Need a Disco

[Excalibur]

Unfortunately with that track record he is one of the herd, why should he be rated any higher when he's hardly had any bookings or feedback from NaD customers? What's validating his status?



OK,let's put it another way. What's invalidating his former status? Has he had any negative feedback? No. Has he changed his policy of dealing with customers to their detriment or displeasure? No. Why can't he be considered "innocent until proven guilty" ? He's now lost what could be seen as a valuable tool for reassuring prospective customers that they're dealing with a high class operator, and had it replaced with one that alleges he's no different from all the rest. Still doesn't seem fair to me.

[funkymook]

OK,let's put it another way. What's invalidating his former status? Has he had any negative feedback? No. Has he changed his policy of dealing with customers to their detriment or displeasure? No. Why can't he be considered "innocent until proven guilty" ? He's now lost what could be seen as a valuable tool for reassuring prospective customers that they're dealing with a high class operator, and had it replaced with one that alleges he's no different from all the rest. Still doesn't seem fair to me.

But a quick trawl over previous threads reveals lots of comments to the effect that the DJ Mark is meaningless as anyone can get it - which was actually close to the truth. So it's not that a robust process is being replaced, but a more robust process is being put in place.

Of course we all know Andy operates at a level high enough to satisfy any client - but there's certain criteria that NaD require that only getting 1 gig every two years is unlikely to fulfil. It is harsh, especially when people like Andy are effected, but as I said before, whatever you do someone will always be just below the qualifying mark and feel it's unfair, there's no way around that.

[Ryu]

But a quick trawl over previous threads reveals lots of comments to the effect that the DJ Mark is meaningless as anyone can get it - which was actually close to the truth. So it's not that a robust process is being replaced, but a more robust process is being put in place.

Of course we all know Andy operates at a level high enough to satisfy any client - but there's certain criteria that NaD require that only getting 1 gig every two years is unlikely to fulfil. It is harsh, especially when people like Andy are effected, but as I said before, whatever you do someone will always be just below the qualifying mark and feel it's unfair, there's no way around that.

But isn't the DJMark supposed to be about setting standards within the DJ industry, not just setting standards within the enquiries received via NAD? Like Excalibur puts it, as much as DJ Mark is an accreditation, the flip side of that is, as far as customers to NAD are concerned, if you don't have one, you are lesser a provider in general. Maybe making it more explicitly a rating achieved ONLY when dealing with NaD enquiries, and making that clear to customers would lessen this.

[Andy_Stag]

My own experiences of need a disco - which I have since opted out were the leads seemed to come through in waves (as if someone every now and then sat down and spammed the site), all without fail were in obscure venues 20 - 30 miles away, no local ones. Very few gave a phone number, and those that did seemed very vague when called, or just dismissed me having already got a dj. The emails i returned with quote etc I never got a reply from any in the whole year.

I'm not insinuating theres anything underhand, but my impression was that the site was being missused either by customers or other dj's trying to sound out the competition. The few genuine enquiries seemed to be wanting the dog's for buttons !

[CRAZY K]

My own experiences of need a disco - which I have since opted out were the leads seemed to come through in waves (as if someone every now and then sat down and spammed the site), all without fail were in obscure venues 20 - 30 miles away, no local ones. Very few gave a phone number, and those that did seemed very vague when called, or just dismissed me having already got a dj. The emails i returned with quote etc I never got a reply from any in the whole year.

I'm not insinuating theres anything underhand, but my impression was that the site was being missused either by customers or other dj's trying to sound out the competition. The few genuine enquiries seemed to be wanting the dog's for buttons !

I can understand your frustration--but unfortunately thats the sort of thing we have to put up with every single day here with Internet enquiries---

And thats often paying x per pop on Google adwords to deal with morons:daft::daft::daft:

[DJ Jules]

You know the saying "there's no such thing as bad publicity"...?

Off the back of this thread, despite the negative opinions being voiced, I've just joined up to see if I fair any better and I notice a few other familiar names from this forum in the "recent additions" list...

I do think that the trick with any kind of accreditation scheme is making it hard enough to qualify to make the top awards meaningful, while still keeping the criteria within bounds that are achievable. That's not easy, especially when people are prone to cheating ;)

Julian

P.S.


And thats often paying x per pop on Google adwords to deal with morons

At least I get paid to do this in my day job ;)

[Vectis]

OK - let's try to answer a few of these points without spamming MDD :o I shall refrain from responding directly to points concerning Andy's relationship with NaD.


Whilst I can see the reasoning behind what Martin is saying about the service from a customer's point of view, I do think it's a shame that a service that promotes higher standards in the industry makes decisions that appear to alienate an operator like Andy Neen whose professionalism is undoubted and his desire to raise the quality bar led him to being a founder of member of the North East & Cumbria branch of NADJ.

DJmark has always been reviewed and updated on an annual basis to respond to customer requirements and slowly increase the barriers to entry and progression to indeed promote higher standards. All changes are announced a minimum of 2 months in advance. All members who have documentation/proof due to expire are notified one month prior to expiration and in the case of proof points which have third party input (PLI, PAT certs etc.) a one month grace period is allowed after expiration for updated docs to be uploaded.



From looking at this thread, it would appear that a lot of DJs, that have commented here, are not getting the leads / securing the work through NAD that they now need to able to get the necessary feedback to progress up NAD's ratings ladder.

Hand in hand with the change surrounding testimonials was a big focus on improvement in the process of collection of customer feedback. We're now receiving feedback for over 80% of jobs placed through the sites whereas previously this was 20-30% at best. Sadly not all is positive, and that's another bugbear with some members and has led to a few sudden departures ... but in my mind that's a good thing.



Martin, you've stated that the feedback criteria changes were brought in because "it's demanded by clients and users of the service", however, have you actually asked your DJ users what their needs are or is this really driven more by the "consumer"? I ask this as I find it hard to believe that DJs have asked for these changes when many of them are finding it hard to secure the work that is needed for the appropriate feedback in the first place. Why would they then want to make it even harder to get the gigs by having a lower rating?

Can I first clarify that "demanded by clients and users of the service" relates to the collection and validation of feedback and not to the recent change in what is acceptable for a Gold, Platinum or Diamond DJmark.

Within NaD there are essentially two 'levels' of membership - those without a DJmark and those with a DJmark. The actual mark itself is somewhat irrelevant - having a DJmark of any kind (Silver included) opens the door to premium enquiries and inclusion on premium directories in the group. This does not change as one improves their award type UNLESS a client requesting quotes specifically states that they only want quotes from Gold/Platinum etc. which is fairly rare. The type of award is only relevant to the member's own marketing. It does not affect ranking on the site (except Diamond which can improve ranking slightly) so being a Silver award holder over any of the 'higher' awards makes very little difference to "how hard" it is to receive leads via the site.



I wonder if it might be helpful to allow "historic" feedback, so that people like Andy aren't penalised.

Members are welcome to send suggestions which are always considered when we hold our regular planning meetings.



the client has sent me feedback instead of doing it via NAD so no golden testimonial for me

The client is sent a (link to a) simple multiple-choice questionnaire shortly after their event (timing depends on event type - weddings we leave a bit longer to allow for honeymoons) - with follow-up reminders every 8 days for 4 weeks. As stated above, this has resulted in over 80% of jobs now receiving feedback. The multiple choice takes 2 minutes to complete.



So we are being penalized for clients writing to us directly.

Surely, if the job was won from nad, and the client sends us a nice testimonial - surely that could be sent in and counted as a golden testimonial as nad could easily verify the legitimacy of such a testament?

Only NaD understands the costs of operating the site and the level of membership fees which will be tolerated. We also have lots of experience of third parties being narked about being approached for feedback validation, even to the point of having spam and harrassment reports made against us. All contributing factors which led to the feedback assessment changes. From 1st October this year all feedback validation will only be undertaken on work processed fully via one of our sites, end-to-end. No exceptions.



People were complaining it was too easy to get Gold or Platinum and the DJ Mark was worthless, that's now being addressed.

Indeed, hence the regular (annual) review.



The levels have to be based on something and there will always be people who in theory should be graded higher but in practice aren't. Wherever you draw the line it will be unfair to someone.

The voice of reason as always :)



But isn't the DJMark supposed to be about setting standards within the DJ industry, not just setting standards within the enquiries received via NAD?

No, DJmark is about rewarding DJs who demonstrate that they operate within the boundaries of the law, accepted industry best practice, and have a history of customer satisfaction.

All that is being debated here is how that is assessed.



My own experiences of need a disco - which I have since opted out were the leads seemed to come through in waves (as if someone every now and then sat down and spammed the site), all without fail were in obscure venues 20 - 30 miles away, no local ones. Very few gave a phone number, and those that did seemed very vague when called, or just dismissed me having already got a dj. The emails i returned with quote etc I never got a reply from any in the whole year.

I'm not insinuating theres anything underhand, but my impression was that the site was being missused either by customers or other dj's trying to sound out the competition. The few genuine enquiries seemed to be wanting the dog's for buttons !

I can assure you that we go to great lengths to detect and block misuse. I'm not going to detail how, because that would be counter-productive, but we regularly publish stats in the member area which ought to provide reassurance that, within reason, the vast, vast majority of enquiries are properly vetted and error checked prior to distribution to relevant members. I have the feeling from your statement, Andy, that your membership was some time ago. NaD is a living site, unlike most, with full-time staff monitoring, developing and improving it regularly. Maybe it's time to try again?

[DJDC]

But isn't the DJMark supposed to be about setting standards within the DJ industry, not just setting standards within the enquiries received via NAD?

No, DJmark is about rewarding DJs who demonstrate that they operate within the boundaries of the law, accepted industry best practice, and have a history of customer satisfaction.

I've been on NAD for a couple of years now. I have had a silver mark for the vast majority of the time of my membership. I have everything in place with one exception feedback. Over the last 12 months I had put time into following this up, most of my work has traditionally been cover for other DJ's. So whilst I do everything to operate within the boundaries etc etc.... Feedback the missing element, I do get good feedback but mostly this has been received by the DJ who I have covered for, so feedback does not always reach me. I've also been going for 29 years and I have increased my own source of work this year, but still coverevents for other DJ's but don't formally work for anyone, I just don't promote myself when covering these events.

I have converted 1 booking to a job last year but never received any feedback, this year I've converted 2 the first again no feedback and the second was covered last saturday (a week later than originally booked). I don't know whether I'll get feedback again, as the client was not happy with the number of people who atttended the party, and the level of stress of the whole experience. (this was also the reason why which should have been Saturday before). It also did not help that the client ommited to tell me that they changed the venue when they rescheduled. I was sat at the other venue for 40 minutes sending emails (as it was a suprise party) in the end I opted to text her and got a response informing me they were now 2 miles away! She had not updated the event planner and when I had a text 2 days prior I had confirmed that I emailed her to reconfirm the previous day, she never gave me an idea the location had changed Fortunately I had given myself plenty of time so was able to locate the venue and get there for the time the venue was opened. The upshot is I will be suprised if there is any feedback. I secured this job as I think was the only bidder, andwhilst within the suggested price range it was more than they wanted to pay.

I've one other booking but I've got to way 260+ days before I can get any feedback to infuence a different rating. At least with the old system I had provided 3 recent feedbacks and clients had told me they were happy to confirm this with NAD if required. Downside was only one had responded before the system changed.

I end up like many others I know who use NAD, can't generate enough work from conversions in order to influence a different outcome.

[Mission]

Been with NAD since February this year and had 2 bookings whilst on Silver but nothing since being on Gold. So not making alot of difference at the minute getting that gold testimonial.

I am more concerned about the more that join NAD the more quotes are going to a client and the odds of getting a booking, even more hard (already hard enough). I would hope for a cap to areas.

[Vectis]

I would hope for a cap to areas.

With a lead response average of 5.6 and 488 leads so far this year not getting a SINGLE response, I don't think that's likely to happen just yet.

Rather than thinking about caps, the focus is on increasing the number and quality of leads received to better service a growing membership.

[DJ Jules]

With a lead response average of 5.6 and 488 leads so far this year not getting a SINGLE response, I don't think that's likely to happen just yet.

I think there are some leads that are never going to get a single response no matter how many DJ's you get on the site. Like the ones asking for a "Budget DJ" to work "6:00pm until 1:00am" for "Max £200". On New Years Eve??? :D

Julian

[Excalibur]

Like the ones asking for a "Budget DJ" to work "6:00pm until 1:00am" for "Max £200". On New Years Eve??? :D


Where's that? If it's within 100 miles of me, that could be profitable. You'll never get that sort of money round here. ;)

[SoundONE]

LOL, Not seen any like that, the majority of leads I see seem to be quite consistent, there have been a few that the suggested price seems a little low, but if your worth you price, then quote what you would normally quote, that's what we do, win some loose some. I get those same people call me on the phone and I quote them exactly the same as the leads on nad and off they go to find Sid. But I think the system as a whole works very very well, it's certainly the best of it's kind and Vectis obviously does a lot of work behind the scenes keeping it all updated and checking everything manually.

So a big thumbs up to Vectis. If your not getting responces to the leads and you feel you should be, then maybe you need to look at the way you are contacting the customer and tweak it a little. Think about what would make you choose you over other DJ's.

[DJ Jules]

LOL, Not seen any like that, the majority of leads I see seem to be quite consistent

Sadly that was my first from NaD... the ones since then have all been within the usual price ranges.


there have been a few that the suggested price seems a little low, but if your worth you price, then quote what you would normally quote, that's what we do, win some loose some. I get those same people call me on the phone and I quote them exactly the same as the leads on nad and off they go to find Sid.

As you say, I'm sure the system is just mirroring the general range of enquiries you would get away from the site.


But I think the system as a whole works very very well, it's certainly the best of it's kind and Vectis obviously does a lot of work behind the scenes keeping it all updated and checking everything manually.

I agree - it is certainly the best system I have seen so far with only Google's adwords as an exception. :D Certainly the tools provided to me as an advertiser are very good. My only criticism so far is that the age ranges are a bit vague - e.g. 0-6yrs, 16-21yrs so I tend to find myself asking a lot of questions in the first contact with the customer.


If your not getting responces to the leads and you feel you should be, then maybe you need to look at the way you are contacting the customer and tweak it a little. Think about what would make you choose you over other DJ's.

Now, this is where it gets interesting. I've been struggling to adapt my standard email pitch to customers to suit these leads. I usually start by thanking the customer for their contact, but in NaD responses I can't do that because they didn't specifically target me or my business. Instead I've been opting for a paragraph introducing myself and my business and stating that details of their party have been sent to me via NaD. I then talk about their specific function, and then either give a price or ask questions to get to a price. I then finish with any other comments or observations I can make about their function if possible (if I'm bidding above their budget I point this out and justify my price, or I talk generally about what I can bring to their party) and then I close by giving my contact details and saying that if they have any questions they should feel free to get in touch.

What do other people do when they get a contact from a site like this? It's mainly the first few paragraphs I'm interested in - how do you make a good introduction, get the reader interested and differentiate yourself from Spam? :D

Julian

[Mission]

With a lead response average of 5.6 and 488 leads so far this year not getting a SINGLE response, I don't think that's likely to happen just yet.

Rather than thinking about caps, the focus is on increasing the number and quality of leads received to better service a growing membership.

Increasing the number of quality leads would help as these tend to get responses around the 10 plus.

Just got first booking under gold, a local one, so I think that's why on that.

Overall happy with the service. If willing to put in a lot of time to keep responding to the leads, it is another avenue to get a few bookings.

[minty]

Increasing the number of quality leads would help as these tend to get responses around the 10 plus.

Just got first booking under gold, a local one, so I think that's why on that.

Overall happy with the service. If willing to put in a lot of time to keep responding to the leads, it is another avenue to get a few bookings.

What do ineed to do to win a booking on NAD.....getting about 10 inquiry's a week and have been for the last few months and getting fed up with responding to clients and not getting a sniff!!!....think I'm just going to quote each one at £60!!!!:daft: i might get some work then!!:rofl:

[Ryu]

What do ineed to do to win a booking on NAD.....getting about 10 inquiry's a week and have been for the last few months and getting fed up with responding to clients and not getting a sniff!!!....think I'm just going to quote each one at £60!!!!:daft: i might get some work then!!:rofl:

I feel your pain. I'm gonna to quote £60 too....









For a 30 minute disco ;)

[Vectis]

What do ineed to do to win a booking on NAD.....getting about 10 inquiry's a week and have been for the last few months and getting fed up with responding to clients and not getting a sniff!!!....think I'm just going to quote each one at £60!!!!:daft: i might get some work then!!:rofl:

Why not start a thread in the business help section asking for folks to critique your standard responses?

I've participated in a few exercises like this and even though I thought my originals were pretty good I did get some tips which helped even more with the conversions.

[Shaun]

What do indeed to do to win a booking on NAD.....getting about 10 inquiry's a week and have been for the last few months and getting fed up with responding to clients and not getting a sniff!!!

You're not alone. I use a similar style response to NAD enquiries as I do to direct queries and the conversion ratio are poles apart. So I don't think my responses are the issue.

I'm not saying good paying gigs aren't achievable on NAD, as I know of one or two people that have gained them. No such luck for me I'm afraid though. I'll keep on keeping trying though.

[Shaun]

Why not start a thread in the business help section asking for folks to critique your standard responses?

I've participated in a few exercises like this and even though I thought my originals were pretty good I did get some tips which helped even more with the conversions.

I had some great help on another forum doing this, and a great deal of help from you personally in this respect Martin (which I am am hugely grateful for and indebted to you for). Unfortunately it didn't make any difference at all with the needadisco leads, sadly. Perhaps I need to change my deodorant? Maybe that's my problem. :d


I'm still optimistic though. The law of averages dictates I must have some luck at some point. Half glass full. :)

[minty]

I had some great help on another forum doing this, and a great deal of help from you personally in this respect Martin (which I am am hugely grateful for and indebted to you for). Unfortunately it didn't make any difference at all with the needadisco leads, sadly. Perhaps I need to change my deodorant? Maybe that's my problem. :d


I'm still optimistic though. The law of averages dictates I must have some luck at some point. Half glass full. :)

Or empty in my case:eek:

[DJ Jules]

So far I've replied to about 10 enquiries since I joined up a week ago. So far one response:

"Dear Julian,

Thank you for taking the time to email a quote. Unfortunately we will not be taking your quote forward as we have been offered a number of more competetive quotes from elsewhere.

