Double booked and bored

[Andy Goodtimes]

Bit of a mess tonight, I arrived at my job to find it was cancelled back in March but the hotel never told me. I was at the same hotel 2 weeks ago and when I said to the manager “see you on the 16th” she didn’t say anything but in all fairness she never knew as she only gets the function sheets a week prior and then it doesn’t always say where the DJ has been sourced from.

It was a 21st and the mother of the girl who was 21 was rude to me when I arrived and later she was almost begging me to stay but by that time I had had enough of her and the other middle aged ladies who were with her. It all started off with the Mother having a go at me as if it was my fault, I had a contract and she wouldn’t have it that I never knew it was cancelled, apparently the hotel knew back in March as the girls mate’s boyfriend was a DJ and was doing it cheap as a present. I said not to worry as it obviously wasn’t her fault and I didn’t want to cause her any stress or upset and I would take it up with the hotel office staff on Monday, she still kept on at me and I said “look why would I travel 38 miles to a job I knew was cancelled”?

The manageress said I might as well leave my trailer in the staff car park which is all covered by cameras and secure and fenced save towing it home and back again tomorrow for the Wedding I have there. She offered to make me a coffee while I was un-hooking it so I did that and then went back into the little service area between the kitchen and the function room for a coffee and a chat to the staff. Anyway next thing the DJ arrived and it was a bit of a contrast, I have a 2 week old Insignia SRI Sports tourer with a 6 month old purpose built very smart looking trailer, and he had a ‘T’ reg Escort estate which had obviously been worked hard. As this chap knew some of the younger ones he stood by the fire doors smoking with them and swearing his head off loudly even though he was late, the older Mother and her circle of older mates were noticeably getting annoyed by this. After about 15 minutes he decided it was time to set-up, he argued with the hotel staff about the siting of the cake table and a table for him and they were struggling to keep cool with him. He had a hotel table with one of their white cloths on it which he wasn’t going to have but they suggested the cloth to him, and he put his laptop on that. The speakers were weird looking things…Behringer Europort EPA or something like that…they had funny bulges at the top where the handles were…I’ve never seen them before and he put them on some old tarnished stands with missing feet and a biro to hold one of them up. He had 2 LED lights like Impossableds but smaller dimmer ones and basically that was it and it sounded awful and the lights were not effective at all and he never even wired them master/slave…mind you dunno if they could be wired like that, I’m not just saying it, honestly it was bad. One of the girls took him another white cloth and asked him to cover his pile of old cardboard boxes that he had stacked in a corner behind him and he started moaning and swearing about her being fussy.

I spent about 45 minutes chatting to the staff and I must admit we were quietly taking the mick. As I was leaving the Father appeared from out of nowhere, dunno where he was earlier…prob keeping out of the Mother’s way, he was a nice chap and he asked me how much for me to stay. I declined totally and said it would cause too much bother to tell the other to strip down and take too long for me to set-up as the room was getting pretty full. The father said that this chap obviously wasn’t a professional DJ and it couldn’t hardly be heard and his daughter and her friends were party animals and keen dancers and later on he wouldn’t cope as they were already asking him to turn it up and he couldn’t as it was distorted and hissing. I felt a bit awkward but stuck to my guns and came home.

Shame really as I like the up to date stuff played loud and I look forward to the odd 18th and 21st.

I was in at about 9.30pm started to watch “Catch Me If You Can” which I recorded the other night and it was obviously very good as I went to sleep half way through, wide awake now and bored.

[Charlie Brown]

Maybe you'll take payment a month in advance next time?

I understand this wasn't a private booking but the same rule still applies IMO.

[Creature]

Maybe you'll take payment a month in advance next time?

how do you know he hadn't taken a booking fee !!

but gotta admit probally the senario we dread happening the most

[Andy Goodtimes]

Not that easy with hotels.

They take payment in advance but try and get them to pay you in advance. Thing is there are lots of DJs and agencies waiting to get in there and the hotels know it and take advantage, they won't pay up front, they are very reluctant to pay cancellation fees and also for party nights and tribute nights and at times like Christmas they will book the dates they think they want and then cancel them later if they don't sell. I get the same old thing...they'll make it up to me, or they give me x amount of bookings throughout the year. Other thing is that an agency will charge £350 and pay the DJ £200 if they're lucky but I get the whole fee as I do it direct.

