A friend's perception of DJ's - quite shocked

[mattydinx]

Just had a conversation with a 'friend' enquiring how much I'd charge for a party. They didn't have specifics (no venue, no times - helpful...NAAT!) but as a favour I quoted her a ball-park figure with a bit knocked off.

The conversation followed like this....

Me: if your party's 7:30 till 12 I'd do it for £140
Friend: pffffff
Me: and that's cheap, others charge upwards of £200
Friend: nah i can get a lot cheaper
Me: not all about cost though
Friend: it is
Me: chances are the cheaper ones aren't insured, use cheap/poor equipment which isn't electrical safety checked and download poor quality MP3s from the internet. its like everything - you get what you pay for.
you pay £60 for some geezer with a laptop and a hi-fi and a couple of :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored:ty lights - its hardly gonna create the right party atmosphere is it lol
Friend:im not botherd about insurance ha ha. One of the lads who has done 5 partys i have been to is really good n cheap so just gonna get him
Me: 5 parties? - mmm, compared to my 11 years and 100's of parties?....suit yourself lol
Me: so how much is he then? - and what's his company called?
Friend: dunno what his company is called but if you get venue from a list he has he is 50 quid - good eh
Me: lol not really - I wouldnt even load the car up for that
Friend: course it is - its mint for customers

Needless to say if that's her attitude she's no potential client of mine.
As it happens I'm booked most weekends leading up to Christmas and she's thinking about having her function next month.

I'm just surprised that:
A) 60 quid sid is lowering his prices
B) her view on a mobile DJ is all about price
C) her perception that things like equipment, insurance and experience don't mean squat!

I've been invited to said function (when she decides when and where she's going to have it!) so if I'm not working I'll report back.

I know it shouldn't bother me - It's been said many a time before, I'm not aiming for that end of the market.
Just trying to do a favour for a friend and being shot down for being 'too expensive' - It's annoyed me slightly.

[katman]

her perception that things like equipment, insurance and experience don't mean squat!

She probably has the same perception of paying for music and films. It would be interesting to knwo how much of her own personal music/movie collection has been obtained legally.

The current generation seem to think that they are entitled to everything for free and see nothing wrong with it :(

[Corabar Entertainment]

I think it does hit home more when it's a friend or family member that you just can't get through to though.

My mum sings Corabar's praises if anyone mentions anything about a party, and she's seen us in action several times, but even she can't quite get past the 'price is everything' scenario!

We recently had a conversation with a close friend who is getting married in the not-too-distant future (no date yet). Steve said something about it to him and his reaction was something along the lines of "Good God - I'm not having a DJ. You're the only one I have even the slightest bit of respect for, but I still don't want you to do my wedding!" :eek:

[Eski75]

There will always be people out there with micro budgets in any line of work, if the majority of people here on the boards are out most weekends I don't see what there is to get upset about.

You get what you pay for, but equally some people out there (punters that is) are doing what they can with not a lot of money.

Clearly I don't know the lady in the story, she may be a millionaire for all I know, but there are lot of people that aren't and if £50 is all they can afford then that's what they can afford and they'll have £50 worth of DJ. It's the same in any trade. Don't get bent out of shape about what you can't control.

[yourdj]

Not sure why this is important. Every industry has tight people who are not too bothered about what they get.
As for people who do not have the budget then thats understandable as money does not grow on trees.

Take myself for example I bought a car today off Ebay for £350.
I have not looked at it and just took the word of the seller that it works and has a bit of rust etc.
I will hopefully change the wing, bonnet and boot lock and I have a good back up DJ vehicle.

I have broken every rule in the ebay car buyers book.
I bet there is a forum post in thier exivelent sector on exactly the same thing.
Am I bothered about that - no. I have a (hopefully) working car for peanuts.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170698508614?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_500wt_1206


Its the same for builder, gutter cleaners, piano tuners - you name it.

I attract clients that would not sniff at paying over £450 as the entertainment is important.
They have the budget and in some cases plough most of it just in to me and scrimp with other suppliers, which is always quite touching tbh.
As for anyone else then they are welcome to book the cheaper option :D

[Pe7e]

I'm supprised no one has picked up on this,

Friend: dunno what his company is called but if you get venue from a list he has he is 50 quid - good eh

It would suggest to me, £50 Fred may be a bit more business savey than you are giving him credit for. When I personally did discos, I had several landlords/venue owners who were more than happy to supply a free room and a worthwhile percentage of the bar take (over a threshold amount) if I could bring in a good sized, free spending, well behaved crowd. This was especially true for non prime nights, and I would imagine they would be plenty of hard pressed landlords happy to come to such an arrangement in the current tough financial climate. You do need to pick your venue though, the ones who are booked, or busy most nights are unlikley to play ball.

