Dragon's Den - Wireless Sound Operated Lights

[leelive]

I think Alex from PhilharmonicLights missed a trick with his lights on the Dragons Den.

Surely they would be better used as uplights (mood lights)

It looked liked they were battery operated.
A unit that needs no power cables would be so much easier to set up.

I am looking at buying some uplights. Read some threads and am thinking of getting 10 LEDJ colourbursts. But I would also need to buy heaps of power cables to adapt to the sizes of each venue.

Would prefer a battery operated unit.

For those that missed the show here is the youtube video of his wireless sound operated lights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMnwHshiHgM
Lee

[Alchemy]

Interesting. I presume from your post that the Dragons didn't invest (I haven't watched it yet). They would indeed make superb uplighting, how powerful are they and how long would a typical charge last? Also are they mega expensive?

[leelive]

On the show he said the unit shown cost £150 to produce. I have emailed the chap for a quote - he says he can build modified versions to order. So I will expect it to be cheaper for our purposes. I will ask him for 100 units to see if a bulk order for all of us will bring the price down considerably.
Lee

[Ecstatic Events]

he says he can build modified versions to order. So I will expect it to be cheaper for our purposes.

I agree! If he could build a modified UPLIGHTER. I think he would be on to something and would make some serious coin.

I'll be interested to hear pricing.

[leelive]

I agree! If he could build a modified UPLIGHTER. I think he would be on to something and would make some serious coin.

I'll be interested to hear pricing.

just found some battery powered uplights for £250 each. These look pretty good. 8hour run time per charge.
http://www.terralec.co.uk/led_par_ca...d/31233_p.html
I have created a poll on the Scottish Wedding Directory Forum to see if there is a big demand for uplights... might have to invest at some point.
Lee

[DiscoMagic]

I'll be interested to hear pricing.

Me too!!!!

[Shaun]

I watched this last night when it was on.

I'd be interested to know more about the technical side of how it works. Apparently it works wirelessly with a range of up to 10 miles. It also boasts no limit on how many fixtures. If there is an unlimited amount of fixtures that can be added it sounds like this could be something different to DMX (which by definition has a limit to the amount of fixtures)

If this is a completely new protocol the Dragons may have indeed missed a trick.

[Ecstatic Events]

If this is a completely new protocol the Dragons may have indeed missed a trick.

I completely agree. I think the language/dialect barrier (along with his presentation skills) prevented him from explaining the product in laymans terms to the Dragons. OK Granted, they are all super intelligent, but I dont think any of them really got it :confused: :confused: :confused:

Unless, we as DJs and people that are on that level thought the product was more advanced than it is???

[Corabar Entertainment]

Just a little 'problem' with this idea that Steve mentioned as soon as he read this thread: it would be very easy to pinch the lights!

The thing that also struck me was the 8 hour run-time. I don't know about anyone else, but uplighting is most often used for us for weddings, and they are in there all day and all night, so they would be likely to run out before the night was through.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I liked the guy and really warmed to him but he was so nervous I wouldn't take the costing price as 100%. Plus you have to remember from the Dragons point of view the market for this is fairly small.

Plus with the increase in cost for the fixtures do you think your clients will pay extra?

[Cowlinn]

I don't think Mobile DJ business' was his target audience... Wasn't he selling it to huge events, festivals and shows?

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Which already have lights installed or being a fixed installation wouldn't really benefit from the wireless aspect. Plus don't you think as Angela says they would be likely to be stolen at such events?

[Cowlinn]

Which already have lights installed or being a fixed installation wouldn't really benefit from the wireless aspect. Plus don't you think as Angela says they would be likely to be stolen at such events?

I think the pinching problem is their biggest issue, if the can overcome that I can see festivals and the like taking it up.

As you say shows may have permanent installations but festivals could easily use these.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

It was also clear that the chap hadn't tested this through surfaces either and claimed "there was no need for this because you wouldn't see the lights" which I disagree with.

[Cowlinn]

It was also clear that the chap hadn't tested this through surfaces either and claimed "there was no need for this because you wouldn't see the lights" which I disagree with.

I agree, I wonder what the range is like without direct line of sight?

[katman]

8hour run time per charge.

I wonder what the test conditions are. Laptops often say upto x hours run time but its very dependant on usage.

In the case of these parcans I would suggest that the colour would seriously alter the run time.

eg
Red, Green or Blue = just one set of LEDs on so only 33% of maximum current

Cyan, Magenta or Yellow = two sets of LEDs so 66% of maximun current.

White = all LEDS on.

If the "8 hours" is for White then it could be substantially longer depending on colour. If its for a single colour then using White could result in a dramatically reduced battery life. Also at 12kg each they arent exactly lightweight.

I would also guess you need to make a special flight case with the chargers built in so that you can just plug a lead into the flight case instead of having to get them all out and on the bench!

[flatliners]

Wouldn't mind seeing other colours than red green and blue

[leelive]

Wouldn't mind seeing other colours than red green and blue

You can create any colour from RGB.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB_color_model
Lee

[Jiggles]

Bit with LEDs using PWM the maximum number of colours you can get is 16.5million. 255 255 255. Number of steps per channel thus each step being a different colour.

