Can anyone tell me why...

[Charlie Brown]

www.fhp.co.uk and www.fhpliving.co.uk - SEO is so bad?

They have asked me to do a quick report on where they are going wrong. They don't appear on Google for pretty much anything eg. 'apartments to rent in Nottingham'

They are having a redesign and want some tips/trips.

I don't really know a lot about SEO work etc but I did manage to stop them paying £100 a month to be guaranteed on the first page of Google within 24 hours. ;)

Any tips or tricks would be lovely.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

This is a mobile disco forum Charlie......

[Charlie Brown]

This is a mobile disco forum Charlie......

:lol:

I know but tips and tricks still apply? I was hoping one of the web gurus would be able to explain why.

[funkymook]

:lol:

I know but tips and tricks still apply? I was hoping one of the web gurus would be able to explain why.

I'm sure they can - at their usual hourly rate!

If they were paying (or thinking of paying) a £100 a month, refer them to one of the guys on here instead.

[yourdj]

The titles not brilliant:

<title>Fisher Hargreaves Proctor - Midlands Commercial Property consultants</title>

<title>FHP Living - Home</title>

I would say no 1 - lots of competition.
Are they on google maps?

[Charlie Brown]

I know they are willing to spend more than a £100 a month but the boss just wants to know why it's to appearing.

Is it because the site is a template? etc

I don't need loads of information. Just a one/two line answer. :)

[Mark Wild]

[url]
They have asked me to do a quick report on where they are going wrong.

Yeah right ! Tea boy ! LOL

[Charlie Brown]

Yeah right ! Tea boy ! LOL

Not anymore. ;)

[Mark Wild]

Not anymore. ;)

Why on earth would they ask you to do a report on their SEO? You don't have a clue about it, the first thing you did was jump on here and ask ;)

Sometimes I think you've mistaken MDD for your own personal Truman Show ;)

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Surely common sense should apply here Charlie?

They tell you they want to know why the site isnt doing well and are currently throwing money at it and not getting results.

If I was you I would show them your sites and say for a smaller outlay they can have a well performing site done by a professional and pass them on the web designers details.

It cant be done in one or two lines

[Charlie Brown]

The titles not brilliant:

<title>Fisher Hargreaves Proctor - Midlands Commercial Property consultants</title>

<title>FHP Living - Home</title>

I would say no 1 - lots of competition.
Are they on google maps?

Thanks Toby. Nope, they aren't.


Why on earth would they ask you to do a report on their SEO? You don't have a clue about it, the first thing you did was jump on here and ask ;)

Sometimes I think you've mistaken MDD for your own personal Truman Show ;)

You're right. I don't have a clue...neither does anyone else in the office. I said I would try and find out a bit of information for them.

Never mind.

[Alex]

Charlie,

Those two sites need LOTS of work to get the SEO friendly something that can't be posted on the forum really....

They should get in contact with a web specialist who would be able to look at it for them... and perhaps come into the office and explain where they are going wrong... again though, they will most likely charge an hourly rate for this.

And as we all know... avoid these companies that say " We guarantee you top spot in google" ... as they simply use AdWords!

[Cowlinn]

Try getting links to it in as many places as possible. The more links there are about to your site, your Google ranking will generally improve.

I'm not saying it'll definitely shoot up, but it certainly helps.

[Charlie Brown]

Thanks for your helps guys.

I had lengthy chats with some big SEO companies and learnt quite a lot.

One company charges £850 a day. You must use their services for at least two days a month...so it's not cheap. ;)

[funkymook]

One company charges £850 a day

For gods sake don't let Martin see that!

[Charlie Brown]

For gods sake don't let Martin see that!

:lol:

I thought the same. :sj:

[DJWilson]

Try getting links to it in as many places as possible. The more links there are about to your site, your Google ranking will generally improve.

I'm not saying it'll definitely shoot up, but it certainly helps.

Not always the case, if it's being linked from bad sites (Not on good terms with googlebot etc) it could do their site more harm than good.

[Paul The Party Dj]

Surely you should just offer to put them in touch with your web team (Martin)?

If you just try and harvest information from here and then pass it on you run the risk of appearing a fool when they ask you more questions that you can't answer.

At work if a customer asks you a question and you can't answer it you should find a colleague/co-worker who can and put them together.

Make the introduction, everyone's happy, and you don't risk looking stupid.