[yourdj]

And the ones you can trust to give you the correct figure

[Pe7e]

And the ones you can trust to give you the correct figure

Yes, too true, but you can estimate it if you take the numbers attending and observing their drinking behaviour, most of the time they were very happy with several thousand extra £s in their tills and paid up with a smile. You do need decent numbers, 30 or 40 people won't do.

[Excalibur]

" A Disco is just a Disco, isn't it? They're all the same. Music, flashing lights. Turn up, press play, money for old rope. "

A belief that may be very widely held, and very hard to change. :(

[Andy Goodtimes]

Another thing being missed here is that sadly some of the cheap ones out there are actually very good.

I had a friend ask me about this time last year and he was a good friend so I quoted him £150, it was a Friday night close to home, big Club with a stage door and finishing at 11.20pm sharp. The Club offered him their DJ for £80 and he said to me that price was a big issue and his family use that club and had seen the DJ many times and he was good. He used the built in system which is 4 Sound Lab speakers...one in each corner on the wall, a mirror ball and colour changer and then he put some of his own screens on the front of the stage...not really what we would call a decent system but I know this family and their circle of friends and they are a good lot and like a party and I'm sure they would have turned anything into a good night.

I always try to avoid working for friends and family if at all possible.

[Vectis]

but if you get venue from a list he has he is 50 quid


I'm just surprised that:
A) 60 quid sid is lowering his prices

No he's not, he's getting a £10 from the venue ;)





I'm just surprised that:
A) 60 quid sid is lowering his prices
B) her view on a mobile DJ is all about price
C) her perception that things like equipment, insurance and experience don't mean squat!


needadisco have been asking their clients recently to specify the most important aspect from a list of 8 by which they will judge their DJ quotes. The proportions vary slightly between weddings and non-weddings but the ?encouraging? factor is that "lowest price" sits at between 13.6% and 22.1%. OK so it's not totally scientific but they are real numbers from real punters.

Full summary here (http://www.needadisco.com/pages/memben.php)




You get what you pay for, but equally some people out there (punters that is) are doing what they can with not a lot of money.

...

Don't get bent out of shape about what you can't control.

Good advice. Focus all your time and energy on your own business with the occasional glance across your shoulder. Did anyone see the Great North Run?



" A Disco is just a Disco, isn't it? They're all the same. Music, flashing lights. Turn up, press play, money for old rope. "

A belief that may be very widely held, and very hard to change. :(

Indeed. Largely because of the number of Sids propagating the myth.



Another thing being missed here is that sadly some of the cheap ones out there are actually very good.

Indeed. It all depends what you're looking for, and a hoity-toity wedding in a posh castle will be judged very differently from a family knees-up down the local WMC.

[paulg]

Not sure why this is important. Every industry has tight people who are not too bothered about what they get.
As for people who do not have the budget then thats understandable as money does not grow on trees.

Take myself for example I bought a car today off Ebay for £350.
I have not looked at it and just took the word of the seller that it works and has a bit of rust etc.
I will hopefully change the wing, bonnet and boot lock and I have a good back up DJ vehicle.

I have broken every rule in the ebay car buyers book.
I bet there is a forum post in thier exivelent sector on exactly the same thing.
Am I bothered about that - no. I have a (hopefully) working car for peanuts.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170698508614?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_500wt_1206


Its the same for builder, gutter cleaners, piano tuners - you name it.

I attract clients that would not sniff at paying over £450 as the entertainment is important.
They have the budget and in some cases plough most of it just in to me and scrimp with other suppliers, which is always quite touching tbh.
As for anyone else then they are welcome to book the cheaper option :D

Quite right - I've just done the same myslef with some new windows - bought windows based mainly on price. Employed fitters who were buddys of the bloke that sold the windows. One of the big window companies wanted £5000 but the final job was done for £1450 and the windows are good and the fitters were two of the most diligent people i've come across. So, price certainly is not always an indicator of quality.

[yourdj]

Quite right - I've just done the same myslef with some new windows - bought windows based mainly on price. Employed fitters who were buddys of the bloke that sold the windows. One of the big window companies wanted £5000 but the final job was done for £1450 and the windows are good and the fitters were two of the most diligent people i've come across. So, price certainly is not always an indicator of quality.