Thank you again.

Kind regards"

My quote was £285.00 for a 6hr disco that is an hours drive from home - e.g. more than competitive for a wedding!! I know this probably reflects the state of the market in general, but it's very frustrating.

Julian

[funkymook]

Half glass full. :)




Or empty in my case:eek:

Or the wrong size glass....

[Shaun]

Or the wrong size glass....

No, the glass is a perfect size. I'm certain of that. Perhaps it's that I'm sitting here waiting on fine wine to be poured into it, when the bar mostly has lager.

[Excalibur]

No, the glass is a perfect size. I'm certain of that. Perhaps it's that I'm sitting here waiting on fine wine to be poured into it, when the bar mostly has lager.

Lager? Lager? You'd never get that round here. Lucky if you get Adam's* Ale. :(



* No, it's not a typo for Adnams. Google it.


So far, most of the ones I've quoted for have been over an hour's drive away, with a guide/previous high price a long way under the one Julian sugggested. If I get one, you'll hear about it.

[CRAZY K]

So far I've replied to about 10 enquiries since I joined up a week ago. So far one response:

"Dear Julian,

Thank you for taking the time to email a quote. Unfortunately we will not be taking your quote forward as we have been offered a number of more competetive quotes from elsewhere.

Thank you again.

Kind regards"

My quote was £285.00 for a 6hr disco that is an hours drive from home - e.g. more than competitive for a wedding!! I know this probably reflects the state of the market in general, but it's very frustrating.

Julian

I suppose it depends how you approach quoting against lower priced outfits.

Here we tend to talk openly about the let down rate in the Barn Dance and Rodeo Bull market from cheapjacks and the phone calls from the desperate people up to 5pm on the day who we cant help.

Obviously this may not be the approach you wish to take but we get a bit pig sick here of hearing about "other more competititve quotes"

What does that mean exactly--I dont suppose the client knows in reality--the perception of the punters is cheapness is competititve---thats something that may need addressing?

Just a thought.

[DJ Jules]

Obviously this may not be the approach you wish to take but we get a bit pig sick here of hearing about "other more competititve quotes"

You're not the only one. I also get sick of hearing "we'd really like to use you, but everyone else has quoted around £x - can you do it for £y?"


What does that mean exactly--I dont suppose the client knows in reality--the perception of the punters is cheapness is competititve---thats something that may need addressing?

Agreed, I'm sure that from the client's point of view "competitive" = "lowest price" and they're not considering "value for money" as part of the equation. I make a big point in my responses of saying that I know I won't be the cheapest, but that I pride myself in providing quality which is important -especially for a wedding where they only get one shot at it. The above was the customers response, so clearly that doesn't factor into their equations.

Julian

[Ryu]

Get in. Landed one.

And at a price I'm comfortable with!

Woop! :D

[Dynamic Entertainment]

my feedback comes through DJEP and when sent to NAD was promptly sent back and refused as it did not contain the client email address,re submitted with valid email address's and lo and behold the system changed.

Now i will admit to not getting the biggest pile of feedback or testimonials from clients,this is due to the fact a high proportion of customers i work for,i either know personally or have worked for for over 30 years spanning sometimes 3 generations of the same family and they know exactly what i do and who i am.

i never expected to gain much if any work from the NAD site and was quite happy to look and pick through the leads,and have a bid for the ones i fancied and was quite happy to pay my money and support the site,however when the new feedback system came in and penalised my good name i felt it could have an impact on the way potential customers saw my business,after trying to work things out with vectis i took the decision to terminate my listing on the site.

I fully understand what vectis has changed and why,although i see it to be grossly unfair on genuine operators like myself,it is at the end of the day his choice to operate the NAD site how he sees fit and implement/change as much of the criteria as he deems necessary,i certainly have no hard feelings towards him and wish him well,at the moment the way the award criteria stands it just isn't for me.

and like me current members of NAD have a choice fulfil the current criteria.......or opt out.

I am very much in the same boat Andy. I'm not winning work through NAD...primarily because I'm too expensive (I suspect), but clients who have came direct have mentioned the DJ Mark logo listed on my website.

Now I'm in catch 22...I cant get the next level up because I'm not getting the work through the site to generate a possible golden testimonial. I suspect the only way to do it is to drop my quoting for the odd gig, but that's not something I can afford to do, and hope I get a golden testimonial.

Some clients obviously see the scheme with some weight, so at what point does it adversely affect my business?


The wording does me no favours either....



Aspects not considered

Improved level of positive feedback
Improved level of negative feedback


Reads as though my positive feedback can be improved (issue covered above) and that i have negative feedback against me that needs improving!!!

[Excalibur]

Get in. Landed one.

And at a price I'm comfortable with!

Woop! :D

I'd settle for anyone actually acknowledging receipt of my emails. Martin, your customers are lacking in the social graces. Politeness costs nothing. :D:D

[Jonathan Ford]

I'd settle for anyone actually acknowledging receipt of my emails. Martin, your customers are lacking in the social graces. Politeness costs nothing. :D:D

Amen to that, Brother Fisher.

[deltic]

I am very much in the same boat Andy. I'm not winning work through NAD...primarily because I'm too expensive (I suspect), but clients who have came direct have mentioned the DJ Mark logo listed on my website.

Now I'm in catch 22...I cant get the next level up because I'm not getting the work through the site to generate a possible golden testimonial. I suspect the only way to do it is to drop my quoting for the odd gig, but that's not something I can afford to do, and hope I get a golden testimonial.

Some clients obviously see the scheme with some weight, so at what point does it adversely affect my business?


The wording does me no favours either....



Reads as though my positive feedback can be improved (issue covered above) and that i have negative feedback against me that needs improving!!!


that was the point which laid heavy with me,especially the artwork changing to read references expiredon my website, but the biggest thing really was finding myself in the same catch 22 situation of never being able to improve feedback to gain a higher dj mark which i previously held,the only thing to change was martin moving the goalposts, certainly my level of service and commitment hadn't altered, but looking at my website a potential customer could easily have got the impression it had.

the solution for me was to terminate my listing on the site, just too big a risk in my eyes to carry on. If i am honest scratting and chasing cheap disco's is not my thing,people didn't even have the decency to reply to e-mails.

[CRAZY K]

I'd settle for anyone actually acknowledging receipt of my emails. Martin, your customers are lacking in the social graces. Politeness costs nothing. :D:D

I would have to say Peter that applies sadly to most of the enquiries we get and its the way of the Internet in general.

Its impersonal.

Over the years we have issued many thousands of quotes and rarely get a thank you unless we actually get the business--Social graces are lacking everwhere---but there again considering the kind of :Censored: programmes on TV featuring the latest bunch of foul mouthed morons available insulting each other---is it surprising?

Mind you --do you want some smug git emailing you to say they found someone cheaper--I dont:rolleyes:

[katman]

Mind you --do you want some smug git emailing you to say they found someone cheaper--I dont:rolleyes:

Personally I would rather receive an email telling me that I didnt get the gig than receive nothing.

If nothing else, its an acknowledgement that they received your quote.

[Vectis]

Personally I would rather receive an email telling me that I didnt get the gig than receive nothing.

If nothing else, its an acknowledgement that they received your quote.


So, this begs the question who does request an acknowledgement? And does this make any difference?

[Ryu]

So, this begs the question who does request an acknowledgement? And does this make any difference?

I have in the past...in one case it actually turned into a conversion (a non NAD one) but the majority have been price, one lady said I'd not mentioned enough about past experience, the other said they wanted Vid Screens (which I didn't have at the time). If its one I really wanted I ask for any feedback on my sales pitch, market research purposes. I've learnt little bits from doing it, the main lesson was I wasn't the cheapest.

[chrisj]

I have in the past...in one case it actually turned into a conversion (a non NAD one) but the majority have been price, one lady said I'd not mentioned enough about past experience, the other said they wanted Vid Screens (which I didn't have at the time). If its one I really wanted I ask for any feedback on my sales pitch, market research purposes. I've learnt little bits from doing it, the main lesson was I wasn't the cheapest.

I lose well over half my enquiries because I am not the cheapest and I do ask people why they are not bothered about experience to which the majority reply that they are after the cheapest.

[megamixevents]

NAD has been great for us and well worth the money,overall the dashboard is nice and easy to navigate, we get lots of quotes and clearly NAD and the other sites linked get a high number of traffic.

I am also on the understanding there is lots of competitors out there, especially the newer companies that are charging budget prices from £150-£200 per four hour gig so I'm not surprised many companies are not securing gigs.

Customers don't seem to care about insurance, equipment, experience etc. They are bothered only about two points: price, reviews. I know this is frustrating for some older companies but something I have learn't is certain companies are simply not adapting to the 'wants' of the consumer, one simple example is the fact that 'clients' want information instantly therefore waiting for quotes to arrive is extremely frustrating.

The other final point I will make about NAD is the fact they are closing the website for essential maintenance, this is a huge mistake 5 weeks before Christmas. At the moment we are getting more quotes than ever before as people this year are leaving things until last minute. I honestly find it surprising how the owner has researched that 5 weeks before Christmas is quiet for mobile DJ's - very strange.

[megamixevents]

Well NAD is now down...

I think we'll see an increase in AMPDJ quotes over the next few days.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

The other final point I will make about NAD is the fact they are closing the website for essential maintenance, this is a huge mistake 5 weeks before Christmas. At the moment we are getting more quotes than ever before as people this year are leaving things until last minute. I honestly find it surprising how the owner has researched that 5 weeks before Christmas is quiet for mobile DJ's - very strange.

I think Martin knows more about this industry than you will ever know my friend.

[SoundONE]

I think Martin knows more about this industry than you will ever know my friend.

He certainly does, with November almost at an end and December being fully booked for almost everyone and January is renowed for being one of the less busy months of the year, now seems like a pefect time.

[CRAZY K]

NAD has been great for us and well worth the money,overall the dashboard is nice and easy to navigate, we get lots of quotes and clearly NAD and the other sites linked get a high number of traffic.

I am also on the understanding there is lots of competitors out there, especially the newer companies that are charging budget prices from £150-£200 per four hour gig so I'm not surprised many companies are not securing gigs.

Customers don't seem to care about insurance, equipment, experience etc. They are bothered only about two points: price, reviews. I know this is frustrating for some older companies but something I have learn't is certain companies are simply not adapting to the 'wants' of the consumer, one simple example is the fact that 'clients' want information instantly therefore waiting for quotes to arrive is extremely frustrating.

The other final point I will make about NAD is the fact they are closing the website for essential maintenance, this is a huge mistake 5 weeks before Christmas. At the moment we are getting more quotes than ever before as people this year are leaving things until last minute. I honestly find it surprising how the owner has researched that 5 weeks before Christmas is quiet for mobile DJ's - very strange.

If you knew Martin you would realise he must have a very good logical reason for closing his site at this time with a strong business case to back it up.

On general things I think as an Entertainment Industry we should be educating the customers out there about the pitfalls of cheaper sids and their unenviable reputation in the business for wrecking or ruining peoples special events.

The public do not realise having been brainwashed by the Internet, E Bay and the like--this is not like buying and comparing costs of a fixed quality product ---lets say Heinz Baked Beans---cheaper in Asda than Tescos.

If they get it for 50p cheaper no problem--its the same--if they buy a Disco thats cheaper than the next one those rules may well not apply which we all know.

Its none of my business what kind of business anyone wishes to run but to say that people want everything cheap is true but avoids the bigger issue.

Course they do---we all want it cheaper-- but they also dont want letting down and or generally having a duff night--

Getting frustrated over waiting for quotes and information--I deal with general Entertainment rather than Disco specific on a daily basis and have spoken to many thousands of enquirers but I dont ever recall people becoming suicidal because they cant have a quote and information on the spot, even though they often get a good outline upfront.

i have 2 on my desk now to send an email this morning. Far as I know they havent topped themselves yet.:rolleyes:

Dealing with matters efficiently is a bonus and indicates good customer service---its absolutely no guide to the quality of the product or what you get on the night.

Thats my experience as an "older" business.

[Vectis]

I think Martin knows more about this industry than you will ever know my friend.


If you knew Martin you would realise he must have a very good logical reason for closing his site at this time with a strong business case to back it up.

Awww... thanks guys :Embarassed: :kiss:


He certainly does, with November almost at an end and December being fully booked for almost everyone and January is renowed for being one of the less busy months of the year, now seems like a pefect time.

The site is back up and running now - thanks for your patience. This is the first scheduled outage in the last 3 years and was necessary to move the site onto a more suitable platform for the future. We took a careful look at 6 years' worth of usage stats before choosing this weekend. We're now in a much better position to proceed with our various expansion plans.

:beer1:

[Ryu]

On a roll now. 2nd Confirmation.

Can't believe anyone would criticize such a wonderful site ;):sofa:

[CRAZY K]

Awww... thanks guys :Embarassed: :kiss:



The site is back up and running now - thanks for your patience. This is the first scheduled outage in the last 3 years and was necessary to move the site onto a more suitable platform for the future. We took a careful look at 6 years' worth of usage stats before choosing this weekend. We're now in a much better position to proceed with our various expansion plans.

:beer1:

As it happens last Saturday was the first time this year we have not had a gig of any description for me or the Agency and enquiries have slowed--;)

[Excalibur]

Well, here's an interim report. Since joining, I've had loads of leads, but not converted any. (Ah well, the twelve month period is still young. :D ) The latest one tickled me a lot. Big corporate function, in a very prestigious venue. Header at top states that the budget is "Very good", which is reassuring, since they want a Premium DJ.

However, at the bottom of the page, the most important criterion is listed as - you guessed it- not best all round value, not requiring full documentation, but the old favourite " Lowest posible price". It was ever thus.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Unfortunately that's the nature of the beast. People are bothered about price waaaaaaaaaay before quality until it comes and bites them on the arse.

It sticks in my craw when you hear about people spending a fortune on wedding stationery and other fluff that your average guest won't give a second glance or though to and then want to get a DJ for the lowest possible price which is going to leave a much bigger impression on guests and can actually make or break a wedding. Cheap invitations probably not so much.

I recently saw a guy on Glasgow Gumtree offering to do weddings for £80 ANYWHERE. The guy didn't even have a free website, no pics or anything like that but I'm sure he'll have got at least some enquiries.

What kind of DJ and service are they expecting for someone who's taking home not much more than the bar staff when you put it into an hourly rate and take his loading and travelling time into consideration?

Another guy recently put an ad up looking for a DJ for his wedding in a nice castle about an hours drive outside of the city. He'd gone all out on he wedding so the budget was tight (his words) but he was willing to pay up to and including £120!!!!

[Retrodisco]

There's just something about Needadisco enquiries, I love the site and what they do, but cannot convert anything from there.

Direct enquiries I convert around 80% into bookings, and am doing well, phone enquiries even more, but using the same approach on NaD doesn't even gain a reply from anyone, ever.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

There's just something about Needadisco enquiries, I love the site and what they do, but cannot convert anything from there.

Direct enquiries I convert around 80% into bookings, and am doing well, phone enquiries even more, but using the same approach on NaD doesn't even gain a reply from anyone, ever.

It might be a case that it's not as tangible a method of enquiry as a direct e-mail or phone booking.

Filling in an online form and waiting for a bunch of quotes leaves you with no vested interest in any specific DJ. Phoning or e-mailing one directly means you've at least considered them a strong candidate for a booking as opposed to a random DJ you have no clue about in amongst a bunch of random DJs you have no clue about.

I like the idea of these sites but my big issue is that I can see it essentially turning into a race to the bottom price wise.

You pay your fee and sign up.

You get enquiries in for a wedding.

You say £x amount, someone else says £x-10, someone says £x+20 and someone says £x-30. As people are generally just looking for any DJ and haven't put the ground work in to find out about you or any of the competition specifically they're going to go for £x-30 just about every time.

Which leaves you and everyone else with the issue of either sticking it out and hoping you get more high paying gigs or lowering your price which could in turn start a price war.

[SoundONE]

I'll give you a little tip as I have converted a few, sometimes I quote a price sometimes I don't because I need more information before commiting to anything, if your always giving a price try not giving a price on a few and tell them what you can offer, let them chase you, try and get them to email or call you or give you a number to call them. Ask them a question or questions that require an answer! Also try texting them, this has had a good responce. If my tips help let me know, good luck.

[NKR]

We can't knock it.

We have converted only 3 enquiries in two years, but with a combined value of just under £2k

It can be hit and miss, but you need to stick with it.

2 were all day singing/DJ jobs and just picked up a DJ job for February having ignored everything that came through over last couple of months.

Pick and choose your jobs, but in terms of investment to return it is brilliant for us.

[Excalibur]

We can't knock it.

We have converted only 3 enquiries in two years, but with a combined value of just under £2k.

You'd never get that round here! :D

One of the last ones to come in, for a 40th Birthday, 7 till 12, indicated a budget of around £80.

[Vectis]

One of the last ones to come in, for a 40th Birthday, 7 till 12, indicated a budget of around £80.

... and it has received two bids despite the budget being clearly stated :zip:


Why not take advantage of the 'minimum price filter' and then you won't be frustrated by jobs below your threshold? Member Dashboard -> Preferences -> Minimum Pricing :beer1:

[Dynamic Entertainment]

I shall keep on with NaD....even if Ive only managed to convert one booking. Purely because the DJMark scheme has been mentioned on a number of occasions when clients booked direct.

[Daryll]

75% on my gigs are by word of mouth
24% through NAD
1% through my web site.

Martin does a great job , and I will stick to it.

Daryll

[hammy]

I have converted one this year and it was higher than what her budget was, my only downfall its my scanner not working so i can't upload my pat certificate, any ideas Martin

[TONYTIGER]

NAD obviously works for some people and i have been trialing it for a few months have had lots of leads and replied to quite a few by email and telephone if number is available as yet have had not one reply i have worked hard to get all the ticks in the right boxes and am now silver ,but i am not convinced firstly i put the dj mark on my site and found i was getting direct inquiry's to my site then a few weeks later were coming in via NAD i assume that prospective clients had seen the dj mark on the site and were directed away to NAD site which they were unaware of and thought they would try there so have now removed them and added my own legal package to my site were prospective clients can view and print of.
My other observation after being in this business much longer than most that NAD is a very good tool for the public but will drive down prices across the industry ,10 company's bidding against each other for one job will benefit no one in this industry were prices are at a all time low.again the old adage you wont get that around here seems to be quite evident looking at were the leads come from i have put in a large coverage area on my settings but to date not one lead for West Dorset were i am based.In my case i will stick with it but the jury's out and i will wait to see if things improve.

