Cheating Club Djs

[TONYTIGER]

Over the last month i have been clubbing with my son (Tim Lyall) and have admired the skills of some of the top club Djs in the world ,but it would seem not all is what it appears to be.
Stood backstage admiring the skills of a couple of big name guys and girls who are in the top 100 list of club Djs and i can see that there not really mixing just a lot of x fader work he tells me that quite a few are pre doing there tempos on Appeleton before the gig so all they do is stand there and waggle the x fader so a bit like pre recording there set.Im no expert in this field but it seems a real rip off to me.:Naughty:

At least us mobiles work live and make it up as we go along.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Yep...I've worked with a number of top hard house DJs, and a few really are taking the :Censored:

One, who makes great use of accapellas and effects, actually pre records 10 minute "mini-mixes" and just mixes them live.

I know 2 Traktor/MIDI users who sound very technical when your listen yo them mixing off 4 decks...but they have Sync turned on..

And one very famous Trance DJ...radio 1...can you guess...who layered each mix with effects and had the bass off on both tracks each time...

[WWDJ]

Club Djing. Totally different ball game, but some of the same tools can apply to mobile DJing. I use Traktor which will sync lock the beats for me (assuming I have put the work in advance and beatgridded my tunes), but I am in full control of the blend of the two tracks. It means I have more time to interact with the audience (i.e. deal with drunken people making requests)


I know 2 Traktor/MIDI users who sound very technical when your listen yo them mixing off 4 decks...but they have Sync turned on..

And one very famous Trance DJ...radio 1...can you guess...who layered each mix with effects and had the bass off on both tracks each time...

I don't see the problem as long as result is good. If it's not good, that's a different matter.

I use it to avoid a potential train wreck if I mess up.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

This thing is though...these guys are playing out for 1 hour and often have rehearsed sets...they shouldnt even have a whiff of a potential train wreck.

[JTRS]

Are the crowd there because the DJ is mixing live or are they there to enjoy the music.

In suspect it's the latter, the crowd just want tune after tune of well mixed music, so if the DJ has done some (or all) of it beforehand then I don't see how anyone can feel cheated, providing it's all their own work.

In my mind it's not like going to a concert to see an artist/band, because in that situation you are going to see them perform as opposed to just hearing their music.

JTRS

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Are the crowd there because the DJ is mixing live or are they there to enjoy the music.

In suspect it's the latter, the crowd just want tune after tune of well mixed music, so if the DJ has done some (or all) of it beforehand then I don't see how anyone can feel cheated, providing it's all their own work.

In my mind it's not like going to a concert to see an artist/band, because in that situation you are going to see them perform as opposed to just hearing their music.

JTRS

Depends on the scene IMO... the average clubber doesnt care...in a more specific scene, such has the Hard Dance scene, it matters. Ive seen a whole dancefloor sit down (approx 1000 clubbers) when the Dj fluffed 4 mixes in a row.

Ive also seen 2500 clubbers sit down when Kim Ayres tried to play the same set 3 nights in a row to the same group of clubbers...

[JTRS]

Depends on the scene IMO... the average clubber doesnt care...in a more specific scene, such has the Hard Dance scene, it matters. Ive seen a whole dancefloor sit down (approx 1000 clubbers) when the Dj fluffed 4 mixes in a row.

Ive also seen 2500 clubbers sit down when Kim Ayres tried to play the same set 3 nights in a row to the same group of clubbers...

But we're not talking about fluffing, we are talking about if pre-mixing is cheating the crowd.

You said the crowd sat down because the DJ fluffed 4 mixes, which would suggest that they were there for the music, would they have sat down if the mixing was perfect and then they were told the DJ wasn't doing it live?

That's the question (or at least I thought it was)

JTRS

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Ok...generally speaking Andy Whitby has fell from grace with a huge majority of hard house fans, purely because he premixes his 10 minute sections.

Trust me, once it was realised...someone noticed that he wasnt even behind the decks when the mixing was happening.... the message boards/forums were on fire with people complaining that he shouldnt have been given Hard dance Awards etc etc.

What you have to remember is that the bulk of people in specialist scenes can beatmix to some degree themselves...so yes to find out that the people they look up to are premixing...they would/and do/did feel cheated.

[WWDJ]

Depends on the scene IMO... the average clubber doesnt care...in a more specific scene, such has the Hard Dance scene, it matters. Ive seen a whole dancefloor sit down (approx 1000 clubbers) when the Dj fluffed 4 mixes in a row.