Yep.

My car is quite simply awesome for the price too. Couple of electrical problems but it wont be too hard to fix. :)
Apart from the rust on the bonnet its in excellent condition too.

[mattydinx]

An update on the event, which was last night.

I now feel fully justified charging what I do!

My friend ended up not going with the £50 guy as the venue was double booked, She still ended up with an £80 DJ - I still feel that she was ripped off!

Sound system was awful, no definition to the music at all sounding muffled and dull which, incidentally, was also too loud.
Lighting Rig consisted of two 4-way light boxes on S2L mode with the sensitivity turned up too high and a T-Bar with two moonflowers on, one of which didn't work.

Overall presentation was disgusting, wires everywhere, no frontage to hide things behind, just a table, a laptop and the DJ sitting down behind it all night.

Music selection was a tad obscure too, the Buffet opens and his first song is...Dead or Alive - you spin me round, followed by Red Hot Chili Peppers - By the way, followed by Will Smith - Men In Black...Not what i'd choose personally, I don't know about you lot...

Needless to say, I feel it's people putting out shows like that which are damaging this industry, who appear to take no pride in the services they provide.
I know we'll never stop it, there'll always be "that guy who does cheap discos" - It's just made me appreciate and justify what I provide to my clients so much more.

[ppentertainments]

To be fair if you are getting a £80 disco that looks and performs as you have mentioned, you have nothing to worry about. Its the ones who go out for this price and provide fantastic service with high levels of equipment that you should be concerned about - and there is an increasing number on the go :eek:

[NKR]

Just had a conversation with a 'friend' enquiring how much I'd charge for a party. They didn't have specifics (no venue, no times - helpful...NAAT!) but as a favour I quoted her a ball-park figure with a bit knocked off.

The conversation followed like this....

Me: if your party's 7:30 till 12 I'd do it for £140
Friend: pffffff


Me - No worries I wil leave you to it.

Conversation ends and thats the end of it.

Its like trying to discuss quantum physics with a 2 year old. Why bother.

I now start all my conversations with people enquiring are you looking for the best price or a quality service. Best price answers I politely point out I can't beat the price they have had and leave it there.

Why waste five minutes of your life banging you head against a wall?


An update on the event, which was last night.

I now feel fully justified charging what I do!

My friend ended up not going with the £50 guy as the venue was double booked, She still ended up with an £80 DJ - I still feel that she was ripped off!

Sound system was awful, no definition to the music at all sounding muffled and dull which, incidentally, was also too loud.
Lighting Rig consisted of two 4-way light boxes on S2L mode with the sensitivity turned up too high and a T-Bar with two moonflowers on, one of which didn't work.

Overall presentation was disgusting, wires everywhere, no frontage to hide things behind, just a table, a laptop and the DJ sitting down behind it all night.

Music selection was a tad obscure too, the Buffet opens and his first song is...Dead or Alive - you spin me round, followed by Red Hot Chili Peppers - By the way, followed by Will Smith - Men In Black...Not what i'd choose personally, I don't know about you lot...

Needless to say, I feel it's people putting out shows like that which are damaging this industry, who appear to take no pride in the services they provide.
I know we'll never stop it, there'll always be "that guy who does cheap discos" - It's just made me appreciate and justify what I provide to my clients so much more.

Was your friend happy? Did the dance floor stay full? These are the interesting questions you hvae failed to address as if it was also a poor night then thats justification. If everyone danced all night its time to worry.

[supersound]

To be fair if you are getting a £80 disco that looks and performs as you have mentioned, you have nothing to worry about. Its the ones who go out for this price and provide fantastic service with high levels of equipment that you should be concerned about - and there is an increasing number on the go :eek:

Hand up....

SORRY

But what can you do if you are a lone swan in a lake of ducks?To survive I have to act like the ducks sometimes.
If I wasnt full time It might be different.
Incidentlty,the low payers I take on are last min from a local DJ.
But this is what I have to do to survive,that and travel further affeild.

Paul

[JAMdisco]

Hand up....

SORRY

But what can you do if you are a lone swan in a lake of ducks?To survive I have to act like the ducks sometimes.
If I wasnt full time It might be different.
Incidentlty,the low payers I take on are last min from a local DJ.
But this is what I have to do to survive,that and travel further affeild.

Paul

Surely your chance to 'shine' and be the brightest star.
I'm not full time and to be fair, would very much struggle to pay my day-to-day bills and debts - hopefully one day it might happen but for now, I like the extra money :)

Only problem is by doing 'low payers' (even for other DJ's) is that is still giving the perception that that is the 'going rate'. Only hurts us in the long run.

