Damaged caused by other companies

[spin mobile disco]

Ok not sure where to out this so I think mobile disco should be best fit. As this is an ongoing legal case now I will keep the names of comapneies etc out of it but this is what happened yesterday :(

I had a gig at a well known local venue for 2 days in a row. Had a great first night on friday good atmosphere etc.
Was going to take my gear with me but venue said room would be sealed and was welcome to leave gear there. I decided on a compromise and left my deckstand with lighting and cabling in place and took sound system etc with me. As the lighting is all dmx'd this woudl save me a lot of time next night as we were a bit short on setup time next day.

I arrived back saturday to notice somethign straight away my decks stand was leaning badly on one side. Now its one of the good giraffe (now discontinued ) with tri truss and is very sturdy I have had drunks thrown against it in the past with no problems other than my consternation.
As the guests where now in the room and sitting to dinner I had to inspect it carefully to see what had happened. The crossbeams that support the stand and the vertical beams that support the overhead bar had all been twisted out of shape. Now I have 2 of these stands and know how strong they are made out of 2" x 1" steel boxsection. It became obvious what had happened.

A company had come in (without asking the venue first as well) and had installed starcloth lining to the marquee. They had dragged my deckstand accross the floor of the marquee (damaging the carpet as well venue are not amused) As the stand had 2 martin acrobats ( 15 kilos each ) 2 impossibleds (6 kilos each) 1 ledj mega panel ( 8 kilos) 2 laser ( combined 10 kilos) and a bubble machine ( about 5 kilos) it was pretty obvious even to a moron that it was designed to be imobile when set. Apparantly morons are an overstatment to the comapny involved.
My starcloth hanging on the front of the stand was covered in bubble fluid from the machine the cable on the back had been yanked out without unscrewing first and my dmx cables had been pulled from the lighting on the truss.
Venue was horrified as was the bride and groom luckily venue had a toolkit and using some of my spare parts Icarry and some nifty work hammering back to shape and then lightening load on the bar I was able to continue the night on time.

Now I am obviously trying to contact the company to get a replacement to the damaged equipment as I have photographic evidance of the damage as well as 6 statments from different staff as to what the damage was and that they had seen it undamaged previous night when left and another member of staff who confirms she say them drag it to the centre of the room from it location. No attempt was made to contact venue or myself first ( all my equipment has my name and contact number on it) or to tell me of the damage to the equpiment after it was done.
I would love to name and shame i really would but will attempt peacful resolution first.


I was very upset and was sorely tempted to go for my usual retrobution but luckily venue calmed me down ( thanks venue really nice staff) and I got on with fixing it best i could for the brides sake.
but really omg seriously.

Discuss

[spin mobile disco]

couple of pics of the damage due to it being mild steel even though I bent it back into shape it will now nolonger be as strong as it was so will have to replace.

[Ajaysdisco]

Sorry to hear about your problems.

You could try trading standards for advice.

[CRAZY K]

Ok not sure where to out this so I think mobile disco should be best fit. As this is an ongoing legal case now I will keep the names of comapneies etc out of it but this is what happened yesterday :(

I had a gig at a well known local venue for 2 days in a row. Had a great first night on friday good atmosphere etc.
Was going to take my gear with me but venue said room would be sealed and was welcome to leave gear there. I decided on a compromise and left my deckstand with lighting and cabling in place and took sound system etc with me. As the lighting is all dmx'd this woudl save me a lot of time next night as we were a bit short on setup time next day.

I arrived back saturday to notice somethign straight away my decks stand was leaning badly on one side. Now its one of the good giraffe (now discontinued ) with tri truss and is very sturdy I have had drunks thrown against it in the past with no problems other than my consternation.
As the guests where now in the room and sitting to dinner I had to inspect it carefully to see what had happened. The crossbeams that support the stand and the vertical beams that support the overhead bar had all been twisted out of shape. Now I have 2 of these stands and know how strong they are made out of 2" x 1" steel boxsection. It became obvious what had happened.

A company had come in (without asking the venue first as well) and had installed starcloth lining to the marquee. They had dragged my deckstand accross the floor of the marquee (damaging the carpet as well venue are not amused) As the stand had 2 martin acrobats ( 15 kilos each ) 2 impossibleds (6 kilos each) 1 ledj mega panel ( 8 kilos) 2 laser ( combined 10 kilos) and a bubble machine ( about 5 kilos) it was pretty obvious even to a moron that it was designed to be imobile when set. Apparantly morons are an overstatment to the comapny involved.
My starcloth hanging on the front of the stand was covered in bubble fluid from the machine the cable on the back had been yanked out without unscrewing first and my dmx cables had been pulled from the lighting on the truss.
Venue was horrified as was the bride and groom luckily venue had a toolkit and using some of my spare parts Icarry and some nifty work hammering back to shape and then lightening load on the bar I was able to continue the night on time.