[Marc J]

As you've found out Charlie, proper SEO isn't cheap. On-site optimisation is only part of it, and that's the part most people might want to learn and do themselves. It's the off-site stuff (getting inbound links from good, relevant, high ranking sites) that can be time consuming and expensive and SEO companies aren't just charging for their services, they are possibly paying for your links to be placed.

I do the on-site stuff myself, I've given enough advice on this very forum to help anyone who wants to read up on it, but you will possibly have to pay for the inbound links, even if you organise the placing of these yourself. And there a re a LOT of dodgy companies selling inbound links, picking a reputable one is not easy - picking the wrong one will do more harm than good!

You can try it "on-the-cheap" (i.e. DIY) by submitting articles to relevant article sites, then bookmark these in social media sites where the profile should already be linked to the site in question. And by articles I mean 250-300 words, with deep links to your site (i.e. not the homepage, but directly to a relevant page).

[Charlie Brown]

Surely you should just offer to put them in touch with your web team (Martin)?

If you just try and harvest information from here and then pass it on you run the risk of appearing a fool when they ask you more questions that you can't answer.

At work if a customer asks you a question and you can't answer it you should find a colleague/co-worker who can and put them together.

Make the introduction, everyone's happy, and you don't risk looking stupid.

:agree:

Marc J (I believe) is chocker and Martin isn't taking any more work on at the moment!

I might speak to Richie who designs this site. They know I'm not a whiz but he just wants me to compile some 'basic' information.


As you've found out Charlie, proper SEO isn't cheap. On-site optimisation is only part of it, and that's the part most people might want to learn and do themselves. It's the off-site stuff (getting inbound links from good, relevant, high ranking sites) that can be time consuming and expensive and SEO companies aren't just charging for their services, they are possibly paying for your links to be placed.


Thanks Marc. Your thoughts make sense.

Does a couple of grand a month seem right or OTT?

[Marc J]

Marc J (I believe) is chocker

Correct!


Thanks Marc. Your thoughts make sense.

Does a couple of grand a month seem right or OTT?

That depends what they're doing for it and what the results are. Professional copy writing alone doesn't come cheap and if they're doing what I mentioned above (i.e. writing articles) then it wouldn't take many to hit 4 figures in cost.

A lot of it is simply time consuming, for example keeping social media busy, writing articles, checking the results etc. If there's someone sitting arond the office not doing much get them onto some of it. I imagine property rental / sale is something which would keep Facebook / Twitter accounts lively, you could even have a YouTube account and do video tours of properties etc. etc. This would be half the work done.

Just sticking a website up and thinking the world and his dog are going to flock to it isn't the case anymore, I'm afraid.

[Marc J]

Ok Charlie, back to the OP, here's some free SEO advice for starters: -

You're example query of "apartments to rent in Nottingham" fails mainly because that phrase doesn't appear in the site(s). A simple exact phrase search ["apartments to rent in Nottingham" (http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=%22apartments+to+rent+in+Nottingham%22&aq=f&aqi=g2g-o1&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&fp=975ed894378411e6)] shows this, and is confirmed by modifying this to ["apartments to rent in Nottingham" inurl:fhpliving.co.uk (http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=%22apartments+to+rent+in+Nottingham%22+inurl:fhp living.co.uk&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&fp=975ed894378411e6)] - zero results.

Interstingly ["apartments to rent in Nottingham" fhpliving.co.uk (http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=%22apartments+to+rent+in+Nottingham%22+fhpliving .co.uk&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&fp=975ed894378411e6)] gives one result - this very thread!

Take the number one result for that phrase - primelocation.com. A search for sites linking to it [link:www.primelocation.com (http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=link:www.primelocation.com&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&fp=975ed894378411e6)] returns "about 248 results". In contrast a search on [link:www.fhpliving.co.uk (http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=link:www.fhpliving.co.uk&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&fp=975ed894378411e6)] gives 4 results. All your own.

One thing I did notice and this is a huge factor in the on-site SEO, is that as far as search engines are concerned you have no properties listed, because forms will stop some search engines in their tracks. So for them your Buy & Let Page (http://search.thinkproperty.com/fhpcityliving/property/search/1) is a dead end. Take the primelocation site as an example, just by following links you get to property listings, which you can then refine by searches. Property listings can be loaded with keywords and phrases without looking "loaded", after all that's what they are. I noticed a few "featured properties" links but you should really be able to find every property you have just by following links, no forms. Search engines follow links - they won't all submit a form.