[ukpartydj]

I think the site works great, I convert a fair few probably one in every 50 quotes I send out but takes a couple of mins to provide a quote if you know roughly what you charge People don't always go for the cheapest often I secure over 300 when that was over the maximum budget, the trouble is people not giving enough information, if you just tell them a price and givethem a web link they may just think that's too expensive then choose someone else.

[Pe7e]

I have converted one this year and it was higher than what her budget was, my only downfall its my scanner not working so i can't upload my pat certificate, any ideas Martin

Try the guy who tested your kit, he probably has the file he printed your certificate from on his PC, failing that your local libary or 'office shop' can possibly scan it for you and save to a thumb drive.

[SoundONE]

I have converted one this year and it was higher than what her budget was, my only downfall its my scanner not working so i can't upload my pat certificate, any ideas Martin


Camera on phone maybe ?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I have converted one this year and it was higher than what her budget was, my only downfall its my scanner not working so i can't upload my pat certificate, any ideas Martin

Buy a new scanner. :D

Funnily enough, I have a lovely all in one scanner/copier/printer/fax for sale....excellent machine and a bargain too..

[Excalibur]

... and it has received two bids despite the budget being clearly stated :zip:
Don't think I didn't notice that Martin. ;)



Why not take advantage of the 'minimum price filter' and then you won't be frustrated by jobs below your threshold? Member Dashboard -> Preferences -> Minimum Pricing :beer1:

Because I am a seeker after knowledge? ( Nosey )
Because I am an eternal optimist, who believes that the sheer magnitude of what I have to offer will make them put their hands deeper into their pockets?
Because I often have an impish sense of humour, and may consider quoting myself? It doesn't say anywhere that I have to send out the Wembley rig to every booking. Two speakers,and amp, a laptop, a mixer and two par cans shouldn't take too long to rig.
Because I can?



OK, two points. although a figure of £80 actually is below my threshold, I never said in my initial post that it was.
Secondly, on the flip side of the coin, there's a quote needed for an all day wedding which may easily exceed £500.

All human life is contained therein, eh Martin?

[Vectis]

although a figure of £80 actually is below my threshold, I never said in my initial post that it was.

And my response didn't imply that it was, either :)



Secondly, on the flip side of the coin, there's a quote needed for an all day wedding which may easily exceed £500.

All human life is contained therein, eh Martin?

Indeed. And as a series of websites which between them target enquiries at all levels, you're bound to see more cheap gigs than premium gigs - because, guess what - it successfully targets all markets! And for every DJ getting £500 for a wedding in a nice hotel on a Saturday, there's probably 10 or 20 Sids getting £50 in local pubs and social clubs. The websites just reflect real life.


Hammy - got a camera phone? So long as we can clearly make out the specifics, a JPEG will do :beer1:

[NKR]

You'd never get that round here! :D

One of the last ones to come in, for a 40th Birthday, 7 till 12, indicated a budget of around £80.

Ha Ha. Nice to know that even after months away some things never change.

You will never get that round here either.

Interesting quote from a groom at end of a singer/DJ job on 6th October this year "That's was brilliant I can't believe we nearly didn't book you, its just Julie insisted and I am glad she did". After further investigation he felt we were too cheap, which worried him. First time I have ever had that one. Mind you after the event he was chuffed to bits he got what he did for the price.

Its trying to work out which one thinks you are too cheap and which thinks you are too much. My crystal ball is still broken, so I have no idea before quoting.

Anyway last need a disco win was earlier this week and back to £200 DJ only job, but its a Friday night in February so every little helps. That is about the level around here :D.

[Excalibur]

:whiteflag: OK, I know when I'm beaten. :whiteflag:

I've just received an enquiry for 25/12 /2013, which unless I need to visit Specsavers, or Vectis has put the wrong date up, is Christmas Day. Now I would need to trouser a very very signifaican fee for working that day, for as soon as Jeanette found out about my intentions, I would be remonstrated with very swiftly. And very forcibly. And painfully. For a long long time. ;)

Obviously however, others feel differently, as at least one member intends to apply for the gig. Maybe he doesn't like all the repeats on TV.

And what is his putative financial for his efforts?








Around £60. Angela, I'm so sorry. Obviously I've done that joke so many times that even the punters are beginning to believe it. I'm left with only one course of action. I'm going outside. I may be gone some time. :eek:

[DazzyD]

Ha Ha. Nice to know that even after months away some things never change.

You will never get that round here either.

Interesting quote from a groom at end of a singer/DJ job on 6th October this year "That's was brilliant I can't believe we nearly didn't book you, its just Julie insisted and I am glad she did". After further investigation he felt we were too cheap, which worried him. First time I have ever had that one. Mind you after the event he was chuffed to bits he got what he did for the price.

Its trying to work out which one thinks you are too cheap and which thinks you are too much. My crystal ball is still broken, so I have no idea before quoting.

Anyway last need a disco win was earlier this week and back to £200 DJ only job, but its a Friday night in February so every little helps. That is about the level around here :D.

I've only had the "too cheap" remark once before, too, and I've had dozens saying "How much???!! :eek: ) so it really is a case of trying to read people's minds and seeing if you can work out what's coming next. Now, when people enquire, I tend to ask them their budget before I give any an prices. I am open to negotiation (sometimes!) and if there's a meeting place somewhere in the middle then I might give these enquiries a punt. However, when people go "My budget is around £80-£100" then I think that it's probably best to end the conversation quickly!


:whiteflag: OK, I know when I'm beaten. :whiteflag:

I've just received an enquiry for 25/12 /2013, which unless I need to visit Specsavers, or Vectis has put the wrong date up, is Christmas Day. Now I would need to trouser a very very signifaican fee for working that day, for as soon as Jeanette found out about my intentions, I would be remonstrated with very swiftly. And very forcibly. And painfully. For a long long time. ;)

Obviously however, others feel differently, as at least one member intends to apply for the gig. Maybe he doesn't like all the repeats on TV.

And what is his putative financial for his efforts?








Around £60. Angela, I'm so sorry. Obviously I've done that joke so many times that even the punters are beginning to believe it. I'm left with only one course of action. I'm going outside. I may be gone some time. :eek:

I think for me to work Christmas Day there'd need to a couple more zeros on the end of that figure!! ;)

[Excalibur]

I think for me to work Christmas Day there'd need to a couple more zeros on the end of that figure!! ;)

Same here. That would be the only way I'd see Boxing Day. :eek:

[Vectis]

YAY! Way to go Shaunie Baby!!!!!! :beer1::beer1::beer1::beer1::beer1:

[Shaun]

YAY! Way to go Shaunie Baby!!!!!! :beer1::beer1::beer1::beer1::beer1:

Yay! My first wedding booking via needadisco. :d :d

[STEVE HANLEY]

Just been one put on there tonight. 18th birthday or similar. 7-11pm. Customer has stated a budget of £80.00. That was less than an hour ago and already some :muppet: has indicated a bid for it and those numbers will increase by tomorrow. Who are these:Censored::Censored:Idiots?

[funkymook]

Just been one put on there tonight. 18th birthday or similar. 7-11pm. Customer has stated a budget of £80.00. That was less than an hour ago and already some :muppet: has indicated a bid for it and those numbers will increase by tomorrow. Who are these:Censored::Censored:Idiots?

But who says they're not putting in higher quotes?

Low price gigs and DJ's who will do them have always been around and always will be, NaD doesn't create them, it just gives people a place to advertise them. I don't think there would be any less of these enquiries if NaD didn't exist - NaD doesn't make people have parties!

A quick tweak of your settings and you'll never see enquiries you have no interest in again.

NaD and GoodParty are extra leads that I would never see through my website - I pick up one or two a year at a fee I'm happy with which more than pays for itself.

[Excalibur]

But who says they're not putting in higher quotes?

Correct. As yet, I've not matched my quote to the budget, I've matched it to the function. On so many occasions where it says "lowest price", I know I'm not going to get them, but I'm not knocking fifty quid off my fee to chase them.




NaD and GoodParty are extra leads that I would never see through my website - I pick up one or two a year at a fee I'm happy with which more than pays for itself.

And if I pick any up, I shall agree with you.

P.S. Cross your collective fingers, but watch this space. ;);)

[chrisj]

I won a NAD enquiry for a disco from 5 - 7pm for under 12's and did it yesterday, my birthday too. 40 minutes away and £90. Now for those hours on a Tuesday that isn't bad and the profit has paid for my NAD membership plus a mother of one of the party kids has booked me for her daughter party and the social club are very interested.

Of all the NAD enquiries I receive I convert, at last count, 2%, so I am happy.

[Retrodisco]

The percentage for virtually everyone seems to be incredibly low, so who IS converting the 98% of leads the rest of us don't get?

[Vectis]

so who IS converting

The "Top 10" on the member dashboard intro / news page is a good indicator.

[Retrodisco]

Even they only had a few compared to the pile that come through.

[Vectis]

Even they only had a few compared to the pile that come through.

A few? One guy has 16 wins in 22 days :confused:

Most folks don't make a decision there and then, especially when payday hasn't come round yet.

[Vectis]

so who IS converting

Ahem! :)

[STEVE HANLEY]

[But who says they're not putting in higher quotes? ]

You've got me beat there mate. If someone says their budget is £80.00. Why would someone put in a higher priced quote?

[Retrodisco]

Ahem! :)

Just got one converted, first once in ages, lowish price for me, but it's soon and a friday, so happy with that. I was thinking of the needed testimonial when taking it, as just need one for Gold.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

You've got me beat there mate. If someone says their budget is £80.00. Why would someone put in a higher priced quote?

Because most people haven't booked a disco before and may think that is what the going rate is? I've had people comment before about having other cheaper quotes but what I can offer, look of the website etc.. just knocked the socks off the rest and booked....

[STEVE HANLEY]

Because most people haven't booked a disco before and may think that is what the going rate is? I've had people comment before about having other cheaper quotes but what I can offer, look of the website etc.. just knocked the socks off the rest and booked....

How often does that happen then?

[funkymook]

How often does that happen then?

Every single time! It'd be a very naive DJ who thought they were the only person a client contacts. And if you charge a decent rate they will have had cheaper quotes.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

How often does that happen then?


Not a huge percentage mention that but who knows what the thinking is behind clients when they just say "ok how do we book" etc...

Having not been a member of NAD for a while now I can't really comment on the leads coming from there.

[Excalibur]

P.S. Cross your collective fingers,

Must have worked Lads and Lasses, many thanks, because:

but watch this space. ;);)

From customer email this morning:
Thanks very much for your assistance with references.
They have come back very positive and confidence giving! :-)

We would like to go ahead and book please.

:jumping::jumping::jumping::jumping:

PS. It's more than Sixty quid. A lot more. A lot lot more. :D:D:D

All I've got to do now is work out how to claim it as a win on NAD, and send Vectis a virtual :beer1: Yippee.

[funkymook]

Must have worked Lads and Lasses, many thanks, because:


From customer email this morning:
Thanks very much for your assistance with references.
They have come back very positive and confidence giving! :-)

We would like to go ahead and book please.

:jumping::jumping::jumping::jumping:

PS. It's more than Sixty quid. A lot more. A lot lot more. :D:D:D

All I've got to do now is work out how to claim it as a win on NAD, and send Vectis a virtual :beer1: Yippee.

Good work - there are quality clients that respond to quality replies on NaD.

[hammy]

Am I doing something right, Thats 2 in one month from NAD. Even though she has said she chose another dj. Martin, number 10270057 has chose me lol any chance of changing it please.

[Vectis]

All I've got to do now is work out how to claim it as a win on NAD, and send Vectis a virtual :beer1: Yippee.

:ner:

Go back into the lead details either from the email or the Leads tab on your dashboard, then Update Status then Won.

Now you've sussed out how, here's to many more :beer1:




any chance of changing it please.

For obvious reasons only the client can do this - ask them to drop us a note with the particulars, and if everything matches up (email addy, IP etc.) we'll update it.

[Excalibur]

One which tickled me today. Party for 7-11 year olds, couple of hours, circa £100, fairly reasonable. It's only when you see that the customer is struggling with the 24 hour clock, and the party runs from 11.00 to 01.00, a grand total of fourteen hours. :eek:

[simonp]

Can't believe this thread I started 17 months ago is still going haha :D

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I've been having a look at NAD and I'm quite interested in getting on board if nothing else, I think the DJmark system is a quick and tangible way to show that you're not a cowboy to prospective clients.

I'm just wondering exactly how the ProDub compliance works for people who don't need a ProDub licence? All of my files come from legal downloads and nothing is converted from a CD or any other media so I don't need ProDub (although do correct me if I'm wrong on that one...) so how would it work for me?

Also how does the feedback work? You know yourself sometimes getting prompt or any kind of written feedback from clients can be a pain. I've got clients that have booked me several times or passed me on to their friends but never bothered to provide proper feedback. :mad:

[Vectis]

I'm just wondering exactly how the ProDub compliance works for people who don't need a ProDub licence? All of my files come from legal downloads and nothing is converted from a CD or any other media so I don't need ProDub (although do correct me if I'm wrong on that one...) so how would it work for me?

You can file a disclaimer, signed by the company owner or a director. These can be passed on to a relevant agency on demand. Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.



Also how does the feedback work? You know yourself sometimes getting prompt or any kind of written feedback from clients can be a pain. I've got clients that have booked me several times or passed me on to their friends but never bothered to provide proper feedback. :mad:

NaD tracks the lead from initial enquiry through to completion of gig and invites clients to leave feedback shortly afterwards. There is a take-up rate of around 60%. This takes the form of a multiple-choice questionnaire plus free text comments. These are then used to improve your ranking / DJmark award level and are also available to cross-post to your own website or Facebook page etc. via RSS.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Feedback sounds like a good system.

RE: ProDub, do you mean agencies as in PRS and BPI or potential clients and venues? I don't know a whole lot about the ins and outs of ProDub since I don't need it and I think it's a bit of a con to be honest but it is something I should probably learn more about just from being in the industry.

[Vectis]

Disclaimers will only ever be shared with "official" agencies who request to see them as a part of an investigation, so PRS for Music, Trading Standards, the Police, HMRC etc.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I'm a Rangers fan, don't mention HM:Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored::Censore d::Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored::Censore d::Censored::Censored:RC to me :D

I'll definitely look into joining.

[JAMdisco]

I've just joined :)

Always welcome extra work although won't be quoting for any 18th's - not worth the hassle IMO...

[JAMdisco]

Wow, just joined NAD on Wednesday, got 2 enquiries already, one I din't want (too far and just wanted a walk in DJ - not for me), the other I replied to and got the gig, deposit paid today and contracts signed.
So basically the £25 membership has more than paid for itself already - here's to many more :) :beer1:

[Excalibur]

), the other I replied to and got the gig, deposit paid today and contracts signed.


I know which one you're referring to. I quoted a fiver less, and still didn't get it! Really fancied it, too. Well done mate.

[JAMdisco]

I know which one you're referring to. I quoted a fiver less, and still didn't get it! Really fancied it, too. Well done mate.

Just my usual sales pitch - to be fair I think the clincher was the fact that I've been there quite a lot over the years... Sorry mate, but all is fair in.... erm... quotes and gigs. :)

Feel free to take the one in Gainsborough though, bit far for me...

[JAMdisco]

Well, either my prices are too high or my sales pitch isn't working now lol. Quoted for around 15 and only got one of them. I do tend to over-budget though for ones that are a fair distance away (i.e. 25 miles or more) - got to cover fuel expenses.

On a plus side, I've just secured an engagement party from AMPDJ on 6th April - again, quite a nice price. :)

[Excalibur]

Well, I just got another Young Farmers Party from there. ( Mind you, the fact that I'd done one for my local branch which all the others were at last week may have helped. ;) ) Beat seven others as well, so that's very nice.

I'm only running at about 0.5% conversion rate, but it's a start. I've had a lot of responses lately saying sorry but other arrangements have been made, which gave me the impression that they'd have liked to book me, but someone had booked "friend of a friend" or similar. Promising.

[JAMdisco]

Ah you got that one did ya? lol.

I just put my standard reply to that and I'm guessing you 'sold' your experience with young farmer's disco's... that's 1-1 now :)

Although I spoke to someone last night and think I have that one in the bag, she's ringing me back today but did ask last night "how do I book?" - I like that question...

[ukpartydj]

"how do I book?" - I like that question...

:like: opened my emails today to see two people asking this question and one who has completed a booking form straight from the quote :confused:.
Not going to complain though haven't had anything from needadisco for nearly a month so 3 at once is good going and a first for myself.

[mkindy]

i joined NAD after reading this post, i've replied to loads of leads but i'm not getting any gigs, i must be doing something wrong :-(

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

i joined NAD after reading this post, i've replied to loads of leads but i'm not getting any gigs, i must be doing something wrong :-(

I just converted my first Amp DJ enquiry and the unfortunate reality is that it's probably a result of me offering to do it for a lot less than I'd liked to have since it's a local "easy" gig.

[ukpartydj]

probably a result of me offering to do it for a lot less than I'd liked to have since it's a local "easy" gig.

Defiantly agree NAD is very price orientated, if you've got a space in your diary and it's fairly soon you might as well drop the price £50 and get the gig rather than sit at home earning bugger all.

[Vectis]

i've replied to loads of leads but i'm not getting any gigs, i must be doing something wrong :-(

You're only two weeks in ... :)

1. Take notice of the "reasons why they booked" information in the rejection emails

2. Get your ranking up on the site

3. Work on getting your "Public" page right ... they rank well and get lots of clicks

4. Join the members Facebook group for hints and tips from others


NaD isn't just about referred leads - it is also a very good way to improve your own website's reputation and build relevant backlinks. Think outside the box a little and wait a bit longer than a couple of weeks :beer1:

[DJ Jules]

1. Take notice of the "reasons why they booked" information in the rejection emails


I know this isn't the place for technical support... but I've never seen one of these emails?

Julian

[hammy]

Nor me

[AndyC]

The sort of emails I normally get are along the lines of:


The client DID book through needadisco.com but has advised us they have booked another member on this occasion.