Ive also seen 2500 clubbers sit down when Kim Ayres tried to play the same set 3 nights in a row to the same group of clubbers...


But we're not talking about fluffing, we are talking about if pre-mixing is cheating the crowd.

You said the crowd sat down because the DJ fluffed 4 mixes, which would suggest that they were there for the music, would they have sat down if the mixing was perfect and then they were told the DJ wasn't doing it live?

That's the question (or at least I thought it was)

JTRS

To be fair, if they are likely to fluff 4 mixes they should be using tools to ensure that they don't

and repeating sets to the same crowd .... erm no.

You would expect a comedian to use the same jokes if you went to several shows, but if you know you are playing to the same audience you would change the set surely ?

I'm inclined to agree. Some are talking the mick.

[WWDJ]

Ok...generally speaking Andy Whitby has fell from grace with a huge majority of hard house fans, purely because he premixes his 10 minute sections.

Trust me, once it was realised...someone noticed that he wasnt even behind the decks when the mixing was happening.... the message boards/forums were on fire with people complaining that he shouldnt have been given Hard dance Awards etc etc.

What you have to remember is that the bulk of people in specialist scenes can beatmix to some degree themselves...so yes to find out that the people they look up to are premixing...they would/and do/did feel cheated.

Is using Ableton premixing though? I was aware that it is a live remixing tool, although I haven't had the patience to teach myself how it working and I don't feel it would benefit me as a mobile DJ anyhow.

[yourdj]

To be fair, if they are likely to fluff 4 mixes they should be using tools to ensure that they don't

To be fair they if they cant mix they should be at the bar or dancing on the dancefloor. Even better sat at home with a cup of tea. :D

whats the fun in pre mixing everything and having toold to keep you beat matched. pre produce the set but there is nothing more exilerating than making it up as you go along :)

Even better get a synth out and do some improvisation on the fly.

like this

YouTube - Invention Massive San Diego Wolfgang Gartner - 5th Symphony Live


That is an artist. not someone beat matching some tracks they have mixed at home. Any plonker can do that.
The live production (so that no set is the same) is the future IMO.

They have ableton guitars now which can be used to walk about and make it up as you go along. much more interative too.


Is using Ableton premixing though?

im sure ableton does not let you change bpm like traktor and the likes which may lie the problem.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Is using Ableton premixing though? I was aware that it is a live remixing tool, although I haven't had the patience to teach myself how it working and I don't feel it would benefit me as a mobile DJ anyhow.

I would say...no...its a tool. You have the likes of Lab4 who do everything live...more like watching a band ;)

[TONYTIGER]

Im glad you lads know what your talking about,i have noticed in Japan all the top clubs have viewing booths were the punters or geeks watch the dj and judge and discuss the mixing techniques so really no dj can get away with anything.

I tend to think the real dance club punters are well clued up re proper mixing ,and i was told only this week my a mate of mine who does FOH at a well known festival in the west country that one of the main acts in the dance tent just handed a cd with a 1 hour set to the sound guy,i could do that even at my age now what have i done with those :cool:

[Javlingames]

I really dont see why these club DJs should be cheating anyway. They have the full12'' versions of songs with huge intro's and outr's to create the perfect mix/blend. They play the whole 8 minutes of each tune.

And that is why DJ's like Jazzy Jeff, Kid Capri, DJ AM, Grandmaster Flash and Z trip to mention a few are real dj's!!

[Larry B Entertainment]

Club Djing. Totally different ball game, but some of the same tools can apply to mobile DJing. I use Traktor which will sync lock the beats for me (assuming I have put the work in advance and beatgridded my tunes), but I am in full control of the blend of the two tracks. It means I have more time to interact with the audience (i.e. deal with drunken people making requests)



I get what you are saying.
I have a selection of tunes that I tend to use in my trance sets and they are timed and beat gridded perfectly so I dont have to worry about beat drift. This allows me to concentrate on looping / fx and interacting with the crowd. I also play live keyboard parts over the top on Korg and Roland synths and also have a controller keyboard hooked into Traktor.
I dont do much mobile work these days and tend to do the odd house party or dj slot here and there.

