Urgent genuine advice needed

[Charlie Brown]

Folks,

After serving me well - my DB sub died this evening (blown) at a School disco.

I need to buy something ASAP because I've got a good 12 gigs this month. I'm borrowing some decent subs for tomorrow night but with weddings etc in the pipeline, I need to buy something.

Will a RCF sub be okay with the two mackies?

Any links would be much appreciated.

Thank you in advance. :beer1:

P.S - This isn't me and my wishlist. I need a sub with those parrots. :sj:

[deltic]

rcf sub will be fine.

there is a good chap down watford way selling a pair of mackie swa1501's
£650 the pair or £350 each.

[WWDJ]

I use an RCF705AS with 2 x SRM450 no problem.

It's just a heavy blighter!

[Charlie Brown]

http://www.theaudioworksuk.com/index.php/rcf-705as-800w-professional-active-subwoofer-ex-display.html

Deal?

I've already got two mackies BTW

[Dynamic Entertainment]

http://www.theaudioworksuk.com/index.php/rcf-705as-800w-professional-active-subwoofer-ex-display.html

Deal?

I've already got two mackies BTW

Yeah good price...no wonder they are out of stock ;)

[wensleydale]

Without asking a stupid question Charlie why do you need a Sub?
My usual rig doesnt use one and I havent used one with any frequency for 15 years.
It's not as if your amp has blown.

[DJ Jules]

Just to point something out, most equipment in the class of good commercial PA kit (i.e. Active Subs, etc) can be repaired, and is usually more cost effective to repair than replace :D

Cheap amps however, are another matter ;)

Julian

[WWDJ]

Without asking a stupid question Charlie why do you need a Sub?
My usual rig doesnt use one and I havent used one with any frequency for 15 years.
It's not as if your amp has blown.

I reckon the mackies are good for about 60-75 people at most without a sub IMO. For a bigger or more dance/rnb crowd you need one .... Or compromise on a decent pair of active 15's which is where I'm moving towards. Less carriage overall.
Its just which ones to get ... RCF, Yamaha, EV , JBL ....

[hammy]

Its just which ones to get ... RCF, Yamaha, EV , JBL ....

It has to be JBL :sofa:

[Shaun]

Without asking a stupid question Charlie why do you need a Sub?
My usual rig doesnt use one and I havent used one with any frequency for 15 years.
It's not as if your amp has blown.

I tend to use a pair of subs all the time. I think the overall tone is just nicer, even at lower volume.



Charlie, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the RCF sub.

[wensleydale]

I tend to use a pair of subs all the time. I think the overall tone is just nicer, even at lower volume.



Charlie, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the RCF sub.

I agree entirely- it's a nice to have, but my point was that you can certainly do many gigs without.

[surround sounds]

I tend to use a pair of subs all the time. I think the overall tone is just nicer, even at lower volume.



Charlie, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the RCF sub.

Agree 100% i got 2 rcf 905as and sounds brilliant

[paulg]

Charlie - having had both DB's and RCF, without doubt, the RCF's will be a perfect match and they are not much heavier than the DB's. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the difference between them.

When you say you've 'blown' your sub do yo mean by pushing it hard or over driving it? If so, you might need two subs or a bigger 18" single? By the way, two smaller subs is probably better, my 18" are a hernia waiting to happen!

[Charlie Brown]

Okay,

It's been with my next door neighbour who is a bit of 'handy man' and has a lot of PA stuff.

He has tested the cone and fuses and everything is fine.

The unit is turning on as it should and the fan is ticking away....it's just not receiving any signal from the mixer. I've tried a variety of leads and two mixers.

What could this be? The power light is on but the signal light is dead and no sound is coming out. Everything looks okay inside - it's not damp or over heating.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Checked the in-chassis XLR connectors?

[Jiggles]

Sounds like a dry solder joint thanks to that lovely ROHS solder...

[Excalibur]

Checked the in-chassis XLR connectors?


Sounds like a dry solder joint thanks to that lovely ROHS solder...

