dmx possibly

[Supreme Soundz]

hi ive never run dmx with my mobile rig or set it up though i have used numerous dmx programs show cad etc in clubs with all the scenes allready set up, ive currently got on my cross bar 2 dynamo 250's, 2 dynarock 250's all linked, and a kam dmx120 laser, i also use 2 abstract xp1 led rgb panels linked together im getting fed up with the dynas having to press the buttons on the ca8 controller as they seem to want to strobe all most of the time, would one answer be to run all the fixtures dmx, not worried about the laser,

how easy would this be?
is there any other options?
whats the best software thats cheap?
and can i still have sound to light?
also i do not want to carry another pc with me i currently run serato could i run both off one pc?

my rig looks like this

[Ajaysdisco]

I'm not a big user of DMX but:

how easy would this be?
Easy

is there any other options?
Sound to light?!!!

whats the best software thats cheap?
Possibly Daslite, you can download the software for free so have a look.

and can i still have sound to light?
Pass, without looking I couldn’t say.

also i do not want to carry another pc with me i currently run serato could i run both off one pc?
Not good, if the DMX software goes pear shaped you may have to reboot the computer.
Have a look at Ryger, you can pre programme the buttons at home and run it without a computer attached.

Hope this helps.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

You can't possibly just say DMX is easy. It depends what sotware or hardware you are using, if you have any experience with it, what you want to do with your lighting, what lighting you are using etc etc

[hammy]

You can't possibly just say DMX is easy.

I`m glad that was said :D

I have mine dmx linked and run sound to light as I have not got a clue what to do and have given up trying

[Supreme Soundz]

ok thanks for the info, so im guessing only wanting to use the one pc rules out dmx does it?

as for saying other options are sound to light, i do run the lights in sound to light any way linked master slave between the acme lights then seperatly linked the two xp1 panels, its mainly the acme dynarocks and dynamos that mis behave liking to strobe alot, thats why i bought the ca8 controller now i just find myself pressing a button every couple of mins as they've started strobing again,

[Excalibur]

To control your panels, something like this is easy. I looked at one at BPM, and it was very impressive.
http://www.rygershop.co.uk/shop/article_37/FL-P1-DMX-LED-RGB-Fixture-controller.html?shop_param=cid%3D3%26aid%3D37%26

For the dynamos, many more options are available. I know nothing about the PC based ones, but a fairly basic controller would be fine.

[Ajaysdisco]

You can't possibly just say DMX is easy. It depends what sotware or hardware you are using, if you have any experience with it, what you want to do with your lighting, what lighting you are using etc etc
I was joking; sorry I should have phrased it better.



ok thanks for the info, so im guessing only wanting to use the one pc rules out dmx does it?

as for saying other options are sound to light, i do run the lights in sound to light any way linked master slave between the acme lights then seperatly linked the two xp1 panels, its mainly the acme dynarocks and dynamos that mis behave liking to strobe alot, thats why i bought the ca8 controller now i just find myself pressing a button every couple of mins as they've started strobing again,

If it helps have a read of this :) (http://seda-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/DMX-Seminar-Presentation-and-Notes.pdf)

[Supreme Soundz]

Thanks for the info the panels seem ok running master slave doing their own thing it's mainly the dynamos and dyna rocks, I attempted to download freestyler and have a play using the 3G simulation but.......that's as far as it went as only the dynamos are listed in the fixtures does any one know of a program that lists the xp1 abstracts and also the dynarock 250. :(

[Larry B Entertainment]

ok thanks for the info, so im guessing only wanting to use the one pc rules out dmx does it?


No, you could use a hardware dmx controller.

[Supreme Soundz]

Thanks for the link it dosent seem to work though:( what is a hardware dmx controller?,I don't really know ant thing about dmx,

[Excalibur]

Thanks for the link it dosent seem to work though:( what is a hardware dmx controller?,I don't really know anything about dmx,


Hardware controller. Big box with faders and buttons on. ;) Example here.
http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_dmxmaster_i.htm
As opposed to software on a PC or MAC.

[hypehype]

I use Freestyler it free and USB DMX.

I also use VirtualDJ and use the S2L plugin that controls virtualDJ.

If you use Freestyle DMX then with virtualDJ there is pretty much no extra load on the CPU

Have a look you might light it :D

[Happy Jack]

I use Freestyler it free and USB DMX.

I also use VirtualDJ and use the S2L plugin that controls virtualDJ.

If you use Freestyle DMX then with virtualDJ there is pretty much no extra load on the CPU

Curiously enough this was the exact arrangement we had for a time; via a decent system and stable OS, it is well within your means to multi-task this all out and run it off the same platform.