I know for a fact that a lot (not all) of DJ's here in East Yorkshire do weddings for around the £200 - £250 region. If the more established and professional DJ's started charging more then surely we'd all be better off - leave the 'low-payers' to the low-pay seekers...

[NKR]

Surely your chance to 'shine' and be the brightest star.
I'm not full time and to be fair, would very much struggle to pay my day-to-day bills and debts - hopefully one day it might happen but for now, I like the extra money :)

Only problem is by doing 'low payers' (even for other DJ's) is that is still giving the perception that that is the 'going rate'. Only hurts us in the long run.

I know for a fact that a lot (not all) of DJ's here in East Yorkshire do weddings for around the £200 - £250 region. If the more established and professional DJ's started charging more then surely we'd all be better off - leave the 'low-payers' to the low-pay seekers...

I put out about £10,000 of equipment, my 13 years plus of experience and talent for £250 for a wedding. For a nights work its seems fine to me. Double it and you get an excellent singer too. If £250 is seeking the low payers then send them all my way.

[Penfold42]

Me: if your party's 7:30 till 12 I'd do it for £140
Friend: pffffff
Me: and that's cheap, others charge upwards of £200
Friend: nah i can get a lot cheaper


Conversation wouldn't have gone any futher than that in my books. :D

[Charlie Brown]

I put out about £10,000 of equipment, my 13 years plus of experience and talent for £250 for a wedding. For a nights work its seems fine to me. Double it and you get an excellent singer too. If £250 is seeking the low payers then send them all my way.

Without turning this into a 'price wars thread' - £250 is very cheap for a decent wedding DJ, IMO.

You want to be looking at £350+at least.

You're worth more than £250. Especially when the mother in law spent quadruple that on a Victoria sponge.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

For a nights work its seems fine to me.

You don't have any expenses or do any preparation then?

[djtrev]

I put out about £10,000 of equipment, my 13 years plus of experience and talent for £250 for a wedding. For a nights work its seems fine to me. Double it and you get an excellent singer too. If £250 is seeking the low payers then send them all my way.

Yes it doesnt seem a bad return for nights work to me either.

[Shaun]

Yes it doesnt seem a bad return for nights work to me either.

That depends on a lot of factors...

Included and not limited to...

Total running costs (http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15309) of your business
Amount of time invested in each event
Level of experience you offer
Profit margin you want to make
Amount invested in your gear

Etc...

[djtrev]

That depends on a lot of factors...

Included and not limited to...

Total running costs (http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15309) of your business
Amount of time invested in each event
Level of experience you offer
Profit margin you want to make
Amount invested in your gear

Etc...

Yes and these would vary from person to person.

[Shaun]

Obviously. But it never fails to amaze me just how many people overlook the most fundamental apsects of business.

[djtrev]

Furthermore.

It's my hobby not my business.
I am retired so I have all the time necessary.
Not so sure that I would put a particular value on experience - expertise maybe but not experience.
As a hobbyist profit is a win situation.Nobody could sustain a constant loss situation not even me with my annoying outlook on this 'business'.To be honest customer satisfaction would take preference over profit with me.
Lots of people say its you they are paying for not your gear.So if its not broke I dont invest.Not a high end investment person either.

Hence my responce to NKR.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Furthermore.

It's my hobby not my business.
I am retired so I have all the time necessary.
Not so sure that I would put a particular value on experience - expertise maybe but not experience.
As a hobbyist profit is a win situation.Nobody could sustain a constant loss situation not even me with my annoying outlook on this 'business'.To be honest customer satisfaction would take preference over profit with me.
Lots of people say its you they are paying for not your gear.So if its not broke I dont invest.Not a high end investment person either.

Hence my responce to NKR.
:zip:

[DazzyD]

Without turning this into a 'price wars thread' - £250 is very cheap for a decent wedding DJ, IMO.

You want to be looking at £350+at least.

You're worth more than £250. Especially when the mother in law spent quadruple that on a Victoria sponge.

It's funny 'cos it's true!!

:lol:

[JAMdisco]

Furthermore.

It's my hobby not my business.
I am retired so I have all the time necessary.
Not so sure that I would put a particular value on experience - expertise maybe but not experience.
As a hobbyist profit is a win situation.Nobody could sustain a constant loss situation not even me with my annoying outlook on this 'business'.To be honest customer satisfaction would take preference over profit with me.
Lots of people say its you they are paying for not your gear.So if its not broke I dont invest.Not a high end investment person either.

