Another cheese debate

[Corabar Steve]

Just been reminded of a thought I've been having over the last few weeks.

Is Town Called Malice now quallifying as cheese?

In much the same way (albeit over a longer period) as Come On Eileen has become.

There was a time that Eileen was considered a good track, while it's still entertaining, there are as many groans as cheers when the "dum da dum, du da dums" start

TCM seems to be going the same way.

[Charlie Brown]

Nah, I don't think so.

I like to play that with The Clash, Stranglers, Blur, Jet etc. They're not cheese.

[Corabar Steve]

But I'm not talking about them Charlie, just the track in question, which seems to be getting the reaction that cheesey tracks do more & more often.

[Charlie Brown]

But I'm not talking about them Charlie,

Ahh, apologies.

Cause I associate The Jam with those other tunes - I still don't think it's cheese. Can you really compare that with the Music Man?

[Excalibur]

It could be said to be.

Along with Mr Brightside and Sex on fire. The time taken for tracks to become cheese sems to be shortening rapidly.

[Corabar Steve]

No, but by the same token what about Come on Eileen, Livin' on a prayer, Don't stop me now etc not in the same class as Music man, Agado, YMCA etc,but undeniably cheesy

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Nope but I know what Steve is getting at.

I hope it doesn't. Great tune similiar to Charming man and reef I hope that it doesnt get overplayed to the point its classed as cheese by Joe Average.

[Corabar Steve]

It could be said to be.

Along with Mr Brightside and Sex on fire. The time taken for tracks to become cheese sems to be shortening rapidly.
I think they are a way off yet, either that or people's definitions of cheese have changed big time.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I think all versions of The Time Warp are cheese. :sj:




:sofa:

[Excalibur]

I think they are a way off yet, either that or people's definitions of cheese have changed big time.

I disagree. I think they're there now. We play them, and a Pavlovian response ensues. They're not sitting on the floor, rowing, but that's a minor difference.

[Corabar Steve]

By that token I gotta feeling is also cheese yes? Or Valerie?

[Corabar Steve]

I think all versions of The Time Warp are cheese. :sj:




:sofa:
That much is obvious :P:moon::P:moon::P

[DeckstarDeluxe]

By that token I gotta feeling is also cheese yes? Or Valerie?

Feeling yes.

Valerie no

If I was doing a cheese night though I would certainly play valerie

[Corabar Steve]

What about TCM?

[Excalibur]

By that token I gotta feeling is also cheese yes? Or Valerie?

Feeling, no. Valerie, perilously close.

This is another area where there can be no definitive answer, nor is there likely to be much consensus, only various points of view.

[Corabar Steve]

Is it a case of (over)familiarity breeding contempt?


That said I think Start without you is pure cheese & it' only been out a few weeks.

[Charlie Brown]

I don't really understand this. :o

What is peoples definition of cheese? Just because you play a song at every gig does it make it chessy?

Personally, I don't think so.

[Excalibur]

Is it a case of (over)familiarity breeding contempt?

That said I think Start without you is pure cheese & it' only been out a few weeks.
I believe so.


I don't really understand this. :o

What is peoples definition of cheese? Just because you play a song at every gig does it make it chessy?
Personally, I don't think so.
No. But it's certainly a factor.

[Corabar Steve]

Generally I'd say it's the feel / content (or lack thereof) of a track, closely followed by the reaction from the crowd.

Which is why I'm asking about TCM, it has it's merits, but the reaction is increasingly similar to that associated with say Dancing queen or Come on Eileen (both songs of merit, but both undeniably cheese by most people's definitions)

[Megamix]

I tend to refer to certain tracks like Don't Stop Me Know and Livin' On A Prayer, Build me Up Buttercup as 'Over-played'- A Town Called Malice I don't play often - so to me it's not overplayed.
Unfortunately the customer is always right - so if its wanted, it usually has to be played

[DeckstarDeluxe]

What about Journey?

[rob1963]

I would never class "A Town Called Malice" as cheese (or any Jam track, come to that).

[Excalibur]

I would never class "A Town Called Malice" as cheese (or any Jam track, come to that).

On balance I'd agree with you, but it's a mighty close run thing in some cases, TCM in particular.


What about Journey?
Cheese. Pure and.

