone or burns the place down, it's not the PAT guy who'll get the knock on the door it's the PLI insurer.



I played at a posh venue last weekend and asked the venue manager if they wanted to see my certs, and was told not to worry!

And therein lies the other problem. Imagine if you will a central database of all PATted items. 40,000 DJs rock up at venues around 6pm on a Saturday night with boots/trailers/van loads of gear. First the venue manager has to assess whether everything that comes through the door is indeed on the schedule, then has to sit in a long phone queue or on a very slow website to validate it.

Yeah, right :o

[andyw]

I've never been asked to show anything at all.

thats because your the stig and they know you wouldn't,

[rob1963]

Interesting idea, John, but I agree with what Vectis has said.

Also, for the small number of venues who DO require evidence of PLI & PAT, I think it's best to provide the certificates in advance, as it saves any messing around on the night.

They can then contact the PLI company to check that the policy is valid.

With regards to PAT testing, my reports contain a PAT serial number, which I assume relates to the person or company who did the testing & can therefore be checked, although I don't know if all PAT tests show this.

[discomobiledj]

thats because your the stig and they know you wouldn't,

:eek: :boxer2: :boxer:

[Pe7e]

With regards to PAT testing, my reports contain a PAT serial number, which I assume relates to the person or company who did the testing & can therefore be checked, although I don't know if all PAT tests show this.

The serial number relates to the PAT test machine, it should also have details of it's calibration date recorded. The PAT test companies who test equipment for businesses who are required to have a valid certificate, will provide this information.

[rob1963]

The serial number relates to the PAT test machine, it should also have details of it's calibration date recorded. The PAT test companies who test equipment for businesses who are required to have a valid certificate, will provide this information.

Ahhhh...thanks for the clarification.

:)

[Twinspin]

I know what you mean. You could always contact the broker. I think thats where a lot of venues make the mistake.

either not asking for certificates. or asking for them and not checking the validity of them.

[yourdj]

Easy to do (take 1 min probably - obviously i will not do that) but if something happens and the hotel is not insured the person would be liable for allot of money possibly jail term.

I would rather pay my £49 at amdj lol.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Just send all of your docs via email ahead of the date to the venue. Not only does it introduce yourself to the right person but it raises their awareness. Only way things are going to change is making venue owners aware.

[yourdj]

Just send all of your docs via email ahead of the date to the venue. Not only does it introduce yourself to the right person but it raises their awareness. Only way things are going to change is making venue owners aware.

i have mine online and as one of my tag lines on emails which helps with last min gigs :) :
http://your-dj-gallery.blogspot.com/2008/02/our-public-liability-insurance.html

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Just send all of your docs via email ahead of the date to the venue. Not only does it introduce yourself to the right person but it raises their awareness. Only way things are going to change is making venue owners aware.

That sounds very familiar advice...;)

[DeckstarDeluxe]

That sounds very familiar advice...;)

Yes sorry I should of accredited that to yourself Mr Thomas. Sound advice:clap:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Yes sorry I should of accredited that to yourself Mr Thomas. Sound advice:clap:

:beer1: :beer1: :beer1: :beer1:

Always works for me. :)

[DJ Jules]

i have mine online and as one of my tag lines on emails which helps with last min gigs :) :
http://your-dj-gallery.blogspot.com/2008/02/our-public-liability-insurance.html

Cheers dude - that makes it all the easier to forge mine :) (joking)

It might be worth considering putting them up as encrypted/secured PDF's so they can't be printed or have the content ripped out of them.

Julian

[Ajaysdisco]

It might be worth considering putting them up as encrypted/secured PDF's so they can't be printed or have the content ripped out of them.

Julian

Be warned “Print Screen” can get round the copy protection.
Your best bet is to PDF them and secure them as you said but add a relatively simple open password. Something not to obvious but could be given to the required people.

[DJMaxG]

They might as well publish it on the internet, why not? - Everything else it

If there was some kind of testing body, you could visit their website, enter the name of the Entertainer, and view a list of all the items that have been tested, and the date they passed inspection/test. The Electrician could enter it onto the database afterwards.

[Vectis]

They might as well publish it on the internet, why not? - Everything else it

If there was some kind of testing body, you could visit their website, enter the name of the Entertainer, and view a list of all the items that have been tested, and the date they passed inspection/test. The Electrician could enter it onto the database afterwards.


Think you must've skipped over my earlier comment Max...


Imagine if you will a central database of all PATted items. 40,000 DJs rock up at venues around 6pm on a Saturday night with boots/trailers/van loads of gear. First the venue manager has to assess whether everything that comes through the door is indeed on the schedule, then has to sit in a long phone queue or on a very slow website to validate it.


Once you've dealt with a few of these individuals, you'll realise that you're currently residing in La La Land :D

[DJMaxG]

Martin,
"Very slow website?"

Is the Produb verification slow?

You just simply enter the surname into the searchbox or at the end of the URL, following =, and job done.

If there was a central database, then insurance etc could be checked prior, and (possibly fake) certificates need not be e-mailed across.

The MDD has validators etc, but how do the public or venue managers know that it is legitimate proof?