Hence my responce to NKR.

Sorry Trev, but if you're charging people for a service (i.e. DJ, Disco) then it is a business, you may treat it as a hobby but the taxman will still want his slice of the pie!!!

As for time, I put in a lot of preparation for a disco (particularly weddings) and I would love to factor this into the price - £250 is the going rate round here as I said even though I've managed to catch a few well paid ones (£350 up) but not many, hence lowering my prices. One client even wanted to meet several DJ's (understandable really) and they chose another disco because "they were £50 cheaper". They did say I was a close second choice - yeah that made me feel better...NOT! Like I always say, it's not the taking part that counts... it's the winning :D

[djtrev]

:zip:

Oh go on.You know you want to.
But keep it civil!!!


Sorry Trev, but if you're charging people for a service (i.e. DJ, Disco) then it is a business, you may treat it as a hobby but the taxman will still want his slice of the pie!!!

As for time, I put in a lot of preparation for a disco (particularly weddings) and I would love to factor this into the price - £250 is the going rate round here as I said even though I've managed to catch a few well paid ones (£350 up) but not many, hence lowering my prices. One client even wanted to meet several DJ's (understandable really) and they chose another disco because "they were £50 cheaper". They did say I was a close second choice - yeah that made me feel better...NOT! Like I always say, it's not the taking part that counts... it's the winning :D

Yes I have to do self assessment at the end of the year and if I make a profit the taxman gets his slice si I am no different from everyone else.

As for price chasers.I have no problem with that at all.If the client doesnt want to pay my price because they can get it cheaper than £60 then who am I to argue.
That last bit wasn't actually true.

[NKR]

Without turning this into a 'price wars thread' - £250 is very cheap for a decent wedding DJ, IMO.

You want to be looking at £350+at least.

You're worth more than £250. Especially when the mother in law spent quadruple that on a Victoria sponge.

Maybe so, but the definition of worth is what someone is willing to pay for something. We do okay at that price and that is the benchmark for me.


You don't have any expenses or do any preparation then?

Prep on a wedding is about 1 hour once you have had a meeting or telephone conversation and downloaded the first dance and checked the playlist. Expenses - fuel. Errr, yep everything else is structural costs and does not chang whether I go out or sit at home.


That depends on a lot of factors...

Included and not limited to...

Total running costs (http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=15309) of your business
Amount of time invested in each event
Level of experience you offer
Profit margin you want to make
Amount invested in your gear

Etc...

1. Running costs in the most part are structural and will not change if you do a job or not. Yes they need to be calculated and ensure there is enough work to cover them.
2. Time is the time on site and probably about 1 hour extra per event as it is fairly standard fayre for us. Messing with kit etc is something that just needs doing, so its not part of any specific job delivery. I say it regularly but if someone turned up to do some joinery for me and then added some on for servicing the circular saw I would be confused.
3. A lot and very good too.
4. Some. I am not living on it, which is helpful.
5. A lot. Need nice toys to make good weddings.

The point is I am not living off it, so its all good.

The other point is our prices move forward every year due to supply and demand factors. We are now in more demand so supply is more limited so cost goes up.
The other important factor to consider is we do less and less jobs as DJ only and actually go out for double £250 and much more regularly as the singing side is very popular.

A £250 DJ package has a very good potential to upsell to a singer DJ package and therefore double income per job (which happens more and more). Same people on site, bit more set up, bit more kit, but not twice the work. Therefore all of the above in terms of time, fixed costs etc is dealt with.
So although many will question my business nouse by being too cheap, they may be missing the point that we attract interest by being less and then come out with more. Yes we do still do some £250 DJ jobs. Its better than not having the kit busy.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall sometimes and that people learn nothing.

Forget Trev, he won't be convinced that charging for a disco is business and Neil, I would have thought you of all people would understand what goes into a business. Specific job delivery? Sorry, pretentious nonsense.

[djtrev]

Very good post and explained in a very simple terms.

Darren you appear to miss the point of my posts.
I am well aware of what you are always trying to convince me of and your views are not ignored.You are not wasting your time at all,its just not the way I want to operate.After all I do have that choice.
I still have to inform the revenue of my financial position at the end of the year but as I hardly have any work(because I no longer go looking for it) the chances are that I will make little or no profit.As long as I can absorb that then I dont worry about it.Of course if it got to a rediculous level then I would have to re-evaluate my position.
My only real expense is music,which I would probably collect anyway disco or not,PLI which is so cheap as to not matter and PAT because I think it is more than likely a requirement,legal or otherwise.
Equipment is all paid for and as I say unless its broken it wont be replaced.
So to me an evening earning £250 would be no problem.
I respect you and people like Colin Cook for the way you have built your business up to the level that it is but it is not for me and I have 'cut my cloth' accordingly.

