Just wish the customer would be honest

[soundmaster mobile disco]

I contacted a lady today to ask if everything was still ok for next saturday.It was her daughters 10th birthday party.I have had this booking for a fortnight now.

Her reply was ................sorry but we could not get the hall for the time we wanted so we had to cancel.A quick call to the venue told me the party was going ahead from 2-4pm and that it had been paid for.

It would not bother me so much if the customer was honest with me and say we got a cheaperdj but thanks for your quote.I am now going to invoice them a cancellation fee as my t&c state.

[Corabar Entertainment]

...a cheaperdj but thanks for your quote.I am now going to invoice them a cancellation fee as my t&c state.So the client had already given you a signed contract and paid a deposit? :eek:

[soundmaster mobile disco]

Signed contract but no depodit as it was a late booking plus it was for a small ammount.

There are lessons to be leared from this i think!

Still got my evening booking to look forward to

[Corabar Entertainment]

Methinks you may end up in the small claims court if you decide to take this one further :(

[Vectis]

Methinks you may end up in the small claims court if you decide to take this one further :(

:agree:

Moneyclaim would do nicely though, and for the £30 or £40 fee (can't remember) it'd be worth it :evelgrin:

[CRAZY K]

I contacted a lady today to ask if everything was still ok for next saturday.It was her daughters 10th birthday party.I have had this booking for a fortnight now.

Her reply was ................sorry but we could not get the hall for the time we wanted so we had to cancel.A quick call to the venue told me the party was going ahead from 2-4pm and that it had been paid for.

It would not bother me so much if the customer was honest with me and say we got a cheaperdj but thanks for your quote.I am now going to invoice them a cancellation fee as my t&c state.

Would not a NRBF have been the answer?

Non refundable booking fee upfront;)

[DJ James Lake]

:agree:

Moneyclaim would do nicely though, and for the £30 or £40 fee (can't remember) it'd be worth it :evelgrin:

I use this company and they have never failed yet. £2 to send a letter which always works without having to go further

http://www.thomas-higgins.co.uk/

[Wayno]

They only do business to business debts though.

[soundmaster mobile disco]

To be honest i am only looking at a cost of £95.Not sure if its worth all the hastle to chase it up.I can only send my invoice plus a copy of the signed booking form,and explain to them.

[JTRS]

Contract law is a bit of a minefield, your best bet is that the customer pays your cancellation fee without argument, because, from a legal standpoint I don't hold up much hope that you would win if it went to Court and she had proper legal advice, let me explain why.....

Your terms and conditions may well state you have a cancellation fee of XX pounds, but, those terms and conditions are only legally enforceable when you have a contract. A contract is NOT ESTABLISHED until consideration is present, consideration is legally defined as 'the price that each party pays for the promise of the other', (consideration must have a value that is quantifiable), in other words you agreed to DJ her party (therefore consideration was present on your side), but unless she paid you a deposit (be it 50p or £50) then consideration was not present on her side, therefore you DID NOT have a contract, and accordingly your terms and conditions are not therefore enforceable.

The best example I ever heard to explain consideration was this....

Two men in a pub, one offers to mow the other persons lawn, the offer is accepted but the man doesn't show to mow the lawn. Can the owner of the lawn sue the other party for breach of contract?, answer NO he cannot (well ok he can sue him but he won't win)

However, two men in a pub, one man offers to mow the other persons lawn, the offer is accepted and the owner of the lawn buys the person making the offer a pint of beer, as he gives the beer he makes it clear that it was bought because of the offer to mow the lawn. The man accepts the beer but then doesn't show to mow the lawn. Can the owner of the lawn sue the other party for breach of contract?, answer is YES he can and yes he will win.

The difference is that something of monetary value was exchanged, the promise to mow the lawn on one side and the beer on the other side. Consideration is present on both sides.

If such a silly case went to Court the owner of the lawn is restricted as to what he can sue for under breach of contract, he cannot apply anything punitive and can only expect to be put in the position he would have been in if the grass had been cut, so he could ask for an order of specific performance where the other person is forced to mow the lawn, or he could ask someone else to do it (at a fair market rate) and then ask for that money back.

I know this has been a bit of a long post (apologies for that), but the important thing to note is that a deposit from the customer is extremely important in cases where you want to enforce your terms and conditions.