[Corabar Steve]

What about Journey?
Cheesey rock :sj:

[Excalibur]

Cheesey rock :sj:

And though I love loads of the stuff dearly, there's a load of AOR that seems to fit that description. ;) :(

[Corabar Steve]

I would never class "A Town Called Malice" as cheese (or any Jam track, come to that).
Is that a remix?

[DeckstarDeluxe]

See I dont class Journey as cheese, though again if I was doing a cheese set it would have its place

[Corabar Entertainment]

Here's a simple formula to decide if it's cheese or not....


...can you imagine the song sung by 'Same Difference'



:p :p :p

[rob1963]

Here's a simple formula to decide if it's cheese or not....

...can you imagine the song sung by 'Same Difference'

:p :p :p

In that case, I think we can safely say Town called Malice is NOT cheese!

:D :D :D

[DeckstarDeluxe]

whos same difference??

[rob1963]

whos same difference??

:doh:

[Corabar Steve]

3 years ago's version of Jedward

[Corabar Entertainment]

YouTube - X Factor 4, ep 16, Same Difference (itv.com/xfactor)

[BeerFunk]

I think if a certain track is played regularly at functions, people associate it with cheesy discos/parties, and so yes, it does almost become 'cheese'.

Other tracks, in my opinion, are cheese from the word go - which would include 'I Gotta Feeling' (which I've always thought sounds like something from The Tweenies) and 'Start Without You'.

[simonp]

I wouldn't class TCM as cheese at all, then again I don't play it that often. By the same token though I play Sex On Fire & Brightside pretty regular and don't consider them to be cheesy, however, give it a few more years and they could very well go the way of 'Eileen'. But back to the point in question, TCM definitely not cheese IMHO

[DazzyD]

TCM cheesy? Not to me personally, but I can see that to some folk it might well be. One man's roquefort and all that.


Here's a simple formula to decide if it's cheese or not....


...can you imagine the song sung by 'Same Difference'



:p :p :p

You should alter that formula to include "Same Difference and/or Jedward and/or Black Lace"! It would be a definitive formula for cheese, then!

Crikey! I've just paid £50 for two tickets to see the terrible twins in Newcastle in November! What was I thinking??? Newcastle?? Aarrrrggghhh! :bang:

:D :D :D

[Kernow]

and a Pavlovian response ensues.

Not the first time you've had the buffet thrown at you Peter ? ;) :D :D


Here's a simple formula to decide if it's cheese or not....


...can you imagine the song sung by 'Same Difference'



:p :p :p

I guess the definition of cheese is " a tune they expect to hear at a party, ireespective of the occasion or who the DJ is" ?

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Starting a student night this week and I tend to avoid using the term cheese but classics and anthems I think is a better description as even djs cant agree on what is and isn't cheese.

[Corabar Entertainment]

I guess the definition of cheese is " a tune they expect to hear at a party, ireespective of the occasion or who the DJ is" ?
:confused: I would say that the definition of 'cheese' is music that is 'cheesey' - hence my saying:-
Here's a simple formula to decide if it's cheese or not....


...can you imagine the song sung by 'Same Difference'



:p :p :p

[Kernow]

...can you imagine the song sung by 'Same Difference':p :p :p

I can imagine most songs being sung by them, injecting an element of fun and in tuneful harmony ;)
They're very talented siblings !! :p :D :D

Would you say the same about the Carpenters ?

[Corabar Steve]

I can imagine most songs being sung by them, injecting an element of fun and in tuneful harmony ;)
They're very talented siblings !! :p :D :D

Would you say the same about the Carpenters ?The Carpenters weren't as sickeningly twee

[Boghead Ben]

The term 'cheese' in relation to tracks that fill the dancefloor, is in my opinion an 'in-house' term.

We all know what works and what does not. As a party DJ, I play what I know will get people dancing, including all the participation tunes.

I did a gig recently - a 21st - and was given instructions what to play. Modern house tunes with some chart stuff. Dancefloor was dead, but plenty feet tapping and nodding heads around the tables.

After buffet, stuck on Status Quo and Rockin' All Over The World and we were off. 2 remaining hours the floor was jampacked with so-called cool kids doing the Birdie Song, Agadoo and I even taught them how to dance the Americano!

Good times!

[rob1963]

The term 'cheese' in relation to tracks that fill the dancefloor, is in my opinion an 'in-house' term.