I would certainly consider a similar setup. The Enttec USB - DMX Pro dongle, Freestyler and some sort of MIDI control surface like a Korg Nanopad or Akai MPD26 as a means to playback what is programmed. Via MIDI OX you can also work around Freestyler's limitation and merge multiple devices into one 'virtual' yoke to cascade a number of controllers to suit whatever end. There are many fixture personalities in the Freestyler database, and the package comes with the fixture creator to allow you to make your own if needs be.

Enttec USB - DMX Pro
http://www.enttec.com/index.php?main_menu=Products&prod=70304&show=description

Freestyler DMX
http://users.telenet.be/freestylerdmx/

It'll offer you a lot more freedom for your money than the current range of budget hardware controllers once you are comfortable with the GUI and what it is you'd like to achieve. Yes you must invest the time, but the payoff is far more substantial. The support forum for Freestyler is an active and helpful community, there are many guides, so it may be a good place to start.

http://www.freestylersupport.com/fsforum/index.php

If you are after a 2nd system to isolate both playout and lighting, there seems to be an abundance of refurbished HP Proliant G2 and G3 1u / 2u servers on eBay for next to nothing. Perhaps a deep 2u sleeve from Swan or the like would be in order as well.

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/bargain-hardware/Servers-Components-/_i.html?_fsub=1856969010&_sid=121231090&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322

Maybe our man above can come back and elaborate a little on how he runs his setup or you can throw a few questions my way?

[Supreme Soundz]

Ideal this shines some light on my situation I think I Wouk defiantly like to use the one pc for both as suggested I want a MacBook any way :) I did the other day download freestyler, then spent three hours swearing as I was building my rig it appears only my dynamos are listed not the acme dynarocks :( or my abstract xp1 panels :( I started to build my own then got lost with the info I watched a tutorial as to how to build a rig and use the virtual show creator Thimbu but didn't succeed even with just two dynamos added do I need a dongle fo this to work? Thanks for the advice

[hypehype]

I tried with 3D to try it out first but it never worked.

When i connected my light worked perfect.

The link to that DMX is 5 pin you only need 3 pin.

Here is the DMX unit I have
http://www.maplin.co.uk/usb-controlled-dmx-interface-kit-46502

And works perfect.

I use a DMX y cable to split the signals i have 2 splitters on the link and works no problem I have 8 Lights fitted to the USB DMX.

Here is the Plugin I use for VirtualDJ
http://www.virtualdj.com/addons/12272/SBDJ_FreeStyler_S2L.html

I'm sure the creator of the plugin is on the forum as well.

Any other question you wanna no please just ask me feels like im shooting in the dark .

[Supreme Soundz]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/USB2DMX-JMS-USB-Interface-PC-Laptop-512-DMX-Channel-/160572902378?_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3D LVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8591195553974264861#ht_735 4wt_1062

how about one of these looks neat and tidy?

im using serato scratch live as my playout, ideal so look like this is an option then, providing my playout can cope im sure a mac will when i get one,

ive just gotta find out how to get the xp1 and dynarocks working off freestyler?

will i have to build all my own scenes or can i have it run sound to light throught freestyler telling the fixtures what to do?

[hypehype]

yeh just add the fixture and get the dmx number and link to your lights.

If you can make a video of what you have done so far I can have a look.

But that DMX to USB i have no idea sorry

[Happy Jack]

No worries. We are going through a period of trying to condense our setup, so as to be able to be left on 'semi-automatic' but with the essential controls for variation and speed at the press of a button or physical fader. The Behringer BCF3000 was another controller I considered; it couples wonderfully with Freestyler but then decided it was probably a little overkill for the 'essential' functions. The Akai LPD8 with it's velocity pads and pots, for example, allows the transmission of MIDI note and CC messages and represents a rather splendid low-cost small-format 'hybrid' for this purpose, that can sit alongside your PO console. Out the way. And with all the basic functions and sequences at hand.

On a budget and with this in mind, I would always recommend the combination of Freestyler and the Enttec DMX Pro dongle. Some sort of output device is essential, and the 'Pro' - rather than the 'Open' - is well worth the extra money as it built around a processor that generates the data stream and helps maintain it. It is also electrically isolated and generally considered to be a little more robust.

The 'Open' relies on your computer to do this so can be affected by the general overheads and CPU-intensive applications, causing jitters and drop-outs on a lower spec system. It is essentially a glorified USB to RS485 converter and so sends the audience into darkness if you crash, but both are compatible with Freestyler. It also leaves the way clear for you to migrate to MagicQ from Chamsys if you ever wish to, but I digress...