Now I am obviously trying to contact the company to get a replacement to the damaged equipment as I have photographic evidance of the damage as well as 6 statments from different staff as to what the damage was and that they had seen it undamaged previous night when left and another member of staff who confirms she say them drag it to the centre of the room from it location. No attempt was made to contact venue or myself first ( all my equipment has my name and contact number on it) or to tell me of the damage to the equpiment after it was done.
I would love to name and shame i really would but will attempt peacful resolution first.


I was very upset and was sorely tempted to go for my usual retrobution but luckily venue calmed me down ( thanks venue really nice staff) and I got on with fixing it best i could for the brides sake.
but really omg seriously.

Discuss

Hiya Matt, sorry to hear this, legally Angela will know more BUT I think as you left your stuff on the premises of the Venue I would suggest your claim is against the venue FIRST.

In addition they have verbally assured you your kit was safe to be left and that was wrong.

They have failed in their duty to safeguard your kit UNLESS you have a written agreement with the venue which excludes such damage.

If a guest is injured by you during a Disco I imagine the claim FIRSTLY goes to the venue, then passed to you, so you are in the same position.

Anyway if you have legal action going on then the organisation will know what to do, do you have insurance cover perhaps to claim on in the meantime while you wait to get compensated. presumably the stand will need replacing.

[Larry B Entertainment]

Anyway if you have legal action going on then the organisation will know what to do, do you have insurance cover perhaps to claim on in the meantime while you wait to get compensated. presumably the stand will need replacing.

The problem is the insurance company might not be interested as in their eyes the gear was left unattended, regardless of a verbal contract.

[CRAZY K]

The problem is the insurance company might not be interested as in their eyes the gear was left unattended, regardless of a verbal contract.

Depends on what the Insurance clause says--you cant have everything attended 24/7 AND that exclusion is usually for theft claims not involving violent and forcible entry--- where you leave your CD collection in a Hotel Foyer for 2 minutes and someone nicks it while your back is turned.:eek:

[JTRS]

Whilst waiting for Angela to give her input, in my opinion, the venue offered to let you leave your equipment on their premises and you accepted that offer. Unless the venue specifically told you that equipment left would be covered by them in case of loss or damage then I doubt you have a claim against them. The only thing I can think hat you could claim against them would be negligence, (which is a tort), but in order to establish negligence you would have to show that they accepted liabilty for the safe storage of equipment.

You stated that the company came in without the knowledge of the hotel, that to me suggests that the company installing the equipment were acting without authority from the owners of the property.

From your OP and the pictures it is clear that the equipment was subjected to some pretty rough treatment, so the person who moved it clearly did not exercise reasonable care in doing so, accordingly therefore you would potentially have a claim against them, but it would come down to one persons word against another, you would state the equipment was not damaged, they would probably claim they left it as they found it, and in the absence of other evidence (CCTV) etc you would find it hard to establish the burden of proof required to win.

I'm sorry that this isn't what you wanted to hear, but it's only my opinion, which may well be contrdicted by Angela or someone else who has had a similiar experience.

JTRS

I've had a few further thoughts on this but couldn't edit them into the earlier posting I made, again these are my own opinions and I'm posting them for discussion.

The venue did state that the room would be sealed, the fact that someone got into the room appears to contradict that, the implication of a sealed room is obviously one of safety, however, unless a venue specifically agrees to accept responsibility for loss or damage to equipment left there, then you would have no claim against them directly.

A salient point appears to be 'who authorised the other company to install the starcloth lining', if it was the venue then technically they were authorised by the venue to have access and to carry out work, if it was someone else (eg the host) then it's an even bigger can of worms.

I'm still of the opinion that whoever it was that caused the damage will deny it and claim it was left as found, and you will have an uphill battle proving otherwise.

JTRS

[Corabar Entertainment]

I'm afraid that I agree with what's already been said. :(

If the venue did say your gear would be safe and that the room would be sealed, and this was said in front of witnesses or you can get them to admit that, then you might have something there. (Begs the question, how did the contractors get in there in the first place!)

You also mention that you have a witness to the fact that they dragged the kit across the floor. Is that witness willing to swear to that? That could also be your saving grace.