JTRS

[1st Choice Karaoke]

What a great explanation there JTRS, I learnt something there! Nice one!

[Corabar Entertainment]

Sorry to disagree with your interpretation again Simon, but the actual passing on consideration is not necessarily required: deferred payment (ie promise to pay) is often more than sufficient :)

[CRAZY K]

Contract law is a bit of a minefield, your best bet is that the customer pays your cancellation fee without argument, because, from a legal standpoint I don't hold up much hope that you would win if it went to Court and she had proper legal advice, let me explain why.....

Your terms and conditions may well state you have a cancellation fee of XX pounds, but, those terms and conditions are only legally enforceable when you have a contract. A contract is NOT ESTABLISHED until consideration is present, consideration is legally defined as 'the price that each party pays for the promise of the other', (consideration must have a value that is quantifiable), in other words you agreed to DJ her party (therefore consideration was present on your side), but unless she paid you a deposit (be it 50p or £50) then consideration was not present on her side, therefore you DID NOT have a contract, and accordingly your terms and conditions are not therefore enforceable.

The best example I ever heard to explain consideration was this....

Two men in a pub, one offers to mow the other persons lawn, the offer is accepted but the man doesn't show to mow the lawn. Can the owner of the lawn sue the other party for breach of contract?, answer NO he cannot (well ok he can sue him but he won't win)

However, two men in a pub, one man offers to mow the other persons lawn, the offer is accepted and the owner of the lawn buys the person making the offer a pint of beer, as he gives the beer he makes it clear that it was bought because of the offer to mow the lawn. The man accepts the beer but then doesn't show to mow the lawn. Can the owner of the lawn sue the other party for breach of contract?, answer is YES he can and yes he will win.

The difference is that something of monetary value was exchanged, the promise to mow the lawn on one side and the beer on the other side. Consideration is present on both sides.

If such a silly case went to Court the owner of the lawn is restricted as to what he can sue for under breach of contract, he cannot apply anything punitive and can only expect to be put in the position he would have been in if the grass had been cut, so he could ask for an order of specific performance where the other person is forced to mow the lawn, or he could ask someone else to do it (at a fair market rate) and then ask for that money back.

I know this has been a bit of a long post (apologies for that), but the important thing to note is that a deposit from the customer is extremely important in cases where you want to enforce your terms and conditions.

JTRS

I dont get this--a signed Contract by the client agreeing to go ahead and pay a sum of money for a service is NOT a Contract?

So how do you explain verbal contracts are enforceable in Law where clearly deposits would not be taken?

Very confused and dont believe a word of it from Northamptonshire

[JTRS]

Sorry to disagree with your interpretation again Simon, but the actual passing on consideration is not necessarily required: deferred payment (ie promise to pay) is often more than sufficient :)

Yes I agree with your point Angela, a deferred payment (ie a promise to pay) is sufficient, so if you have a signed acceptance from the customer that promises to pay then you have consideration and you would win in Court.

I perhaps over simplified my earlier post because I didn't think the OP had such a promise and was more trying to explain in simple terms how important deposits are.

JTRS

[JTRS]

I dont get this--a signed Contract by the client agreeing to go ahead and pay a sum of money for a service is NOT a Contract?

So how do you explain verbal contracts are enforceable in Law where clearly deposits would not be taken?

Very confused and dont believe a word of it from Northamptonshire

I thought my 'mow the lawn' example clearly explained that a verbal contract (because it was obviously a verbal contract) was enforceable, the point still stands that unless consideration is present then the contract is not established.

If you are confused and don't know what to believe try googling 'Contract Law and Consideration'

JTRS

[Corabar Entertainment]

Yes I agree with your point Angela, a deferred payment (ie a promise to pay) is sufficient, so if you have a signed acceptance from the customer that promises to pay then you have consideration and you would win in Court.