[leelive]

I just got a reply from the chap.

It really isn;t going to happen.

He needs investment.

I recommended seeking a licence agreement with one of the big players like ADJ, Acme or KAM.
....
Here is his reply

Oh... sorry Lee for late response this has been absolutely crazy, people recognise me on the street, yelling from the car...”ALEX I LIKE YOUR LIGHTS!” in restaurant, street...
It is good will not last long but nice memories will left as I done once J (forget bad ones)
More important plenty excellent contacts..., e-mails which I could not answer any more...
I saw that you started Blog, Thank you for that...I have been completely shattered after I saw myself in Dragons,... cannot believe I did not manage to explain anything...

Maybe web can help ... www.philharmoniclights.com but now is to late, lost opportunity on Dragons and I now need to explain case by case what I meant, which direction I want to go etc...

I thought that people would tear me apart after my “Performance” on Dragons, could not sleep all night after, but seem to me that they forgive my embracement performance and they understand that is more than just another Meerkat dot com

Any way it is help when I saw yours Blog as this is best support for me as you give positive note...

My problem is that I cannot compete by Chinese with Price and mass production.Mass production where price I can have low is usually connected with high investment to be able to produce in mass...Then someone copy you in Chine and that is it ... you are out with so much effort invested.

I try to hit one large customer or set trend with suitable person someone in entertainment industry.Making large customises system for them (from my presentation you can find more)...

What you ask is great and I probably you will be responsible that I will do soon or later something any way in that direction, but not at this time.Great as you give me clear indication that this is good business opportunity, many ask similar. My lights are designed for short effect but I could adapt to be for longer as long as you need (just large battery depends how long and how powerful light should be).
More importantly, you can have much more then steady lights, make effect with music not seen everywhere, very practical for use, one button only per song or effect, I have for example thunder...

I find only way to set 36 reflectors and even sound system possible and practically wirelessly without any wire power or signal. My first prototype is with 36 wires and central system used only ones after I make mess with the wires, everything end in the bin with frustration...I acted like mine 7 year daughter with tantrums)

Just to let you know, that every light has intentional sensor and any movement until remotely instruction will send via your remote controller alarm on and if lights is moved (if someone try to nick) signal is WE strong transmitted from moved light and can go miles, sending unique information so you can know which number is moved. As you know where you left light number x (signal receive on your remote on the display number X) better rush to that direction, you will find occasionally excuses oooh...sorry I just look at it J
However, not missing lights. You can track light with direction antenna by miles, again remotely I never try that never I had situation, so I not even carrying any more that direction antenna just standard receiver with numbers.

Nevertheless, Price for all that features, long lasting powerful light cannot be low cost as material dictate price.

You can have Lights to last days if you want and power which ever you want everything depend of battery capacity and Price...

Tell mi minimum requirement just to think together with you what will be minimum requirement and what is maximum accepted price.(don’t think about price for you, just what you think that other will buy, I will try to see if that system can be made and maybe you can sell for me and use for your own need, but I need to tell you that at this moment I not have time to develop those just to make some calculation and plans for future when I have more time to do if we find that can be acceptable by price if we find minimum acceptable system with right price for the market)

Best Regards For now
Alex
PhilharmonicLights

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Hats off to that informative reply and it is a shame but Theo did say "There have been some great inventions that have made no money"

[Cowlinn]

Anyone have any idea on how much they cost?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Anyone have any idea on how much they cost?

Did you read his email to Lee?

[Charlie Brown]

Did you read his email to Lee?

I did (with great interest) but couldn't see/find a price?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I did (with great interest) but couldn't see/find a price?

You obviously didn't read the email as he asked Lee the kind of prices he would be expecting to pay etc....

[Cowlinn]

You obviously didn't read the email as he asked Lee the kind of prices he would be expecting to pay etc....

All I got for it is that It cannot be as cheap as the china rubbish, and that it cant be low cost?


Nevertheless, Price for all that features, long lasting powerful light cannot be low cost as material dictate price.


What am I missing? :D


I think he's saying he's not selling to the general public, which is a shame. If someone could come up with something similar that sells for around £50 per fixture I think they'd be on to something. I'd certainly place an order for some.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

If you read the email, he was asking Lee his requirements so he could get prices for him.

[Charlie Brown]

for around £50 per fixture I think they'd be on to something. I'd certainly place an order for some.

:confused:

I thought you were selling up? :lol:

I doubt they'd ever come in at £50...more like £120ish a fixture.

Sorry, I was too busy looking for a pound sign.

[Cowlinn]

I doubt they'd ever come in at £50...more like £120ish a fixture.

Sorry, I was too busy looking for a pound sign.

Lol, same.

Even £120 a fixture would still be semi affordable to the masses.

[leelive]

If you read the email, he was asking Lee his requirements so he could get prices for him.