Being more practical rather that theoretical (as I tend to be when it comes to legal matters), if I were you, I would contact your insurance company in the first instance and have a chat with them. They may (and I do stress the 'may' part here - but maybe some of our insurance experts could expound further) be willing to pay out on a claim based upon your evidence and pursue a claim themselves against the venue / contractor (as they see fit). Obviously, this would save you the time, trouble, and expense of going the legal route yourself :)

Good Luck Matt! :luck: ...and keep us posted.

PS: Simon.... remind me at BPM to chat to you about that matter we were discussing the other week (cancellation fees).... I disagree with you on that one :p

[Twinspin]

Sorry to hear about what happened im not sure who you use for an insurer but

http://www.musicguard.co.uk/documents/2010/Fortis/MusicSelectPolicySummary.pdf

this is a policy document from musicguard if its any help?

[JTRS]

PS: Simon.... remind me at BPM to chat to you about that matter we were discussing the other week (cancellation fees).... I disagree with you on that one :p

I sure will, how about a full blown discussion over a :beer1: or 3?

JTRS

[Corabar Entertainment]

Make it 4 and you're on! :lol:

[JTRS]

Make it 4 and you're on! :lol:

That will be an under the table discussion then, I'm a lightweight when it comes to alcohol!

:daft: :daft: :daft:

JTRS

[Corabar Entertainment]

It's a long day and evening!

Anyway... we're derailing Matt's thread here (completely my fault, I started it), so :sorry: Matt and...

:ontopic:

[CRAZY K]

Whilst waiting for Angela to give her input, in my opinion, the venue offered to let you leave your equipment on their premises and you accepted that offer. Unless the venue specifically told you that equipment left would be covered by them in case of loss or damage then I doubt you have a claim against them. The only thing I can think hat you could claim against them would be negligence, (which is a tort), but in order to establish negligence you would have to show that they accepted liabilty for the safe storage of equipment.

You stated that the company came in without the knowledge of the hotel, that to me suggests that the company installing the equipment were acting without authority from the owners of the property.

From your OP and the pictures it is clear that the equipment was subjected to some pretty rough treatment, so the person who moved it clearly did not exercise reasonable care in doing so, accordingly therefore you would potentially have a claim against them, but it would come down to one persons word against another, you would state the equipment was not damaged, they would probably claim they left it as they found it, and in the absence of other evidence (CCTV) etc you would find it hard to establish the burden of proof required to win.

I'm sorry that this isn't what you wanted to hear, but it's only my opinion, which may well be contrdicted by Angela or someone else who has had a similiar experience.

JTRS

As I said UNLESS the Hotel have a Contractual exclusion with Matt-- they invited Matt to leave his stuff IN THEIR CARE AND CUSTODY--the staff did not say you leave this at your own risk sign here.:confused:

They failed to safeguard his equipment.

Also the staff WITNESSED THE INCIDENT and did nothing to challenge the morons.:eek:

I agree its not exactly a solid case but there must be some mileage in it surely:confused: .

What did your legal people say Matt?

[JTRS]

OK back to topic (my apologies too for the derailment but I was led astray)

I'd agree that if your insurers cover the damage then the easiest course of action you have is to claim against them and leave them to pursue whoever they think might reimburse them, that way you get paid out faster and they will have more resources than you to pursue someone.

However, the caveat to that would of course be that they cover your equipment when left unattended, a usual clause would be that you take all reasonable precautions to ensure its safety and you could well argue that the venue told you the room was going to be secure and sealed.

The reason I mentioned that negligence was a tort earlier is because that closes the argument about a direct contract having to be in place, in other words you do not have to have a contract with the negligent person in order to claim against them (I could mention decomposing snails and opaque bottles of ginger beer here :) )

JTRS


As I said UNLESS the Hotel have a Contractual exclusion with Matt-- they invited Matt to leave his stuff IN THEIR CARE AND CUSTODY--the staff did not say you leave this at your own risk sign here.:confused:

They failed to safeguard his equipment.

Also the staff WITNESSED THE INCIDENT and did nothing to challenge the morons.:eek:

I agree its not exactly a solid case but there must be some mileage in it surely:confused: .

What did your legal people say Matt?

I'd suggest it's the other way around, unless the hotel specifically agrees to accept liability for any loss or damage then all they were doing was offering a facility for storage, and not in 'their care and custody'

For that, Matt would need a contractual inclusion, the reason for that would be that safe storage (which accepts a liability for loss or damage) would be a service that one would reasonably expect to pay for, since no charge was made the venue would probably argue it was not their responsibility.