[chrisj]

Oh go on.You know you want to.
But keep it civil!!!



Yes I have to do self assessment at the end of the year and if I make a profit the taxman gets his slice si I am no different from everyone else.

As for price chasers.I have no problem with that at all.If the client doesnt want to pay my price because they can get it cheaper than £60 then who am I to argue.
That last bit wasn't actually true.

And this is Sev...enty quid Trev HA Ha... no I know him better than that.
Sorry Trev, I had to get it in. Are we still mates?

[djtrev]

And this is Sev...enty quid Trev HA Ha... no I know him better than that.
Sorry Trev, I had to get it in. Are we still mates?

As long as you pass me on the crap that you dont want to do.

[chrisj]

I have a wedding on Wednesday. In a converted barn function room 7 until 11.45pm 2 warlocks on tripods 1.5m apart with starcloth frontage, multi-colour laser and 4 or 6 (if time during table turnaround) mood lights. £225.
I was pushing for £275 and it was hard to get £225 but it is a Wednesday and better than no gig at all.
I have done some work for it already though the couple live too far away to visit. I will load at 4.30 and hit the road at 5 to be there at 5.45. If they have not finished their wedding breakfast it is the usual hang about but I usually get a coffee in the kitchen.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

My only real expense is music

No it isn't. It's the only one you claim for. Enough said.

[djtrev]

Sorry Darren I am not sure of your point

[NKR]

I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall sometimes and that people learn nothing.

Forget Trev, he won't be convinced that charging for a disco is business and Neil, I would have thought you of all people would understand what goes into a business. Specific job delivery? Sorry, pretentious nonsense.

Its not really pretentious nonsense is it. Actually tinkering with and keeping kit clean and running is not specific to any single job delivery.
I do understand fully what goes into a business. Believe me I am not let loose with a very extensive property portfolio because I am completely numb.
The bit that seems to bypass everyone is free market economies run on supply and demand and if there is tonnes of supply and limited demand as is happening at present then you need to be in the bun fight.
Can I make a happy profit from £250 a job - yes I can (well as I said before we upsell a hell of a lot these days). Will we raise prices if demand becomes such that we are turning down jobs left right and centre - if that day ever comes then yes. However, in order to establish that market position I need to ensure market exposure. £250 is above where we were and demand is ensuring it is achievable. If we ever get to £350 a job like Charlie states earlier then what will be different - more profit. The expenses we have carried for the preceding years are structural and not any particular job specific.
Year one did we hold out and say we are worth £350. No we would have done maybe one job. If our annual expenses were running at £3000 we would have made a roaring loss. Instead in year 1 we were £120 for a big wedding disco and £150 if we got a good price. If we did 30 jobs we had covered the structural costs and made a bit. Year 2 we were between £150 and £175 and got some singing stuff for £250 to £275 too. Progress and the structural costs of PLI and PAT etc remain static as does home office, car insurance, etc (to a degree I know car insurance can go up etc). Figures are for illustration purposes only, although gig values are about where we were.
So yes I do understand what goes into a business and currently we are at the £250 cycle of things.
Sorry if that means I am taking someone elses work as I am cheaper. That is what its all about. Get in front of someone and prove you can deliver. Yes I know how business works.

[Corabar Steve]

Trev, apart from anything else, by going out cheap, you're devaluing everyone else.

How would you feel if your your pension was cut because my mum decided that she only needed a fiver to live on? A little extreme I know, but it boils down to the same thing.

You go out for silly money, it has a knock on effect on those of us that rely on our business as our sole income

[djtrev]

It depends on your perception of cheap.
Given that the figure that prompted the response from Darren was £250 I have to say that in this day and age that is a very good wage for a day never mind an evening.Certainly not silly money.
As for your analogy Steve.At this moment in time I would be quite happy to accept £250 A WEEK just as your mother is quite happy...........My pension would be cut because it is paid by the same people who are paying your mother.
The people paying me £250 aren't your customers.I am in the WMC you are in the Castle.
Your analogy doesnt quite work-but I know what you are getting at.
The fact that it is your sole income is a decision that you made and has no bearing on the level that I put my services.

