Auto-Tune

[Mister Musicman]

I understand that X Factor bosses have now announced that the controversial "auto-tune" will not be used on contestants' voices in future shows. They explained that the sound filter was only used to remove additional noises:BS: .

After reading this it occurred to me that this audio technology could be used by wannabees on Karaoke as it is often used by record producers to mask bum notes in recording studios. I sometimes do a Karaoke and thought that this may allow my eardrums to carry on working a little longer.

I did a search on line and found that a free download is available @ http://www.brothersoft.com/autotune-download-71936.html and wondered if anyone out there had tried it out.
:DJ:
Rob (Mister Musicman)
www.mistermusicman.co.uk
People may forget what you say or look like, but they won't forget how you make them feel.

[MagicMusic]

The correct version of autotune is developed by Antares, it has a close cousin called Melodyne developed by a company called Celemony.

Neither are 100% perfect 100% of the time in studio use so I can't imagine any of the copy cat programmes would be any better, particularly when used live.

In any case, surely you'd be taking the "fun" out of Karaoke?

[BeerFunk]

I believe it's only effective when you're already very close to the correct notes.

[rob1963]

In any case, surely you'd be taking the "fun" out of Karaoke?

My thoughts exactly.

For me, the worse a karaoke singer is, the more amusing & entertaining it is.

Who wants to listen to a load of karaoke singers who all sound brilliant?

:confused:

[Mark Wild]

I believe it's only effective when you're already very close to the correct notes.

Indeed, it a good singer doesn't maketh. It's a VST plug-in as well so it would have to be run through other software e.g Audition. Fruity Loops, Cubase etc.
I'm not sure about the rack mounted hardware versions but, running it live as a VST would need a very high spec soundcard to avoid latency problems.

[CRAZY K]

My thoughts exactly.

Who wants to listen to a load of karaoke singers who all sound brilliant?

:confused:

Some chance;)

The whole music business is full of frauds, always has been, starting with lip synching or what we called miming together with the latest cheating.

I am just glad I have had a busy year so im rarely at home on a Saturday night and have to listen to the rubbish on the telly.

Just my view;)

[rob1963]

The whole music business is full of frauds, always has been, starting with lip synching or what we called miming together with the latest cheating.

Just my view;)

My view as well!

:D

[DazzyD]

It's my understanding that AutoTune doesn't perform very well in a live environment (ie on the fly) and it's much better employed during the editing/post production stages of music creation.

Saying that, we do use a hardware vocal processor VSP M1 (http://www.images2.co.uk/Sound_Equipment/Effects_Units.Feedback_Destroyers_And_Voice_Effect s/VSP_M1_6_MICROPHONE_MULTI_EFFECTS_PROCESSOR_WITH_H ARMONIZER_and_vocal_delay_and_echo_SR962101.html) which can do something similar in a live environment using the Vocal Harmonizer function. There is also have a key change / pitch bend facility which can be fine-tuned.

[Jonny Boy]

There's been a lot of discussion on this on some of the Musicians' and AV forums, and I spent a chunk of yesterday researching further. (So forgive me blathering on for ages below!)


I believe it's only effective when you're already very close to the correct notes.

This is correct. For studio use (and live, come to that) every singer will mis-pitch a few notes here and there. Autotune would iron out these by getting them in pitch with he rest of the in-tune notes.
Lots of people have compared it to using red-eye reduction in photoshop, or spell-checker, and I can't think of a better analogy.

Cheating?
In the studio: depends how much one uses it. Studio recordings are about the best it can be. Innovating studio techniques years ago didn't make Les Paul any less of an artist did it?
Very few singers today will not have several takes stitched together for the final master. Melodyne or whatever is just another gloss over the top IMO.

Allegedly, Dusty Springfield recorded "Nothing Has Been Proved" (with the Pet Shop Boys) one syllable at a time.....

Certainly not cheating if live IMO: think of it like using beat-match functions in VDJ or whatever... it's a tool. If you can't DJ for toffee/pick decent tunes in the first place it's not gonna help that much. Ditto autotune..... it's a world away from being Milli Vanilli!


Indeed, it a good singer doesn't maketh.
Exactly. If a singer is entirely flat/sharp or out or tune, it will make them sound worse. And the more one "turns up" (hard tunes) the compensation, the worse and more artificial it sounds. Think "Believe" by Cher. (Although I think that was deliberate.)


I'm not sure about the rack mounted hardware versions but, running it live as a VST would need a very high spec soundcard to avoid latency problems.

And processing headroom, I believe
In my electronica band we tried running Anatares on the fly to (a) support complex backing vocals and (b) to create the "Cher effect" live in some songs. It took up so much processing that some of the soft syths started to crash and go out of time during playback! So we abandoned it.
Beyonce or Buble have racks of processors dedicated to it.


.
...we do use a hardware vocal processor ....which can do something similar in a live environment using the Vocal Harmonizer function. There is also have a key change / pitch bend facility which can be fine-tuned.

I believe the key-change on that unit would be fixed for an entire number, unless you had an engineer sat riding the controls?
Something similiar, but which I think includes on-the-fly correction (ie for the odd off-note) is the VoiceLive by TC Helicon. From all accounts is the dogs wotsits but should be for circa £600. vfx, correction and vocal doubling/tripleing/quadtrupling all in a stompbox.
(Is quadtrupling even a word?!)
http://www.tc-helicon.com/voicelive2.asp

I have the baby cousin of this, which I will use live, especially if I have a tired or sore voice. Tone Correct is derived from part of the VoiceLive's functionality, I believe.
http://www.tc-helicon.com/voicetonecorrect.asp

It also adds warmth and compression to vocals and has a "de-ess" function to remove some sssssssibilanccccce. A guest "singer" performed through it at one function I did, and trust me she didn't sudden sound brilliant, so again it's not going to do much for the average Karaoke punter either.

[paulg]

The Voicetone correct is very good and we use them on our microphones but it will only tweek out a semitone or so. The problem with live correction being that the FOH speaker output is a different pitch to that of the vocalist resulting in the singer hearing a chorus effect. You can run a monitor output with no correction to reolve this. The audience only hears the corrected signal so there are no problems there. It is also a chromatic output based on perfect pitch so, if you change the track pitch by anything other than pure semitones, it can all sound a bit odd.

Back to the thread, it is useful to have correction. I'd recommend it to you. If your good singers sound even better, it helps the night along and certainly helps with re-books. It's noticeable how many people comment on how good they sound and it does karaoke no harm at all to hear decent singers on stage.

[Mark Wild]

I've always found the awful singers go down just as well (if not better) than the good singers, I don't think auto-tune has a place in karaoke nights.

[Jonny Boy]

If your good singers sound even better, it helps the night along and certainly helps with re-books. It's noticeable how many people comment on how good they sound and it does karaoke no harm at all to hear decent singers on stage.

That's a good point: never looked at it that way. For a performer they're worth the money brand new - you can get a good price used too

For example, just found this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TC-Helicon-voice-tone-correct-pedal-/330462799340?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Access_RL

barge-ain!

[Digital Jack]

Don't waste your money on a tuning device .Invest in a limiter / compressor for your mike channel instead , it may well save your speakers.