[Charlie Brown]

I would love to be able to mix. :(

[hammy]

hope this helps you to learn Charlie

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh28/hammyloz/cake02.jpg

[DJ Tony McQue]

I would love to be able to mix. :(

If you can count to 4, have a sense of rhythm and you are not deaf yet, it should just come to you. All it takes is practice and a good knowledge of music. Software does make it easier these days with the sync button but you still need to know the principles of mixing tracks together. It is the most important part of DJing for me apart from listening to what my customers want and playing what people want to hear.

[Jason]

When working with a large dance act in the early 00's, one of their roadies suggested that Fat Boy Slim used to pre-mix his stuff...

Not sure if that's true... almost the same as "bloke down pub told me", but I'd not be surprised! lol

[yourdj]

I would love to be able to mix. :(

Well as I have said before come down too mine and you will be able to mix in one hour.
There is nothing too it. Just takes a good ear if your not using trickery.

[MusicCity]

David Guetta fails:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acabGVKgzKk&NR=1

[DJ Jules]

David Guetta fails:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acabGVKgzKk&NR=1

Absolutely hilarious. Caught out by a dodgy CD. I hadn't seen that :D

[TONYTIGER]

Well as I have said before come down too mine and you will be able to mix in one hour.
There is nothing too it. Just takes a good ear if your not using trickery.

I think you and others have missed the point on this thread i was talking about Djs that are regarded as the best in the world and are in the top 100 not some local club jock or mobile beat mixing these well paid superstar Djs are meant to be the masters of mixing and there are some that are pulling the wool over the paying punters its all smoke and mirrors imho .

And your going to take one hour to teach Charlie to mix, WOW
i was speaking to Carl last year and he told me he is still learning new techniques after all these years,real nice modest man.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Well as I have said before come down too mine and you will be able to mix in one hour.


I reckon you could teach someone how to mix in an hour to your standard....:D

[flatliners]

One of the worst djs i have seen was judge jules
And two of the best were both called dave pearce. and Dave seaman

[JTRS]

One of the worst djs i have seen was judge jules
And two of the best were both called dave pearce. and Dave seaman

Is that what ex England goalkeepers go on to do then?

JTRS

[Shaun]

And your going to take one hour to teach Charlie to mix, WOW




I'm with Toby, I could teach anyone the basics of mixing and have them understanding the concept of beatmixing and knowing how to do the basics within an hour. It's not rocket science once you get your head around the concept of it.

[TONYTIGER]

I'm with Toby, I could teach anyone the basics of mixing and have them understanding the concept of beatmixing and knowing how to do the basics within an hour. It's not rocket science once you get your head around the concept of it.

But the thread is not about basic beatmixing :confused:

[Shaun]

But the thread is not about basic beatmixing :confused:

My comment was aimed more towards Charlie's comment, Toby's reply and your follow up reply, rather than the original topic matter...


I would love to be able to mix. :(


Well as I have said before come down too mine and you will be able to mix in one hour.



And your going to take one hour to teach Charlie to mix, WOW

As you can see neither Toby or Charlie indicated what level of mixing. So, I stand by my earlier post (even though it isn't the original topic matter)....basic mixing CAN be taught in an hour. :)

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Forget the hour...basic beatmatching can be taught to a 7 year old...i know...ive done it :D

[Jonathan Ford]

David Guetta fails:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acabGVKgzKk&NR=1

Poor bugger. Lonely place to stand no matter how much you get paid!

[yourdj]

I would love to be able to mix. :(

OK then beat match, loop and cue which is the basics. Depends what your using gear wise. :)




And your going to take one hour to teach Charlie to mix, WOW.

I am not missing the point! I only offered to help charlie mix tracks so the sarcastic wow was hardly nessesary was it.


I reckon you could teach someone how to mix in an hour to your standard....:D

Thanks :p Im not too bad ;) I just never practice and make it up as I go along. Then again I hardly ever do clubs.


I'm with Toby, I could teach anyone the basics of mixing and have them understanding the concept of beatmixing and knowing how to do the basics within an hour. It's not rocket science once you get your head around the concept of it.



As you can see neither Toby or Charlie indicated what level of mixing. So, I stand by my earlier post (even though it isn't the original topic matter)....basic mixing CAN be taught in an hour. :)

Exactly. There is allot of snobbery around this area and it is really not nessesary.


Absolutely hilarious. Caught out by a dodgy CD. I hadn't seen that :D

I like the way he blames the CDJ :) The same thing then happens with the other deck.