I know what will happen, I will phone the office on Monday and they will either apoligise and say they have just had a couple of others in and give me them to make up for it or if not they will reluctantly pay me £100 for fuel and inconvenience. If I make a fuss they will bring up on the PC how many jobs I have had off them in the past year and start quoting the value of them...I already know those figures and don't want to risk loosing their business.

I live in the real world, its all very well to start keeping deposits and charging full fees for canceled private work but when you rely on the business as a source of income you have to give and take.

Another example; I have a young farmers do on 7 January, I do about 15-20 for this particular group and spin offs from them each year, they are all worth over £500 and some of them go longer than 1am and therefore worth more. Wehn they booked this latest one they asked about cancelation fees as they are way up in the hills on the way to Buxton and that road is always the first to go in the bad snow etc. I said I would keep the £50 deposit but knock it off when they re-booked and would not charge a cancelation fee. I would much rather keep their work rather than fall out over £500.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Maybe you'll take payment a month in advance next time?

I understand this wasn't a private booking but the same rule still applies IMO.

In your opinion CB?

You are a little naive sometimes.

Hotel chains and even privately owned Hotels don't pay in advance. 30 days is generally the rule.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Exactly!
Not sure what planet you are on sometimes Charlie!?
I totally agree with the OP regarding payments with hotels. Sometimes you have to be a bit leanient (sp?). When a venue is giving you lots of work throughout the year, sometimes cancellation charges go out of the window. It's not always the case. If it was, I wouldn't deal with hotels.

One in particular, which I don't do anymore cancelled 9 christmas gigs on me one year. They got very narked when they realised that they had to pay cancellation fees for the inconvenience. 4 of them had a 50% charge and 3 had 100% charge. I even had the General Manager on the phone to me asking if I could give them a break. Bearing in mind that this hotel was part of a massive chain and also that the GM never made himself accessible. He was always tucked away in his office. I think in 4 years, I met him once and spoke to him once (when he wanted me to waive the cancellation charges).

It's true that some venues (not all of them) like to be seen to be pulling all the strings and don't take you seriously. They see it as giving you 20 gigs a year and potential good earnings. You never let them down and do a good job yet when they cancel on you, they expect you to just take it.

As I said, not all of them are like it thankfully. I have a couple of residencies and one of them is a great little number with a brilliant Manager who is a good friend now.

Andy - I know exactly where you are coming from. Some others may disagree but I'm with you mate.

[Ecstatic Events]

Bit of a mess tonight, I arrived at my job to find it was cancelled back in March but the hotel never told me. I was at the same hotel 2 weeks ago and when I said to the manager “see you on the 16th” she didn’t say anything but in all fairness she never knew as she only gets the function sheets a week prior and then it doesn’t always say where the DJ has been sourced from.

It was a 21st and the mother of the girl who was 21 was rude to me when I arrived and later she was almost begging me to stay but by that time I had had enough of her and the other middle aged ladies who were with her. It all started off with the Mother having a go at me as if it was my fault, I had a contract and she wouldn’t have it that I never knew it was cancelled, apparently the hotel knew back in March as the girls mate’s boyfriend was a DJ and was doing it cheap as a present. I said not to worry as it obviously wasn’t her fault and I didn’t want to cause her any stress or upset and I would take it up with the hotel office staff on Monday, she still kept on at me and I said “look why would I travel 38 miles to a job I knew was cancelled”?

The manageress said I might as well leave my trailer in the staff car park which is all covered by cameras and secure and fenced save towing it home and back again tomorrow for the Wedding I have there. She offered to make me a coffee while I was un-hooking it so I did that and then went back into the little service area between the kitchen and the function room for a coffee and a chat to the staff. Anyway next thing the DJ arrived and it was a bit of a contrast, I have a 2 week old Insignia SRI Sports tourer with a 6 month old purpose built very smart looking trailer, and he had a ‘T’ reg Escort estate which had obviously been worked hard. As this chap knew some of the younger ones he stood by the fire doors smoking with them and swearing his head off loudly even though he was late, the older Mother and her circle of older mates were noticeably getting annoyed by this. After about 15 minutes he decided it was time to set-up, he argued with the hotel staff about the siting of the cake table and a table for him and they were struggling to keep cool with him. He had a hotel table with one of their white cloths on it which he wasn’t going to have but they suggested the cloth to him, and he put his laptop on that. The speakers were weird looking things…Behringer Europort EPA or something like that…they had funny bulges at the top where the handles were…I’ve never seen them before and he put them on some old tarnished stands with missing feet and a biro to hold one of them up. He had 2 LED lights like Impossableds but smaller dimmer ones and basically that was it and it sounded awful and the lights were not effective at all and he never even wired them master/slave…mind you dunno if they could be wired like that, I’m not just saying it, honestly it was bad. One of the girls took him another white cloth and asked him to cover his pile of old cardboard boxes that he had stacked in a corner behind him and he started moaning and swearing about her being fussy.