Furthermore, it is reasonable to expect the owner of the property involved to make their own enquiries regarding liability before agreeing to leave equipment, so unless Matt specifically asked if they were accepting liability whilst the equipment was left there then I don't see how you can expect that to be inherent in the offer to allow Matt to leave his gear there.

Suppose you come to my house in your car and we agree to go out for a beer, I suggest you leave your car on my drive or in my garage because it's safe, you do that, we go get a beer and when we return your car has been stolen, broken into or vandalised. Are you saying that I am responsible for your loss because I suggested that you leave your car on my property?

JTRS

[spin mobile disco]

My own insurance would cover me for the fact that it was in a secure room. The room was secure apparantly until the morning when it was opened by a member of staff for cleaning (or some such) the marquee company would have had to have pli ( I hope ) and as they caused damage to the equipment their insurance would be liable to be paid out due to their negligance.
The member of staff has already promised to swear seeing them move the equipment, which was not even in the way without asking permission. However she was unaware that the equipment was not theirs so did not intervene.

I think it comes down to culpabilty here. They were not authorised to touch the equipment , they had no need to touch the equpment, and they damaged the equipment while working for their company.
The companies employees caused damage they company is liable.
If you took your car to a garage and they broke it by accident they would repair it at their cost. If you paid an electrician to repair your lights at home and he broke all your windows due to him not doing his job correctly you would claim on his pli. This is no different surely.

[Charlie Brown]

I can't offer legal advice on this but I can wish you luck and hope that you sort it out for the best. :beer1:

[JTRS]

My own insurance would cover me for the fact that it was in a secure room. The room was secure apparantly until the morning when it was opened by a member of staff for cleaning (or some such) the marquee company would have had to have pli ( I hope ) and as they caused damage to the equipment their insurance would be liable to be paid out due to their negligance.
The member of staff has already promised to swear seeing them move the equipment, which was not even in the way without asking permission. However she was unaware that the equipment was not theirs so did not intervene.

I think it comes down to culpabilty here. They were not authorised to touch the equipment , they had no need to touch the equpment, and they damaged the equipment while working for their company.
The companies employees caused damage they company is liable.
If you took your car to a garage and they broke it by accident they would repair it at their cost. If you paid an electrician to repair your lights at home and he broke all your windows due to him not doing his job correctly you would claim on his pli. This is no different surely.

OK to play devils advocate

If I was the person who moved the Matt's gear I would state in my defence that I did exercise reasonable care and whilst I accept I did drag it I did not cause the damage suggested, and I left it as found.

Matt still has the problem of proving that the equipment was perfect when left.

I do agree though that any claim made should be against the company that were installing the starcloth and not the venue.

JTRS

[CRAZY K]

;)
I'd suggest it's the other way around, unless the hotel specifically agrees to accept liability for any loss or damage then all they were doing was offering a facility for storage, and not in 'their care and custody'

For that, Matt would need a contractual inclusion, the reason for that would be that safe storage (which accepts a liability for loss or damage) would be a service that one would reasonably expect to pay for, since no charge was made the venue would probably argue it was not their responsibility.

Furthermore, it is reasonable to expect the owner of the property involved to make their own enquiries regarding liability before agreeing to leave equipment, so unless Matt specifically asked if they were accepting liability whilst the equipment was left there then I don't see how you can expect that to be inherent in the offer to allow Matt to leave his gear there.

Suppose you come to my house in your car and we agree to go out for a beer, I suggest you leave your car on my drive or in my garage because it's safe, you do that, we go get a beer and when we return your car has been stolen, broken into or vandalised. Are you saying that I am responsible for your loss because I suggested that you leave your car on my property?

JTRS

Well I will be interested to hear what Matts Legal people say.

I dont see your example as similar.

I agree you have to show Negligence.

Allowing third parties unathourised access to start wrenching his equipment around damaging it while staff looked on and did nothing--how does that grab you as negligence by employees of the Hotel.

Sounds pretty negligent to me--

Anyway lets see what the Legal people say to Matt--;)

[JTRS]

;)

Well I will be interested to hear what Matts Legal people say.

I dont see your example as similar.

I agree you have to show Negligence.

Allowing third parties unathourised access to start wrenching his equipment around damaging it while staff looked on and did nothing--how does that grab you as negligence by employees of the Hotel.

