MC6000 XLR Leads

[MikeW]

Hi Guys

As you may know, I have been questioning the sound quality coming out of my Mackie SRM450s. I am looking at new speakers/subs at the moment.
I have just had a quick look on the Denon Forum, which got me thinking about XLR Leads.
On the denon Forum it says:Things to look at re sound quality:

@ The XLR leads - are they correct balanced/unbalanced, and not mic xlrs or DMX lighting XLR leads.

On a different forum: Just connect each channel output on the mixer to each input on the amp with normal balanced XLR mic cables

I purchased these:Adam Hall 1 metre XLR to XLR Microphone Cable: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
Just in case the link doesn't work, they are described as Adam Hall 1Mtr xlr to xlr Microphone cable.

My question is, am I using the wrong type of xlr cable. Could this be where the slight distortion is coming from on some tracks?
Could someone give me a link to the correct cables?

[Alchemy]

The XLR cables that I use from mixer to sub, and sub to Mackies are also marked "mic". As far as I know there is no such thing as a designated XLR "speaker" lead. The only problem I have ever had was when my external sound card (DJIO) developed a fault and caused crackling when ever I had the monitor button on and I moved the mouse. Swapped it for my spare and everything was good again.

[MikeW]

The XLR cables that I use from mixer to sub, and sub to Mackies are also marked "mic". As far as I know there is no such thing as a designated XLR "speaker" lead. The only problem I have ever had was when my external sound card (DJIO) developed a fault and caused crackling when ever I had the monitor button on and I moved the mouse. Swapped it for my spare and everything was good again.

Thanks for that, it was just Denon saying not to use mic cables that got me thinking that I should possibly change, to rule those out as possibly causing a problem.

[katman]

The only designated "XLR Speaker" cabes are those which predate Speakon cables when XLR was also used on amps and speaker cabinets for the speaker leads. You definately do NOT want this as they are unscreened heavy gauge 2 core cable.

XLR DMX leads are twisted pair screened cable with a characteristic impedance of 120 ohms optimised for high speed data transfer.

For all other XLR Audio connections they use audio grade twisted pair cable. There is NO difference for mic or line level connections. The only difference is that some cable may be specifically called mic cable as it is designed to be more flexible due to the movement it endures in use. This is perfectly suitable for playout to mixer, mixer to amp, mixer to active speaker connections.

[Excalibur]

The only designated "XLR Speaker" cables are those which predate Speakon cables when XLR was also used on amps and speaker cabinets for the speaker leads. You definately do NOT want this as they are unscreened heavy gauge 2 core cable.

XLR DMX leads are twisted pair screened cable with a characteristic impedance of 120 ohms optimised for high speed data transfer.

For all other XLR Audio connections they use audio grade twisted pair cable. There is NO difference for mic or line level connections. The only difference is that some cable may be specifically called mic cable as it is designed to be more flexible due to the movement it endures in use. This is perfectly suitable for playout to mixer, mixer to amp, mixer to active speaker connections.


Chapter and verse. Thank you.


Right, let's throw a spanner into the works. Young Twinspin has recently purchased a 6000, and on the one occasion I was priveledged enough to press play on it, we ran John's laptop through the internal soundcard, and mine through the DJIO into the other two channels. I thought the Numark card compared well to the Denon's, which later on got me to thinking. Rather than doing this in the heat of battle, while trying to entertain punters, wouldn't it be enlightening to have a sound card test?

Set up a machine with the internal card, then run laptops with different cards on the other two channels. I reckon we'd learn a lot if we ran the acknowledged class of the field, a Maya/Gigaport, against the internal card. Food for thought? :confused:

On a not dissimilar note, if I'd only realised it, we did much the same thing on mine and Justin's fabled Mackie/Class D shootout. We ran my playout through the Mackies, and almost every permutation possible of the assorted Class D's, and noted the results. At the end, Justin suggested that we might run his playout into the Class D's, in case my playout rig of CD's and KAM mixer was different to his Laptop/mp3/cheap USB mixer.

It was! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: The Class D's came alive!