We all know what works and what does not. As a party DJ, I play what I know will get people dancing, including all the participation tunes.

I did a gig recently - a 21st - and was given instructions what to play. Modern house tunes with some chart stuff. Dancefloor was dead, but plenty feet tapping and nodding heads around the tables.

After buffet, stuck on Status Quo and Rockin' All Over The World and we were off. 2 remaining hours the floor was jampacked with so-called cool kids doing the Birdie Song, Agadoo and I even taught them how to dance the Americano!

Good times!

I probably wouldn't play the Birdie song or Agadoo unless it was requested in advance by the client.

Apart from that, you and I seem to be singing from the same song sheet.

:thumbsup:

[simon1969]

The Jam, Cheese never !!!
It's a singalong (sub-category of cheese)... :) :D

[1st Choice Karaoke]

After reading the title i'm quite dissapointed this isn't a thread about Wensleydale and Double Gloucester ;-(

[Excalibur]

Rather than start a fresh thread, I decided to tag onto an existing one, as it basically fits this.

Before Christmas I covered a wedding at a hotel, with a playlist given. Also, some Do Not Plays.

No Abba, Queen, Football songs, and Cheese were the salient ones forbidden.

While chatting with the venue staff beforehand, they were aghast that Abba were banned, giving the stereotypical view that The Swedes were compulsory at weddings. :D What really baffled them though was that while Cheese was banned, on the list were Livin' on a Prayer, Sex On Fire, and Mr Brightside, which they declared unanimously to be cheese. :daft:

Were they right? What nowadays can safely be declared Cheese? There's another thread where Darren and I seemed to agree that for songs like Don't Stop Believing, Brightside and the rest, a sort of halfway house existed, and could legitimately be called " Anthems". Not Cheese, but played so much that they seemed like it. Certainly classed with The Usual Suspects.

Over to you folks, no definitive answers, just opinions. Fire away.

[rth_discos]

No Abba, Queen, Football songs, and Cheese were the salient ones forbidden.

While chatting with the venue staff beforehand, they were aghast that Abba were banned, giving the stereotypical view that The Swedes were compulsory at weddings. :D What really baffled them though was that while Cheese was banned, on the list were Livin' on a Prayer, Sex On Fire, and Mr Brightside, which they declared unanimously to be cheese. :daft:



"Cheese" is not a binary term.

It's very much a sliding scale - Agadoo and The Birdy song sits at a very different end of the cheese board to Livin' on a Prayer and Sex on Fire.

What I often do is work out where the "cheese line" comes in - once I know what their boundary is, the rest is typically easy.

Oh and Dancing Queen sits in the "more cheese" section than Livin' on a Prayer.

[Excalibur]

"Cheese" is not a binary term.

It's very much a sliding scale - Agadoo and The Birdy song sits at a very different end of the cheese board to Livin' on a Prayer and Sex on Fire.

What I often do is work out where the "cheese line" comes in - once I know what their boundary is, the rest is typically easy.

Oh and Dancing Queen sits in the "more cheese" section than Livin' on a Prayer.

I hear what you say/see what you type. It's actually something other people have remarked on, and I can see the logic. This assumes that you have all your music calibrated on that sliding scale. Birdie song and Agadoo are easy enough, but to use your examples, I wouldn't put Dancing Queen far away from Livin' On A Prayer.

The problem in my opinion is that some of us have a Celsius scale of Cheese, some Fahrenheit, and even some Kelvin. :daft:

[Imagine]

Oh and Dancing Queen sits in the "more cheese" section than Livin' on a Prayer.

Dancing Queen is NOT cheese! It's a "classic" and Abba are making a massive comeback at the moment (sorry - I was a fan club member growing up).

To be honest, since we "came back" after the lockdowns though, I'm finding cheese (both the very depths of the barrel I regret to add such as Oops Upside Your Head) and stuff like Brightside is very much on most playlists.

Do you know what, I really don't care so long as it fills my dance floor :beer1:

[Benny Smyth]

Dancing Queen is NOT cheese! It's a "classic" and Abba are making a massive comeback at the moment (sorry - I was a fan club member growing up).

That's a very generous description. :lol:

I'm starting to see Brightside lumped into the 'songs a client hears more often than most, so will describe it as cheese' category more frequently these days.

I came to the conclusion that the such free use of the word 'cheese' is the fault of a terrible DJ. There's a difference between playing a song because it works, and relying on a song because it works.