JTRSBingo! ;) ;)

[JTRS]

Bingo! ;) ;)

Oh very good :clap: :clap: :clap:

JTRS

[Corabar Entertainment]

Couldn't resist! :D

[JTRS]

Couldn't resist! :D

I heard that about you :coat:

JTRS

[Corabar Entertainment]

Thought you had a quiz night to go to? :p

:ontopic:

[JTRS]

:sorry:


I'm off to run my quiz now

:coat:


JTRS

[simon1969]

Sorry to disagree with your interpretation again Simon, but the actual passing on consideration is not necessarily required: deferred payment (ie promise to pay) is often more than sufficient :)

Oh didn't know that sorry Angela, but you obviously know about law than myself.
Personally I would prefer payment + signed contract as I don't trust that sort of situation if you know what I mean.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Oh didn't know that sorry Angela, but you obviously know about law than myself.
Personally I would prefer payment + signed contract as I don't trust that sort of situation if you know what I mean.Sorry for causing confusion Simon (livewire), but

Sorry to disagree with your interpretation again Simon, but the actual passing on consideration is not necessarily required: deferred payment (ie promise to pay) is often more than sufficient :)was directed at Simon (JTRS) in response to...

Contract law is a bit of a minefield, your best bet is that the customer pays your cancellation fee without argument, because, from a legal standpoint I don't hold up much hope that you would win if it went to Court and she had proper legal advice, let me explain why.....

Your terms and conditions may well state you have a cancellation fee of XX pounds, but, those terms and conditions are only legally enforceable when you have a contract. A contract is NOT ESTABLISHED until consideration is present, consideration is legally defined as 'the price that each party pays for the promise of the other', (consideration must have a value that is quantifiable), in other words you agreed to DJ her party (therefore consideration was present on your side), but unless she paid you a deposit (be it 50p or £50) then consideration was not present on her side, therefore you DID NOT have a contract, and accordingly your terms and conditions are not therefore enforceable.

The best example I ever heard to explain consideration was this....

Two men in a pub, one offers to mow the other persons lawn, the offer is accepted but the man doesn't show to mow the lawn. Can the owner of the lawn sue the other party for breach of contract?, answer NO he cannot (well ok he can sue him but he won't win)

However, two men in a pub, one man offers to mow the other persons lawn, the offer is accepted and the owner of the lawn buys the person making the offer a pint of beer, as he gives the beer he makes it clear that it was bought because of the offer to mow the lawn. The man accepts the beer but then doesn't show to mow the lawn. Can the owner of the lawn sue the other party for breach of contract?, answer is YES he can and yes he will win.

The difference is that something of monetary value was exchanged, the promise to mow the lawn on one side and the beer on the other side. Consideration is present on both sides.

If such a silly case went to Court the owner of the lawn is restricted as to what he can sue for under breach of contract, he cannot apply anything punitive and can only expect to be put in the position he would have been in if the grass had been cut, so he could ask for an order of specific performance where the other person is forced to mow the lawn, or he could ask someone else to do it (at a fair market rate) and then ask for that money back.

I know this has been a bit of a long post (apologies for that), but the important thing to note is that a deposit from the customer is extremely important in cases where you want to enforce your terms and conditions.

JTRS:D

[simon1969]

Sorry for causing confusion Simon (livewire), but
was directed at Simon (JTRS) in response to...
:D

Oh :lol: still stand by your knowledge on law though!!

[1878blues]

Take them the cleaners, there is no respect or integrity from clients in this buisness.
I would just turn up and cause a comotion, If you hadnt rang how would you know the event had been cancelled??

[DazzyD]

Take them the cleaners, there is no respect or integrity from clients in this buisness.
I would just turn up and cause a comotion, If you hadnt rang how would you know the event had been cancelled??

So you would turn up and cause a scene thus resulting in spoiling an innocent 10 year old girls party?

How very considerate and professional of you.:(

[JTRS]

Take them the cleaners,

I'm curious as to how you think you can do that


JTRS

[simon1969]

So you would turn up and cause a scene thus resulting in spoiling an innocent 10 year old girls party?

How very considerate and professional of you.:(

Yes doesn't seem a good idea seeing as you would be remembered for causing a scene and they would tell their friends then they would tell their friends.....

[sleah]

A quick call to the venue told me the party was going ahead from 2-4pm and that it had been paid for.

Are you sure it's the same party, and not someone else who got there first....
For future reference, it would be worth contacting the venue first, then if the client say it's cancelled, you could say something like: "That's strange, I just contacted the venue to check access arrangements etc, and they say it's on as planned"