Another thing - your Press Releases Page (http://www.fhpliving.co.uk/index.php?page=144) - Do you really need me to explain what's wrong with this page? Whoever did that should be shot, and if it's your web designers, sacked first!

That's just for starters, but should be enough to get you going!

[Charlie Brown]

Thank you very very very much Marc.

Really appreciate it :)

[Charlie Brown]

Take the number one result for that phrase - primelocation.com. A search for sites linking to it [link:www.primelocation.com (http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=link:www.primelocation.com&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&fp=975ed894378411e6)] returns "about 248 results". In contrast a search on [link:www.fhpliving.co.uk (http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy&hl=en&q=link:www.fhpliving.co.uk&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&fp=975ed894378411e6)] gives 4 results. All your own.


Could someone explain this further? Please :)

[discomobiledj]

Primelocation has 248 links, whereas fhpliving has 4!

You should really just say to them that they'll need to find a decent web designer who should have at least implemented some SEO!

Look at the keywords....

"Property, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, Apartments, Flats, Homes"

fhpliving
fhp 13 3.41%

primelocation
property 45 4.65%

The above is the keyword most used by each site

[Booche]

:agree: Why have they got you sorting there website out for, your a mobile dj and a estate agent :eek:

Explain what others have said to you Charlie, yes you may be trying to help them but at this rate you will be takeing over the world with all the multi tasking your doing lol

[Marc J]

Could someone explain this further? Please :)

The example searches (if you click on the links) show the results for sites linking to each site. Primelocation had 248 (now 245) pages linking to it. fhpliving had 4 (now 2).

This is simply an illustration of one of the many SEO factors where FHP is failing.

[Charlie Brown]

This is what I have done....copied a tiny bit of Marcs post. ;) I have also done a excel sheet with their key phrases/rankings. If the guru's could let me know whether I'm on the right track or not...that would be grand. Thanks for all your help. :)

Introduction

Both www.fhp.co.uk and www.fhpliving.co.uk have poor SEO. SEO is the process of improving the visibility of a website or a web page in search engines via the ‘natural’ or un-paid ‘organic’ search results. In general, the earlier (or higher on the page), and more frequently a site appears in the search results list, the more visitors it will receive from the search engine.

To improve FHP’s Google rankings, we need to focus on common key phrases, e.g. – ‘homes for sale in mapperly park’

It’s going to take a few months for us to even see an improvement. The property market is very competitive on Goggle with everyone fighting for a place, because (as you know) it’s the key to generating more business and raising awareness about what we do. Although FHP is a respected company throughout Nottinghamshire and relies heavily on referrals, it’s essential we keep our website up to date and on Google…after all, it is our online shop window.

What’s going wrong and what can we do?

The text and information on both websites needs to be professionally rewritten so it’s more Google ‘friendly’. For example, on the front page of the FHP Living site (first thing mentioned) is the escooter. Although it’s nice to promote the fact we are going green, it doesn’t help Google whatsoever. It doesn’t mention who we are, what we do, areas we cover…and that we sell and rent properties! How is Google ever going to pick this up?

FHP Living sell and rent properties in Nottinghamshire, specerlising in The Park, Mapperley Park, The City, Southwell, Colton Basset (etc) We are Nottingham’s award winning managements consultants. We have a variety of properties for sale in some of the most sought after areas in Nottingham. Our rented property schedule can be found here – (link to a PDF of our CURRENT property schedule. This must be updated regularly. I know people can search online but the more activity there is with update & changing the site, the more chance of Google recognising us) can be found here. We hope you enjoy browsing our website and properties in Nottingham. If you would like more information on any of the properties featured on the site, please call 01158411155 or come and visit us in The Lace Market at our Weekday Cross branch where our property consultants will be happy to assist you further.

I know the text above is very boring and repetitive BUT Google will love it. A list of areas we cover and what we do and offer - is exactly what people will be searching for on Google. What I have written is simple but effective.

There are loads of issues ‘behind the scenes’ too. A lot of the meta tags are useless. Meta tags are the structure of a website. What you see on your computer screen is the skin, whereas the meta tags are the DNA.

The titles on each page are also pointless. Like meta tags, titles are essential for achieving a high Google ranking.

