Your policy for setting up on uneven/dangerous surfaces

[Ecstatic Events]

Hi All,

Trust you all had a good weekend.

I have a question, have any of you ever refused to set up and start a gig because of uneven flooring/H&S issues.

I did a subcontracted Marquee Wedding on Saturday and I think it may be my last (subcontracted gig) I spent most of the night "clinging on" to my ultimax for fear of it going over, as for the RCFs. Lets just say it was comparable to playing a Wedding on a channel ferry crossing (mid-winter)

I did a quick risk assesment when I arrived and wasn't happy then (and raised my concerns that fell on deaf ears) christ knows why I even bothered to setup - It was just plain dangerous at times. Even though I insisted I set up on the dancefloor because the area that had been reserved for the disco looked like a molehill.

Here's a little video to demonstrate, the dancefloor was nowhere near full at this point either!!!

Wobbly Speaker - YouTube

I was ready to pull the plug, what would you do? I was smiling through gritted teeth for 90% of the night for fear of someone getting seriously hurt (and my PLI had lapsed - JOKE!)

Am I just being a wingy old DJ, or do you guys feel the same about this matter?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I would have put the speakers either on the floor or on the lowest setting on the tripod and lighting on the floor.

Was there room to do that?

[Ecstatic Events]

I hear what you are saying, there was room to ground all the equipment. But the bride and groom had a surprise bollywood dance act that they wanted "lit up, with lots of smoke"

In addition, it would look really poor. dont you think?

[Shaun]

In addition, it would look really poor. dont you think?

Safety over aesthetics every time.

[Corabar Steve]

I agree with Shaun, Better to look poor than to flatten somebody with a speaker or your entire lighting rig.

[Ecstatic Events]

Fair enough - In hindsight, I think I should of grounded all the gear on this occasion.

You live and learn.

So the general consensus is - You would still set-up under these conditions but ground as much kit a possible?

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Just to make a few points to this thread before the comments start coming in.

This gig was sub-contracted to Mike by me. I met the Bride & Groom at the venue on wednesday evening. It was the only date that they could do and it was pitch black outside. There was no marquee set up at the time so I couldn't voice any concerns regarding setting up, safety etc as there was nothing to look at!

There was a band playing too on the night and in the meeting, myself and the customer went through the timing's etc and also when and where the band and Disco were to be set up. Mike contacted me with his concerns and also told me that the band (as usual) had taken up far too much room and he had to make a decision as to where to set up for the safety of the guests and his equipment.

From what I can gather, despite spending over an hour with the customer and going through every detail thoroughly including the songs, timing's etc etc...It seemed to all go out of the window and was a bit of a shambles. The owner of the venue was not around when I went to see the customer and from what Mike tells me, she wasn't very helpful or approachable either.

So there's some background for you.

As for not doing any sub contracted gigs again Mike - I hope that's not the case. Yes, it's not that great when you are working on behalf of someone else and you can't make decisions etc but it doesn't happen that often. This scenario in particular doesn't come around that often. You did the best you could and fair play to you.

We'll have a proper chat etc offline at some point but as far as your thoughts on safety are concerned - I totally agree with you. If you air them and they fall on deaf ears, what else can you do? The example you've posted proves that it was very dodgy.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Oops....the comments are already coming in.

[Corabar Steve]

So the general consensus is - You would still set-up under these conditions but ground as much kit a possible?
I think it's very much a case by case thing. & would depend on each individual instance. You can't make a general statement to cover all eventualities

[Kernow]

Safety over aesthetics every time.


I agree with Shaun, Better to look poor than to flatten somebody with a speaker or your entire lighting rig.

+1 :agree:

[katman]

Love the sound accompanying the video.....

"This'll be the day that I die" ....crushed by a falling speaker !!!

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Can't really add too much to what the chaps have said however I wouldn't go so far as to say you won't do subcontracted work anymore. These things happen to the best of us.

[Ecstatic Events]

Just to make a few points to this thread before the comments start coming in.

This gig was sub-contracted to Mike by me. I met the Bride & Groom at the venue on wednesday evening. It was the only date that they could do and it was pitch black outside. There was no marquee set up at the time so I couldn't voice any concerns regarding setting up, safety etc as there was nothing to look at!

There was a band playing too on the night and in the meeting, myself and the customer went through the timing's etc and also when and where the band and Disco were to be set up. Mike contacted me with his concerns and also told me that the band (as usual) had taken up far too much room and he had to make a decision as to where to set up for the safety of the guests and his equipment.