The client did not leave any helpful feedback.


The client DID book through needadisco.com but has advised us they have booked another member on this occasion.

The client left the following feedback:
Thank you very much for your speedy quote


The client DID book through needadisco.com but has advised us they have booked another member on this occasion.

The client left the following feedback:
Thanks for your help

The client DID book through needadisco.com but has advised us they have booked another member on this occasion.

The client left the following feedback:
Thank you for your assistance


The client DID book through needadisco.com but has advised us they have booked another member on this occasion.

The client left the following feedback:
Thank you for your quote


The client DID book through needadisco.com but has advised us they have booked another member on this occasion.

The client gave us the following reason(s) for choosing their DJ over any other quote:
We read through all the reviews and details of the DJs who responded and <chosen DJ> came out ahead of all the others for us!


The client DID book through needadisco.com but has advised us they have booked another member on this occasion.

The client gave us the following reason(s) for choosing their DJ over any other quote:
Professional response



The client DID book through needadisco.com but has advised us they have booked another member on this occasion.

The client gave us the following reason(s) for choosing their DJ over any other quote:
Quick packing up time

please enlighten me as to how these are helpful (with the possible exception of the last 2). don't get me wrong I have had some success since I've been a member
and i think its well worth the out lay in terms of the return but it can be a little disheartening at times sending out lots of quotes and getting very little back in the way of response from the clients.

Andy

[Ryu]

The sort of emails I normally get are along the lines of:


The client DID book through needadisco.com but has advised us they have booked another member on this occasion.

The client did not leave any helpful feedback.


The client DID book through needadisco.com but has advised us they have booked another member on this occasion.

The client left the following feedback:
Thank you very much for your speedy quote


The client DID book through needadisco.com but has advised us they have booked another member on this occasion.

The client left the following feedback:
Thanks for your help

The client DID book through needadisco.com but has advised us they have booked another member on this occasion.

The client left the following feedback:
Thank you for your assistance


The client DID book through needadisco.com but has advised us they have booked another member on this occasion.

The client left the following feedback:
Thank you for your quote


The client DID book through needadisco.com but has advised us they have booked another member on this occasion.

The client gave us the following reason(s) for choosing their DJ over any other quote:
We read through all the reviews and details of the DJs who responded and <chosen DJ> came out ahead of all the others for us!


The client DID book through needadisco.com but has advised us they have booked another member on this occasion.

The client gave us the following reason(s) for choosing their DJ over any other quote:
Professional response



The client DID book through needadisco.com but has advised us they have booked another member on this occasion.

The client gave us the following reason(s) for choosing their DJ over any other quote:
Quick packing up time

please enlighten me as to how these are helpful (with the possible exception of the last 2). don't get me wrong I have had some success since I've been a member
and i think its well worth the out lay in terms of the return but it can be a little disheartening at times sending out lots of quotes and getting very little back in the way of response from the clients.

Andy

:agree:

Also, why is it we can't see the fee that was agreed between Customer and the confirmed booker? I could learn a shedload more from failed bids from just this tiny bit of information.

[hammy]

:agree:

Also, why is it we can't see the fee that was agreed between Customer and the confirmed booker? I could learn a shedload more from failed bids from just this tiny bit of information.

:like: :agree: And we dont mean we need to see who they booked just what the agreed price was.

[funkymook]

:like: :agree: And we dont mean we need to see who they booked just what the agreed price was.

Out of interest what would you do with that information? It's either going to say it was a cheaper quote, a more expensive one or the same.

Armed with that knowledge what would your next step be?

[JAMdisco]

I just secured another through NAD. A 25th surprise wedding anniversary on 30th March. 3 other members supplied quote but I think the fact that the venue is local (about 5 mins away) and the fact I rang her straight away clinched the deal on this occasion (also the fact that I've played there many times).

On the email notification - I seem to get a lot - make sure you don't tie your budget or function type down too much on the NAD dashboard and you will probably get more.

[Vectis]

With a little detective work it's usually possible to find out who won a particular bid :zip:

With this in mind, and because of the greater value of this information, the agreed fee will never be shared. It will be fed into our aggregated "price bands" analysis to improve these over time. This, in effect, gives you the same information as if we told you what each individual gig went for.

Regarding the feedback emails, the "Thanks for your quote" type were introduced because members were complaining that they often didn't receive ANY feedback from clients after submitting quotes. So, not much help for refining strategy, but great for soothing egos.

The "You didn't win because X Y and Z" emails are a recent, welcome addition :beer1:

[JAMdisco]

Out of interest what would you do with that information? It's either going to say it was a cheaper quote, a more expensive one or the same.

Armed with that knowledge what would your next step be?

Have to agree with this, it's not always the cheaper quote that gets the gig, I quoted £5 more than Excalibur and still got the gig (I know £5 is not a lot but it's how you sell yourself sometimes - granted, some will book purely on price unfortunately).

[Ryu]

Out of interest what would you do with that information? It's either going to say it was a cheaper quote, a more expensive one or the same.

Armed with that knowledge what would your next step be?

Cheaper Quote - Shrug
More Expensive Quote - Improve Marketing
Same Quote - Improve Marketing.

It would discount a whole heap of lost bids due to being outbid. If it happened on ALL of the leads, you'd know you were either not priced correctly or need to offer more. The fact that you are, as it stands, never sure whether its a price thing or not, leaves you endlessly questioning your approach or tweaking your sales pitch.

[funkymook]

Well, I just got another Young Farmers Party from there. .


Ah you got that one did ya? lol.


With a little detective work it's usually possible to find out who won a particular bid :zip:

Well you hardly need to be Sherlock with these two!

[Vectis]

Cheaper Quote - Shrug
More Expensive Quote - Improve Marketing
Same Quote - Improve Marketing.

It would discount a whole heap of lost bids due to being outbid. If it happened on ALL of the leads, you'd know you were either not priced correctly or need to offer more. The fact that you are, as it stands, never sure whether its a price thing or not, leaves you endlessly questioning your approach or tweaking your sales pitch.

Well our view is that the agreed fee is private information between the client and the service provider.

The client is invited to share it with us anonymously, and about 60% of them do so. This is then used to improve the "budget ranges" information which is held at postcode level and published. As far as I'm aware there's no other organisation providing this level of detail or being so transparent with the proprietary information that they hold.



Well you hardly need to be Sherlock with these two!

Laurel & Hardy more like ;)

[funkymook]

Cheaper Quote - Shrug
More Expensive Quote - Improve Marketing
Same Quote - Improve Marketing.

It would discount a whole heap of lost bids due to being outbid. If it happened on ALL of the leads, you'd know you were either not priced correctly or need to offer more. The fact that you are, as it stands, never sure whether its a price thing or not, leaves you endlessly questioning your approach or tweaking your sales pitch.

So you don't think there's anything you can do against cheaper quotes? I'd disagree with that.

[Ryu]

So you don't think there's anything you can do against cheaper quotes? I'd disagree with that.

This would likely be dependent on how much cheaper...a lot cheaper, then no, just a bit cheaper, then I'd probably treat that the same way as a lost "same price" lead.


Well our view is that the agreed fee is private information between the client and the service provider.

The client is invited to share it with us anonymously, and about 60% of them do so. This is then used to improve the "budget ranges" information which is held at postcode level and published. As far as I'm aware there's no other organisation providing this level of detail or being so transparent with the proprietary information that they hold.

Ebay?

I certainly appreciate the transparency available at the moment, but what is the strategic advantage to NAD to NOT tell DJs what the winning "bid" was?

[Shaun]

granted, some will book purely on price unfortunately).

I still personally think that most book based on price with such sites. In every case where the client has stated their budget, or where NAD has stated "Previous events at this budget level in this area have typically been agreed at the following rates: Between £xxx and £xxx". All have been lower than my regular fee for the area, which ultimately leaves me at a higher disadvantage the majority of the time as I'm competing with the deluge of members that are offering budget prices compared to me.

I have quite a good conversion ratio these days from bookings made directly to me. However, with sites such as needadisco and AmpDJ etc I have a very poor conversion ratio despite my responses being the same as those that come in directly. I can only attribute that to the cost factor and the immediate saturation of quotes the clients are receiving from much lower priced DJs.

Whilst I have the utmost respect for Martin, I still think these types of services are geared more towards those looking for a budget service. Not all the time, but I do believe for the majority of cases. Just my personal thoughts! :beer1:

[Vectis]

Ebay?

I was referring to DJ specific sites.


I certainly appreciate the transparency available at the moment, but what is the strategic advantage to NAD to NOT tell DJs what the winning "bid" was?

If we were to communicate winning bids to DJs, this would have to be declared to the clients, resulting in an almost certain collapse in the amount of information shared (we did trial this once in a small area, so I'm not making this up).

We would also have to remove one of our effective marketing channels, to avoid winning members being identified, presenting a strategic DISadvantage.

[JAMdisco]

I still personally think that most book based on price with such sites. In every case where the client has stated their budget, or where NAD has stated "Previous events at this budget level in this area have typically been agreed at the following rates: Between £xxx and £xxx". All have been lower than my regular fee for the area, which ultimately leaves me at a higher disadvantage the majority of the time as I'm competing with the deluge of members that are offering budget prices compared to me.

This maybe so but I've also had a few enquiries where the top fee is higher than I normally charge.

If you want high paid jobs this site is maybe not for you but I'm in a position where these supplement my residencies and so long as it's not a 'silly' price, I'll go for them.

I've got 2 from this site so far so that's more then paid for the membership and neither have been less than I would quote if they came direct. :)

[Shaun]

If you want high paid jobs this site is maybe not for you



I'm an optimist, so I'll keep on keeping on. It hasn't been a complete waste of time as I've secured 2 bookings via NAD.


1: A low paid store promotion gig for around a third of my fee. The plus side to this is that I've had 5 more bookings from the agent direct since. So although the original fee was quite low I've secured higher paying events as a result.

2: A wedding at a lower rate than my regular fee. I'd been offering a promotion around the time of her initial enquiry so she got a good price. I didn't hear a thing until she contacted me via my website asking for another quote some time later. At first I didn't realise that she had already enquired, and the earlier promotion had ended so I quoted her full price. A few hours later she contacted me again wanting to book at the reduced earlier price I'd quoted her.

Although my conversion ration is low, the bookings I've received had made it worth persevering with.

[Ryu]

I was referring to DJ specific sites.



If we were to communicate winning bids to DJs, this would have to be declared to the clients, resulting in an almost certain collapse in the amount of information shared (we did trial this once in a small area, so I'm not making this up).

We would also have to remove one of our effective marketing channels, to avoid winning members being identified, presenting a strategic DISadvantage.

O.k, that's fair enough. How about a range (i.e This gig was booked at a rate between £250-300) as opposed to Higher or Lower than budget? (as a side point the bandings for which aren't massively helpful...£200-299 is a prime example....I would go out for, say, £275 on certain nights, but not £200)

[Vectis]

How about a range (i.e This gig was booked at a rate between £250-300)

Nope, sorry, not going to happen.



the bandings for which aren't massively helpful...£200-299 is a prime example

We use (rightly or wrongly, but after much experimentation it seems to work well with Joe Public) three groupings throughout the site - "Budget" (limited experience, basic equipment), "Mid-Price" (average experience, typical equipment) and "Premium" (very experienced, best equipment). Any more becomes confusing for the client. Hence the price ranges.

When you see a range you also need to consider all the other factors such as type of venue, number of guests, your "gut feel" experience as a local DJ...

Using your example range, £200 might well be a good "average" rate for an 18th in a pub for 40 people whereas £299 might be a good "average" rate for a silver wedding in a hotel for 150. In the same, particular, area, of course.

---

Actually, folks, this really isn't the right place for digging into this level of detail about how the site works. We do have a member only Facebook page which already has lots of discussions similar to this, so I'll be happy to answer in more detail there. If you've not joined already check out your Documentation -> Social Networking section for details.

[Excalibur]

Laurel & Hardy more like ;)
On balance, I reckon Martin can do me more harm to me on NAD than I can justifiably do to him on here, so I'll let that remark pass.


This time. :Naughty: :D:D


So you don't think there's anything you can do against cheaper quotes? I'd disagree with that.
Well yes. And then again no. To compete against cheaper quotes, you have to convey to the customer what the benefits of paying the higher fee are.


This may be so but I've also had a few enquiries where the top fee is higher than I normally charge.
At which point you quote at the top of your normal range, safe in the knowledge that you'll have a big advantage over the lads quoting £500 plus.

And the customer bins your quote, because you're not "reassuringly expensive". :( It's a fine line to tread,



I've got 2 from this site so far so that's more then paid for the membership and neither have been less than I would quote if they came direct. :)
Snap.



Although my conversion ration is low, the bookings I've received had made it worth persevering with.

You only need one booking per year to justify membership.




We use (rightly or wrongly, but after much experimentation it seems to work well with Joe Public) three groupings throughout the site - "Budget" (limited experience, basic equipment), "Mid-Price" (average experience, typical equipment) and "Premium" (very experienced, best equipment). Any more becomes confusing for the client. Hence the price ranges.

Need more categories. One which springs to mind is " Damn Fine Value ". Mature DJ's who have seen and done it all, unfazed by intransigent punters and venue staff, last minute demands, and other minor irritations. Atypical equipment, more than fit for purpose, but not bearing the upmarket badges beloved of the gear snobs. :whistle::D:D:D


Actually, folks, this really isn't the right place for digging into this level of detail about how the site works. We do have a member only Facebook page which already has lots of discussions similar to this, so I'll be happy to answer in more detail there. If you've not joined already check out your Documentation -> Social Networking section for details.
Hmmmm. Facebook, eh? Sorry Martin, that's a step too far. I'm fifty seven, not fifteen.



Right, read carefully folks, free, gratis and for nothing, are my helpful hints on securing work from NAD. Where possible, make a phone call. This is paramount in convincing customers that you're the man ( woman ) for the job. You're not someone who's going to turn up with the "one size/ playlist fits all" attitude. You have to make them see that you're keen to provide them with what they want ( and a few things they didn't know they wanted, until you told them ) rather than exactly the same disco you did last week, and the week before that. Sell yourself on what you can offer, not what you charge.

[Shaun]

You only need one booking per year to justify membership.


In some cases, maybe, but surely it depends on how many enquiries you reply to, and how long each individual enquiry reply takes? There was a recent discussion where it was mentioned that some enquiries could take up to an hour to provide a concise response. If you are providing a truly concise response to each individual, and only take one booking a year out of countless replies, then it could be argued that converting 1 booking per year simply isn't cost effective when you take into account time time you've taken responding throughout the year to each enquirer.

That said, it been worthwhile for me thus far. :beer1:

[Excalibur]

In some cases, maybe, but surely it depends on how many enquiries you reply to, and how long each individual enquiry reply takes?
Ah yes, my dear boy, but if you expend your energies where you most desire them to have a beneficial result, and where you feel this is the best use of your efforts........................................... ................................. ;)

The gig you didn't really want, in a seedy pub in an area of town where they frisk you for weapons on entry, and if you haven't got one, they give you one, get the standard " Dear Sir/Madam/Whatever, I'm available on the 33rd of Febroobarb for your :beer1:up at the Chav's Arms, it'll only cost you £xxxxxxxxxx " doesn't take long to fill in the blanks on the template.

Contrast this with the wedding in a picturesque setting, with a sensible budget. Again, the email's a doddle. " Dear Arabella, I know you want your wedding to be memorable, unique and intensely personal, so I won't insult you by giving you an off the peg quote. I'll ring you at a convenient time, to see exactly what you desire, and give you not only a quote for your bespoke wedding, but also for the optional services I can provide................................. ". Then you can give the dear lady the full benefit of your charm, wit and sales technique to your heart's content.

Work smarter, not harder son, smarter not harder. ;);)

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Ah yes, my dear boy, but if you expend your energies where you most desire them to have a beneficial result, and where you feel this is the best use of your efforts........................................... ................................. ;)

The gig you didn't really want, in a seedy pub in an area of town where they frisk you for weapons on entry, and if you haven't got one, they give you one, get the standard " Dear Sir/Madam/Whatever, I'm available on the 33rd of Febroobarb for your :beer1:up at the Chav's Arms, it'll only cost you £xxxxxxxxxx " doesn't take long to fill in the blanks on the template.

Contrast this with the wedding in a picturesque setting, with a sensible budget. Again, the email's a doddle. " Dear Arabella, I know you want your wedding to be memorable, unique and intensely personal, so I won't insult you by giving you an off the peg quote. I'll ring you at a convenient time, to see exactly what you desire, and give you not only a quote for your bespoke wedding, but also for the optional services I can provide................................. ". Then you can give the dear lady the full benefit of your charm, wit and sales technique to your heart's content.

Work smarter, not harder son, smarter not harder. ;);)

Spot on, though I work hard and smart :P

A friend of mine was getting married last year and he got a bunch of quotes that weren't much more than - alright mate, I'll do it for £x and that's including one at a wedding show that quoted him a price and couldn't or wouldn't actually explain what he got for that quote.

I picked up a booking for a civil partnership later in the year where the guys said they were booking me as they felt I was putting the effort inw ith my communication (they were getting the usual "Hello sir / madam. I'm free that date. I'll do it for my usual fee x 2 since it's a wedding." e-mail responses and the DJs they phoned or spoke to themselves (some at wedding shows too) couldn't give them a clear concise break down of what they were getting for their money.

[Vectis]

Work smarter, not harder son, smarter not harder. ;);)

:agree:

Resist the urge to reply to each and every quote request (unless you're eating from the local food bank). Focus on those which excite you. Your passion will show through. Don't be afraid to ask for what you're worth. Bear in mind that at first contact the client has probably never even heard of you. Also bear in mind that something like 70% of people have never booked a DJ before (we have stats to prove it) and that, due to sheer numbers, their prior experience of DJs is most likely blokes in pubs with Craplins gear and a laptop full of dodgy downloads....

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

:agree:
their prior experience of DJs is most likely blokes in pubs with Craplins gear and a laptop full of dodgy downloads....

*shuffles away quietly* :D

You make a great point about people not really knowing what they're looking for.

I've played in bands for even longer than I've DJ'd and you would not believe the amount of friends I have who are musical or into music but don't have a clue about live entertainment.

