Hooking into venues sound systems.

[Shaun]

Took a late booking a few weeks ago for an afternoon gig (yesterday). Now, due to it being the silly season I didn't have time for a site visit but contacted the venue and spoke to the Banquet Manager. We discussed all the usual things and I felt confident that there would be no surprises.

So....cut to Sunday morning, I arrive at the venue at 10am and was approached by the 'sound guy' as I'm wheeling in my speakers. "Sorry mate" he says. "It's written into our clients contract with us that everyone hooks into our sound system". The client had failed to mention this to me. Usually I turn down bookings in this scenario. I've spent a lot of money getting my sound system to just how I want it so like to use my own gear.

Anyway, there's nothing I can do in this instance so I agree to hook into their system.

All set up and sound-check. This has to be the worst sound system I've ever heard in my life, and so quiet it sounded like background music. I asked for more 'head-room' in volume and I would adjust accordingly mith my mixer, but told that was as high as it he could put it. The speakers were also in a funny fixed position on the wall which meant the sound I could hear was muffled from my position on the stage.

Now, before I go any further, I want to point out that the venue staff were amazing, they couldn't have been more helpful and understood my concerns but had their hands were tied by the owners. The sound Tech guy said he could plug in some wedge monitor speakers to alleviate the muffled sound I heard on stage, and said he could give me a reasonable amount of volume on those. So three wedge monitors later I was ready to start. Sound check on the floor and although it sounded great on stage (where my monitor speakers were) the sound on the dancefloor was a joke. So I did the only thing I could do and turned 2 of the wedges on their ends and pointed them to the dancefloor. Result! We now had sound that was audible on the dancefloor.



Now, I've decided to incorporate a clause into my contract that states I can only provide services using my own sound system, and will not hook into venues systems. Does anyone have a similar clause in theirs that they wouldn't mind sharing? Please PM me if you do. This is the last time I'm ever doing a gig plugged into an inferior venue sound system.

Thanks in advance. :)

[Jonathan Ford]

I haven't, but would probably stop short of saying categorically that I would never do it.

It may be worthwhile including a clause along the lines of:

"The client undertakes to ensure, that under the prevailing regulations of their chosen venue, that the artiste is permitted to fully employ his own equipment. If the artiste is required by venue regulations to utilise pre-existing/installed equipment, the artiste shall in know way be held liable for any detrimental effect on his performance created by this requirement. No refunds will be permissible in this case".

[DJ Tony McQue]

It wasn't a rather nice hotel in South Quensferry was it? I had a nightmare with their limiter! I took my own rig but may as well have used their system, the levels I could get away with were embaressing and one cut of the power was bad enough. Really nice staff though and the view was ok..

Although it is great not having to wheel your own sound system in, it is so disappointing when the sound system turns out to be a lemon. I have had a couple of gigs where I had to use the venue's system, I always check it out beforehand now where possible and explain to the clients that it may not be up to much. That way, I can give 2 quotes and they can decide if it is important to them.

[Shaun]

It wasn't a rather nice hotel in South Quensferry was it? I had a nightmare with their limiter! I took my own rig but may as well have used their system, the levels I could get away with were embaressing and one cut of the power was bad enough. Really nice staff though and the view was ok..



No, the venue in question was in Edinburgh, I'll PM you the name of it (for future reference)


I haven't, but would probably stop short of saying categorically that I would never do it.

It may be worthwhile including a clause along the lines of:

"The client undertakes to ensure, that under the prevailing regulations of their chosen venue, that the artiste is permitted to fully employ his own equipment. If the artiste is required by venue regulations to utilise pre-existing/installed equipment, the artiste shall in know way be held liable for any detrimental effect on his performance created by this requirement. No refunds will be permissible in this case".

Thanks for your post. I may borrow the first part of that with your permission. :)

Ultimately I'm looking to word the second part stronger. I want it to state without any doubt that I will not be able to perform by hooking into the venues system. I'm definitely aiming for a hardline approach to this, it was an absolute nightmare yesterday and one I don't ever want a repeat of. :o

[DJ Tony McQue]

Nice one. Only other place I can think of that I have played and it may be is quite new, has a very distinct Scottish theme and has the subs hanging from the ceiling, it sounds weird and the sound guy agrees.

[Shaun]

Nice one. Only other place I can think of that I have played and it may be is quite new, has a very distinct Scottish theme and has the subs hanging from the ceiling, it sounds weird and the sound guy agrees.

Thanks, got your PM. :)

I'll start a thread in the Supporters area later, where it's hidden from public view. Hopefully we can all share our experiences of these places in that thread.

:beer1:

[Excalibur]

Oh Shaun, sorry to hear that mate. :( Monitors. How big is a monitor? :whistle: Do DJ's with hearing problems have to have bigger ones, and have them turned up a lot? :whistle: Ignore me, I'm thinking laterally again.

I don't think I'd categorically refuse to use a venue's system, but I might lobby forcefully to be allowed my "Monitors". ;) ;) ;) ;)

With noise problems cropping up in more and more places, I wonder if we'll see more venues insisting on us using an in-house PA, which ahs been set at a low level? :confused: :confused:

[wensleydale]

Wish I hadnt read this now- I'm at the ICA on Sat and using their PA.