I'd originally asked him for quotes for 100 and 200 units. But as soon as he mentioned that the battery life is very short I knew I wouldn't be able to afford to buy a unit with a longlife battery. The LEDJ event panel with an 8hour battery is £250 (same as the similiar one quoted above). So I expect his unit to cost a lot more. Hence the reason I simply recommened licencing the product to a major player.

Lee

[leelive]

Anyone have any idea on how much they cost?

I imagine around £400 a unit. He said £150 to manufacture on the show. So add on a large battery for £250.

I think I will be best getting 10 of these and stick a colour filter on them . They are only £55 each.
American DJ Pinspot LED BP
http://www.soundsavers.com/images/112/112/10290.jpg
Lee

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Just come across this

PhilharmonicLights Demo (Southend on Sea) - YouTube

[Charlie Brown]

For those that missed the show here is the youtube video of his wireless sound operated lights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMnwHshiHgM
Lee


Just come across this

PhilharmonicLights Demo (Southend on Sea) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMnwHshiHgM)

:daft: :daft: :daft: :daft:

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Opps! :D

[Jiggles]

This is more the idea that people here are thinking. http://apelabs.de/en/node/286 you can do two things with it. An amazing fountain effect or a normal bog standard uplighter. 14 hours off one charge, wireless dmx etc Cost a bit though sadly.

[welby]

Personally, I like the thought of wireless lighting, and battery technology is moving in the right direction.

If I was Lee I would employ the skills of a suitably qualified marketing person, that could clearly communicate the direction he want's to take the product.

No disrespect, but I got lost and bored after reading two sentences of the email.

Good Luck.

[Corabar Entertainment]

This is more the idea that people here are thinking. http://apelabs.de/en/node/286 you can do two things with it. An amazing fountain effect or a normal bog standard uplighter. 14 hours off one charge, wireless dmx etcThey're nice! Some beautiful photos in their gallery
Cost a bit though sadly.I dread to ask.... what's 'a bit'?

[leelive]

This is more the idea that people here are thinking. http://apelabs.de/en/node/286 you can do two things with it. An amazing fountain effect or a normal bog standard uplighter. 14 hours off one charge, wireless dmx etc Cost a bit though sadly.

Wow! They a beautiful!!
Found more photos and product info here:
http://www.recordcase.de/cgi-bin/cosmoshop/lshop.cgi?action=showdetail&artnum=0020105959&source=froogle&PID=Froogle_UK&ls=e
I would buy 10 of these. But would seriously have to chain them to the floor as they would go for a walk!!
Lee

[Corabar Entertainment]

They aren't actually as much as I thought they'd be - approx £360 each.

[Jiggles]

I dread to ask.... what's 'a bit'?


For 10 plus a special charging flightcase for them will set you back about £8000 + VAT. For a single one it's £550 + VAT. But Thomann are selling b stock ones for £300!

Yeh they are more expensive by far if you buy them from the uk distributor! Nothing new there then!

[leelive]

For 10 plus a special charging flightcase for them will set you back about £8000 + VAT. For a single one it's £550 + VAT. But Thomann are selling b stock ones for £300!

Yeh they are more expensive by far if you buy them from the uk distributor! Nothing new there then!

Ouch! Think I'll save up for a new car instead.
Lee

[Chris1984]

interesting thread.

Currently the event industry is using the GDS litware range of wireless battery uplighters http://www.gds.uk.com/gds-products/liteware they are expensive at around £800 mark but better than any other i have come across. see this video http://youtu.be/oIbYqdh943I

Not really sure about the dragons den ones as in the demo video and the den show all the lights are static colours and dont seem to change? Now this might be down to lazy programming but if you were making a demo video and a show to gain investment dont you think colour changing would feature in it?

The system dosnt have a place in the pro world at all. As he has said its a new control system which would mean it isnt DMX thurs rendering them useless on any big show. nor do they last a long time and they look ugly.
This new control system doesn't do anything not already being done and i would imagine doesn't have the ability to accept timecode be it midi smtpe or any other industry standard.

As someone who does alot of shows to music on very large scales i really cant see there being anything new, exciting or usfull in this product.
BUT for the mobile disco world would they do what you want? maybe but they are still ugly and made in a fellas shed!
there are already many products out there that look smarter do the same and are cheaper.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

there are already many products out there that look smarter do the same and are cheaper.


Care to enlighten us to a few products? Bearing in mind we are generally small disco operators on here :)

[Chris1984]

i have seen some somewhere just need to find it! will google

[Chris1984]

http://www.terralec.co.uk/led_par_cans_/led_par64_battery_powered/31233_p.html

seems to do the job - not the ones i had seen but i belive can work from a remote control.

[leelive]

http://www.terralec.co.uk/led_par_cans_/led_par64_battery_powered/31233_p.html

seems to do the job - not the ones i had seen but i belive can work from a remote control.

Getting a sense of deja vu now.....

[Chris1984]

Getting a sense of deja vu now.....

??

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHAUVET-SATELLITE-D-FI-DMX-WIRELESS-CORDLESS-BATTERY-DJ-/120635750056

cant seen to find the units i had seen but the above looks intresting