Here is FHP Living’s current home page title:
<title>FHP Living - Home</title>
However, this would be more effective:

<title>FHP Living – Estate agents selling and renting properties in Mapperley Park, The Park, Nottingham city. Property management Nottingham</title>

Links – we need to link FHP and FHP Living to as many ‘decent’ sites as possible. By ‘decent’, I mean websites that are healthy in Google rankings. Google will then recognise this, associate us with the healthy sites and slowly but surely our Google rankings will increase.

Bit more complex but here goes…

Lets take "apartments to rent in Nottingham" as an example. Why isn’t FHP Living showing on Google for this search phrase? Mainly because that phrase doesn't appear on the site - A simple exact phrase search ["apartments to rent in Nottingham"] shows this, and is confirmed by modifying this to ["apartments to rent in Nottingham" inurl:fhpliving.co.uk] - zero results.

Let’s take the number one result for that phrase (apartments to rent in Nottingham) - primelocation.com. A search for sites linking to it [link:www.primelocation.com] returns "about 248 results". In contrast a search on [link:www.fhpliving.co.uk] gives 4 results.

One thing I did notice and this is a huge factor in the on-site SEO, is that as far as search engines are concerned you have no properties listed, because the online forms will stop some search engines in their tracks. So for them your Buy & Let Page is a dead end. Take the primelocation site as an example, just by following links you get to property listings, which you can then refine by searches. Property listings can be loaded with keywords and phrases without looking "loaded", after all that's what they are. There are a few "featured properties" links but you should really be able to find every property you have just by following links, no forms. Search engines follow links - they won't all submit a form.

What would a SEO company do?

Proper SEO isn't cheap. On-site optimisation is only part of it. It's the off-site stuff (getting inbound links from good, relevant, high ranking sites) that can be time consuming and expensive and SEO companies aren't just charging for their services, they are possibly paying for our links to be placed.

We can try it "on-the-cheap" (i.e. DIY) by submitting articles to relevant article sites, then bookmark these in social media sites where the profile should already be linked to the site in question. And by articles I mean 250-300 words, with deep links to our sites (i.e. not the homepage, but directly to a relevant page)

A lot of it is simply time consuming, for example keeping social media busy, writing articles, checking the results etc. If there's someone or me sitting around the office not doing much get them onto some of it. I imagine property rental / sale is something which would keep Facebook / Twitter accounts lively, you could even have a YouTube account and do video tours of properties etc. etc. This would be half the work done.

We are looking at £1,000 + per month to maintain both sites and keep them on Google. It’s an investment and money well spent. I think FHP are missing out on a lot by not easily accessible. I would also predict an increase in business – especially the residential market.

I had lengthy chats with several companies. Sarah at Creare Group was by far the best (and cheapest!) Really helpful and patient, I think she would be good to work with. I will forward you the email/quote she sent me.

I hope this all makes sense and sorry it’s taken so long!

Cheers,

Charlie Brown

[discomobiledj]

Spell check before sending it. Also this line:

"I think she would be good to work with"

Lands you right in it when it all goes pear shaped.

It's quite clear you have copied the bulk of it. Be honest and be yourself. Don't try and sound like a web/SEO developer when you're not.

[Marc J]

Spell check before sending it.

A spell check won't pick up on the "Goggle" :D

That's all fine Charlie, but just be prepared to explain any of it in more depth if you're asked to. If you can't, just say you don't know rather than try to fluff an answer.

Be prepared for any SEO "experts" (i.e. anyone who thinks they know a little on the subject) arguing on any of the points. For example meta tags - the only important ones are titles and descriptions, and alt tags on images help too. Apart from that any time spent on meta tags is wasted, but that's just the "generally accepted" stance (at least as far as Google is concerned), you'll always get some people arguing with you just for the hell of it that "the keyword meta tag is crucial" - :muppet:s :D

Others might also argue that search engines do search beyond simple forms (Google might - http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2008/04/crawling-through-html-forms.html), but even if they do it's still bad practice to hide anything important behind a form (or, for that matter, javascript or flash navigation).

One thing I forgot to mention in my earlier posts - RSS feeds. If you have constantly changing content (which I'm assuming the property lising is) you should look into providing an RSS feed for them. This is something that Prime Location doesn't even have! Visitors can have desktop RSS Feed Readers, or subscribe to them with their browsers, and be notified straight away of new additions. This is something that your web developer would definitely have to do, though, and they might even shy away from it. But search engines love RSS feeds!