Another produb ish post

[marting]

Hi as per my welcome post im new to all this,

In a bit of a quandary regarding produb as im fresh out the box, money to buy a produb license is scarce, i wish to have a legal collection of music but dont want to pay £100-0000's of pounds, i was planning on playing from laptop but too build my collection up was considering buying second hand cd's from carboots & charity shops. In the short term am i best do just play cd's and invest in double cd deck or just go with the produb license and convert the tracks over.


Thanks

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Use CDs, rip your collection as you go but don't use it for DJing.

When you've earned a few quid from DJing and finished your ripping, then buy the Produb.

[Corabar Entertainment]

I would say that it really depends on how much you are thinking of investing in the CD player, and whether you would be continuing to use CDs as your long-term back up, or whether you intend to go completely digital long-term.

If the latter, then wouldn't the investment in the cd players now be a false economy and money down the drain?

[Danno13]

Look at it like this -

Produb is 5p per track (assuming you'll build up a collection of 5000 tracks)

Your alternative is buying all your music online and avoiding any ripping - most tracks are say 69p per track.

So as long as you keep below 64p per track when you buy your CDs, you'll be quids in. Compliations with 101 tracks are about £10 new, which is under 10p a track, so not really hard :)

[funkymook]

Have you a budget you are working to? If we knew what your maximum spend was it might help with suggestions for what options you have. What other gear are you needing to get as well, mixer, speakers, amps, lights, stands etc?

Without knowing your budget, I'm agreeing with the CD decks now option, there's very good kit available for not much money. You could be up and running very quickly (if you have everything else you need already), then when you do go digital with ProDub you also have the CD's as back-up.

[marting]

To be honest think im going to go with the produb license and have cd as the back up, is there any problem if the cd's are second from carboot etc.

[Corabar Entertainment]

None - other than the possible issue of getting receipts for accounting purposes.

[Vectis]

To be honest think im going to go with the produb license and have cd as the back up, is there any problem if the cd's are second from carboot etc.

Receipts (as mentioned), Condition and Legitimacy. Car boots are a popular outlet for counterfeit and stolen goods, but if you keep your wits about you remember that if it's too good to be true then it probably isn't, you should be OK.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Good point about the legitimacy, Martin.... I was only thinking about 'real' car boot stalls.... not all the flipping 'traders' (in the loosest possible sense) that invade them!

[marting]

Good point about the legitimacy, Martin....!

Well this is the point i have a very extensive private music collection all catalogued all in mp3 format and will be honest and say mostly downloaded, via file sharing sites i have purchased all my lighting and speakers kit. i dont want to be the guy who gets a visit and gets fined for using illegal music,
if i use cds got to buy them and something to play them on or convert to mp3 and buy a produb.....

[Corabar Steve]

Or download the lot from the likes of Amazon, 7 digital etc...

[djtrev]

I think you will find Marting that there are a lot of good professional DJ's out there in the same predicament as you who do not have the ProDub licence simply because they dont think it is workable.
Legally it would seem that you need the licence but the truth is that a lot of DJ's think it is not enforcable.
It is a very personal decision but which ever method you chose you will have support.
Maybe not the best thing to do on a mobile DJ site is to admit to illegal downloads but you wont be the first and certainly not the last to do it.

[Pink Elephant]

My understanding of the ProDub is that half the fee is for the format shifting (ripping from cd in our case), and the other half was the public performance of a track bought for personnal use.

If my understanding is correct (and no doubt I will find out if I am wrong ;) ) then if you download your songs only, then you still need the ProDub.

Or am I just being Fik (as they say on a well known soap)?

[Corabar Entertainment]

Or am I just being Fik (as they say on a well known soap)?:whistle:


TBH... I'm really not sure where you've got your information from, because I've not even heard that one before doing the rounds as one of the urban myths!

It is purely a copying / format shifting licence.

PS: ....although it is for people who are using the material in any kind of a commercial environment, so maybe that is where your confusion has arisen?????? :confused:

[Dynamic Entertainment]

My understanding of the ProDub is that half the fee is for the format shifting (ripping from cd in our case), and the other half was the public performance of a track bought for personnal use.