What I didn't realise was that my mixer was just about :Censored: in the tone control circuitry. Shame, cos I loved that mixer, it did everything I wanted, including being suitable for karaoke. Since moving to the Denon 500, my sound quality has increased beyond belief.

[hammy]

Mike, In all the threads you have done about the sound quality you are getting you still have not said what program you are using on laptop and also how you have it set up, A few of us had sound issues with the mc6000 but got them sorted.

[MikeW]

Mike, In all the threads you have done about the sound quality you are getting you still have not said what program you are using on laptop and also how you have it set up, A few of us had sound issues with the mc6000 but got them sorted.

Thanks Guys. Thanks Hammy. Sorry, I thought I had said I was running via VDJ.
As far as set up is concerned, I think! It is set up ok. What I am not sure about is, I have heard guys talking about sample rate, and increasing buffer size??? This is getting a bit technical for me, and as far as I know the whole thing is running as default factory settings.

[Excalibur]

Thanks Guys. Thanks Hammy. Sorry, I thought I had said I was running via VDJ.
As far as set up is concerned, I think! It is set up ok. What I am not sure about is, I have heard guys talking about sample rate, and increasing buffer size??? This is getting a bit technical for me, and as far as I know the whole thing is running as default factory settings.

Mike, I'd look through the old threads on this. From what little I know, VDJ isn't a "Plug and Play" option, it requires tweaking on the 6000.

[MikeW]

Mike, I'd look through the old threads on this. From what little I know, VDJ isn't a "Plug and Play" option, it requires tweaking on the 6000.

Thanks Peter, I will do

[MikeW]

Bit of an update. The distortion I have been hearing at loud volume at a gig, I also hear through the headphones.
I have just set the mixer up in the house and running via my iPad and also via my iPod,with no laptop/virtual DJ involved I am still hearing the distortion through the headphones. Would this suggest that it is the mixer,rather than the VDJ software?
Daft question: do the iPod/iPad go through the asio driver if the laptop is not involved?

[Alchemy]

Looks like the Mackies are in the clear then :) Have you tried slightly increasing the ASIO buffer a touch?

edit: If you're not using the laptop you won't be accessing the ASIO driver so ignore that. Must be the Denon.

[MikeW]

Looks like the Mackies are in the clear then :) Have you tried slightly increasing the ASIO buffer a touch?

Is that something I would do via the laptop,sorry if a stupid question. And if so why am I hearing the distortion with no laptop involved? Thanks for your patience :)

[Alchemy]

Sorry, I edited my post while you were replying. The ASIO settings are changed via the laptop (I use Traktor and they are accessed in Audio Setup) but you are right, if the distortion happens with your ipod I think it must be down to the MC 6000.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Set up a machine with the internal card, then run laptops with different cards on the other two channels. I reckon we'd learn a lot if we ran the acknowledged class of the field, a Maya/Gigaport, against the internal card. Food for thought? :confused:



I do that every gig. My back up netbook is fed through a Maya EX and the Denon soundcards are definitely louder and have a more rounded sound IMO.

[MikeW]

Looks like the Mackies are in the clear then :) Have you tried slightly increasing the ASIO buffer a touch?

edit: If you're not using the laptop you won't be accessing the ASIO driver so ignore that. Must be the Denon.

I am coming to the conclusion that I am asking the speakers to do too much. Any speaker must have it's limits? This all started when I was playing slightly larger venues and requiring a bit more volume.
I am in a smaller venue on Friday night. I will see if there is any improvement.

[Alchemy]

I am coming to the conclusion that I am asking the speakers to do too much. Any speaker must have it's limits? This all started when I was playing slightly larger venues and requiring a bit more volume.
I am in a smaller venue on Friday night. I will see if there is any improvement.

Thought you said you got the distortion through the headphones from your ipod?

[MikeW]

I do that every gig. My back up netbook is fed through a Maya EX and the Denon soundcards are definitely louder and have a more rounded sound IMO.

That's interesting, the Denon sound cards are louder? That is possibly why I only started hearing the problem when I got the Denon. The problem wasn't, there with my old citronic mixer because it possibly didn,t have the volume to overdrive the speakers?

[MikeW]

Thought you said you got the distortion through the headphones from your ipod?