I spent about 45 minutes chatting to the staff and I must admit we were quietly taking the mick. As I was leaving the Father appeared from out of nowhere, dunno where he was earlier…prob keeping out of the Mother’s way, he was a nice chap and he asked me how much for me to stay. I declined totally and said it would cause too much bother to tell the other to strip down and take too long for me to set-up as the room was getting pretty full. The father said that this chap obviously wasn’t a professional DJ and it couldn’t hardly be heard and his daughter and her friends were party animals and keen dancers and later on he wouldn’t cope as they were already asking him to turn it up and he couldn’t as it was distorted and hissing. I felt a bit awkward but stuck to my guns and came home.

Shame really as I like the up to date stuff played loud and I look forward to the odd 18th and 21st.

I was in at about 9.30pm started to watch “Catch Me If You Can” which I recorded the other night and it was obviously very good as I went to sleep half way through, wide awake now and bored.

Oh dear - Not good. I had this reply from a quotation just this week.

Hi Mike,

I must apologise for not getting back to you sooner, I will not be able to proceed with the disco booking for 01/10/11, the other family in this joint event have managed to secure a friend of friend for free, (at the last minute), so sorry we couldn't compete with your quote.

I must thank you for all your help and assistance with my enquiry and maybe sometime in the future we can book you again.

Do you think it may go the same way? When will people realise??

As for Charlies comments about payments???????? You need to join us in the real world buddy :D :D :D

[Charlie Brown]

Well I get paid in advance when I work for my regular hotel.

I wonder whether Paul does at shottle hall?

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Your regular hotel must be one in a million then Charlie because it's a very rare occurence (in my experience).

[Ecstatic Events]

Your regular hotel must be one in a million then Charlie because it's a very rare occurence (in my experience).

He has a point - I've just secured a Christmas Contract with the Hilton (well known for being late payers) for 16 bookings @ £450 each, they paid me in full last week :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

:D :D :D :D :D

[Spirits High]

Well I get paid in advance when I work for my regular hotel.

I wonder whether Paul does at shottle hall?

Sorry to take this off topic but,

I take that's me you're on about?

To answer your question......No!

All my Shottle Hall bookings come direct from the client not the venue. They recommend me but I still have to secure the booking. They don't do all in packages.

[hammy]

He has a point - I've just secured a Christmas Contract with the Hilton (well known for being late payers) for 16 bookings @ £450 each, they paid me in full last week :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

:D :D :D :D :D

Have a good xmas Mike :beer1:

[Charlie Brown]

All my Shottle Hall bookings come direct from the client not the venue. They recommend me but I still have to secure the booking. They don't do all in packages.

Oh right, that's the same as me.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Oh right, that's the same as me.

So you don't invoice the venue then?

[Twinspin]

When i had a hotel residency i was lucky if i got paid in 30 days. Sometimes it took them nearly 3 months to pay up and still i had to keep chasing them for payment otherwise it would have been longer than that.

[Ecstatic Events]

Have a good xmas Mike :beer1:

I will now :beer1: :beer1: :beer1:

[Excalibur]

When i had a hotel residency i was lucky if i got paid in 30 days. Sometimes it took them nearly 3 months to pay up and still i had to keep chasing them for payment otherwise it would have been longer than that.

Now that's more like par for the course. :(

[Andy Goodtimes]

Well done Mike for that Hilton deal, I work for a Hilton and also a Double Tree and although I am meant to be on a 14 dayh its more like a 21 day but still not too bad I guess. I have one hotel which is a Hand Picked which pass my brochure to clients and suggest they book me, they also point out that the DJ must have £10m PLI, PAT and Pro Dub if required and that usually secures the work for me, I deal with those clients as if they are ordinary private clients...payment of deposit and then in full 14 days prior. I do other bits for other chains and agencies and the norm is about a month. I have one other which is a private owned...Borough Arms and for those I invoice them on the night and in return get a cheque on the night.