If my understanding is correct (and no doubt I will find out if I am wrong ;) ) then if you download your songs only, then you still need the ProDub.

Or am I just being Fik (as they say on a well known soap)?

It depends. If you download the track directly to the external HDD used for your playout then you dont need ProDub. If you download to your desktops internal HDD, then cut and paste over to your external...then you need the licence.

[Corabar Entertainment]

It depends. If you download the track directly to the external HDD used for your playout then you dont need ProDub. If you download to your desktops internal HDD, then cut and paste over to your external...then you need the licence...or if you make a back-up copy.

[Ecstatic Events]

It depends. If you download the track directly to the external HDD used for your playout then you dont need ProDub. If you download to your desktops internal HDD, then cut and paste over to your external...then you need the licence.

I download the MP3 directly to the external because I do not have a pro dub license. But to be fair. How on earth will someone be able to tell that i have done it this way, and how can the powers that be police this?

[sleah]

:whistle:


TBH... I'm really not sure where you've got your information from, because I've not even heard that one before doing the rounds as one of the urban myths!

It is purely a copying / format shifting licence.

PS: ....although it is for people who are using the material in any kind of a commercial environment, so maybe that is where your confusion has arisen?????? :confused:

Don't forget it's forunner - the Digital DJ License debarcle.... that was to do with public performance... being PPL..
I seem to recall there was a suggestion in the early days of needing both or something along those lines, so maybe that's where the myth has sprung from?:confused:

[marting]

Maybe not the best thing to do on a mobile DJ site is to admit to illegal downloads.

Not any more all gone 100% legal from now on must admit my finger was sshking when i hit the delete key.......

[Eski75]

But to be fair. How on earth will someone be able to tell that i have done it this way, and how can the powers that be police this?

I have always wondered this. As per the OP, I am new and want to be legal and shall be legal, however I am baffled as to how somebody can tell a ripped from CD to MP3 track and a legally downloaded one without stopping the gig and examining code etc (that's just a guess before the tech's rip me to shreds) and all this talk of receipts??? What if I cannot produce one email from Amazon that has been accidently deleted....the licence is revoked?

I hope this doesn't hijack the thread, but in addition to these points.....what if I'm a specialist genre DJ that has several thousand tracks in their collection but is only ever likely to use a few hundred...........do you pay for all of the tracks on your playout or only the ones your likely to use?????

I know I will be in a minority but it all seems like a lot of beauracratic nonsense.

[DJ Paulie]

It depends. If you download the track directly to the external HDD used for your playout then you dont need ProDub. If you download to your desktops internal HDD, then cut and paste over to your external...then you need the licence.

It doesn't affect me, but what about if you download to your internal HDD on your lappy that has a external HDD with all your music on, sort the tags and check the files, then transfer the files to your external HDD to use connected to another computer for playout ? Would you still need produb or would it not be needed as the file is technically still on the same drive ?

[DJ Paulie]

Oooh just noticed that was my 555th post, I've always been under the devil ! :devil:

[DazzyD]

Am I the only one having problems understanding that post?

If you are transferring the tracks from the internal HD to the external HD then you need Produb. From the situation you have described, surely you'd be making a copy of the original download to the external drive or am I missing something here?? :confused:

[yourdj]

For £200 you can buy allot of cd's, but you will not have reciepts or any proof of purchase.

But for £200 you can buy allot of music online - store it to one harddrive (ie your laptop) only and not have to legally purchase the produb.

Save your self the time and effort - Sorted.
Forget CD's (they are dead almost and make you look like an old school DJ) just get high
bitrate tracks and compilations as you can get some good deals out there.

[hammy]

Am I the only one having problems understanding that post?

If you are transferring the tracks from the internal HD to the external HD then you need Produb. From the situation you have described, surely you'd be making a copy of the original download to the external drive or am I missing something here?? :confused:

Yes, He isnt format shifting.