From what I can gather, despite spending over an hour with the customer and going through every detail thoroughly including the songs, timing's etc etc...It seemed to all go out of the window and was a bit of a shambles. The owner of the venue was not around when I went to see the customer and from what Mike tells me, she wasn't very helpful or approachable either.

So there's some background for you.

As for not doing any sub contracted gigs again Mike - I hope that's not the case. Yes, it's not that great when you are working on behalf of someone else and you can't make decisions etc but it doesn't happen that often. This scenario in particular doesn't come around that often. You did the best you could and fair play to you.

We'll have a proper chat etc offline at some point but as far as your thoughts on safety are concerned - I totally agree with you. If you air them and they fall on deaf ears, what else can you do? The example you've posted proves that it was very dodgy.

Thanks for the background info Gary - Im not sure it was needed mind you.

The OP was asking other DJs opinions on how/if they would setup in precarious environments. I'm not sure what you are referring to with "before the comments start coming in?"

Re: subcontracting - I am deadly serious. The gigs I do for my own business are always better than subcontracted gigs. I prefer to have the pre-event input, especially with Weddings (It's nothing personal) and I want to be working for and representing my own business.



Love the sound accompanying the video.....

"This'll be the day that I die" ....crushed by a falling speaker !!!

Of all the moments I could of chose to shoot the video! Brilliant.


Can't really add too much to what the chaps have said however I wouldn't go so far as to say you won't do subcontracted work anymore. These things happen to the best of us.

I have done alot of subcontracted work and it's too impersonable for what I'm trying to achieve. This gig alone is not the reason (if any reason at all) for me deciding to slow down the subcontracting work. I wont cut my nose off to spite my face/bite the hand that feeds me - blah-de-blah :D

[DazzyD]

Safety over aesthetics every time.

Definitely agree!

As far as setting up goes, safety is everything. It's written in to our T&Cs that we reserve the right to refuse to perform in an unsafe environment (although I've never had to invoke this clause before, thankfully!).

As for the marquee in the video, yes it looks pretty bad but I tend to find that's the case with mobile dancefloors that I've worked on. I would have certainly considered lowering the speakers or even grounding them but, I too, hate putting things on floors instead of stands unless there really is no alternative.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Mike - I mentioned "before the comments start coming in.." because I wanted to make it clear from the outset that it was me that sub-contracted the gig to you and wasn't sure if some of the replies would mention lack of information etc etc...Yes, slightly off topic etc so apologies.

Totally agree about sub-contracted gigs being impersonal but then again, as you know...I personally try to give as much information as I can. Stopping sub-contracting won't do you any favours if things are on the quiet side.

Anyway, apologies for going back off topic - I'll mail you my thoughts mate.

[musicologydisco]

I expected to see something really quite dangerous but a bit of speaker wobble doesn't look much of a problem

[Shakermaker Promotions]

If it was just "a bit of speaker wobble", I don't think Mike would have been concerned. It was obviously worst than that.

[CRAZY K]

Thanks for the background info Gary - Im not sure it was needed mind you.

The OP was asking other DJs opinions on how/if they would setup in precarious environments. I'm not sure what you are referring to with "before the comments start coming in?"

Re: subcontracting - I am deadly serious. The gigs I do for my own business are always better than subcontracted gigs. I prefer to have the pre-event input, especially with Weddings (It's nothing personal) and I want to be working for and representing my own business.




Of all the moments I could of chose to shoot the video! Brilliant.



I have done alot of subcontracted work and it's too impersonable for what I'm trying to achieve. This gig alone is not the reason (if any reason at all) for me deciding to slow down the subcontracting work. I wont cut my nose off to spite my face/bite the hand that feeds me - blah-de-blah :D


I would have thought a playlist and a quick phone call /email would be enough to ge the drift of the gig even if subcontracted.

Not that its any of my business how you get the gig or who from.

Obviously you have issues with this so its your decision naturally.

The problem will be you cant check out Marquees until they are set up and quite often only a day before, so difficult to monitor.:daft: even with a direct client.

Fixed venues are a lot easier.

Personally have played plenty of difficult venues from Freezing Tents in the middle of winter to Canal barges to postage stamp sized front gardens, I guess sometimes you have to try and roll with it--I think you might get similar problems even direct with clients if the Band pinch your space--

Now involved with my sons Rodeo Bull business which is a real eye opener as regards difficult locations--and H and S regs.

I think dropping a hint that its an Elf and Safety risk because-------------could persuade them that if the Band dont move their backsides then you cant work because of H and S--etc.