If you are struggling to create a profile for the Dynarocks and XP1's, I might be able to put together the .fxt files you need? Similarly, there are always requests via the support forums; they are common fixtures, so there is bound to be some info on there. Any other questions just ask; the MIDI OX 'hack' wasn't obvious to me before I began reading but is absolutely essential if you wish control from more than one MIDI device.

[Happy Jack]

Just seen the other replies. Sorry.


I tried with 3D to try it out first but it never worked.

In the absence of any fixtures in front of you, the Easy View 3D plugin is most useful. Again, seek advice from the support forum if you have any specific questions; I had no issues in installing the whole package and it has been very useful in dropping in room dimensions and sending off print-screens to the client when we have struggled to visualize the setup.



The link to that DMX is 5 pin you only need 3 pin.

No worries; pick up a barrel adapter or make your own punt if that is the case, although USITT DMX512A does indeed specify a XLR5 connector, despite the fact pins 4 and 5 are redundant. Anway, a few of these are always useful to carry.

http://www.stagelighting.co.uk/cable-distribution/control-cable/dmx-adaptors-0



I use a DMX y cable to split the signals...

Unfortunately, despite the fact it may work, this is something I would not encourage and is accepted as very bad practice. Nor 'should' I recommend using microphone cable, but few encounter any issues at this scale.



...providing my playout can cope im sure a mac will when i get one...

I'd sure it'll be fine, even with the 'Open' dongle. However, if you can afford to, the 'Pro' interface I suggested would be a sound (light?) investment. As our friend points out, though, there are a multitude of interfaces that work so it really is your call.

[Supreme Soundz]

Ideal ill have alook on the forum and search for abstract xp1 and also dyna rocks and c what I can find if I have no luck the help creating this file would be much appreciated as I really don't get thus dmx stuff at the moment, once I have the fixtures il try and create a mock of my rig in the 3d part as it's always set up the same with the sane fixtures (might need some more help here) thanks again for the help I will look in to the two dongles suggested and c what I think tho for ease o setup and less parts I'd prefer just a lead like in the link I posted

[Supreme Soundz]

ive just registered with the forum and re installed freestyler and the 3d thing appears to be working now, right so where do i start setting this all up for my fixtures, i tried building a 3d jobby but couldnt do anything with it as i havent really got a clue, do i need to build this virtual set up before i do anything else? ive searched the support forum for dynarock files and xp1 files and cant find anything either :(

[Supreme Soundz]

ive registered with the support site and had a good look using its search for the files for my xp1 and dynarocks and there isnt any topics on them :( so looks like im back to square 1, i uninstalled freestyler then reinstalled it again and the 3d visualiser seems to work now :), how do i go about starting to build a rig that resembles my mobile set up show in the original post, and i think i need some help creating the fixtures for the xp1 and dynarock, this appears to be such a mission thanks for all the help guys

[Happy Jack]

Excellent! I commend you for persisting, honestly. Once the penny drops you'll be flying and won't look back. I'm going to assume you are happy with the concept of DMX, despite the fact this is all relatively new. Else some of the terminology, the logic and workflow will be completely alien and may only serve to frustrate you. Similarly, certain things may get lost in translation.

The link Ajay provided from Will is a splendid introduction. There is also a sticky thread worthy of attention as he is one of the main contributors.

While it is a little late now, what I'll do if you have no success over on the support forums, is locate the manuals online for the Dynarock and XP1 and see if I can make up the .fxt files for you. I'll then try to replicate your setup my end and take screen shots as I go. If you intend you setup to remain fairly static, then this step by step approach should take you to where you want to be. Have you settled on an interface yet?

[Supreme Soundz]

thanks for the help happy jack i think i understand the theory of the dmx system all being serial connected with a different address for each channel, and each light having a group of channels assigned to it, and the varying signal value giving movement on the fixture, i used to do a lot of work with plc's in my previous job and managed to get my head around the logic of them,

im sure i will get the hang of it sooner or later it just seems daunting at first especially when half of my fixtures arent listed on freestyler, and also having to create the 3d image of my set too.


ive checked the forum out again and no replies and no joy searching for the files i need either :(

if you could possibly help me with the files and the 3d it would be awsome :) my rig at the moment is always set up as in the pic with 2 dynarock 250's on the outside, 2 dynamo 250's in the inside with the two xp1s attached to the tripods, im might later change these to par cans and have 2 behind me too instead but that will give me something to try and edit myself :)

as for the interface i still haven't decided to me space and equipment need to be minimal so im thinking just one of the lead type dmx to usb's what do you think? did i see the pro one recommended had a 5 pin socket if i did have to go down the little box route can i get one with a 3 pin xlr just to minimise having converters or dirrerent ended leads

once again thanks for the help

[Happy Jack]

i think i understand the theory of the dmx

Splendid. It certainly sounds that way.