This year for Hand Picked Christmas parties I will get 75% of anything cancelled after November 15th, I'm not 100% happy with that but feel it was as good as I was going to get.

[yourdj]

I would change hotels - bad admin is never a good thing for any entertainer.


Hotel chains and even privately owned Hotels don't pay in advance. 30 days is generally the rule.

Yep but a written contract would be a good idea in this instance. That way you get your money back.
I really am getting fed up with dealing directly with hotels tbh. Lots of them do not realise the value of quality entertainment.

BUT.... i do think that is changing quite quickly recently.

They are a pain in the :Censored: however

I have wasted allot of time with an xmas booking this year (mon-sat) for the manager to then
say at the meeting (as a surprise to the said manager) that its only (Thurs-Sat). Unprofessional, unorganized and not for me thank you!!


He has a point - I've just secured a Christmas Contract with the Hilton (well known for being late payers) for 16 bookings @ £450 each, they paid me in full last week :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Exception to the rule, but good on you.



Private client or private run premises anyday. ;)

[Ecstatic Events]

Well done Mike for that Hilton deal, I work for a Hilton and also a Double Tree and although I am meant to be on a 14 dayh its more like a 21 day but still not too bad I guess. I have one hotel which is a Hand Picked which pass my brochure to clients and suggest they book me, they also point out that the DJ must have £10m PLI, PAT and Pro Dub if required and that usually secures the work for me, I deal with those clients as if they are ordinary private clients...payment of deposit and then in full 14 days prior. I do other bits for other chains and agencies and the norm is about a month. I have one other which is a private owned...Borough Arms and for those I invoice them on the night and in return get a cheque on the night.

This year for Hand Picked Christmas parties I will get 75% of anything cancelled after November 15th, I'm not 100% happy with that but feel it was as good as I was going to get.

Aaaaaah - Apologies, I need to set the record straight.

I thought most of you would see through the sarcasm. Hilton are known for being late payers (beyond terms) I think it would be almost impossible to secure 16 bookings @ £450each with the chain and get paid upfront!!!! I know the guy who has the contract for the Local Hilton (amongst others) and he's putting in 2 Discos per Christmas Party night. I'd imagine acheiving £450 per rig would be nothing but a dream. I suspect it's nearer half that.

I was taking the :Censored: Pulling your :Censored: etc etc

DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ ON HERE. Especially when a certain member is involved :D :D :D :D

[Andy Goodtimes]

Well...TBH I did think it was a bit too good to be true but didn't like to be rude and question it and if you were getting that much I wasn't going to admit that I only get £280 for Double Trees which is a Hilton brand. I have never done Christmas for Hilton but do suspect that if they were to give a DJ a run of work and maybe they could leave kit set-up for the next night and so on I bet they would be trying to get the price down. I get £320 for my Hand Picked work regardless of if its an evening Wedding reception, corp or party night and I am happy with that as far as price goes, also the staff are nice and the venue nice and a very easy drop, I shall get paid on 15 December for anything up to that date and then again on 15 Jan for the rest.

Another thing that is interesting is that several of the larger hotels have more than one room working on the same night and I often see agency DJs, its unfair to say they are all bad because some of them are actually very good but most of them have cheap kit that's not really suitable for the 5 star venues and they are often a bit on the scruffy side and not that good entertainers. I know from talking to them that they typically get £150-£180 but I would chance a guess that the agency is prob charging about the same as me. Thing is the ops staff moan like mad about most of them but still they turn up one week after another, when I talk to the staff about this they say its a higher decission and no point them talking to the sales and revenue team as they like to go for the agencies. They like to be able to try me or if not they make one call and get the fax back confirming the booking in a few minutes and its job done, also they can book all kinds of other entertainers from clowns to lounge pianists and a whole hoast of tributes and bands in-between. They will also know that the agent is going to value the work very highly as a busy hotel can put thousands of pounds of work their way each week, don't forget a disco might only be £300 but a decent band can be several times more. All this means that when the DJ gets cancelled and asks the agent for some fee the agent will say they can't risk upsetting the venue and the favourite phrase comes out..."trust me I will make it up to you"...lost count how many times I have heard that over the years.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Actually, Hilton have strict 30 days net terms.

I supply two of them and don't imagine too hard Mike. :sj:

[Ecstatic Events]

Actually, Hilton have strict 30 days net terms.