And I bet you the latter will account for 99% of the songs a client would call 'cheese'.

[Excalibur]

Morning Benny, good to see you here. All the best to you and yours.





I'm starting to see Brightside lumped into the 'songs a client hears more often than most, so will describe it as cheese' category more frequently these days.
Absolutely. While it's difficult to describe it as Cheese, it's definitely in the Anthem category next door, and definitely An Usual Suspect.



I came to the conclusion that the such free use of the word 'cheese' is the fault of a terrible DJ. There's a difference between playing a song because it works, and relying on a song because it works.
Terrible? Bit harsh, I feel. I'm not sure I understand what you've said there, but if I'm on the right lines, I might allow " lazy ". It's very easy just to start bashing out The Usual Suspects, because they're tried and tested. I've done it before, and I will again, I have no doubt.



And I bet you the latter will account for 99% of the songs a client would call 'cheese'.
And I definitely didn't understand that. :daft:

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I mean Dancing Queen is a cheese anthem.

Thankfully I'm not a cheesy DJ :D

[Excalibur]

Thankfully I'm not a cheesy DJ :D

Nah, just a cheesy punter. :p Shaun, where are those pics of Neil in Reflex, with flowers in his hair, drinking from a goldfish bowl? :whistle::Laugh:

[Nakatomi]

Do you know what, I really don't care so long as it fills my dance floor :beer1:

I used to say that. It was probably true 300 gigs ago but not so much now.

Despite my own opinions on what constitutes cheese I've always found the best reactions from crowds come from tunes they weren't expecting to hear. That's the mark of good DJing, being bold and/or knowledgeable enough to play them & put the usual suspects on the back burner. There are times the usual suspects are needed & go down exceedingly well, but I've not heard whoops of joy at punters recognising the opening bars of Mr Brightside in forever.

Watching a crowd 'dance' to songs with actions I think most look like they're just going through the motions, concentrating on getting the moves right. Is that.... Fun?

Party music has stagnated & the humble DJ has played a part, lazily wheeling out the same old same old every gig. For sure the guests have played a part too, but if you rely on pre requests or lists compiled from RSVPs you're bound to get little more than the usual suspects cropping up. Why? Because sat at home sober, most people are CRAP at picking music to dance to.

Dancing Queen is definitely cheese. So is Mr Brightside, Ike & Tina Turner's Proud Mary, Uptown Funk, Don't Stop Believin', Come on Eileen, Livin On A Prayer, I wanna Dance With Somebody, Town Called Malice, ronson & Winehouse Valerie., Sweet frickin Caroline... 500 miles... Don't Stop Me Now .. If it's in my top 20 most requested (and by association most played), it's cheese and should definitely be banned ! :devil:

As for Abba's resurgence, it won't last long. Most of their danceable songs are about dubious subject matter anyway.. An underage girl being a certain kind of tease? Is that really acceptable these days? I think not :lol:

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Nah, just a cheesy punter. :p Shaun, where are those pics of Neil in Reflex, with flowers in his hair, drinking from a goldfish bowl? :whistle::Laugh:

That my good friend....was peer pressure.......

and a few Pina coladas :D

[Excalibur]

I used to say that. It was probably true 300 gigs ago but not so much now.


Party music has stagnated & the humble DJ has played a part, lazily wheeling out the same old same old every gig.

Unusually deep thoughts from you there, Justin. I shall reply in kind and say that once upon a time, we were the instigators of new and exciting music, often slipping in things we'd found in odd places, and definitely educating punters.
The boot is now on the other foot, and guests have often had stuff on their phones for a week that we won't be legally allowed to play for another week. :( We are no longer the leaders, we're followers, playing catch up.

As for lazily playing the same old same old, well a lot of that is because we just don't get a lot of classic/danceable stuff to play with. How much chart music may well be requested, but never in a million years will it fill a dance floor. And that's before we get to the sweary rap stuff so beloved of the cool kids. ( And as you well know, somebody asks for Cha Cha Slide, and the floor's rammed ). ;)

[Nakatomi]

Unusually deep thoughts from you there, Justin. I shall reply in kind and say that once upon a time, we were the instigators of new and exciting music, often slipping in things we'd found in odd places, and definitely educating punters.
The boot is now on the other foot, and guests have often had stuff on their phones for a week that we won't be legally allowed to play for another week. :( We are no longer the leaders, we're followers, playing catch up.