Blame the Band and Health and Safety--its not your fault etc---whilst smiling. I would.

You might be surprised at what you can achieve--especially if like me you SOUND like you know what your talking about--say you have just been on a training course--just make it up if necessary.;)

Better that than an accident---obviously last resort is everything on the floor--not good.

Do you not have a condition in your Contract that says if in YOUR opinion its dangerous you will not operate?

Dont know if this helps, but thats my personal view.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I expected to see something really quite dangerous but a bit of speaker wobble doesn't look much of a problem

If a speaker fell on a child's head it could be a real problem.

[DazzyD]

If a speaker fell on a child's head it could be a real problem.

Or anyone's head for that matter! :eek:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Or anyone's head for that matter! :eek:

Yes, but a speaker would be unlikely to fall upwards to an adult head....

[Ecstatic Events]

I need to add that there is nothing more ANYONE could of done about this situation. Especially Gary.

If anyone is to blame, I would be pointing the finger at the marquee company. The flooring was inadequate. Well there wasn't any, the ground was covered with what can only be described as a hessian type material. I've worked in a fair few marquees where they provide staging and suitable set up platforms.

Regarding the comment about a little wobble??? You should of seen the sway in the Ultimax that had 6 halogen fixtures overhead. Slightly different scenario if that ever came down. In hindsight I should of grounded the gear, thanks to the forum I know what steps to take if a similar situation occurs.

[Excalibur]

Safety over aesthetics every time.


I agree with Shaun, Better to look poor than to flatten somebody with a speaker or your entire lighting rig.

I'm with these two all the way.



If anyone is to blame, I would be pointing the finger at the marquee company. The flooring was inadequate. Well there wasn't any, the ground was covered with what can only be described as a hessian type material. .

I hate that stuff, it's flaming awful. :mad: It moves.

Re the swaying Ultimax, we have on more than one occasion discussed wider bases. I wonder if it might be worth fabricating a couple of lumps of box section which can be bolted on when extra stability is needed?

And at the risk of boring everyone rigid with my oft repeated line:
sticking three or four 25Kg amps on the bottom shelf doesn't half stabilise an Ultimax.

[DazzyD]

Yes, but a speaker would be unlikely to fall upwards to an adult head....

I always try to get my speakers up high so, from my set up, they could well fall on an adults head. Perhaps, then, that's a bit too high? I've never really given this any thought before - I just like the symmetry of keeping them in line with the lighting bar.

[Digital Jack]

I'll have to insist on bags of sand , paving slabs and a big wooden mallet to any cheesy marquee gigs in future.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

If anyone is to blame, I would be pointing the finger at the marquee company. The flooring was inadequate. Well there wasn't any, the ground was covered with what can only be described as a hessian type material. I've worked in a fair few marquees where they provide staging and suitable set up platforms.



But did the client pay for that? I suspect that it was extra to have flooring and the client didn't want to pay.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I always try to get my speakers up high so, from my set up, they could well fall on an adults head.

But we weren't talking about your set up, were we? ;)

[ian8limelight]

Safety over aesthetics every time.

Fully agree with Shaun, safety of your clients and yourself is imperative.

I remember stopping a disco one evening because the dance floor, provided by the Hotel, was literally breaking up in sections and was becoming a potential unsafe area. Not my own piece of equipment but was part of an ongoing risk assessment which I always unconsciously carry out during any function. That's why I am always wary of 'guests on a dance floor with drinks (bottles, glasses, etc)'.

[CRAZY K]

That's why I am always wary of 'guests on a dance floor with drinks (bottles, glasses, etc)'.

Unfortunately younger people 30 and under dont seem to be able to dance without a glass or drink in hand.

Fortunately in my business Barn Dance instructions are given to " clap your hands" so that tends to get rid of the glasses--unless there is a Line Dance in which case as people dance on their own and the problem continues with glasses getting dropped--:eek:

[spin mobile disco]

I had one in almost identicle curcumstances and to make matters worse we had had very heavy rain so floor standing of equipment was not practical. And then I asked the venue about the mains supply and would my current draw effect their rcd's. Their reply was what rcd's. hmmmmmm Wet ground filled with guests heavy rain and all the mains power was not protected by rcd's.
Due to the nature of this venues lack of attention to basic safety I have now blacklisted them.
The floor I was suppost to setup on was more like one of thos climbing walls they have in parks. I used cases from my gear to provide bases to mount what I could off truss. Speaker stands open all the way and not extended were only way and I still nearly had one go over from a drunken punter.

Needless to say I had my own rcds in my bag and connected myself to those.