I supply two of them and don't imagine too hard Mike. :sj:

That surprises me Darren, I covered 2 or 3 gigs in Basingstoke last year (over the christmas period) and remember having a conversation about the company having to chase Hilton for payment etc... I think he said he waited for nearly six weeks once. Always guaranteed mind you.

Perhaps he was trying to put me off going in for the contract myself :D :devil:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

That surprises me Darren, I covered 2 or 3 gigs in Basingstoke last year (over the christmas period) and remember having a conversation about the company having to chase Hilton for payment etc... I think he said he waited for nearly six weeks once. Always guaranteed mind you.

Perhaps he was trying to put me off going in for the contract myself :D :devil:

Quite possibly.

The only reason I say that is because payments come from head office and they are always 30 days for me.

Perhaps it varies from place to place.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I did the same thing about 4 years ago. I did 4 Christmas Parties as their resident wasn't able to do them. I was used to the whole 30 days thing as I was working elsewhere too as a resident. I made sure that I put the invoice in as soon as I did the first party so it wasn't delayed too much.

One of my regular venues has an average turnaround time of 14 days regarding payments.

[Charlie Brown]

What do they achieve by paying you later?

Is it down to the accounts department being overwhelmed?

[WWDJ]

What do they achieve by paying you later?

Is it down to the accounts department being overwhelmed?

Cash-flow .....

[Danno13]

What do they achieve by paying you later?


When current accounts actually paid any kind of meaningful interest, then on a large scale they could benefit from keeping hold of the money between then client paying (30 days prior to the event) and paying suppliers (60 days later)

In the current climate there really is no point apart from them getting themseleves a nice free overdraft facility! The problem is that alot of hotels etc. already have these procedures in place.

Unfotunatley, when someone decides to extend their credit period, the only loser is the small business at the end of the chain!

[Excalibur]

What do they achieve by paying you later?

Blimey Charlie, at times you're priceless. :D The longer the money stays in their account, the more interest they gain/less bank charges they pay.

As a general rule, the bigger they are, the slower they pay.

[spin mobile disco]

Last night I had the reverse as the client had booked me for their wedding but the venue had just changed managers so they booked their own resident for the evening.
I turned up about an hour early and checked in with the staff who didnt say anything. Then about an hour later they came in and asked to check my paperwork which i provided. Then 2 other Dj's came in.
Hmmmm.... very nice guys actually and they understood the situation as I had paperwork first dance and requests and had already been paid it was pretty obvious who had the gig so we sat down for a drink together while we waited for the room to be cleared ready for setup.

Apparently last manager had left in a hurry and had left lots of problems with the venue so they expected the worse and rather than spoil a wedding took a chance and hired a DJ themselves. So no one to blame and at least everyone was amicable.

[Andy Goodtimes]

Not all Hilton's do work the same Daren, it varies from hotel to hotel and also depending on if its a private party or if its a hotel do such as a tribute or party night. Then you have the Double Tree brand which are different again.

The 17th December last year was a particularly bad day for snow in the N/W and I was doing a private Christmas party for a long established corp client of mine in the Manchester airport Hilton and the hotel's own DJ was not able to turn up for the publlic party night in the other room due to him being stuck in snow. The manager was frantic and bugging me for phone numbers of DJs but no one could get there, in the end I put my second show in the other room and my roadie who isn't really a DJ but can cope if he has to did it, I insisted on payment there and then and I got it before any extra kit came out of my van.

The reasons for the DJs having to wait for payments prob are financial but sometimes I can't help thinking its a control thing. What else do you do though?...you either work for an agency and let them take a cut of what could be yours, trol about the back street pubs and com centres for little money or work like mad on advertising, marketting and converting clients to secure the better paid work. I guess I'm just lazy and like it all to come to me and once you are in the routine its not too bad waiting for payments.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Not all Hilton's do work the same Daren, it varies from hotel to hotel and also depending on if its a private party or if its a hotel do such as a tribute or party night.

Sorry Andy, but that is complete rubbish! How can payment be dependant on what kind of function it is?

[Andy Goodtimes]

Its not rubbish Daren; I believe its to do with the accounting, private functions are treated differently to public ones and monies are held by different departments in different accounts. Many times I have been paid for public nights either on the night or very soon afterwards and private ones take much longer and don't come direct from the specific hotel. I am booked by the revenue office for public nights and by the sales office for private ones. I don't understand fully the exact technicalities of how the various departments and accounts work so I won't go further as I'll prob make a hash of it.