if you could possibly help me with the files and the 3d it would be awsome

I'll get on the case over the next few days. If it is of any use, I'll try and put it together in some sort of guide if I have the time and update this thread with attachments as it goes along for the benefit of all. If not, and with your consent, we can use something like Teamviewer to 'collaborate' and I can harness control of your desktop while you watch and join in. I'll have to find my Skype headset for that one, I think!



as for the interface i still haven't decided to me space and equipment need to be minimal so im thinking just one of the lead type dmx to usb's what do you think?

I appreciate that. I would still recommend the Enttec DMX Pro with an adapter. I along with many others can vouch for the quality of the product. The one hypehype linked to, and the dongle you linked will both work, though, so it is up to you. Just ensure it is compatible with Freestyler before you commit to buy.



once again thanks for the help
Not at all. I'll keep you posted.

[Supreme Soundz]

ideal that all sounds fine thanks for the help

[Happy Jack]

A quick update. Plenty of literature about the Dynarock, but not an awful lot about the XP1 panel, I'm afraid. Would probably explain why there isn't much in the way of support for it...

Anyway, initial thoughts are that it is essentially red, green and blue colour mixing and a dimmer channel over four blocks, so 16ch. For the purposes of programming, it may be easier to split the four as individual fixtures - albeit within the same housing - rather than work into a single .fxt file...

The Dynarock is less of an issue, however the Easy View 3D visualisation software is incapable of rendering complex beam shapes and patterns AFAIK...

I'll keep this updated - I have some time this afternoon.

[Happy Jack]

Okay. Perhaps a little crude but the desired effect is achieved. My last response has yet to be approved, but what I mentioned there with regards to the XP1 seems to have already been address in Easy View. I've dropped in 8 of the 4ch panels, and also a pair of Eurolite LED PARs, just so show the difference in the rendered output and beam quality. The 2nd and 3rd images show this clearly with the ambient lighting all the way down.

To be fair I haven't really explored the limitations of this, but the whole suite was free so who am I to argue! I will elaborate a little once the scanners are up and perhaps begin to annotate the screens if it helps? Once it is altogether I will upload the show .fbf file, the Easy View .evs and the necessary .fxt fixture profiles so you can download all this your end, load it up, and see what I see. I did mean to attach the screens as they won't remain long in their current location, but I don't seem to have the ability.

So...

http://ivyproductions.co.uk/temp/1.jpg

http://ivyproductions.co.uk/temp/2a.jpg

http://ivyproductions.co.uk/temp/2b.jpg

[Supreme Soundz]

looking good ive just got back been away for the weekend, i might have the manuals for the xp1's somewhere if thats any use to make things easier, looks far better than my attempt with all the swearing involved too

[Happy Jack]

Excellent! I probably scaled it up a little to far if I'm honest, but it gives you a better idea.

I'm not sure how much time I'll have this week to get on it although I'll hold my hands and up say this has been the first time I've had a look at both the Easy View and Scan Library manuals in any real depth. While support for rudimentary multi-beam effects is included, I suspect Easy View is unable to render any animation. It'll make sense to program in the Dynarocks once you are able to have them react in front of you, hopefully by which point you'll be much happier with the software!

No need for the XP1 manuals. Programming the fixtures in way seems to yields much better results. If anyone can convince me otherwise I'll happily change up, but so far so good, I just could do with tweaking the .fxt files a little.

Will keep this updated, and will try and remember to screen-grab as I go along! How far along are you, Darren, have you settled on an DMX interface yet? Will give me some idea, at least, of how long I've got! If you can, I would also consider budgeting for something like the Korg Nanopad or Akai MPD26 as a means to trigger it all once it's ready to go.

[Supreme Soundz]

i think i will be getting the lead type dongle, and will be next month may at some poing when some cash come in, the 3d suite is looking good though :)

[Happy Jack]

Hey Darren, I have not forgotten what I have said. Have been rather busy this month, but I shall have a bit of time over the next few weeks to sit down again with Freestyler. Has your USB - DMX interface arrived yet?

I also notice you are looking to sell those XP1 panels, so I'd have to reshuffle this end. Let me know where you're at and I'll see if I can help?

[Supreme Soundz]

hi thanks for the reply only just noticed it the led pannels if sold will be replaced with the adj mega bars the 1m version so relitivly similar just half the width making more room in the wagon :)