I had a mate who's grade 7 on piano turn round while we were watching a cover band one night and ask me "are they any good?" WHAT!?!?! Imagine him trying to book a band for his wedding and he's got a dozen or more quotes which to him are all the same / no one stands out. Who's he going to go for? The one with the hot singer obviously :muppet: but the reality is if they're looking at a range of products that are all interchangeable then people will just go for the cheapest.

It's the same for DJs, in fact even more so because we can't do demos unless you're a club DJ.

You might have top of the range RCF's, Martin movers (all DMX'd and digitally controlled of course) PAT Testing, a Macbook pro, top of the range Traktors, Pro Dub, WAV files and so on but to someone who doesn't have a clue about DJing, you're just another guy with some speakers and a bunch of lights.

You need to sell YOU especially for stuff like weddings where couples are prepared to pay a premium to make sure they get someone who they can trust to do a good job.

[chrisj]

Well said Jim. Many people say they have never booked a disco before when they call me and are surprised when I tell them I will help them all I can with my 44 years experience, whether they book me or someone else.

[JAMdisco]

Well, some responses must be pretty atrocious - I just got this back from a reply I gave (although not from NAD but I know of a few people who do use the one I got this through).

Justin,

Thanks for getting back to me. Can I just say how professional your email was in response compared to others I've had back! I will certainly be in touch for further information. Please can you just confirm if you do a karaoke as well or if not, what sort of party games you do suitable for 11 year olds?

Kind regards,
*****

You gotta wonder what some people respond with - "yeah - I'm free - 100 smackers and bloody good gear mate"

lol

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I always respond with a full quotation and as much information as I can give them.
Remember, the enquirers will be receiving lots of emails etc from suppliers and whilst some may well be looking for the cheapest deal possible and the odd one liner may suit them, the majority will want more information.
I'm finding that most of the time I am clicking unavailable when going to the member dashboard which I guess is a good thing?

I've also found that in the new year I had lots of enquiries via NAD but it seems to have gone quiet lately. My April is looking dire at the moment so I need to fill dates there. The rest of the year is looking good and up on last year but April....arrrghhh!

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

You gotta wonder what some people respond with - "yeah - I'm free - 100 smackers and bloody good gear mate"

lol

The thing is, you will get that...

The problem with musicians and people related to music (and I have an HNC in Music Business Promotion btw :muppet::rolleyes: ) is that they lose sight of the fact that it's the music INDUSTRY and don't approach it in a business like manner or only look at it in terms of the bottom line - £££s...

We provide a service and a product.

To us as DJs it might be great if you've got Martin this and that and Bose towers etc.. but for 99.99% of the populace, you're just some guy that plays tunes.

There's a round of interviews coming up in my work just now and one of the guys who's just out of college last year and is having to go for interviews was moping about the competition and how his application form is the same as everyone else in his position. They've all done the same CPD courses, all have similar experiences in their probation years and so on and he didn't know what he could do to make himself stand out.

I pointed out that the thing that differentiates him from the rest is him.

He does a Kendo club, some guy elsewhere runs a football team. Big deal? explain why your club is better run, more innovative, more popular etc... than the other guy. When I taught out in the Middle East I ran a music club. On paper that looks OKish but doesn't stick out at all. When I add that it started with 3 kids and by the end of term we had so many wanting to join that we needed to create a waiting list as the room couldn't accomdate them AND it was more popular than the computer game and football clubs, that shows them that I kicked ass in that particular endeavour.

We need to take the same approach to DJing. Despite what people say, we're not just being booked to play music. If we were we'd all be dry hiring our rigs for iPods. People are hiring us and what we can offer them that's better than the next guy.

If you're one of a dozen e-mails that go:

My name is Big J Ents, I'm free your date, I have JBL Speakers, ADJ lights, 25,000 songs and can do your date for £X

You can't expect people to pick you out.

[DJ Jules]

If you're one of a dozen e-mails that go:

My name is Big J Ents, I'm free your date, I have JBL Speakers, ADJ lights, 25,000 songs and can do your date for £X

You can't expect people to pick you out.

Oops :D

Julian

P.S. I don't really do that - but I used to. The funny thing is it worked if people were coming in by my website as they've already seen what I do and what I have to offer... Sell sell sell...

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Oops :D

Julian

P.S. I don't really do that - but I used to. The funny thing is it worked if people were coming in by my website as they've already seen what I do and what I have to offer... Sell sell sell...

Yeah but in that case, a good website will have given them all of the info they need and if they;ve got in touch through that, you've obviously peaked their interest.

Someone who's googled DJ hire then used a quote site doesn't know you from anyone else hence the need to stick yourself out there in your responses.

[DJ Jules]

Yeah but in that case, a good website will have given them all of the info they need and if they;ve got in touch through that, you've obviously peaked their interest.

Someone who's googled DJ hire then used a quote site doesn't know you from anyone else hence the need to stick yourself out there in your responses.

Spot on :D

Julian

[chrisj]

Yeah but in that case, a good website will have given them all of the info they need and if they;ve got in touch through that, you've obviously peaked their interest.

Someone who's googled DJ hire then used a quote site doesn't know you from anyone else hence the need to stick yourself out there in your responses.

If they can see a good website it often sells you. I replied to an enquiry and my email reply included my website. I got the wedding booking and next comes an email asking for the bubble machine and Laser. Raises the fee somewhat. but today I have had a further email asking if I can do full mood lighting which I have quoted for and up goes the fee again.
It started as budget dj required. Not any more though. I start setting up at 11am and home for 2am.

[Kernow]

When I taught out in the Middle East I ran a music club, it started with 3 kids and by the end of term we had so many wanting to join that we needed to create a waiting list as the room couldn't accomdate them

Presumably with lyrics based around 'Gangsta Rap' ? :eek:
:D
(Only mentioned as my Biology teacher, which is now nearly 50 years ago, placed great emphasis on 'accommodation', the ability of the lens inside the eye to focus, contains two 'c's, two 'm's, ....... and an extra 'o' !!)
:beer1:

[ukpartydj]

People are hiring us and what we can offer them that's better than the next guy.

Very true, customers buy based on a Unique Selling Point; if there is no obvious USP which matches their criteria then they start comparing us and that's when price plays the major factor.
The more USP's you have the more chance of getting the customer.

take a look at this - http://www.sitepoint.com/how-to-create-unique-selling-proposition/

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Very true, customers buy based on a Unique Selling Point; if there is no obvious USP which matches their criteria then they start comparing us and that's when price plays the major factor.
The more USP's you have the more chance of getting the customer.

take a look at this - http://www.sitepoint.com/how-to-create-unique-selling-proposition/

My USP: Sexy :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored: :Censored::Censored: behind the decks. :beer1:

[Excalibur]

My USP: Sexy :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored: :Censored::Censored: behind the decks. :beer1:
I too have one in the same vein, but in my case, it's a white haired, decrepit old git pressing the buttons. :o

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I too have one in the same vein, but in my case, it's a white haired, decrepit old git pressing the buttons. :o

HAIR?!?!?!? You have a USP over me :D

[dj foureyes]

I too have one in the same vein, but in my case, it's a white haired, decrepit old git pressing the buttons. :o

I wonder if I could use my milk bottle glasses as a selling point?:eek:

[ukpartydj]

Sexy-HairFreeDiscos.com
OldGitEntertainments.co.uk
and
MilkBottleRoadshow.org

Are all still available - be quick!

[ukpartydj]

Does anybody look at the LEAD CLOSURE emails?
I've always deleted them and not even opened them as I get loads of these emails but I noticed today that the email actually has interesting information in them especially if you won the lead.
The last couple of emails said that I was over their budget but they choose me because of - Friendly & Good feedback.

Useful stuff that I've been ignoring right there!

Also did not notice that people close the leads just because they've had enough quotes ... going to have to start replying quicker rather than waiting for a few to bunch up!

[Excalibur]

Does anybody look at the LEAD CLOSURE emails?

I'd love to, but I've only had a couple, if I remember correctly. ( No Martin, that's not a cue for you to give chapter and verse on how many, when, and why. ;))

Sems to me that prompt replies help, ( get in at the front of the pack, by the time they've had six or eight emails, all explaining why they're the only one suitable for the job in hand, boredom and fatigue have probably set in. ) and I've also just sent off a couple of responses to leads showing as having no replies. Gotta be worth a punt, may fill empty dates in the diary, who knows?

[ukpartydj]

Sems to me that prompt replies help, ( get in at the front of the pack, by the time they've had six or eight emails, all explaining why they're the only one suitable for the job in hand, boredom and fatigue have probably set in. )

Suppose I should reply quickly but I get quite a few due to the extra postcodes and no budget limits like today -

9.31
9.44
10.20
10.34
11.55
12.00

I bet I only get a couple more later today ... funny how people often request quotes at the same time of day.

[Excalibur]

Subject to receiving the deposit, another one hits the back of the net! :jumping:

Not as substantial a fee as I'd like, but an acceptable figure, especially as a band are doing a couple of hours, and I get to play all 70's music, and wear something outrageous. ( Don't know what yet, but rest assured, piccies will be posted here. Unless I get sufficient money pledged to prevent me from assailing your senses with such images!! ) :D:D:D

[JAMdisco]

Subject to receiving the deposit, another one hits the back of the net! :jumping:

Not as substantial a fee as I'd like, but an acceptable figure, especially as a band are doing a couple of hours, and I get to play all 70's music, and wear something outrageous. ( Don't know what yet, but rest assured, piccies will be posted here. Unless I get sufficient money pledged to prevent me from assailing your senses with such images!! ) :D:D:D

Well done, either I missed that one or I'm already booked on that date (yes I put all booked dates on the calender) or it's below my budget or on a Friday (which I don't quote for due to my residency)

The one I got for Hodgson's has replied saying that I was the only one who contacted her in person - I think that counts for a lot if they'll accept phone calls.

May also be due to the fact that I rang her immediately, she even commented how fast the reply was (the beauty of having my email on my phone :))

[ukpartydj]

(the beauty of having my email on my phone :))

Indeed, have you set your phone to accept emails on PUSH or whatever they call it? I've done that and tested an literally 2 seconds after I sent an email on my computer my phone went off ... crazy stuff!

[Excalibur]

Well done, either I missed that one or I'm already booked on that date (yes I put all booked dates on the calender) or it's below my budget or on a Friday (which I don't quote for due to my residency)

Probably the former. :p:D:D


The one I got for Hodgson's has replied saying that I was the only one who contacted her in person - I think that counts for a lot if they'll accept phone calls.


From the limited time and experience I've had of NAD, it seems to me that if there's the option of phone contact, then take it. One email must appear much like another to the prospective client, but a phone call is personal. I've just had the closure notice stating exactly what Justin said. If you want the gig, ring up if at all possible.

PS. I've just got another AmpDJ one confirmed this morning, and they want to be a guinea pig for me with Echosign. All good fun.

[Shaun]

Yaaay! I just won another one. Local venue, and for a hundred quid more than her stated budget.

[Vectis]

:star:

So isn't it about time the title of this thread was changed? ;)

[SoundONE]

Need a Disco - Clearly Works

[Shaun]

:star:

So isn't it about time the title of this thread was changed? ;)

Normally I wouldnt without the approval of the thread starter, but I haven't seen Simon on for a while. I've changed it for you.

[chrisj]

Yeah I know it works. Out of around 60 NAD enquiries maybe more this year the second one for this year booked today. Paid for itself already.

Next please.

[Vectis]

Thanks Shaun :beerchug:

[JAMdisco]

Probably the former. :p:D:D


From the limited time and experience I've had of NAD, it seems to me that if there's the option of phone contact, then take it. One email must appear much like another to the prospective client, but a phone call is personal. I've just had the closure notice stating exactly what Justin said. If you want the gig, ring up if at all possible.

PS. I've just got another AmpDJ one confirmed this morning, and they want to be a guinea pig for me with Echosign. All good fun.

Which one was that Peter? I've been using echosign for ages, it's really good - can't fault it at all... :)

[JAMdisco]

Well, I've taken the plunge and booked, paid and designed a banner for the Hull (HU) area so my details should now stand out from the rest. Let's see if that will bump up my conversion rate. Was only £20 so again, just 1 extra booking will be worth it. I've also written quite a few reviews so my ranking is looking quite healthy at the moment. I'll be pushing for reviews from the clients once I've done their functions too.

[ukpartydj]

Well, I've taken the plunge and booked, paid and designed a banner for the Hull (HU) area so my details should now stand out from the rest. Let's see if that will bump up my conversion rate. Was only £20 so again, just 1 extra booking will be worth it. I've also written quite a few reviews so my ranking is looking quite healthy at the moment. I'll be pushing for reviews from the clients once I've done their functions too.

I've taken up a banner ad also but finding it hard to determine effectiveness.

If you want actual clicks to your website then I definitely think your money is better spent elsewhere (only getting 1 or 2 clicks per month on average).
However I understand that the brand power and recognising your logo / name before they click request quotes and then again when you provide a quote can be quite powerful but I personally haven't noticed an increase in bookings from the postcode area.
I guess the design of my banner could also be a downfall. Don't think it's bad though :S

[JAMdisco]

Indeed, have you set your phone to accept emails on PUSH or whatever they call it? I've done that and tested an literally 2 seconds after I sent an email on my computer my phone went off ... crazy stuff!

Yes I have, emails come to my phone pretty much immediately, the wonders of modern technology :)


I've taken up a banner ad also but finding it hard to determine effectiveness.

If you want actual clicks to your website then I definitely think your money is better spent elsewhere (only getting 1 or 2 clicks per month on average).
However I understand that the brand power and recognising your logo / name before they click request quotes and then again when you provide a quote can be quite powerful but I personally haven't noticed an increase in bookings from the postcode area.
I guess the design of my banner could also be a downfall. Don't think it's bad though :S

I guess time will tell but thought it worth a punt as it was only £20 for the HU area. Even with this add-on I'm still quids in from the 2 gigs I've got through this site (and only been on a month).

[JAMdisco]

Well, some responses must be pretty atrocious - I just got this back from a reply I gave (although not from NAD but I know of a few people who do use the one I got this through).

Justin,

Thanks for getting back to me. Can I just say how professional your email was in response compared to others I've had back! I will certainly be in touch for further information. Please can you just confirm if you do a karaoke as well or if not, what sort of party games you do suitable for 11 year olds?

Kind regards,
*****

You gotta wonder what some people respond with - "yeah - I'm free - 100 smackers and bloody good gear mate"

lol

Well, although not through NaD, I won this one, contracts signed and deposit paid, doing quite well this year so far, March, April, June, July, September filling up nicely :)

[Vectis]

You'll find that most of the benefit of postcode banners comes from strong backlinks than from additional clicks (although you can expect plenty of those too).

[Excalibur]

My conversion rate is still low, but rising somewhat, as I've just secured a trip out to a rather nice sports centre in Doncaster, set in twenty acres of grounds, with its own fishing lake. Onwards and upwards. :D

[hammy]

My conversion rate is still low, but rising somewhat, as I've just secured a trip out to a rather nice sports centre in Doncaster, set in twenty acres of grounds, with its own fishing lake. Onwards and upwards. :D

:sorry::offtopic: but I am loving Peter`s avatar

[Excalibur]

:sorry::offtopic: but I am loving Peter`s avatar
Mayhap. And once I find the miscreant responsible for the unauthorised change, vengeance will be mine. Probably at BPM. ;)

Right, now we've had that little diversion: :ontopic:

[WWDJ]

Well, some responses must be pretty atrocious - I just got this back from a reply I gave (although not from NAD but I know of a few people who do use the one I got this through).

Justin,

Thanks for getting back to me. Can I just say how professional your email was in response compared to others I've had back! I will certainly be in touch for further information. Please can you just confirm if you do a karaoke as well or if not, what sort of party games you do suitable for 11 year olds?

Kind regards,
*****

You gotta wonder what some people respond with - "yeah - I'm free - 100 smackers and bloody good gear mate"

lol

I do find all this very interesting and I was chatting with Martin last night about some of this.

I dont use 'need a disco', but I deliberately have prices on my website as it helps qualify out people that have a different budget. This means I often get an 'Are you available' rather than 'how much' enquiry. I also don't have a phone number on my website.

Main reasons for this.
1. The customer is on my website not in the Yellow Pages. Why would they want to phone me when there is a perfectly good contact form staring them in the face. They use this to make initial contact and I am happy to call them at a time that is convenient for both of us.
2. If they did call me, likely I'm doing something else and not able to take the call. Therefore I need a call screening answering service and that costs.
3. It means I can put quality time into each reply to convert it to a booking. This will include pictures and attention to detail about their enquiry maybe if they have mentioned a playlist, talk about how I handle this specifically.

I think a high number of enquiries 'can' lead to poor quality quotes and will reflect in the conversion rates.

[Excalibur]

I think a high number of enquiries 'can' lead to poor quality quotes and will reflect in the conversion rates.
Were I an unduly sensitive little soul, I could take that as a criticism. :Naughty: I've just stated that my conversion rates are low, but I suspect it is not due to the low quality of the quotes. Far from it. It appears that the quality and quantity of the purple prose, and garrulous text lead many customers to simply switch off before getting to the price. Iin one particularly tragic case, some poor soul determined to make it to the end depite this, failed in his heroic attempt, and died of a combination of terminal boredom and incomprehension.

More work needed, I feel. Anyone got the address of the Plain English Society? :confused:

[WWDJ]

Were I an unduly sensitive little soul, I could take that as a criticism. :Naughty: I've just stated that my conversion rates are low, but I suspect it is not due to the low quality of the quotes. Far from it. It appears that the quality and quantity of the purple prose, and garrulous text lead many customers to simply switch off before getting to the price. Iin one particularly tragic case, some poor soul determined to make it to the end depite this, failed in his heroic attempt, and died of a combination of terminal boredom and incomprehension.

More work needed, I feel. Anyone got the address of the Plain English Society? :confused:

Wasn't aimed at you Peter :)

I was coming from my own perspective that if i had to do 10 quotes to win 1 disco perhaps my quality and attention to detail would suffer.

[funkymook]

Wasn't aimed at you Peter :)

I was coming from my own perspective that if i had to do 10 quotes to win 1 disco perhaps my quality and attention to detail would suffer.

Or perhaps it needed addressing in the first place?