Sounds pretty negligent to me--

Anyway lets see what the Legal people say to Matt--;)

I'm sorry i'm confused now

If it was unauthorised access how is that negligence on behalf of the venue staff

And even if the staff witnessed equipment been moved or dragged and it was not apparent that it was causing damage then looking on and doing nothing would be entirely reasonable. I don't see how you can assume that just because someone is dragging something heavy that they are automatically causing damage, and furthermore if the hotel staff were aware that the equipment was not theirs (as would be the case with disco equipment) then it would be logical to assume that the person moving the equipment owned it, especially if that company (or person) was installing something like starcloth.

That's how your argument grabs me for showing negligence against the venue staff, my example of the car was simply to illustrate the point that just because someone suggests that you leave something somewhere does not by implication suggest that they are responsible for it.

JTRS

[JTRS]

A company had come in (without asking the venue first as well) and had installed starcloth lining to the marquee. They had dragged my deckstand accross the floor of the marquee (damaging the carpet as well venue are not amused)
Discuss

That may well work in your favour

Are the venue persuing a claim against the company that installed the starcloth for the damage to their carpet?

If so, and if they are successful then your case against the starcloth company stands a better chance.

JTRS

[spin mobile disco]

It is my understanding that the venue is also seeking damages from the company as well. Please note at no point am I blaming the venue they have bent over backwards to find out what happened and were themselves very upset when it became apparent who was to blame.
Also on a side note when leaving equipment at venues I always take pictures of it before I leave for exactly this kind of problem. These pictures clearly show my equipment intact and time stamped for the previous evenings. They also show the location of my equipment in the room had been altered and venue staff have confirmed that the equipment was dragged fully laden with lighting equipment on. No person in our industry would attempt to move on their own a top heavy lighting rig that weights more than they do that they themselves do not know the structural capabilities of. This is not a deck stand with wheels it is a 6 ft bass with starcloth fitted completely wired including mains, dmx, and controllers. With 3meters or steel tri truss over the top at a Hightower just under 2.8 meters high.
That they did the damage can be proved. The time the damage occurred can be proved, that they dragged it can be proved ( huge lines in the carpet from location to location Plus a witness. The real thing I think is getting them to face up to it and then dealing with it. Venue have offered all assistance they can in resolving this.

I think my big issue other than damage was caused is that persons who should have known better I.e a marquee company who install lighting and similar should have known better, or if in doubt should have asked the venue staff. And if they had moved it should have thought to themselves hmmm this is very heavy it's at least a two man lift. Which if they had done it end to end would not have caused this damage. The only way this damage can be cause is if someone not only lifted one end but attempted to twist it from one side while lifting it. A sure sign of someone trying to move it on their own then trying to keep it's balance when the lighting would have shifted. Let's face it I like many others use g clamps with safety wires and while these will hold things fine vertically they will move if shifted horizontally.

The stand was leaning very heavily to one side when I found it and anyone who stands upright could see this . So they must have noticed what they had done and chosen to do nothing about

Anyway rant over I will know more tomorrow with any luck they will be presented with our evidence and simply apologise and offer their insurance details or replacement.

[TonyB]

Anyway rant over I will know more tomorrow with any luck they will be presented with our evidence and simply apologise and offer their insurance details or replacement.

I doubt that they will do that. Under the terms of their insurance, they cannot admit liability. What you will have to do is get an itemised costing and send to them together with supporting evidence and give them 14 days to pay or you will commence legal proceedings. If you don't have a solicitor representing you or make legal threats, the insurers will just give you the runaround and you will get nowhere.

Before making any contact yourself, check the position with your own insurers as although it was left unattended, it may still be covered for accidental damage. If you start to deal with it yourself where insurance may cover it, the insurers may not want to get involved at a later stage as they may consider what you have done will prejudice their position.

[CRAZY K]

I doubt that they will do that. Under the terms of their insurance, they cannot admit liability. What you will have to do is get an itemised costing and send to them together with supporting evidence and give them 14 days to pay or you will commence legal proceedings. If you don't have a solicitor representing you or make legal threats, the insurers will just give you the runaround and you will get nowhere.
Before making any contact yourself, check the position with your own insurers as although it was left unattended, it may still be covered for accidental damage. If you start to deal with it yourself where insurance may cover it, the insurers may not want to get involved at a later stage as they may consider what you have done will prejudice their position.

Completely agree--although I still wonder if the Hotel are liable Tony--whats your view ?

Agreed better to claim on your own cover as I suggested earlier and let the heavweight people at the Insurance Legal team go after whoever they can!!!