[NKR]

Trev, apart from anything else, by going out cheap, you're devaluing everyone else.

How would you feel if your your pension was cut because my mum decided that she only needed a fiver to live on? A little extreme I know, but it boils down to the same thing.

You go out for silly money, it has a knock on effect on those of us that rely on our business as our sole income

But that is free market economy. If he chooses to provided a service at a certain cost and the consumer chooses to accept that the service meets their needs then so be it.
Its a bit like Argos complaining that Ebay does them out of business because you can buy the same thing they are selling second hand. Or the ongoing complaint of the high street that Amazon are knocking spots off them. That is the nature of free markets.
A right to choice.
I would remind you how excited the public get when there is mention of price fixing from major corporations such as supermarkets and energy providers. Its just not cricket we all shout.
Business is a competitive market place and the more in that market place the more competitive it gets. To complain that something is being devalued is like Sony complaining that flat screen telly's are now too cheap because cheaper brands have got on the bandwagon. You pays your money and you takes your choice.
I don't get excited by lower priced operators or higher priced operators. I place myself in the market where I feel the demand will sustain us and aim to grow demand through performance.

[BeerFunk]

But that is free market economy. If he chooses to provided a service at a certain cost and the consumer chooses to accept that the service meets their needs then so be it.
Its a bit like Argos complaining that Ebay does them out of business because you can buy the same thing they are selling second hand. Or the ongoing complaint of the high street that Amazon are knocking spots off them. That is the nature of free markets.
A right to choice.
I would remind you how excited the public get when there is mention of price fixing from major corporations such as supermarkets and energy providers. Its just not cricket we all shout.
Business is a competitive market place and the more in that market place the more competitive it gets. To complain that something is being devalued is like Sony complaining that flat screen telly's are now too cheap because cheaper brands have got on the bandwagon. You pays your money and you takes your choice.
I don't get excited by lower priced operators or higher priced operators. I place myself in the market where I feel the demand will sustain us and aim to grow demand through performance.No disrespect meant here, but what is it with this forum and irrelevant analogies? :)

I don't see eBay, Amazon et al working for 'fun', and relying on other sources of income so that it doesn't matter if their business falls through. I get what you're trying to say, but it really doesn't apply.

[NKR]

No disrespect meant here, but what is it with this forum and irrelevant analogies? :)

I don't see eBay, Amazon et al working for 'fun', and relying on other sources of income so that it doesn't matter if their business falls through. I get what you're trying to say, but it really doesn't apply.

Why not?

Sorry but to criticise what people choose to charge as devaluing everybody is perfectly relevant to the analogies. Free market - hence if people choose to do it part time then they are free to do so and free to charge what they like as long as everything is legal and above board.
Its the simple rules of competition - whether that competition is from big business or someone doing part time or hobbying. Why should they not be allowed to do what they wish - again legal and above board.

[djtrev]

A bit of a***e kissing here.
I have to agree with everything that NRG is saying.
Excellent posts.

[Corabar Entertainment]

A bit of a***e kissing here.
I have to agree with everything that NRG is saying.
Excellent posts.

1. You can say 'arse' - if it was blocked by the forum censor, adding the asterisks to get around it would be breaking the forum rules

2. Don't be insulting

3. I presume you mean NKR? (Who the heck is NRG?!?!?!?!?!)

[DJDC]

I've found the banter, dialogue and discussion very intersting.

I see work that I've bid £150 for going to 'cheaper' DJ's who put in 1/2 the time, effort and rig, I also know DJ's who will charge over £200 for the same type of work and get it. Sometimes its a little pot luck, certianly I've seen that with some website enquiries I've had. Quoted prices lost out by £10 only to end up covering the job for the other DJ!

I usually start at £150- £160 as that's what I need based on the usual levels of work to break even, and feel for the venues I often work in is appropiate for the kit I use, and my services, I have a full time job have seen DJ'ing as a hobby for 26 years, and usually just make enough to break even. In the last 12 months I've replaced everything and am owed a few £k so I have had to review what I need to charge.
I did this partially because i'd run the same small rig for 5 years, 4 datamoons and 8 pin spots, and a pair of eon 1500's, and a denon Dn1800 CD player, I was getting £120 jobs no problem, but found the circuit very limiting. So needed to up the game a little again.

I've seen the DJ's who charge less, but like others I've seen the quality, and these were often not your 17yr olds starting out which is what you'd usually expect and accept, although I'd say I saw the same 15- 20 years ago. Thecheaper venues also seem to be on the decrease, many were your local pubs and WMC and £80 -£120 was about the usual rate, travel round Birmingham, and the number of the type of venues is very different to a few years ago.