[Shaun]

Oh Shaun, sorry to hear that mate. :( Monitors. How big is a monitor?

The venues monitors were little 10 inch things, sounded crap and had a buzzing. He said the buzzing was coming from my system! Riiiiiiiiiight...pfffft. I work week in week out without buzzing from my sound system.





I don't think I'd categorically refuse to use a venue's system, but I might lobby forcefully to be allowed my "Monitors". ;) ;) ;) ;)

With noise problems cropping up in more and more places, I wonder if we'll see more venues insisting on us using an in-house PA, which ahs been set at a low level? :confused: :confused:

I'm definitely heading towards the 'total refusal' route. If this kind of thing happens in more places then I guess I'll be working less and less and gradually packing in the DJing and getting myself a 9 till 5 job.

[CRAZY K]

With noise problems cropping up in more and more places, I wonder if we'll see more venues insisting on us using an in-house PA, which ahs been set at a low level? :confused: :confused:

Spot on Peter, I had a massive moan in the summer about a Hertfordshire venue with exactly the same problem.

Its always the same reason.

Complaints about excessive noise from the neighbours.

[Excalibur]

I'm definitely heading towards the 'total refusal' route. If this kind of thing happens in more places then I guess I'll be working less and less and gradually packing in the DJing and getting myself a 9 till 5 job.

You should know what's coming here, it's one of my favourites.

" Never say Never".

[NKR]

I turned down a rather nice wedding in Cheshire last year for good money as it was a plug into their system job.

Not for me thanks.

[abracadabradisco]

I've worked a venue near Norwich, Caister Hall by name and always have to link into their sound system as there are limiters on it. I use my gear as clients have asked this even though the venue was/is fitted and maintained by a friend of mine. I just put xlr o/p into the multiway cable and drive through a fantastic Tannoy 18" subs and mid-top system. Beautiful sound system and suited to the venue, trouble is it cannot be turned up because of the limiter.

[TONYTIGER]

Oh Shaun, sorry to hear that mate. :( Monitors. How big is a monitor? :whistle: Do DJ's with hearing problems have to have bigger ones, and have them turned up a lot? :whistle: Ignore me, I'm thinking laterally again.

I don't think I'd categorically refuse to use a venue's system, but I might lobby forcefully to be allowed my "Monitors". ;) ;) ;) ;)

With noise problems cropping up in more and more places, I wonder if we'll see more venues insisting on us using an in-house PA, which ahs been set at a low level? :confused: :confused:

Peter you may jest about monitors but they can be handy in certain venues were the acoustics of the venue are far from ideal i often use a small powered monitor so i can judge what.s going on.
I have a P/T job on the local council as Chairman of Municipal Buildings and i can tell you i deal with so may complaints re excessive volume from discos & bands and we have the power nowadays to close down venues that have numerous complaints from the public in most cases it is due to idiot operators of the sound equipment,but i can see the concern of the venue owner as its there living on the line.
IMHO its better to be asked to turn it up than turn it down.

[CRAZY K]

Peter you may jest about monitors but they can be handy in certain venues were the acoustics of the venue are far from ideal i often use a small powered monitor so i can judge what.s going on.
I have a P/T job on the local council as Chairman of Municipal Buildings and i can tell you i deal with so may complaints re excessive volume from discos & bands and we have the power nowadays to close down venues that have numerous complaints from the public in most cases it is due to idiot operators of the sound equipment,but i can see the concern of the venue owner as its there living on the line.
IMHO its better to be asked to turn it up than turn it down.

Out of interest do you think a lot of these venue owners ought to be more honest with the punters about the ludicrously low levels of sound that has to be maintained, I dont have a problem with sound limiters--its the venues I have the problem with.

I say this having tried to play 2 venues this year where frankly no music should have been allowed at all based on the very low levels allowed--and having a thoroughly miserable evening trying to entertain people who deserve better treatment.

[TONYTIGER]

Out of interest do you think a lot of these venue owners ought to be more honest with the punters about the ludicrously low levels of sound that has to be maintained, I dont have a problem with sound limiters--its the venues I have the problem with.

I say this having tried to play 2 venues this year where frankly no music should have been allowed at all based on the very low levels allowed--and having a thoroughly miserable evening trying to entertain people who deserve better treatment.
All venues will have been informed my there local council what db level is allowed if the venue is under restrictions so yes the manager should willingly give you that information.
One thing i have in my toolbox at all times is a sound level meter saves a lot of arguments

[gaza]

I have a booking in june at a venue where you have to plug into their sound system and because the place is a 13th century ( yes 13th century ) building they are not allowed to sound proof the place. they have also stated that the " disco music " must finish at 1030pm and the have half an hour of lower volume background music.:eek:

[DJ Davy]

With reference to above, using your meter, what is the criteria for measurement? Is it measured inside, or a certain distance outside of the venue?
The reason I am asking is when working in a pub at the weekend (18th Birthday Party) the landlady had a visit from the enviromental health people saying there was a complaint about the noise level. I asked the landlady how they measured it and she said they went into the complainers house and could 'feel the bass'.... couldn't hear the music though! I asked her about the criteria and she said when they had the limiter fitted (which I didnt plug into!) the thing was set up with an enviromental health officer standing across the road.... without a sound level meter.
For the record it wasn't even half volume, there were about 60 people in the venue and I was using a powered 15" suband 2 x 8" tops. The only issue I found is when the smokers went out and left the front door open.