[STEVE HANLEY]

Just converted one this morning a wedding in July. Not a massive payer but a fee I can happily work with and a lot more than Sid would charge. I've stopped replying to all the leads I receive from NAD and now I just pick and choose the ones I fancy. I find a much better conversion rate as a result.:beer1:

[Excalibur]

Wasn't aimed at you Peter :)
.


Or perhaps it needed addressing in the first place?

Thanks for sticking up for me Martin, but I'm old enough and ugly enough to cope thanks. :D
Perhaps my fault for not making it clear, I'm sorry. I forget that sometimes folk take me seriously. Dave and I had an exchange of PMs earlier, and we both knew it was tongue in cheek.

The point is however quite valid, and I'll address it seriously below.


. I've stopped replying to all the leads I receive from NAD and now I just pick and choose the ones I fancy. I find a much better conversion rate as a result.:beer1:

Right, deep breath, take the pills, be serious Peter:

I think it's not reasonable to expect to be able to quote for every NAD request. At times they are coming in as fast as I'm sending quotes out. There are many where it's simply not worth quoting, due to low budget and travelling time and costs. I get a lot of requests for work in Nottingham and its environs, and while I'm more than happy to go there for a wedding with a realistic fee, I sure as hell aren't going there for a £100 gig in a boozer or social club.
For only a few quid more though, I'd take the same gig in Goole, Hull or perhaps even Doncaster. Rather than try to set filters to weed out all the ones I don't want, I'm prepared to read them, and decide myself. I quoted a low figure for a wedding in Chesterfield, ( didn't get it mind ) because I can break the journey by staying at my daughter's in Sheffield. I couldn't do the same for one which was a long way North of me. See how the geography of a gig can alter it tremendously. I'm quite happy to go South or West, Hull is the main place I go East for, and as a rule, I don't like going due North. The roads round York can be a nightmare.

Now to the quality of the quotes. I'm prepared to be corrected on this, but I'd say that if you've got a reasonable template, you can fire off a reply in a short space of time. Now then, the $64,000 dollar question, is it a quality response? In my opinion, it's good enough, and it's just secured me the last two bookings from NAD. Be prepared to regard all bookings earned form this method as a bonus.

Could the response be better? Of course. In my very limited experience, if there's a chance of making a phone call, take it. As soon as possible. The big wedding booking I got for June came from me emailing immediately to say that no way could I quote on the information given, and would would call after the weekend ( the request came in on a Thursday or Friday, I recall.) I'm convinced that the phone call on Monday swung it for me that night. I was able to ask questions, offer suggestions, and generally show the client that I cared about her wishes, rather than being someone who was simply going to turn up on the day, set up the rig they use at every function, and put on a show which had nothing to do with what she wanted.

If I'm honest, the call on Monday night wasn't necessary to allow me to quote, for I already knew what that figure had to be, to make the effort worthwhile. I believe though that the call made me stand out from the herd, and that's the object of the exercise.


So, to summarise ( and those well accustomed to my long and wordy ramblings will already have cut straight to here. :D ) For all the requests where you won't be heartbroken if you don't get them, standard template reply, and if they wish to know more, they'll check your website, and/or contact you. If you really want the gig ( it's good money, it's local, whatever ) put the efort in. Personalise the reply, ring if at all possible. Expend your energy where it should do most good.
Please note, I'm not advocating sending out poor quotes to people. I'm suggesting you send out better ones where it's appropriate.

I'm going for a lie down now, this being serious is hard work!!

[AndyC]

Just landed my first one this year and for slightly more than the stated budget Happy days

[JAMdisco]

Boom! one more in the bag for 13th July.
I quoted significantly more than normal as venue is 38 miles away - wasn't really expecting the gig but an email from the client yesterday asking me to call her secured the booking (Sorry Peter, it's another 60th birthday with a lot of Tamla Motown on the cards)...

Contracts sent via echo-sign and deposit will be paid today by direct bank transfer.

Happy days.

[ukpartydj]

Recently I'm finding it's working great for last min filler gigs where people have been let down or left it very late!
Not having much luck with future bookings though :S

[djdj]

I am still on NAD
But have noticed a lot more DJ's quoting for the same jobs I am.
I am lucky that I work full time and have a regular Karaoke Venue lined up for Fri & Sat nites.
If I see a job that is local and doesnt involve too much effort I will quote for it. If I don't get it I usually find it is down to Price. :zip:

[funkymook]

If I see a job that is local and doesnt involve too much effort I will quote for it. If I don't get it I usually find it is down to Price. :zip:

How do you know?

[Vectis]

have noticed a lot more DJ's quoting for the same jobs I am.

Indeed. The average number of responses provided to each lead has increased from 5.9 at the beginning of 2012 to 6.1 at the beginning of 2013.

[JAMdisco]

If I see a job that is local and doesnt involve too much effort I will quote for it. If I don't get it I usually find it is down to Price. :zip:


How do you know?

My thoughts exactly! How can you tell unless you get a reply from the client specifying that.
I think it depends a lot on how you sell yourself, I've just secured another booking on a selling point I highlighted, it is less than their specified budget but still more than I would normally charge as it's a fair distance (76 mile round trip) so it's not always about price...

I also have regular work from my Thursday Quiz night and Friday residency so I generally only quote for Saturdays and some Sundays. This site has definitely got me dates that I wouldn't normally have got so a big THANK YOU to all involved in setting it up.

[djdj]

My thoughts exactly! How can you tell unless you get a reply from the client specifying that.
I think it depends a lot on how you sell yourself, I've just secured another booking on a selling point I highlighted, it is less than their specified budget but still more than I would normally charge as it's a fair distance (76 mile round trip) so it's not always about price...

I also have regular work from my Thursday Quiz night and Friday residency so I generally only quote for Saturdays and some Sundays. This site has definitely got me dates that I wouldn't normally have got so a big THANK YOU to all involved in setting it up.

You will note in my original post I have put 'usually' because I know that Price isn't always a factor.
I genrally only quote venues I know and what other DJ charge for that venue
BUT there are DJ's who are prepared to travel to venues in my local area and work for less than I would. FACT
I am not interested in price wars and am more than happy with not having to travel '76 miles for a gig that is less than the clients specified budget'

[funkymook]

You will note in my original post I have put 'usually' because I know that Price isn't always a factor.
I genrally only quote venues I know and what other DJ charge for that venue
BUT there are DJ's who are prepared to travel to venues in my local area and work for less than I would. FACT
I am not interested in price wars and am more than happy with not having to travel '76 miles for a gig that is less than the clients specified budget'

We only asked - FACT :D

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

You will note in my original post I have put 'usually' because I know that Price isn't always a factor.
I genrally only quote venues I know and what other DJ charge for that venue
BUT there are DJ's who are prepared to travel to venues in my local area and work for less than I would. FACT
I am not interested in price wars and am more than happy with not having to travel '76 miles for a gig that is less than the clients specified budget'

But that's not inherently a sign that you lost out because of the price. It might be that they've gone with a similarly priced DJ that has sold themselves or their service better than you in some way. If you knew that was the case, it's something you could look at altering.

FWIW I'd like to think that what I offer is reasonably priced for what I include and clients would be inclined to use me as opposed to someone else in a similar price bracket.

For people that are way below my price point, they don't offer anywhere near as much so I was never on the person who was bookings radar anyway.

[JAMdisco]

You will note in my original post I have put 'usually' because I know that Price isn't always a factor.
I genrally only quote venues I know and what other DJ charge for that venue
BUT there are DJ's who are prepared to travel to venues in my local area and work for less than I would. FACT
I am not interested in price wars and am more than happy with not having to travel '76 miles for a gig that is less than the clients specified budget'

Ey! No need to get smart, I was only saying.

Anyway I do a 60 mile round trip to work every day so 76 mile round trip isn't that bad and like I said, I've more than factored in the cost of fuel so I'm happy.

[Excalibur]

My thoughts exactly! How can you tell unless you get a reply from the client specifying that.
I think it depends a lot on how you sell yourself, I've just secured another booking on a selling point I highlighted,
.
Promising to turn up. Might have to try that, could be an USP.


it is less than their specified budget but still more than I would normally charge as it's a fair distance (76 mile round trip) so it's not always about price... .

Fair distance? :confused: Fair distance? :eek::eek: It's a hop skip and a jump. Blimey, I went further than that one way on Saturday.

[JAMdisco]

Promising to turn up. Might have to try that, could be an USP.

As daft as it sounds Peter, that's what "drew her to me" as she had a bad experience a few years ago with the DJ she booked not turning up and had to panic book someone through yellow pages. That's why she wanted to speak to me over the phone. I must have given good vibes and managed to reassure her that I would definitely turn up as she asked that question I so like to hear - "So, how do I book you?" :D :D :D

Money was in the bank last night and contract signed by both parties - looking forward to this one, approx 100 should turn up and she says they're "all up for a good dance" - let's hope so...



Fair distance? :confused: Fair distance? :eek::eek: It's a hop skip and a jump. Blimey, I went further than that one way on Saturday.

I agree it's not THAT far but (apart from Goole) I hardly ever venture further that 10 miles or so...

[JAMdisco]

May have secured another on through NaD, this time in Scarborough on 25th May (yes another one almost 35 miles away) - they've emailed me asking how they would pay and sort contracts, I've replied stating bank transfer and explaining how echo-sign works. I've asked for phone number as it was an email only response - fingers crossed they reply.

This coupled with my Thursday Quiz, Friday Residency, Saturday (in Scarborough) and the most expensive wedding I've ever done on Sunday will work out a very prosperous weekend :) May need to book Monday off work though - I'll be shattered lol

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

May have secured another on through NaD, this time in Scarborough on 25th May (yes another one almost 35 miles away) - they've emailed me asking how they would pay and sort contracts, I've replied stating bank transfer and explaining how echo-sign works. I've asked for phone number as it was an email only response - fingers crossed they reply.

This coupled with my Thursday Quiz, Friday Residency, Saturday (in Scarborough) and the most expensive wedding I've ever done on Sunday will work out a very prosperous weekend :) May need to book Monday off work though - I'll be shattered lol

That Monday is a bank holiday weekend up here so isn't it one down your end?

[JAMdisco]

That Monday is a bank holiday weekend up here so isn't it one down your end?

Hey, well spotted, yes it is (thank goodness - I'll need it lol)

[STEVE HANLEY]

Just converted one this morning a wedding in July. Not a massive payer but a fee I can happily work with and a lot more than Sid would charge. I've stopped replying to all the leads I receive from NAD and now I just pick and choose the ones I fancy. I find a much better conversion rate as a result.:beer1:

Certainly looks like this one has well and truly gone down the :Censored: Client said she was paying deposit (Sorry NRBF:) ) on Monday 4th March. Never happened. So I chased it via email that evening. Got reply back saying sorry couldn't get to bank today as my little boy has been poorly. ( Fair Do's) Several attempts to contact since then via different methods and she appears to have disappeared ( No pun intended:D:D) off the face of the earth.

Final email sent last night saying that if I hadn't anything by this Saturday I was letting the date go. Bloody damned annoying, but still never mind eh?:mad::mad:

[STEVE HANLEY]

Certainly looks like this one has well and truly gone down the :Censored: Client said she was paying deposit (Sorry NRBF:) ) on Monday 4th March. Never happened. So I chased it via email that evening. Got reply back saying sorry couldn't get to bank today as my little boy has been poorly. ( Fair Do's) Several attempts to contact since then via different methods and she appears to have disappeared ( No pun intended:D:D) off the face of the earth.

Final email sent last night saying that if I hadn't anything by this Saturday I was letting the date go. Bloody damned annoying, but still never mind eh?:mad::mad:

Went to chase up another today one who said they were booking me. Only to have the client tell me "Oh I'm sorry but the wedding has been cancelled. Sorry I've not been in touch to tell you" Yes of course you are. That's two in a month from NAD that's gone :Censored: up. To say I'm :Censored: off atm would be a :Censored: understatement

[SoundONE]

You could always look at it as a bonus, get to keep the deposit and take another gig on that date.

[STEVE HANLEY]

You could always look at it as a bonus, get to keep the deposit and take another gig on that date.

Unfortunately it was the deposit I was chasing

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Unfortunately it was the deposit I was chasing

What's your policy on deposits? Maybe tightening it up will leave you less open to having to deal with time wasters down the line.

[Vectis]

My brother-in-law manages a Tesco store, and we recently had a discussion about time wasters. Apparently, in real bricks-n-mortar shops they get their fair share of idiots and timewasters too.

Like the people who come in, load up a trolley full of stuff (including fresh and frozen, which then has to go to waste), dump it and walk out. Like the people who come in, grab a sandwich from the chiller and eat it whilst walking round, dumping the empty packet in a freezer cabinet, then walk out without paying or buying anything else. Like the slightly nutty woman who has an aversion to white toilet rolls - comes in every Tuesday morning and proceeds to pull them all off the shelf and throw them at staff who try to approach her... then cries 'rape' if anyone tries to accost her on the way out. ... the list goes on.

My point? Virtual or physical, there's a minority out there whose mission in life seems to be to make it difficult for others to go about their legitimate business. All businesses, giant conglomerate or sole trader, will unfortunately suffer these fools from time to time. :beer1:

[Excalibur]

What's your policy on deposits? Maybe tightening it up will leave you less open to having to deal with time wasters down the line.

Nice idea. Difficult to put into practice. If you've already got another firm enquiry lined up, you can play hardball. If not, "softly softly catchee monkey." A recent one of mine ended up paying only a couple of days before the event. ( Mind you, she did pay the full whack upfront, but it was a drawn out process. If it hadn't been for a Sunday, I'd have binned it. )

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Nice idea. Difficult to put into practice. If you've already got another firm enquiry lined up, you can play hardball. If not, "softly softly catchee monkey." A recent one of mine ended up paying only a couple of days before the event. ( Mind you, she did pay the full whack upfront, but it was a drawn out process. If it hadn't been for a Sunday, I'd have binned it. )

At the time of bookng clients are told their date is held for 7 days and if I don't have the deposit paid via BACS or a cheque returned with the contract (which also needs to be done within 7 days) then the date opens back up for other bookings.

9 times out of 10 that's what happens. I've got a client just now that is giving me a bit of a run around on account of her fiance's gran being ill. I've no way to know whether that's true or not but she's had the time to get the stuff in extended to this Thursday which she says she'll have it all sorted. If not, she'll get an e-mail telling her she can still book but the date is opened up again.

I'd honestly rather lose a gig than run about like a dancing monkey for someone who is going to hum and haw, :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored: you around and generally treat you like a mug. I do this for fun and the money is an added bonus so I appreciate some people want to take every gig but if that is the case, then it's an even better reason to get your booking process tightened up.

[STEVE HANLEY]

What's your policy on deposits? Maybe tightening it up will leave you less open to having to deal with time wasters down the line.

I'm fairly lenient towards deposits I.E I'm prepared to assume when the customer says they're going to pay the deposit, then they're actually going to do what they say they are.


[Like the slightly nutty woman who has an aversion to white toilet rolls - comes in every Tuesday morning and proceeds to pull them all off the shelf and throw them at staff who try to approach her... then cries 'rape' if anyone tries to accost her on the way out.]

:rofl::Laugh::Laugh: Awesome


[ "softly softly catchee monkey."]

Bang on the money Peter. As I suspected the one that had until yesterday to contact me.....Well of course the silence has been deafening. I'm in two minds whether to send another email to tell her that's it the date's gone. Cos if i do that I'm likely to lose my rag and go off on one:D:D

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

In an ideal world every1 who said they were going to book you would pay up there andthen but a slight nudge to get the finger out sometimes helps.

Anyone who says they'll book then don't follow through have probably cheaped out so there's no point stressing or exerting a tonne of energy chasing them up. It's their loss.

[STEVE HANLEY]

In an ideal world every1 who said they were going to book you would pay up there andthen but a slight nudge to get the finger out sometimes helps.

Anyone who says they'll book then don't follow through have probably cheaped out so there's no point stressing or exerting a tonne of energy chasing them up. It's their loss.

:like:

[Shaun]

What's your policy on deposits? Maybe tightening it up will leave you less open to having to deal with time wasters down the line.I'm sure I've mentioned my policy before. :sofa:

I don't send the contract until the deposit is paid. So in essence, I don't hold the date for any amount of time without an initial payment. Works for me. :zip:

[Excalibur]

I'm sure I've mentioned my policy before. :sofa:

I don't send the contract until the deposit is paid. So in essence, I don't hold the date for any amount of time without an initial payment. Works for me. :zip:

And I chastised you for pursuing such a mercenary and mistrustful policy.








And then I had a customer who promised to pay on more than one occasion, changed her story, and generally was a pain in the bottom. Shaun, I don't agree with your policy, but I can now see its merits, and humbly apologise to you for criticising you over it.

[JAMdisco]

Well, the disco on the 25th May has gone, similar thing, gave them a week to pay deposit (after he asked for contract to be sent). I got another enquiry for same date so gave him a few more days but heard nothing. I emailed him to tell him (for the 3rd time) that it was now cancelled and the other client booked me.

I got a reply a few days later saying that he had been away and only just got the emails I sent, he was understanding though and saw it from my point of view so no hardship. I wished him all the well for his party (no point burning bridges in this game).

Just as a side note, I too mainly send out the contract AFTER the deposit (NRBF) has been paid but in this instance he specifically wanted to see the t&c's before committing.

[funkymook]

Just as a side note, I too mainly send out the contract AFTER the deposit (NRBF) has been paid but in this instance he specifically wanted to see the t&c's before committing.

I wouldn't pay a deposit to anyone without seeing the contract and T&C's first.

My contract/booking form and payment details are sent out at the same time and it's made clear that until the deposit is received the date is not confirmed.

Though by the time I've reached this stage there has been an agreement to book (either verbally or by email) so I've never had anyone delay paying the deposit/booking fee.

[Shaun]

Just as a side note, I too mainly send out the contract AFTER the deposit (NRBF) has been paid but in this instance he specifically wanted to see the t&c's before committing.

Thats fair enough. I always make a copy of the T&C's available before they pay any fee anyway. The contract however is only sent after the initial payment.

[JAMdisco]

Thats fair enough. I always make a copy of the T&C's available before they pay any fee anyway. The contract however is only sent after the initial payment.

Fair point but my T&C's are on my website which I'm sure most of your are...

90% of the time, no one bats an eye at paying first - usually a fair bit of communication can work wonders.