You will have however to pay an excess.:eek: and try to claim that back as well;)

I think if the Hotel allow an unathorised entry they have failed to have a proper security system in place and are therefore by inference and definition failing in their duty to properly protect property in their custody, same as not having a working lock on the door to a room and there is a theft .;)

Anyway I wait to hear what the legal people say--its just my view

[Gareth]

From an insurance point of view, the wording of the policy is really going to be key. I am sat here with several million policy booklets (slight exaguration) and the wordings vary dramatically. For example:

'Loss or physical damage within the British Isles and while temporarily elsewhere in the custody or control of the insured.'

'You are not insured for the loss or damage to any property that is not in the care of you' (You being defined as the insured.)

These two are from different policies and can be applied in several different ways on a claim. My intial feeling (without seeing any policy) is that you are going to find it difficult to claim from your insurance.

[spin mobile disco]

Ok finally an update on this sorry it took so long.
Other party has reluctanly agreed to pay half towards a new deckstand as his staff broke my one. So as I had a wedding faye coming up this weekend I have gone out and bought myself and Ultimax 1.7 with single overhead bar. As my old stand was valued at £190 he is paying £80 + vat to cover his half. And to save a long drawn out battle I decided to cut my losses and accept.

Luckily when I left my equipment I took a photo of it just incase. Really glad I did and if anyone else is ever leaving gear at a venue take a quick pic. Without mine I would have got no where.

So as some of you noticed from my other threads popping up it arrived today and I have started the process of moding it to fit both my needs and my show. Got to say you dont realise how much work you put inti something until you have to replace it.
Having to make new brackets for hanging start cloth at right hight. Adapters to fit my tri truss to the stand. Replacing nuts and bots on the ultimax with fast locking pins on the uprights. All the things you take for granted when they are working now have to be done. On a bit of a countdown as well with a wedding fayre this weekend and it must be ready and at its best in time.

A couple of quick questions for any ultimax users on here, do you use something to protect the crossbar threads in transit or leave as is? Is it worth replacing the split 2 part poles with single length as I find them a bit loose. And how to you transport yours (please note bag thread already ongoing) if you do not use a bag?
Thanks in advance.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

I leave the knobs on :)

Dont know about the split poles, i went for the one peice jobbys, and dont bother with a bag. Its just loose, but the odd scrape doesnt matter because its not seen

[Vectis]

Never put the knobs on, and never had an issue with the exposed ends. They're VERY tough.

Split poles aren't at all flimsy when there's a load up there as gravity works in your favour.

Always kept my bars and poles in an old giraffe bag.

[mark@pegasus]

Same as Dynamic I leave the knobs on.

[Corabar Steve]

We used to leave them on. 3 sets later we don't (apart from the micro stand & that stays assembled).

[spin mobile disco]

Any reason Steve? breakage, loss? Im mroe worried about the thread being damaged or damaging others property during transit than losing the nuts but obviously thought I woudl ask others for wisdom gleaned without having to go through the long trial and error process.

[DazzyD]

Glad you got it sorted, Matt. Well, at least came to an agreement that (somewhat) suited both parties.


Sorry to hear about your problems.

You could try trading standards for advice.

Trading Standards wouldn't have got involved with something like this. It's a one-off minor claim against a company for what would be termed "slight" damage. They probably wouldn't even give advice other than this is a case for the small claims court.

[CRAZY K]

Glad you got it sorted, Matt. Well, at least came to an agreement that (somewhat) suited both parties.



Trading Standards wouldn't have got involved with something like this. It's a one-off minor claim against a company for what would be termed "slight" damage. They probably wouldn't even give advice other than this is a case for the small claims court.

I think Trading Standards is more about Consumer Protection and Defective Goods or Services--not this kind of thing.:confused:

[simon1969]

Great news did you get an explanation as to why they were so careless with your gear though?

[Corabar Steve]

Any reason Steve? breakage, loss? Im mroe worried about the thread being damaged or damaging others property during transit than losing the nuts but obviously thought I woudl ask others for wisdom gleaned without having to go through the long trial and error process.
Smashed knobs

[Excalibur]

Smashed knobs

Three replies to that.
1) Ooooh, Matron! :eek: :eek:
2) Your staff must be eexceedingly rough.
3) 10mm wingnuts. http://www.screwfix.com/prods/17272/Bolts/Nuts/M10-Wing-Nut

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Smashed knobs

:eek: :D

[DazzyD]

I think Trading Standards is more about Consumer Protection and Defective Goods or Services--not this kind of thing.:confused:

Which is exactly why I said TS wouldn't get involved in this!