Feasible explanations both, but as the resident prophet of doom, I'd guess that the protection circuits haven't been able to cope with Charlie's enthusiastic upward prodding of the faders, and the amp module is fried.

[deltic]

find it strange no fuses blown,i would have put money on the output transistors or possibly toroidal transformer,got to be something in the output stage.

not too hard a fix i don't think.

[Charlie Brown]

So what can I change/do? I'm rubbish at stuff like this. I might take it to DFB.

[Excalibur]

So what can I change/do? I'm rubbish at stuff like this. I might take it to DFB.

Well since you only possess one, you don't have the option of fault finding by substitution. ( swapping parts to find the faulty item )

Taking it to a repairer you trust looks like the only option.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

If he doesn't know Charlie then take it to someone that does, sure you have a local shop in the Notts area that can have a look or send it off to be repaired?

[Excalibur]

If he doesn't know Charlie then take it to someone that does, sure you have a local shop in the Notts area that can have a look or send it off to be repaired?

Ahem.


So what can I change/do? I'm rubbish at stuff like this. I might take it to DFB.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

he said might, I'm just giving him a gentle push towards that suggestion :P

[funkymook]

So 10 days since it blew, 12 gigs this month and it's still not in for repair?
I thought that would've been a priority.

[Excalibur]

he said might, I'm just giving him a gentle push towards that suggestion :P
Well in that case, shove harder. :D :D


So 10 days since it blew, 12 gigs this month and it's still not in for repair?
I thought that would've been a priority.

I'm guessing Charlie still has use of the borrowed subs? :confused:

[Charlie Brown]

Well this weekend it hasn't been necessary but it would be nice to have it back before the weddings kick in. I do have large subs that I can borrow if required.

I dont want to take it to DFB, pay them £xxx to tell me it doesn't work or the mother board has died and then have to buy a new one - if that makes sense? I bought it second hand for £350 - is it time to say goodbye?

[deltic]

i'll pay the carriage if you don't want it anymore ;)

[Excalibur]

Just to point something out, most equipment in the class of good commercial PA kit (i.e. Active Subs, etc) can be repaired, and is usually more cost effective to repair than replace :D

Cheap amps however, are another matter ;)

Julian


I dont want to take it to DFB, pay them £xxx to tell me it doesn't work or the mother board has died and then have to buy a new one - if that makes sense?
Charlie, did you read what Julian posted? If it's good kit, it's probably not BER. (Beyond Economical Repair. ) Why not ring DFB, and ask if they can fit a new amp module, since you think it's dead? If they say they's rather sell you a new one, then ask elsewhere.


i'll pay the carriage if you don't want it anymore ;)

Or Charlie could pay your train fare down to Nottingham to mend it for him. :whistle: :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Charlie Brown]

I'll give them a call today. Cheers me dears. :)

[Charlie Brown]

Will this be rubbish?

http://www.soundlightuk.com/shop/products/American-DJ-PXW-18P-powered-subwoofer.html

I have the cash ready to go if someone is selling one? My current sub has died - confirmed by a professional.

[Mark Wild]

Will this be rubbish?

http://www.soundlightuk.com/shop/products/American-DJ-PXW-18P-powered-subwoofer.html

I have the cash ready to go if someone is selling one? My current sub has died - confirmed by a professional.

I doubt you could even lift it Charles tbh at 69kg

[Charlie Brown]

I doubt you could even lift it Charles tbh at 69kg

Is that heavy?

I'm quite weak. TBF - I struggle with a Acme LED boogie. :o

[Spirits High]

Is that heavy?

Not for Geoff Capes!!




I'm quite weak. TBF - I struggle with a Acme LED boogie. :o

Are you for real? Acme Boogie is 3.5kgs

Think you need to hit the weights rather than town in that case :D

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Its more than twice the weight of the DB Sub 15D

[Mark Wild]

Is that heavy?

