Combining Active Tops And Passive Subs

[Roger T]

In the very near future I'll be moving to 12" active speakers from my 15" passives. It's going to be a while before I can afford a new active sub so how can I combine my current Peavey passive subs and amp with active speakers?

I'm sure it's straight forward but the old grey matter can't figure out the cabling for it.

[Corabar Steve]

How are you set up at the moment (with your all passive set up)?

[Roger T]

Mixer left and right out to Behringer EP2000. Amp left and right out to Peavey subs then out from the subs up to the 15" tops.

[Sapphire Disco]

Easiest way would be if you have more than one type of output on your mixer.

[Roger T]

The mixer is a Pioneer DJM 5000. It has master and zone output xlr connections.

[chrisj]

I use RCF 725 15" active tops and Tannoy T40 15" or B475 18" passive subs.
Cd into mixer into Behringer EQ which has Sub output as well as left and right output for full range. I reduce the bottom frequencies with the EQ that goe into the actives and sub out to a Yorkville AP4040 amp 750w rms into my subs. Sounds great and I have never had to drive the system anywhere near full power.

[Roger T]

I use RCF 725 15" active tops and Tannoy T40 15" or B475 18" passive subs.
Cd into mixer into Behringer EQ which has Sub output as well as left and right output for full range. I reduce the bottom frequencies with the EQ that goe into the actives and sub out to a Yorkville AP4040 amp 750w rms into my subs. Sounds great and I have never had to drive the system anywhere near full power.

Sounds good (no pun intended), I've had a look and the Behringer EQs are reasonably priced so that'll be the plan for me.

[Supreme Soundz]

or the most simple option would be to run from your mixer to the active tops, then run an xlr from the output on each top back to the amp and connect the subs as normal. im guessing they have got crossovers in them to cut the mid high? as you ran straight from the amp to them before, then up to the tops

i was going to sugest run mixer.. amp... and then run from the thru outs of the amp to the speakers but after googling the said amp it dosent have any?

option 2: run the active from master on the djm and then run as u did before but connected to the zone outs on the djm the amp and two subs then you have the master vol for the tops and zone vol for the subs.

i dont see the pont spending money that could be saved for subs on a crossover unit when you wont need this once you have active subs :)

[Roger T]

or the most simple option would be to run from your mixer to the active tops, then run an xlr from the output on each top back to the amp and connect the subs as normal. im guessing they have got crossovers in them to cut the mid high? as you ran straight from the amp to them before, then up to the tops

i was going to sugest run mixer.. amp... and then run from the thru outs of the amp to the speakers but after googling the said amp it dosent have any?

option 2: run the active from master on the djm and then run as u did before but connected to the zone outs on the djm the amp and two subs then you have the master vol for the tops and zone vol for the subs.

i dont see the pont spending money that could be saved for subs on a crossover unit when you wont need this once you have active subs :)

Good options there thanks and I like the bit about not spending anymore money.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Which active speakers are you using Roger?

[Excalibur]

Blimey lads, what's wrong with the easy option? Buy an active crossover, hi out into tops, low out into subs, job done.
http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=BEHCX2310

[Supreme Soundz]

call me thick but i dont think that is the easy option,the op suggested he was saving for subs so wanted to make do with his passive subs for now, i dont see why buying another bit of kit would be easier when he has all the equipment to connect it up in either of the suggested ways? and at no cost? :)

[Excalibur]

call me thick but i dont think that is the easy option,the op suggested he was saving for subs so wanted to make do with his passive subs for now, i dont see why buying another bit of kit would be easier when he has all the equipment to connect it up in either of the suggested ways? and at no cost? :)

Well for one thing, he'll be running the tops fullrange. Some folk like to do this, it depends on the kit used. Also, it will give him control over the relative volumes from the crossover, a feature I often make use of with my rig. It will allow him to vary the crossover point to fine tune the rig.

As for running cables back to the amp from the tops, yes, undoubtedly it will work, but we're introducing yet another set of cables to the speakers, and in my book, actives already have one too many. ( Cue someone suggesting the all in one solution - lash a signal cable to a 50Hz mains. The idea which goes against the perceived wisdom of separating them as much as posssible )

In my book, best, simplest, but not cheapest is active crossover.

[yourdj]

Why not keep the passive tops and buy an active sub with sattilite out.
Dave 12 and RCF art 310 - very cost effective option.

I have been using this combination for some time now and are completely satisfied:

http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop_image/uploads/Image/ld-dave-10-g2-back-lrg.jpg

http://www.musik-service.de/images/prx/395751709/i00.jpg

[Excalibur]

Why not keep the passive tops and buy an active sub with satellite out?



Err Toby, that is the stated aim of the OP. As stated in the initial post. Clearly.