I do, via the mixer. My point was that at a gig I knew what tracks would distort on the speakers because I could hear them distorting on my headphones when the volume was turned up.

[katman]

In that case something early in the audio chain is set too high and is clipping. reduce the levels at the earlier stages and see if that improves.

If its distorted on the headphones then no matter how low you set everything from the fader forwards, it will still be distorted at the speakers.

[MikeW]

In that case something early in the audio chain is set too high and is clipping. reduce the levels at the earlier stages and see if that improves.

If its distorted on the headphones then no matter how low you set everything from the fader forwards, it will still be distorted at the speakers.

Thanks for that. I wil give it a try.

Just wondering, anyone else with the MC6000. What happens if you turn up the volume on your headphones to 100 percent. Do you get distortion?

[katman]

Just because a knob will go round to a certain position doesnt mean it should. Its possible to hit the maximum level before you reach the maximum position and increasing the gain any further will only introduce distortion.

Modern equipment has much more gain than in the past and at the same time modern equipment has much higher output levels than it did historically. Combine the two and there is massive potential for distortion and destroyed equipment.

Your VU meters are your best friend. Set individual gains so that when you PFL they arent contantly in the red but just peaking at it occasionally, likewise for the main mix, dont drive it into the red.

Just because none of the controls are anywhere near maximum doesnt mean that you still have loads of power in reserve, you could already be near maximum undistorted output.

[MikeW]

Just because a knob will go round to a certain position doesnt mean it should. Its possible to hit the maximum level before you reach the maximum position and increasing the gain any further will only introduce distortion.

Modern equipment has much more gain than in the past and at the same time modern equipment has much higher output levels than it did historically. Combine the two and there is massive potential for distortion and destroyed equipment.

Your VU meters are your best friend. Set individual gains so that when you PFL they arent contantly in the red but just peaking at it occasionally, likewise for the main mix, dont drive it into the red.

Just because none of the controls are anywhere near maximum doesnt mean
that you still have loads of power in reserve, you could already be near maximum undistorted output.

Thanks for that. As I have said, I think I am (on a few occasions) asking a bit much of my system to cope with the size of venues I am playing. I really don't think I have problem with the mixer, or even the way it is set up.
Any distortion was happening when I was starting to go into the red.
I guess it is just me getting used to a new piece of equipment.
Would also like to say that I have never used the mixer with the lights in the red for any length of time. Although it has clipped occasionally.

[Gary]

A quick note on the Gain Structure idea (which is a great idea btw). Some, if not all, "DJ" software has gain controls within it. I've spoken to some guys who have found that their softwares had the software gains set up to maximum as the default (whether thats a default of the software, or the skin, or a midi-mapping thing...??? thats a variable). I guess that its a popular setting for bedroom DJs who want to make their 30watt speakers sound like 50 watt speakers. :-)

But, check the "DJ" softwares own internal gain controls - if the sound is too hot at that stage...you wont be able to un-hot it (I made up a new word there) later on in the path.

[Charlie Brown]

What kind of venues are you using the Mackies for? How many people are attending?

I've got a large charity function coming up - 400 guests, that's going to put them to the test. :eek:

[MikeW]

What kind of venues are you using the Mackies for? How many people are attending?

I've got a large charity function coming up - 400 guests, that's going to put them to the test. :eek:

The Mackie's are fine for approx 150 to 180 guests IMO. After that they would need a bass bin or two.

I am now using QSC K12s, I am hearing an improvement in sound quality, but the same thing would apply as above.

[JOHN BARRY]

I was using my dnc6000 on Sat. night and some of the tracks on my computer started to jump like an old fashioned vival 7 inch,didnt happen on all songs,any body any clue to why

[Excalibur]

I was using my dnc6000 on Sat. night and some of the tracks on my computer started to jump like an old fashioned vival 7 inch,didnt happen on all songs,any body any clue to why

In my very humble and fairly ignorant opinion, I'd suspect a soundcard setting. On occasion, mine reverts to a setting where everything runs slowly, and I have to reset it to cure the problem.

Hopefully someone well versed in the matter will be along soon.