[TONYTIGER]

OK then beat match, loop and cue which is the basics. Depends what your using gear wise. :)



I am not missing the point! I only offered to help charlie mix tracks so the sarcastic wow was hardly nessesary was it.



Thanks :p Im not too bad ;) I just never practice and make it up as I go along. Then again I hardly ever do clubs.





Exactly. There is allot of snobbery around this area and it is really not nessesary.



I like the way he blames the CDJ :) The same thing then happens with the other deck.

Toby i suggest you look the word WOW up nothing to do with sarcastic in fact just the opposite (to delight or impress someone) so in fact praise from me.

[funkymook]

And your going to take one hour to teach Charlie to mix, WOW
i was speaking to Carl last year and he told me he is still learning new techniques after all these years,real nice modest man.


Toby i suggest you look the word WOW up nothing to do with sarcastic in fact just the opposite (to delight or impress someone) so in fact praise from me.

Not sarcastic - yeah right.

(and if you look that up you'll see I'm totally agreeing that you weren't being sarcastic).

[Corabar Entertainment]

Not sarcastic - yeah right.

(and if you look that up you'll see I'm totally agreeing that you weren't being sarcastic).
:rofl: :Laugh::rofl: :Laugh::rofl: :Laugh::rofl:

[Mark Wild]

Not sarcastic - yeah right.

(and if you look that up you'll see I'm totally agreeing that you weren't being sarcastic).

A very cool post :cool:

[Larry B Entertainment]

Poor bugger. Lonely place to stand no matter how much you get paid!

Where was his backup ? :eek:

Cant believe that even DJs on his level would not have a backup :mad:

[TONYTIGER]

:rofl: :Laugh::rofl: :Laugh::rofl: :Laugh::rofl:


WOW thats novel:)

[Danieleastwood.com]

Where was his backup ? :eek:

Cant believe that even DJs on his level would not have a backup :mad:

What would you have as backup there????? He had 3 CDJ's and was left with 2 to play with.

The equipment won't have been his anyway. It'll have been the stock of some audio/Pa hire company.

I think he was quite cool about it, shrug it off and get on with it! in the words of Top Gear... Subzero!

[yourdj]

What would you have as backup there????? He had 3 CDJ's and was left with 2 to play with.

The equipment won't have been his anyway. It'll have been the stock of some audio/Pa hire company.

I think he was quite cool about it, shrug it off and get on with it! in the words of Top Gear... Subzero!

More importantly he pretended it was the gear when it was actually his cd. Probably a badly burnt or scratched one.
and took ages to sort the problem out when he could have just pressed play on the other CDJ and at least played some music even if it was the last track he came from.

Even better if he was not using the third CDJ have back up in that ready to go or an MP3 player assuming they were invented when the video was filmed.

[DiscoMagic]

Cheating Club DJ's ...

Just found this thread.... and moving away from the above conversation I have to share an experience from the weekend

I was in Clapham on Sat (i met up with a pal for a LATE drink :cheers:) and ended up in a bar where they were playing CD's at top volume (as you'd expect ;) )

Any way I thought they were playing cds becuase of the 2 second gap between most songs, tracks jumping more than MC Hammer etc etc... that was until I looked over to the corner and a 'DJ' playing...

OMG - how do these people get away with it... whats more why on earth do the bars hire them... ok so 95% of the people were :Censored: but really is that any excuse...? It guys like this that give DJing a bad name...

Confused - I was ... :confused: :omg:

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Cheating Club DJ's ...

Just found this thread.... and moving away from the above conversation I have to share an experience from the weekend

I was in Clapham on Sat (i met up with a pal for a LATE drink :cheers:) and ended up in a bar where they were playing CD's at top volume (as you'd expect ;) )

Any way I thought they were playing cds becuase of the 2 second gap between most songs, tracks jumping more than MC Hammer etc etc... that was until I looked over to the corner and a 'DJ' playing...

OMG - how do these people get away with it... whats more why on earth do the bars hire them... ok so 95% of the people were :Censored: but really is that any excuse...? It guys like this that give DJing a bad name...

Confused - I was ... :confused: :omg:

Because they are cheap and are willing to work on a saturday night?

Having worked in clubs I cant begin to explain the amount of head banging moments I've had with punters i.e requesting a song that was played ten minutes ago........requesting the song that is CURRENTLY playing....

[woody2]

pre recorded sets is nothing new, 20 odd years ago it was not unusual to have a DAT machine on the stand, and also some big name djs bringing a portable DAT machine with them.