As for lazily playing the same old same old, well a lot of that is because we just don't get a lot of classic/danceable stuff to play with. How much chart music may well be requested, but never in a million years will it fill a dance floor. And that's before we get to the sweary rap stuff so beloved of the cool kids. ( And as you well know, somebody asks for Cha Cha Slide, and the floor's rammed ). ;)

Me, I'll generally favour taking a really big punt on a track I think will fit. Is that bad? Last night would be one example where I got a request for a track I'd never knowingly heard of. I wanged it on after a requested slowy (Ed Sheeran & that darn opera singer murderer) & lo, it was a hit. So I followed it with Black Crowes Hard To Handle. It mixed, and was in the same key (!).. and went down even better than the request. I live for stuff like that. Pity there are so few opportunities to flex that way.

It's so ironic that the gigs where people are requesting the 'new cool stuff' are just people wanting to posture & look cool - proms are the perfect example of this - you can play all the sweary mumble crap in the tiktok charts & watch the crowd stare into their phones - yet bang on the party cheese & they lap it up like addicts getting their first hit in ages :lol:

It's also confusing (and funny) that the best left field requests actually come from the younger crowds. There wasn't much of this back in the day - but then we didn't have the kind of access to all music everyone does now beyond older siblings & parents' record collections. I'm thinking of the last 21sts I did where the tunes of the night were Buggles or Van Halen or Prince. You just couldn't make it up!

I reckon we should all try to be mould breakers. Fine, if uncle richardhead wants Come On Eileen next let him have it, but let's strive to wheel out something unexpected next. Go on, you can risk losing the floor. You know how to get them all back, right? Are you a skilled artist, or are you a painting by numbers kind of person?

You know that thing where a guest comes up to request a track & it turns out you've got it cued up to play next? You're being derivative & predictable. Change your tack.

The one thing that boils my wee about other DJs, and I see this a lot on DJ forums on Facebook is the sheer amount of people who say "I ALWAYS play track Y after track X". Stop doing that right now! Or don't :lol:

[Excalibur]

OK, since this thread is over twelve years old, and refuses to die, let's broaden it a bit. How much of the Anthems/Cheese do we wheel out as a matter of course?

Now I'm a fairly reactive kinda chap, and if I get an increasing number of requests for the cheeseboard, I'll gladly throw it at them. That often happens.

Increasingly nowadays for me, I'm using them more and more as a last resort. Over to you, folks.

[Imagine]

OK, since this thread is over twelve years old, and refuses to die, let's broaden it a bit. How much of the Anthems/Cheese do we wheel out as a matter of course?

Now I'm a fairly reactive kinda chap, and if I get an increasing number of requests for the cheeseboard, I'll gladly throw it at them. That often happens.

Increasingly nowadays for me, I'm using them more and more as a last resort. Over to you, folks.

As little as I possibly can if I can help it. And it's very rare indeed to go into things like the Macarena and the like (says he that's just spotted that, Oops Upside and the Birdie Dance on a playlist for a couple of weeks' time :( )

I've found since the lockdowns, things like Livin' on a Prayer and Summer of '69 have very unpredictable results. Sweet Caroline - I veer towards DJ Otzi's version because it's more upbeat and has the "so good, so good" chants in it that everyone sings anyway - in my part of the world it seems to be a pretty certain floor filler. Chelsea Dagger and Tubthumpin' also seem to be massive here are the moment.

Brightside is sadly still on most playlists, as are Ike & Tina and Whitney.

I'm in a real happy zone musically at most weddings lately. Most of my couples are early to mid 30's so the music is mainly late 90s/early 2000s stuff. Strangely though I'm also doing a heck of a lot of the 70s disco anthems as well (don't know whether that's because the likes of Purple Disco Machine and Block and Crown are bringing these tracks back). The 80's (the source of soooo much cheesey goodness) with the exception of A-ha and Whitney seem to have been erased from the planet.

One anthem that seems to be appearing at every single wedding at the moment and I don't know why (must have been on the telly or something) is Gala, Freed from Desire. It was never a favourite of mine when it came out and before this year it hardly saw the light of day in my sets, but it seems to be getting requested constantly these days and with the dance floor exploding into song every time.