[yourdj]

Oooh just noticed that was my 555th post, I've always been under the devil ! :devil:

Isnt that 666 :confused:

The number of the beast :)


Yes, He isnt format shifting.

Still need it I think if your moving and storing music on different drives.

Thats how they get you. I am pretty sure they are ditching produb anyway soon as
they cant enforce it so this whole post is a waste of time anyway.

ADMIN NOTE TO ALL MEMBERS: Please take no notice of the last statement above in Toby's post. There is no evidence to support such a statement, and Toby should know better than to post such a dangerous statement on a thread giving advice about ProDub. The current regulations state that if you are either format shifting, or making a copy, you require ProDub and you are breaking the law if you don't have it. The only reason I have not deleted Toby's statement is because it has already been referred to / quoted in subsequent posts.

[hammy]

Hopefully this post may help you Paulie
http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?p=558042#post558042

[funkymook]

I am pretty sure they are ditching produb anyway soon as they cant enforce it so this whole post is a waste of time anyway.

Toby - what are you basing this on?

Until advised otherwise from an official source ProDub is still required for format shifting and shouldn't be avoided based on speculative statements like this.

[Corabar Steve]

I am pretty sure they are ditching produb anyway soon as
they cant enforce it so this whole post is a waste of time anyway.
Inside information Toby?

[DJ Paulie]

It's ok hammy, it doesn't affect us here in Ireland (yet !) just thought would put a scenario out there to help others. Thanks anyway.

[yourdj]

ADMIN NOTE TO ALL MEMBERS: Please take no notice of the last statement above in Toby's post. There is no evidence to support such a statement[/B]

But 666 is the number of the beast :confused:
This one has Steve on the album cover (red devil on the bottom).

Iron Maiden - The Number of the Beast - YouTube

As per the produb statement (and microsoft for that matter):

I understand and I am sorry and I will not post any such statements I do not fully know the answer to in future.
For anyone looking into produb this is a very good start:

http://www.prsformusic.com/users/recordedmedia/ProDub/Pages/produbfaqs.aspx

You can add another thump at BPM for that Steve. Must be up to six now ;)

[Corabar Entertainment]

You can add another thump at BPM for that Steve. Must be up to six now ;)God.... you're really on the ball today, aren't you Toby.

Now read this carefully.....



....MY NAME IS ANGELA

[yourdj]

God.... you're really on the ball today, aren't you Toby.

Now read this carefully.....



....MY NAME IS ANGELA

Sorry busy weekend. The steve bit was actually refering to the first bit about the devil :)

[DazzyD]

Yes, He isnt format shifting.

But he said he was downloading the track to the INTERNAL HDD then, after making sure all the tags are in order, transferring it to the EXTERNAL HDD. It's my understanding that, in order to do this, you do need Produb.

From advice obtained from members of the DJ Working Party who were part of the Produb consultation process and are well respected members of this very forum, I download my tracks directly to my external HDD meaning I can play them on any of my laptops without needing Produb.

To be fair, we've done Produb to death on here and it's been the subject of more mis-information, as highlighted by Toby's comments, than any other subject relevant to our industry. From my observations, Produb has been "in force" for quite a while now but I've seen no evidence that it's being "enforced" by the appropriate (albeit self-appointed) authority which is making it a bit of a joke. The DDJ (Digital DJ) licence that was the predecessor of Produb was a complete farce and, unless MCPS/PPL start to enforce Produb, this licence could well go the same way. In fact, there's recommendations included in the new proposals for the revamped Digital Economy Bill (or whatever the current government are calling it) that has the potential to make Produb redundant (maybe that is what Toby was referring to) but this all depends on the legal wording that is accepted once it is passed through parliament (and before anyone starts quoting forum rules to me, I'm not being political - merely making reference to a potential law currently being debated that could have big consequences on our industry!).

[Corabar Entertainment]

....and before anyone starts quoting forum rules to me, I'm not being political - merely making reference to a potential law currently being debated that could have big consequences on our industry!....Perfectly permissible under the forum rules if it directly relates to the job, Daz:-
Political discussion not directly related to Disco & karaoke issues are prohibited