[tgosoundandlight]

i not really had a bad experiance with plugging into a system that was already there most venues i've worked at havent been community centers tho i've mostly worked at churches or small theaters that have been hired for the night and country pubs that are in the middle of the sticks. ive only worked with a limiter once and it was set so low the clients decided to pay me in full and move onto the local clubs

[Excalibur]

Peter you may jest about monitors but they can be handy in certain venues were the acoustics of the venue are far from ideal i often use a small powered monitor so i can judge what.s going on.
I have a P/T job on the local council as Chairman of Municipal Buildings and i can tell you i deal with so may complaints re excessive volume from discos & bands and we have the power nowadays to close down venues that have numerous complaints from the public in most cases it is due to idiot operators of the sound equipment,but i can see the concern of the venue owner as its there living on the line.
IMHO its better to be asked to turn it up than turn it down.

Tony, I wasn't jesting about the need for monitors, simply wondering if they could become infill PA, as Shaun used them.

As for the highlighted text, well that's a mantra I've always tried to work by, and it has earned repeat work and praise on many occasions.

[TONYTIGER]

Tony, I wasn't jesting about the need for monitors, simply wondering if they could become infill PA, as Shaun used them.

As for the highlighted text, well that's a mantra I've always tried to work by, and it has earned repeat work and praise on many occasions.

Yes i agree with you re sound levels i have seen many discos that have a good set up play the right music they just don,t know were the volume control is.
As for monitors always a good idea and yes can be used as a PA sort of a second system at hand if the need arises a couple of active 10 " would be ideal.
I have also noticed that the older djs seem to have a better idea of acceptable
sound levels God knows why.

[TONYTIGER]

With reference to above, using your meter, what is the criteria for measurement? Is it measured inside, or a certain distance outside of the venue?
The reason I am asking is when working in a pub at the weekend (18th Birthday Party) the landlady had a visit from the enviromental health people saying there was a complaint about the noise level. I asked the landlady how they measured it and she said they went into the complainers house and could 'feel the bass'.... couldn't hear the music though! I asked her about the criteria and she said when they had the limiter fitted (which I didnt plug into!) the thing was set up with an enviromental health officer standing across the road.... without a sound level meter.
For the record it wasn't even half volume, there were about 60 people in the venue and I was using a powered 15" suband 2 x 8" tops. The only issue I found is when the smokers went out and left the front door open.

If the venue has a limiter fitted the settings will have been set by the local council they would have taken readings at the point of complaint,but the meter will only take readings in the actual room,i never use subs in a room that has a meter fitted because that,s what sets them off in most cases i use my sound meter to set up my PA so even with the sliders at full it plays out at a safe volume.
As for smokers having the doors open always a issue i have come across system that when you open a certain door the power cuts not great for your equipment.

[CRAZY K]

[QUOTE=TONYTIGER;497162]If the venue is under restrictions so yes the manager should willingly give you that information.
QUOTE]

Unfortunately in my experience the only information that is given normally is ---err there is a sound limiter.

I believe that if the Venue are working on the TCF rules that some of us apply to our businesses (Treating Customers Fairly) the Venue should be REQUIRED to inform the customer of the level, not in db which is meaningless to the public but in graded terms of soft, through to reasonably loud.

It would cut out a lot of grief for Entertainers like myself who have battled against limiters which are set way too low (not for the neighbours but for an adequate Professional performance) and also avoid the clients being disappointed with the negatives that limiters often bring.

I have managed to battle through this year with ludicrously low limiters but like the OP do not intend to do so if I can avoid it in the future.

[mark@pegasus]

As for smokers having the doors open always a issue i have come across system that when you open a certain door the power cuts not great for your equipment.

Would that be a certain venue not a stone's throw from my house?

[TONYTIGER]

Would that be a certain venue not a stone's throw from my house?

You got it in one,how stupid certainly when some joker works it out,:eek:

[CRAZY K]

Would that be a certain venue not a stone's throw from my house?

I can confirm I came across this very problem OF MAINS CUTTING in Portsmouth AS WELL AS THE LIMITER:eek: :eek: :eek:

The reality is they should not be allowing music at all in these venues if things are so bad you have Mains Cut off and very low Sound Limiters.

[mark@pegasus]

You got it in one,how stupid certainly when some joker works it out,:eek:

I also like the fact when you are setting up or packing up you normally can't because they are using that area to smoke and are sat right behind the doors :eek:

[flatliners]

I once worked in a venue and had to use there sound system didn't mind as it was the cluney in Newcastle and it was a turbosound rig