I'm quite weak. TBF - I struggle with a Acme LED boogie. :o

Yeah it's quite a lump for you mate, look for something under 40 kg I'd say.

http://www.whybuynew.co.uk/dj-equipment/dj-speakers/mackie-srm1801-powered-subwoofer.htm

[Charlie Brown]

Do you use this Mark?

[Excalibur]

Will this be rubbish?

http://www.soundlightuk.com/shop/products/American-DJ-PXW-18P-powered-subwoofer.html

I have the cash ready to go if someone is selling one? My current sub has died - confirmed by a professional.

Charlie, did you ever do maths at school? :confused: Have you looked at the weight of the behemoth? Nearly 70Kilos!:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
That's a full two man lift, and it will be effing awkward to move.

Personally, I'd go for passive subs, but since you're an active kinda guy, I'd go for a couple of smaller actives. Since they're up against Mackies, I might even be inclined to suggest 12" subs for portability. I'll have a look round later.

[Mark Wild]

Do you use this Mark?

I use the ones you've just killed that are discontinued, I've heard the Mackies though and they give enough thump for what you'd need it for I should think.

http://www.mackie.com/Products/srm1801/pdf/SRM1801_SS.pdf

[Charlie Brown]

Thanks Margaret. :)

[Excalibur]

I use the ones you've just killed that are discontinued, I've heard the Mackies though and they give enough thump for what you'd need it for I should think.



Discontinued? I don't know if these are what you're referring to. 32Kilos, a one box solution.
http://www.decks.co.uk/products/db_technologies/SUB15_D

27Kilos, quieter, probably a one box solution.

http://www.decks.co.uk/products/db_technologies/SUB15_D

19 kilos, a tad dearer way of doing it, but I'd strongly consider two of these, since Charlie isn't built like Geoff Capes.

http://www.decks.co.uk/products/db_technologies/sub_12

Listen before you buy Charlie. ;)

[Mark Wild]

Discontinued? I don't know if these are what you're referring to. 32Kilos, a one box solution.
http://www.decks.co.uk/products/db_technologies/SUB15_D



No mate these are the ones I'm referring to -

http://www.decks.co.uk/products/speakers/sub_15

[Excalibur]

No mate these are the ones I'm referring to -

http://www.decks.co.uk/products/speakers/sub_15

Ah. Then I think I'm correct in saying yours are the older ones, and the ones I linked to are the new digital ones.Aren't I? :confused:
Curiously both the same weight. :confused: I seem to remember some folk who were not happy with the Digital ones output.

Charlie, Listen first.

[Mark Wild]

Ah. Then I think I'm correct in saying yours are the older ones, and the ones I linked to are the new digital ones.Aren't I? :confused:
Curiously both the same weight. :confused: I seem to remember some folk who were not happy with the Digital ones output.

Charlie, Listen first.

Yes the older ones, I've also always wondered how the new ones with the digital amp are the same weight, there has been a few guys saying the output is rubbish on the new digital ones yes, but the spec reads Max SPL: 133 dB which is the same :confused:

[Excalibur]

Yes the older ones, I've also always wondered how the new ones with the digital amp are the same weight, there has been a few guys saying the output is rubbish on the new digital ones yes, but the spec reads Max SPL: 133 dB which is the same :confused:

Then I too am confused. Thanks Mark.

[Sapphire Disco]

How about putting one of these under your deck stand ?

http://www.thomann.de/gb/hk_audio_premium_pro_210_sub_a.htm

[Charlie Brown]

I'm not sure whether that would be sufficient?

[WWDJ]

Charlie, sounds like you are getting plenty of work in so why not make the investment in one of the RCF Subs.

http://www.rcf.it/en_US/products/pro-speaker-systems/art-7-series/art-902-as
130db, £999, 27kg (single man lift, think Mackie V1's plus a little bit)

http://www.rcf.it/en_US/products/pro-speaker-systems/art-7-series/art-905-as
131db £1049, 31kg (again single man, and lighter than my 705 that I can manage on my own)

Both of these would fit under your booth I think assuming you are not using the second shelf and put out plenty of bass.