Reason for not doing so yet?

£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

Blimey, I got slated for suggesting fifty quid on a crossover. Can you get what you advised for fifty quid? :confused:




i was going to sugest run mixer.. amp... and then run from the thru outs of the amp to the speakers but after googling the said amp it dosent have any?

Just liike mine don't, but they work fine. Even though they say input, usually they can be daisy chained.

[CRAZY K]

Well for one thing, he'll be running the tops fullrange. Some folk like to do this, it depends on the kit used. Also, it will give him control over the relative volumes from the crossover, a feature I often make use of with my rig. It will allow him to vary the crossover point to fine tune the rig.

As for running cables back to the amp from the tops, yes, undoubtedly it will work, but we're introducing yet another set of cables to the speakers, and in my book, actives already have one too many. ( Cue someone suggesting the all in one solution - lash a signal cable to a 50Hz mains. The idea which goes against the perceived wisdom of separating them as much as posssible )

In my book, best, simplest, but not cheapest is active crossover.

A good point about full range on tops----my Peavey tops PRO 15s can sound a bit toppy when using with the sub and built in crossover--wouldnt worry normally--but I have to stand right in front of them when doing Line Dancing and its definitely earache and ear ringing territory:eek:

The Peavey UL15s on their own being high power full range give a much more pleasant experience for me but not as much bass--not that anyone would probably notice;)

[Happy Jack]

Darren, although your suggestion is workable, I'd have to agree with Peter here for the reasons he has explained. The OP has implied that he'd need to make a purchase to make the arrangement work anyway...


...the Behringer EQs are reasonably priced so that'll be the plan for me.
...so a dedicated unit like the CX2310 would, no doubt, yield better results and at less cost than the FBQ3102 graphic that would be required.

And regarding the 'thru' or 'link' outs on the amp, using the product over sum method and ensuring the 10:1 load impedance ratio is observed, one can passively split the output of the mixer several times without the need for an actively distribution amplifier. Using Y splits in this instance - and with reference to a recent thread - is absolutely fine.

Have we yet learned what cabinets the OP is using?

[Digital Jack]

Or , depending on how your new active tops sound , get by without the subs for the time being ?????

[Roger T]

I plan on buying a pair of QSC K12s. I've watched countless You tube videos on different 12" actives and read forum reviews etc and they seem to fit the bill for me.

I will be visiting DJ Kit in Newbury to listen to them and any other 12" actives they have before buying of course.

The weight of my current speakers (Gemini GX1501s) and amp is what I want to get away from. Plus of course the new speakers will sound so much better.

[Andy Goodtimes]

I tend to agree with Peter too. If you are splashing out on some QSCs then a cross-over unit is a small cost in relative terms....try to get one worked in with the overall deal as you will be a good customer. It really depends what your bins are but to restrict the bass frequencies to the tops would be preferable but in the case of the QSCs not essential. It might even be good because depending on the bins you may get a deeper more sub kind of bass and in the case of the QSCs you will get a much faster more tighter punchier bass. I do a similar thing sometimes for big band PAs whereby I use 2 pairs of double 18 Turbo Sound bins and 2 pairs of little 12 inch RCF 902 mini bins and it really does work very well as various instruments require different treatment in order to sound at their best.

If you are going to run them full range then either use the 2 outputs on the mixer...pair of XLRs to the tops and pair of XLRs to the amp, that way you have a degree of control at your finger tips. Or, link the pre-amp signal from the amp to the tops and the post-amp from the amp to the bins in the usual way.

[Excalibur]

I plan on buying a pair of QSC K12s..

Ah. Right. The o9ne speaker which blows my advice out of the water. ;) I have no idea why, but it's well documented here and elsewhere, that if you're using these, take the signal into them first, and back into the subs from the QSC's. It defies logic, but that's the perceived wisdom. I'm fairly sure our illustrious leader found this himself, though I can't be bothered to search for it.

With the intentions you've outlined, the most important piece of advice to remember is to " Try before you buy". It's of paramount importance in this case, and if at all possible, I'd recommend taking your peaveys along to run alongside the QSC's and see how it sounds, and whether different wiring setups alter the sound.

As to using the QSC's without subs, I think that's unlikely to be a runner. I'm told they're more of a HiFi sound than a Disco sound, so I'm fairly sure you'd need subs.

Please keep us posted on developments.

[Supreme Soundz]

i found this thought defying combo recently on here after running my k10s from my k sub theirs a topic here somewhere? else i wouldnt have thought of that suggestion? so if their k12's id do exactly that run mixer k12's then run a xlr back from each to your amp then connect your subs as normal you wont need a x over if u set the k12's to ext sub it will cut the bass from the tops and add it to the thru output :).