[Excalibur]

I wouldn't pay a deposit to anyone without seeing the contract and T&C's first.
A perfectly sensible stance.


My contract/booking form and payment details are sent out at the same time and it's made clear that until the deposit is received the date is not confirmed.
.
Pretty much my policy.


Thats fair enough. I always make a copy of the T&C's available before they pay any fee anyway. The contract however is only sent after the initial payment.

Shaun, your system obviously works fine for you and your customers, and if it isn't broke, doesn't require fixing. While I agree that it has much to commend it, I shall not be following your lead any time soon. Each to his own.

[paulg]

A perfectly sensible stance.


Pretty much my policy.



Shaun, your system obviously works fine for you and your customers, and if it isn't broke, doesn't require fixing. While I agree that it has much to commend it, I shall not be following your lead any time soon. Each to his own.

Ah, the joys of contracts, T&C's and deposits. Secured yet another wedding booking at the weekend on the basis that there is no contract to sign, no deposit to pay (it's better in their pocket than mine), payment can be made right up to the start of the event and they can cancel at any time without incurring a charge. I genuinely think many people prefer these sorts of terms.

[funkymook]

Ah, the joys of contracts, T&C's and deposits. Secured yet another wedding booking at the weekend on the basis that there is no contract to sign, no deposit to pay (it's better in their pocket than mine), payment can be made right up to the start of the event and they can cancel at any time without incurring a charge. I genuinely think many people prefer these sorts of terms.

That's a great selling point. You can cancel me at a moments notice if you find someone cheaper/better etc.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

That's a great selling point. You can cancel me at a moments notice if you find someone cheaper/better etc.

And it also gives the client a nice secure feeling, knowing that the DJ might not actually turn up as there's no contract...

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Ah, the joys of contracts, T&C's and deposits. Secured yet another wedding booking at the weekend on the basis that there is no contract to sign, no deposit to pay (it's better in their pocket than mine), payment can be made right up to the start of the event and they can cancel at any time without incurring a charge. I genuinely think many people prefer these sorts of terms.

I'm not being funny but that sounds like a terrible way to do business and personally I'd never book any sort of entertainment without a contract even if you don't take a deposit.

It's no coincidence that the vast majority of no shows that happen to operate around here have no contract.

[paulg]

And it also gives the client a nice secure feeling, knowing that the DJ might not actually turn up as there's no contract...

and what says they will turn up even with a contract? a double whammy when a customer has forked out for a deposit or paid in full.

A confirmation email suffices - people have phone contacts, addresses etc

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

and what says they will turn up even with a contract? a double whammy when a customer has forked out for a deposit or paid in full.


A contract is there to look after both parties and has to be fair to both parties.

[funkymook]

and what says they will turn up even with a contract? a double whammy when a customer has forked out for a deposit or paid in full.

A confirmation email suffices - people have phone contacts, addresses etc

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't sound like you do this full time (as in it's your main source of income).

Nothing wrong with part time/hobbyists at all, many offer a very professional service, but often the business side isn't given the same attention as the show.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

and what says they will turn up even with a contract? a double whammy when a customer has forked out for a deposit or paid in full.

A confirmation email suffices - people have phone contacts, addresses etc

A decent contract will outline exactly what recourse there is in the event that I have to cancel or can't make it to the gig so there's a come back for the customer.

Without a contract, there's nothing stopping me deciding I'm a bit tired and can't be arsed with a gig so I'm not going to bother turning up etc...

[paulg]

I'm sorry chaps but I have to take exception with you. There is a world of difference between a fair contract and the often officious nonsense that is being passed off as a contract by many. People respond positively to not having a 'contract' when it is pointed out that the alternative is usually something that ties them into some fairly unreasonable clauses. Hence, my customers always get a confirmation email (or a letter if they prefer) that contains addresses, phone no's etc., but no contract to sign.

On the rare occasion that anyone mentions a contract, I strongly advise customers not to enter into one unless they have considered the fairness and legality of the content. Most DJ contracts I've read through tend to quote force majeur, unforeseen circumstances or even vehicle breakdown as reasons not to turn up and they are invariably heavily stacked in favour of the DJ). So they are not really worth the paper they are written on and even worse, a customer is often being asked to sign away statutory rights. Some of the contracts that, for example, hold the customer liable for damage to equipment by guests or for identifying people with epilepsy (yep, that's a real one) are barely enforceable. There is an amount of amateur 'legalese' on show that stems from years of cut and paste from one website to another! I read one that says if the company (that'll usually mean one man sole trader then) cancels, any deposit paid is not refundable!! That one would crumble under the lightest of legal scrutiny!

The flexible cancellation on offer is also well received. If something unforeseen happens and they need to cancel, why should my customer be penalised and, if they want to cut costs or indeed can find someone better - what's the issue with that?

To demonstrate, try this: Google "DJ Terms and Conditions" or "DJ Contract" and see how many actually offer the customer much protection other than 'if we don't turn up we'll try to get a replacement, if we can't we'll give you your money back'. Some don't even stretch to that. So, it's a bit rich talking about giving clients a 'secure feeling'.

[funkymook]

I'm sorry chaps but I have to take exception with you. There is a world of difference between a fair contract and the often officious nonsense that is being passed off as a contract by many. People respond positively to not having a 'contract' when it is pointed out that the alternative is usually something that ties them into some fairly unreasonable clauses. Hence, my customers always get a confirmation email (or a letter if they prefer) that contains addresses, phone no's etc., but no contract to sign.

On the rare occasion that anyone mentions a contract, I strongly advise customers not to enter into one unless they have considered the fairness and legality of the content. Most DJ contracts I've read through tend to quote force majeur, unforeseen circumstances or even vehicle breakdown as reasons not to turn up and they are invariably heavily stacked in favour of the DJ). So they are not really worth the paper they are written on and even worse, a customer is often being asked to sign away statutory rights. Some of the contracts that, for example, hold the customer liable for damage to equipment by guests or for identifying people with epilepsy (yep, that's a real one) are barely enforceable. There is an amount of amateur 'legalese' on show that stems from years of cut and paste from one website to another! I read one that says if the company (that'll usually mean one man sole trader then) cancels, any deposit paid is not refundable!! That one would crumble under the lightest of legal scrutiny!

The flexible cancellation on offer is also well received. If something unforeseen happens and they need to cancel, why should my customer be penalised and, if they want to cut costs or indeed can find someone better - what's the issue with that?

To demonstrate, try this: Google "DJ Terms and Conditions" or "DJ Contract" and see how many actually offer the customer much protection other than 'if we don't turn up we'll try to get a replacement, if we can't we'll give you your money back'. Some don't even stretch to that. So, it's a bit rich talking about giving clients a 'secure feeling'.

So why don't you offer a 'fair contract' if you know so much about unfair ones? And conditions are always open to discretion in genuine cases.

The issue with people carrying on shopping after agreeing to book a DJ offering your terms is they may end up with no gig and no fee with no time left to find a replacement gig - how is that fair to the DJ?

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I'm sorry chaps but I have to take exception with you. There is a world of difference between a fair contract and the often officious nonsense that is being passed off as a contract by many. People respond positively to not having a 'contract' when it is pointed out that the alternative is usually something that ties them into some fairly unreasonable clauses. Hence, my customers always get a confirmation email (or a letter if they prefer) that contains addresses, phone no's etc., but no contract to sign.

On the rare occasion that anyone mentions a contract, I strongly advise customers not to enter into one unless they have considered the fairness and legality of the content. Most DJ contracts I've read through tend to quote force majeur, unforeseen circumstances or even vehicle breakdown as reasons not to turn up and they are invariably heavily stacked in favour of the DJ). So they are not really worth the paper they are written on and even worse, a customer is often being asked to sign away statutory rights. Some of the contracts that, for example, hold the customer liable for damage to equipment by guests or for identifying people with epilepsy (yep, that's a real one) are barely enforceable. There is an amount of amateur 'legalese' on show that stems from years of cut and paste from one website to another! I read one that says if the company (that'll usually mean one man sole trader then) cancels, any deposit paid is not refundable!! That one would crumble under the lightest of legal scrutiny!

The flexible cancellation on offer is also well received. If something unforeseen happens and they need to cancel, why should my customer be penalised and, if they want to cut costs or indeed can find someone better - what's the issue with that?

To demonstrate, try this: Google "DJ Terms and Conditions" or "DJ Contract" and see how many actually offer the customer much protection other than 'if we don't turn up we'll try to get a replacement, if we can't we'll give you your money back'. Some don't even stretch to that. So, it's a bit rich talking about giving clients a 'secure feeling'.


A decent contract is mutually beneficial to both parties so there's no reason at all not to have one and if nothing else, it makes you look professional. The only time I ever hear about guys who don't have contracts to sign it's usually part of a frantic phone call to see if I can cover a no show or a cancellation.



I'm struggling to see how clauses about breakages or epilepsy are unenforceable.

My t&c's state that in the case of theft or breakages due to the client or any of their guests, the client is responsible for any repair or replacement costs. How is that unenforcible? If you hired a car, didn't take out insurance and it broke, you can bet you'd be paying for the repairs. Thankfully I've never had to rely on this but a few weeks back a bunch of brats wouldn't keep away from my gear. I spoke to their parents and they did nothing. I then had a quick word with the client who booked me mentioning that clause and a brief insight into the kind of money was in each bit of gear and they were quickly put on a short leash...

I also mention that there will be the use of lighting and lasers which may affect people with pre-existing medical conditions. All that does is cover my back in case anything hppens to anyone. It's there in black and white that they were made aware of the possible issues.

[funkymook]

Can't find any reference to the no deposit/no contract on your site - so do you use it as a selling point when they contact you, perhaps a bit of scaremongering about other DJ's contracts?

[paulg]

Can't find any reference to the no deposit/no contract on your site - so do you use it as a selling point when they contact you, perhaps a bit of scaremongering about other DJ's contracts?

When all is said and done, the law sets out what is a fair contract for both parties.

Fair to the DJ? No, not at all but it's my risk. I wish I could make it fairer for the customer because for them, its still Hobsons choice - between no obligation or being tied in to a 'contract' that invariably doesn't address their main fears either (e.g. a no show!). Both are little more than good intentions and promises.

A customer makes a choice based on part logical assessment and part intuition and they are unlikely to change it without good reason so contractual reinforcement isn't necessary.

I have a second wedding dj website under development that does refer specifically to no 'contracts' but it doesn't sacremonger. I suppose it sows the seed of doubt but I won't have to rely on negatives.

[funkymook]

When all is said and done, the law sets out what is a fair contract for both parties.

Fair to the DJ? No, not at all but it's my risk. I wish I could make it fairer for the customer because for them, its still Hobsons choice - between no obligation or being tied in to a 'contract' that invariably doesn't address their main fears either (e.g. a no show!). Both are little more than good intentions and promises.

A customer makes a choice based on part logical assessment and part intuition and they are unlikely to change it without good reason so contractual reinforcement isn't necessary.

I have a second wedding dj website under development that does refer specifically to no 'contracts' but it doesn't sacremonger. I suppose it sows the seed of doubt but I won't have to rely on negatives.

So you confirm dates, times, venue and what you're supplying (in the case of extras like moonlighting etc) in writing (or email) with the client - you just don't take any payment upfront or have any T&C's - is that about right?

Is it done on a form, as in a standard format, you use every time?

[paulg]

A decent contract is mutually beneficial to both parties so there's no reason at all not to have one and if nothing else, it makes you look professional. The only time I ever hear about guys who don't have contracts to sign it's usually part of a frantic phone call to see if I can cover a no show or a cancellation.



I'm struggling to see how clauses about breakages or epilepsy are unenforceable.

My t&c's state that in the case of theft or breakages due to the client or any of their guests, the client is responsible for any repair or replacement costs. How is that unenforcible? If you hired a car, didn't take out insurance and it broke, you can bet you'd be paying for the repairs. Thankfully I've never had to rely on this but a few weeks back a bunch of brats wouldn't keep away from my gear. I spoke to their parents and they did nothing. I then had a quick word with the client who booked me mentioning that clause and a brief insight into the kind of money was in each bit of gear and they were quickly put on a short leash...

I also mention that there will be the use of lighting and lasers which may affect people with pre-existing medical conditions. All that does is cover my back in case anything hppens to anyone. It's there in black and white that they were made aware of the possible issues.

I'm about to tuck into a couple of bottles of Trappistes Rochefort 10. Keyboard will become blurred and words slurred so, last one tonight. It's been a lively debate. Different opinions but I guess it's all about doing what you think is best.

For breakages you should have insurance. You can't pass liability on to your customer for something you could reasonably foresee and take mitigation. If someone knocked over a speaker, the person who booked you is no more liable for the damage than I am. You can't invent your own law via a hastily written T&C. You would first have to prove that the individual who did knock it over did so with malice or intent and was at fault. Then you would have to recover costs via a court. You would be able to do that without a contract but it would be time consuming and expensive. It doesn't matter what your T&C's say, if it's unreasonable then its not enforceable. Tip: Do you have equipment insurance? If not, get some. Problem solved, one less T&C.

Now, if I had booked you and you wanted to blame me for someone elses unruly children, I would be non too happy. Frankly, I would interpret what you suggested as a bit threatening against me and my guests. If you have kit where children could possibly damage it (and more importantly themselves), the answer is to shift it, quickly.

For medical conditions, you have again shouldered your customer with a liability that is yours to determine and mitigate. How could you possibly expect your customer to know about every guests' medical history. Should they issue health screening forms with party invites? You are the one in control of the lighting and the duty of care lies firmly with you (and possibly the venue). If in doubt, don't use it. In reality, people with medical conditions that may be triggered by lighting will usually make themselves known or won't attend. They know what a disco entails and their health is more of a priority. Making a claim against you would be quite difficult for them to justify. Again, another T&C you could probably dispense with.

Putting something in black and white doesn't cover your back if it's not reasoned and justified. You do not live in your own kingdom!

Another post suggested that unreasonable DJ's T&C's could be used to scaremonger and I think it was a very pertinent point. It made me think, when talking to clients could I suggest ..."did you you know that DJ xx holds you responsible for damage caused by your guests....even young children....normally insurance covers that but it seems like he might not have any..etc etc etc...on the other hand we don't do anything like that, we just want you to relax and enjoy your night". Trust me though, criticising other DJ's is not my way.

T&C's are not the way to protect me or my customers either. It's best to stop problems in the first place.

Funkymook - it's just an enquiry form on my www.ardsleyentertainments.co.uk website.

[funkymook]

Funkymook - it's just an enquiry form on my www.ardsleyentertainments.co.uk website.

Only reason I ask is I wonder what your clients think they have from you? Do they believe they have any legal recourse if you don't turn up? (and advising them you have back-up DJ's etc is also just promises which could turn out to be as empty as any contract).

An initial payment covers me for any preparation expenses I've incurred, usually a good few hours of emailing, phone calls, compiling example music lists, a meeting, sometimes a separate venue visit - I feel perfectly justified in having some payment up front in case of cancellation because I've already earned it before the event. Because money has changed hands an invoice and receipt has also been issued - again I'd be wary myself giving anyone payment without something in writing acknowledging it.

I doubt any of my bookings would've gone wrong if I didn't follow my process and did cash on the night and email confirmations - but personally I hate getting the money in cash at a gig (especially a wedding) and I know for a fact several clients wouldn't have booked me as a cash in hand operator, to them it comes across as untrustworthy, under the tax radar etc. Not suggesting anyone on here is like that of course, that's just the perception a few people have had when I've chatted to them after they'd booked me.

If I was that way inclined that could also be a seed to plant in the minds of prospective clients, 'cash on the night, no signed contract - draw your own conclusions!'. But I prefer to only talk about myself and their event, I think it creates a better impression.

[JAMdisco]

Sorry Paul but you really do surprise me (by the way, maybe we should start a new thread as this has very little to do with NaD).

I'm sure most people have equipment insurance and PLI these days but you seem to forget the majority of incidents happen when people are inebriated - an unfortunate side of our job. You must have witnessed p***ed up people staggering around and if they knock a speaker over it probably wasn't intentional so I think there is no reason why this shouldn't be covered by the client.

Also, you say that if something can be knocked/damaged by children or harm themselves to move it!!! Not always possible, where would you move a speaker or DJ booth if the set-up area was a small area on the same level or next to the dance floor (a lot of venues are like this). Great if you have a stage / raised area but not possible in most venues.

I have only ever done one disco without a contract as it was a next day booking for his daughters 13th birthday (original DJ cancelled - you're not far from me are you :P) and it was before the days of echo-sign so I told him the full amount would be payable at the start of the disco and he needed to sign the contract at the same time. Luckily it all worked out ok and he was more than happy to sign (and yes, he read it all while I started setting up).

I have never had a client not sign a contract due to any specific clause as I tell them, it's to protect themselves as much as myself / business.

Let's say you turn up to an unknown venue and the access points are up a narrow fire escape (yes, I've had this), through a narrow door, down a corridor up another 2 flights of stairs then across a large hall right in the corner... then you find that the power points are at the other side of the room? If this had not been mentioned and you were caught in a traffic jam on the way (unforeseen) and you started an hour late - what then? My contract covers me for all this as why should I take a cut in wages for issues beyond my control. It's still a full nights work.

There's so many things that can happen at an event and 99% of the time things run without a hitch, but there's always that one gig where everything goes wrong (we've probably all been there)

Every other professional industry (especially if providing a service) have terms & conditions, why should we be any different?

As for no deposit or non-refundable booking fee - try and book a holiday and say you'll pay for the flight when you're sat on the plane? I think you would get some funny looks...

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Sorry Paul but you really do surprise me (by the way, maybe we should start a new thread as this has very little to do with NaD).

I'm sure most people have equipment insurance and PLI these days but you seem to forget the majority of incidents happen when people are inebriated - an unfortunate side of our job. You must have witnessed p***ed up people staggering around and if they knock a speaker over it probably wasn't intentional so I think there is no reason why this shouldn't be covered by the client.

Also, you say that if something can be knocked/damaged by children or harm themselves to move it!!! Not always possible, where would you move a speaker or DJ booth if the set-up area was a small area on the same level or next to the dance floor (a lot of venues are like this). Great if you have a stage / raised area but not possible in most venues.