On paper the 905 goes deeper as you would expect from a 15" vs a 12", but the 12" is still pretty tasty at 130db.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I heard the 902 a couple of months ago being used by a tribute band and it is very good for the size of the box.

[Charlie Brown]

I don't mind paying RCF prices but what's the difference between that and the Mackie one?

Surely bass is bass? How can there be different quality's of it? Tops - I completely understand but bass just goes 'boom'

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Well put it this way Charlie

I love my Mackie tops, wouldn't touch a Mackie bass bin.

If you need a bass bin then either get your butt down to some demo rooms or buy a suggestion from this thread.

I still love my DB sub and the mackies sound awesome when used with them.

[DJ James Lake]

Well put it this way Charlie

I love my Mackie tops, wouldn't touch a Mackie bass bin.

If you need a bass bin then either get your butt down to some demo rooms or buy a suggestion from this thread.

I still love my DB sub and the mackies sound awesome when used with them.

I agree I use the same combination. Mackie SRM450 mk2 Tops and 2 DB Sub15d subs.

The Mackie sub is too underpowered compared to the DB's

[paulg]

I don't mind paying RCF prices but what's the difference between that and the Mackie one?

Surely bass is bass? How can there be different quality's of it? Tops - I completely understand but bass just goes 'boom'

Producing consistent longer wavelength frequencies is actually quite difficult.

I gather that RCF's tend to be European sourced and built whereas cheaper subs might be made entirely in China or be constructed in the EU but from potentially inferior Chinese components. RCF's are made in Italy and it's fair to say you are paying a little extra for la dolce vita enjoyed by our European counterparts.

I've tested all of the non Touring RCF sub range, I've had DB's, HK Audio and some years ago, Carlsbro. I've wasted some money in that time! From expereince and without doubt, the RCF's are worth a punt. You just can't go far wrong with them. Good performance, good build quality, lightweight (you can lift them with one hand!), sensible appearance, respected brand name etc.

A single 12" would perhaps be a bit weak if you like a solid and full bass. I wasn't over impressed with them but it really depends on taste. I quite possibly use a little too much bass at times. A single 15" would be pretty much perfect - a very compact jack of all trades, but it might get a bit out of its depth in larger venues. A single 18" will suffice for just about anywhere that can be served by your tops. However, they could be too heavy to lift safely if you work alone.

I reckon if you took the plunge and bought the RCF 15", you'd be a happy man.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Put it another way Charlie...

I was working with a cabaret singer and backing act about 6 months ago...i had my RCF tops and both of my RCF 705AS subs...they had Mackie SRM450 tops, and a pair of the 1801 Mackie subs....mine blew them out of the water sound wise...so much so that when i worked with them last month...they had sold their Mackies (on the back of that night 6 months ago)...and gone for RCF.

They had considered just flogging the Mackie Bins and sticking with the 450's as tops with RCF bins...but decided a full RCF rig was in order. They had gone for the 905 bass bins, and 712 tops.

Make of that what you will ;)

[paulg]

Put it another way Charlie...

I was working with a cabaret singer and backing act about 6 months ago...i had my RCF tops and both of my RCF 705AS subs...they had Mackie SRM450 tops, and a pair of the 1801 Mackie subs....mine blew them out of the water sound wise...so much so that when i worked with them last month...they had sold their Mackies (on the back of that night 6 months ago)...and gone for RCF.

They had considered just flogging the Mackie Bins and sticking with the 450's as tops with RCF bins...but decided a full RCF rig was in order. They had gone for the 905 bass bins, and 712 tops.

Make of that what you will ;)

..................a little off topic but i took a booking only yesterday for a 50th wedding anniversary from a customer and some of his guests who used to be pro singers in groups in the 50's and 60's because he'd seen names like RCF on my website. It's a gig I'm really looking forward to - lots of proper mature singers who just want to plug in their guitars and mics and enjoy themselves playing stuff like the Bachelors (I saw them 3 years ago and they were still pretty good!), the Fortunes & the Hollies. Hopefully, it will be rare pleasure.