I have only ever done one disco without a contract as it was a next day booking for his daughters 13th birthday (original DJ cancelled - you're not far from me are you :P) and it was before the days of echo-sign so I told him the full amount would be payable at the start of the disco and he needed to sign the contract at the same time. Luckily it all worked out ok and he was more than happy to sign (and yes, he read it all while I started setting up).

I have never had a client not sign a contract due to any specific clause as I tell them, it's to protect themselves as much as myself / business.

Let's say you turn up to an unknown venue and the access points are up a narrow fire escape (yes, I've had this), through a narrow door, down a corridor up another 2 flights of stairs then across a large hall right in the corner... then you find that the power points are at the other side of the room? If this had not been mentioned and you were caught in a traffic jam on the way (unforeseen) and you started an hour late - what then? My contract covers me for all this as why should I take a cut in wages for issues beyond my control. It's still a full nights work.

There's so many things that can happen at an event and 99% of the time things run without a hitch, but there's always that one gig where everything goes wrong (we've probably all been there)

Every other professional industry (especially if providing a service) have terms & conditions, why should we be any different?

As for no deposit or non-refundable booking fee - try and book a holiday and say you'll pay for the flight when you're sat on the plane? I think you would get some funny looks...

You've said just about everything I would.

I have insurance but why should I be forced to claim and bump up mine (and other DJs) premiums because some drunk idiot has decided he wanted to fall into my speakers or a parent won't keep their kids under control? At the end of the day, no one has ever had an issue with that clause and if they did, I would refuse the gig as it completely alleviates them and their guests of any liability. What if a massive rammy kicked off and my full rig got done in, am I just supposed to claim / replace it all out of my own pocket?

As for the epilepsy clause. how many gigs, TV shows, films etc... have you been to where you're warning "contains flashing images" or something to that nature? That is the provider covering there back as they have let it be known that potential harm could result in some cases due to their show / performance. This is exactly the same. It's not going to stop people taking epilctic fits but even though I don't use strobes or anything that potentially could set a fit off, I've at least warned the client that the potential is there for something to go wrong.

You seem to be missing the point about the contract being mutually beneficial to both parties. A lack of contract is equally mutually beneficial but in the sense that there's nothing stopping you not turning up or them client ripping you off.

If you have your booking form / confirmation e-mail and use this as proof of how long you've to play for, what services or extras you provide etc... then you do have a contract albeit a basic one.


You're more than entitled to your own opinion and can run your company the way you want but I'd be inclined to assume that the kind of people who would book a DJ on the selling point that he doesn't have a contract probably aren't the kind of gigs or clients that I'd be interested in dealing with.

[Corabar Steve]

I have to say that aside from coming down on the side of those in favour of contracts (& agreeing with them wholeheartedly), I've not read such piffle, popycock, balderdash & flapdoodle on this forum since the days of black & white stripey DJ & the weakest link.

How could anyone feel more secure about booking somebody for an important event without a contract than somebody with one‽

[Vectis]

maybe we should start a new thread as this has very little to do with NaD

Please don't :) NaD and DJmark are all about professional standards and helping / coercing folks to raise their game, so I'm happy for them to be associated with this debate.

[Excalibur]

Please don't :) NaD and DJmark are all about professional standards and helping / coercing folks to raise their game, so I'm happy for them to be associated with this debate.

I'm glad you said that , because as Justin stated, I thought we had gone off at a tangent in a big way, and when I'd worked up a sufficient head of steam, I was going to try to split the latest posts off into a new topic. Now I don't have to. :)


Right, cards on the table. As the biggest Poacher turned Gamekeeper round here, I'll admit that I have venues where the booking process is a phone call asking if I'm free on that date, and if I'm lucky, an indication of what the function is. I know the venues of course, and know the likely times, and the procedure, so everyone is happy. Except me, if the gig gets cancelled of course, and that's a big risk to take.

I have regular customers who will only need a phone call or an email to set everything up, but again, I know them well, and for some of them, cancellation charges have been, and will be applied, as both sides know beforehand.

Doing this with someone I have never had any contact with is fraught with possible pitfalls, and I now try to avoid this where possible.

In an age where electronic transactions are becoming the norm, I think most customers are reassured by having a document stating that a DJ is contracted to turn up at a stated venue on a stated date, and provide a stated service for a stated fee.( I reckon most of them wouldn't be happy to book without one. ) I'm reassured by the same piece of paper detailing when I need to arrive, when I need access, how long I'm going to play, and for how much money. Once both DJ and Client have established the basics, the minutiae can usually be negotiated on site. Without a "frank exchange of views". ;) Usually. It's a two way street.

There you go, dirty linen aired in public. I sometimes follow the practice outlined by Paul, but I don't advocate it, in fact it's a case of "Do as I say, not as I do. ". In many ways, the absence of a contract reinforces the oft held view that we're all amateurs, who turn up and trouser a wad of the folding stuff ( without informing HMRC ) for nothing other than having a good time pressing play.

[paulg]

I have to say that aside from coming down on the side of those in favour of contracts (& agreeing with them wholeheartedly), I've not read such piffle, popycock, balderdash & flapdoodle on this forum since the days of black & white stripey DJ & the weakest link.

How could anyone feel more secure about booking somebody for an important event without a contract than somebody with one‽

Weakest link. Pointless more like

[DazzyD]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't sound like you do this full time (as in it's your main source of income).

Nothing wrong with part time/hobbyists at all, many offer a very professional service, but often the business side isn't given the same attention as the show.

Hey!! I'm only part-time and I operate as a professional project. I always have done. The reason I set up on my own was that I spent years working for multi-ops who didn't act this way and when shows were cancelled at the last minute I was always the one to lose out. I also saw a look of people disappointed as their booking wasn't what they'd expected or had even failed to turn up. I decided then that I'd be operating as a business, i.e. to make some money, whilst at the same time giving the client a good experience from the inital enquiry right through to the after-show follow-up. Customer satisfaction is everything!


I have to say that aside from coming down on the side of those in favour of contracts (& agreeing with them wholeheartedly), I've not read such piffle, popycock, balderdash & flapdoodle on this forum since the days of black & white stripey DJ & the weakest link.

How could anyone feel more secure about booking somebody for an important event without a contract than somebody with one‽

Now there's a blast from the past!! :eek:


Weakest link. Pointless more like

:whoosh:

I don't think Steve was encouraging a discussion about random TV game shows!! ;)

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Hey!! I'm only part-time and I operate as a professional project. I always have done. The reason I set up on my own was that I spent years working for multi-ops who didn't act this way and when shows were cancelled at the last minute I was always the one to lose out. I also saw a look of people disappointed as their booking wasn't what they'd expected or had even failed to turn up. I decided then that I'd be operating as a business, i.e. to make some money, whilst at the same time giving the client a good experience from the inital enquiry right through to the after-show follow-up. Customer satisfaction is everything!


That's the exact same reason I decided to go off on my own and start my own business!!
I do think there is a bit of snobbery when it comes to the old Full-Time v Part-Time thing (don't worry, I aint going down that avenue again).
At this time of the year I am usually quite busy. This week I have 4 functions on but it's been relatively quiet. This has been my sole income now for 8 years and I am used to the way of life and routine. I don't think I'd have the energy to work in the day and do this aswell. I'm not saying everyone is like it but I do worry that my standards and dedication would slip if I were to do both.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

For breakages you should have insurance. You can't pass liability on to your customer for something you could reasonably foresee and take mitigation. If someone knocked over a speaker, the person who booked you is no more liable for the damage than I am.

Sorry Paul, but you are completely wrong. I have just had my T&Cs reviewed by Trading Standards and they are very hot on things like this.

So in the same respect, if you book a venue and it gets smashed up by a party go-er, then the venue will just claim on insurance will they? Or will they go to the person who booked the party? The next time someone damages your property or car etc, you will be claiming on your own insurance rather than the person who did the damage will you?

What a decent man you are.

[paulg]

What a decent man you are.

I know.

[bmdj]

Sorry Paul, but you are completely wrong. I have just had my T&Cs reviewed by Trading Standards and they are very hot on things like this.

So in the same respect, if you book a venue and it gets smashed up by a party go-er, then the venue will just claim on insurance will they? Or will they go to the person who booked the party? The next time someone damages your property or car etc, you will be claiming on your own insurance rather than the person who did the damage will you?

What a decent man you are.

You would claim from your own insurance policy, it would then be up to the insurance company to chase for compensation from the third party.

Out of interest who in Trading standards did you consult? Was this your local office? Do you have a copy of the review or how did they review it? Might be useful to others if you can give more info on how you went about getting them to review your T&C's and what was actually said.

I've joined this discussion late in the day, has anyone actually had there T&C and contracts drawn up by a legal person? If you have then again details for us all would be usefull.
PaulG raises some very valid points about contract and their actual validity if they would actually be practically and legally enforceable, considering the relatively small financial sums involved.

[Corabar Steve]

Weakest link. Pointless more like



Now there's a blast from the past!! :eek:



:whoosh:

I don't think Steve was encouraging a discussion about random TV game shows!! ;)
Correct. Those that can figure out / remember who I was refering to will remember that was the sort of nonsense they spouted too.

[DazzyD]

You would claim from your own insurance policy, it would then be up to the insurance company to chase for compensation from the third party.

Out of interest who in Trading standards did you consult? Was this your local office? Do you have a copy of the review or how did they review it? Might be useful to others if you can give more info on how you went about getting them to review your T&C's and what was actually said.

I've joined this discussion late in the day, has anyone actually had there T&C and contracts drawn up by a legal person? If you have then again details for us all would be usefull.
PaulG raises some very valid points about contract and their actual validity if they would actually be practically and legally enforceable, considering the relatively small financial sums involved.

As Daz said, if the venue was smashed up by the guests, who would the venue be chasing for recompense? I guarantee you it will be the person who booked the venue in the first place. If the same thing happened to us - ie guests causing damage to our equipment - why should we be different? We shouldn't be and a decent, correctly-worded paragraph in our contracts (or T&Cs or whatever else you wish to call them) will offer some legal protection to us should this situation occur.

Contracts are a vital tool for anyone who takes money to provide a service as they set out exactly what both sides expect of the other. A contract that is not deemed as "unfair" under The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and also The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 is fully enforceable in a court of law. I've no idea where this idea that contracts cannot be enforced comes from. In my mind, it shows little understanding of the Acts and Regulations that we're bound by as "traders" or businesses in the service industry. And, from "little understanding", often comes misinformation right up to scaremongering (both of which have been evident in this very thread). For the last couple of years I've been using the fact that I work with contracts as a major selling point as it gives clients more peace of mind that I am going to turn up (I actually guarantee this via a "special guarantee" in my contract which covers this).

Has the contract I use been drawn up a legal person? Not quite. I developed the contract myself (I have a decent knowledge of the legal issues that surround contract law although I'm not a "qualified" legal person). However, my contract has been reviewed and approved by my own solicitor which is a step that was necessary for me to include the special guarantee previously mentioned. In fact, my solicitor had suggested that my contract was a little bit too biased towards the client and that maybe a couple of paragraphs should be rewritten to redress the balance. I decided not to do this as it already contains all the safeguards that I need to be in place.

But a point to remember is that a really good contract should be a "work in progress" - ie one that can be adjusted over time. It's highly unlikely that you'll cover everything in the first draft and, as this is a changing industry, the contract needs to be able to reflect this as time goes on.

[JAMdisco]

Sorry to waver off into the territory of 'on-topic'ness :p:

Just taken another booking through NaD - same venue I will be doing a very expensive wedding on 26th May : Royal York Hotel (the one with the 'big wheel' in the grounds).
It's a charity fundraiser but still getting quite a good fee for the stated 3 hours (almost same as a 'normal' disco). He's asked if he can pay the deposit in May as he needs to get posters and tickets printed but he has already got 50 definite confirmed.

Back to subject of contracts, I've emailed an echo-sign contract which I've asked him to sign then the date will be booked 'subject to deposit received'

There is no way I would ever work without a contract...

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

You would claim from your own insurance policy, it would then be up to the insurance company to chase for compensation from the third party.

Out of interest who in Trading standards did you consult? Was this your local office? Do you have a copy of the review or how did they review it? Might be useful to others if you can give more info on how you went about getting them to review your T&C's and what was actually said.



If people want to get their companies and businesses practices reviewed and become Trading Standards approved, then read here http://www.buywithconfidence.gov.uk/sitepages/bwchome.aspx

As for your other claim, this might happen for car insurance, but not for damage to gear etc. I have had several things damaged over the years where the client has paid for it directly to me. It might be different for others of course.

[DazzyD]

If people want to get their companies and businesses practices reviewed and become Trading Standards approved, then read here http://www.buywithconfidence.gov.uk/sitepages/bwchome.aspx

...

I notice that this is a local scheme operated by Hampshire Trading Standards. I've never heard of this before so I'm wondering if there's a national scheme or equivalent?

[Vectis]

Yes. Ish. It WILL be national, but it being rolled out gradually.

Some areas have limited 'trades' that they will vet whereas others will take anyone who qualifies. Some areas will take applications from neighbouring areas where a scheme isn't currently running. And the cost, vetting process and entry requirements differ from one authority to the next.

Some schemes are run by local councils, others by county councils, often with some overlap. Responsibility for the local schemes lies with local Trading Standards ... so if your area isn't already covered then lobbying may help.


www.buywithconfidence.gov.uk

[paulg]

I have to say that aside from coming down on the side of those in favour of contracts (& agreeing with them wholeheartedly), I've not read such piffle, popycock, balderdash & flapdoodle on this forum since the days of black & white stripey DJ & the weakest link.

How could anyone feel more secure about booking somebody for an important event without a contract than somebody with one‽


But your own T&C's offer your customers next to nothing. They do however try to exonerate you from virtually any responsibility from theft to physical harm to guests. They allow you to not turn up by just offering a refund as settlement. They let you change equipment and DJ's from that promised. In fact, it's as though you are have taken such high ground that you feel entitled to do, say or act in whatever way you want without any consequence or challenge. In reality, you're offering no better terms or security to a customer than those offered by a DJ who takes cash on the night.

[DJ Jules]

But your own T&C's offer your customers next to nothing. They do however try to exonerate you from virtually any responsibility from theft to physical harm to guests. They allow you to not turn up by just offering a refund as settlement. They let you change equipment and DJ's from that promised. In fact, it's as though you are have taken such high ground that you feel entitled to do, say or act in whatever way you want without any consequence or challenge. In reality, you're offering no better terms or security to a customer than those offered by a DJ who takes cash on the night.

At least with a contract there is a clear statement of responsibilities and expectations - even if they also do a good job of limiting liability for the DJ.

Now I don't know this for sure (I expect someone on here can probably clarify), but my understanding is that if you don't have a written contract to supply services then you're operating under an "implied contract" anyway, which then leaves it down to a judge to decide what was or was not reasonable for the customer to expect from your behaviour (and vice versa). Coming back to one of your earlier points, I think you'd find that most judges would expect the person who contracted your services to be responsible for any damage to your equipment incurred during your contract (or turning this argument the other way, it would be reasonable for the DJ to expect their equipment not to be damaged by the customer or their guests during the course of the event).

Likewise though if you have "unreasonable" terms in your contract you'd find them unenforceable.

What I still don't understand is how you (or your customers) think that you're better protected if there is no written statement of how you expect you and your client to behave? What is there to stop you from deciding not to turn up and leaving the customer in the lurch? What guarantees have you given the customer other than a booking confirmation email or letter?

What would you fall back on if you had no contract in place, had a genuine breakdown that left you unable to attend the event and then had a client claim against you for costs other than your fee (e.g. venue hire, buffet, loss of income for a charity function, reputational loss for a commercial event, etc, etc?) Do you think you'd be able to effectively defend yourself from this kind of claim?

Julian

[Corabar Steve]

But your own T&C's offer your customers next to nothing. They do however try to exonerate you from virtually any responsibility from theft to physical harm to guests. They allow you to not turn up by just offering a refund as settlement. They let you change equipment and DJ's from that promised. In fact, it's as though you are have taken such high ground that you feel entitled to do, say or act in whatever way you want without any consequence or challenge. In reality, you're offering no better terms or security to a customer than those offered by a DJ who takes cash on the night.

I suggest that you re-read them (slowly), as you've obviously had difficulty comprehending them. Now stop talking out of your behind & admit that not having a contract in place is incredibly foolhardy. Like the other 2 former members of this forum that I alluded to you seem to think that everyone else is wrong & only you are right. Doesn't the amount of people disagreeing with you tell you something?

[ukpartydj]

If I may put my two pence in and say -

The more effort you make the more trusting a customer will be of you and your service.
One of the common questions I get asked on the initial phonecall is "will the DJ turn up?" ... you can either say "yes I would never do that" or
"yes, you will receive a contract which states you will have a DJ for your occasion at the times discussed and we will make our best efforts to provide you with a similar service should this become impossible."

Which makes you feel more secure?

Also I do occasionally work without contract for last min or covering jobs similar to what has been mentioned and I always have that feeling of "what if they don't pay / turn up / expect more than originally agreed". I don't back down to clients who are unreasonable however I never like being in that sort of position and I'm sure the client wouldn't either - contract makes everything very clear.

[DazzyD]

...

contract makes everything very clear.

A well-worded contract certainly does. It's when people try make a contract sound better than it is with incorrectly worded jargon which they know nothing about that, ultimately, makes the document ambiguous and totally worthless. And I've seen a few of those in my time!!

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

But your own T&C's offer your customers next to nothing. They do however try to exonerate you from virtually any responsibility from theft to physical harm to guests. They allow you to not turn up by just offering a refund as settlement. They let you change equipment and DJ's from that promised. In fact, it's as though you are have taken such high ground that you feel entitled to do, say or act in whatever way you want without any consequence or challenge. In reality, you're offering no better terms or security to a customer than those offered by a DJ who takes cash on the night.

Your lack of contract offers them even less.

What's stopping you not turning up and giving them back absolutely nothing?

What's stopping you changing equipment and DJs?


Now I'm sure your word is as good as anyone elses on here but tangibly and legally speaking, that's all you're giving them. Neither you or your client has any sort of legal protection. You are providing your client with nothing except your word that you'll be there and do what you say you're going to do. If there was ever any issue, they'd have no real recourse if you wanted to dig your heels in about it.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I've just gone to secure mode on NAD and was having a look around the site properly and in my settings discovered that I have actually taken 5 bookings in three years worth almost 3K, so not too bad!