Would I go out for less than £150 well I do, as it's better than the kit sitting here owing me money, but you pay less you'll get a little less kit, I won't carry around 4 moving heads, centre pieces, 4 speaker systems, colour washes etc, if it involves a lot of travel, difficult access or more than the standard 7.30 - 11.30 hours, then no I'll spend the time with the family or reading the forums? I'm worth more than £120, and from what I see on the forum so are all of you.

[DJ Paulie]

Just to throw a little something into this thread ! I did 2 xmas parties for Butlers chocolates here last year and charged them €280 for each one. They booked a room in 2 different hotels here, but they were pretty much the same. (xcept the second one I used the in house PA)

This year they asked for a quote for just one big party as they were trying to cut down costs. I pitched in at €300 explaining rise in costs blah blah. They came back and said that was a little over thier budget, so I went down to €280, they said if i could do it for €250 and they would feed & water me I'd have a booking. I accepted as I look at it as everyone at that party is a potential client.

They had a venue booked but there was a problem so they changed it. I went to see the venue to see what the access, space and power socket situation was and was told they had the whole of the ground floor bar for them, then the club downstairs shared with 2 other parties of 120 ! So just goes to show that companies are cutting back, but not on venues !

The good thing about the gig is I only have to take my 00Dj & mixer, plug into the house PA upstairs, then move down to the club at about 11pm to plug into the PA in there. They've even got a desktop PC set up for the lighting, so probably have to share the booth with a lighting jock ! I'll get the train in and a taxi back happy days !

[Excalibur]

3. I presume you mean NKR? (Who the heck is NRG?!?!?!?!?!)

Errr, it may be a form of popular beat music. I have played some on occasion, I seem to remember. ;) :D :D

[djtrev]

2. Don't be insulting

3. I presume you mean NKR? (Who the heck is NRG?!?!?!?!?!)

Sorry,I didn't realise that I had insulted anybody.
Yes of course,NKR.I have a feeling there is or was a NRG on another forum.

[Corabar Steve]

It depends on your perception of cheap.
Given that the figure that prompted the response from Darren was £250 I have to say that in this day and age that is a very good wage for a day never mind an evening.Certainly not silly money.
As for your analogy Steve.At this moment in time I would be quite happy to accept £250 A WEEK just as your mother is quite happy...........My pension would be cut because it is paid by the same people who are paying your mother.
The people paying me £250 aren't your customers.I am in the WMC you are in the Castle.
Your analogy doesnt quite work-but I know what you are getting at.
The fact that it is your sole income is a decision that you made and has no bearing on the level that I put my services.
You're missing my point. If she was happy with £5 a week, then why shouldn't you be? Exactly what a potential punter would think. If DJ X can do it for £XXX why can't DJ Y?

I've said this before & got flack for it, but I stand by it.

Part time hobbyists should pack it in & clear the way for full time professionals, or up their game* & charge a realistic rate so that they are not perceived as a bargain to potential customers that would otherwise give their custom to somebody who relies on it for their living.

If everyone that provided a quality show did this, the price perceived for "value for money" would be higher.


The fact that it is your sole income is a decision that you made and has no bearing on the level that I put my services.The fact that it's my sole income was not a choice made lightly, it was a career choice, just as the choice of what you did for a living before you started drawing your pension was for you.

What gets my goat is folks that think they can do what I do for a living as a hobby when they really ought to be trainspotting, stamp collecting or taking up macrame.

If it's something you enjoy so much, why don't you do discos for free? You've already stated that you have no expenses other than the music that you would've bought anyway, so why not go out for nothing other than your fuel costs to & from the gig?

Put it on your advertising while you're at it. I'm sure you could spend so much more time doing your hobby once word got out that you were giving away discos because you enjoy doing them so much.



*by up their game, I mean get everything to a standard of quality & presentation, not necessarily by getting higher quality kit (budget & mid range kit can look the biz if presented correctly after all), & I'm not insinuating that part timers are of a lower quality than those of us who do this for a living.

[paulg]

The fact that it's my sole income was not a choice made lightly, it was a career choice.

So you made the wrong choice and the expect everyone around you to move over or form a price cartel with you?

You suggest that your own standards and presentation are ideal or should be seen as an exemplar and yet, looking at your website, you don't stand out in any way?

It's time you considered a day job.

[Corabar Steve]

No, I don't expect folks to make a mockery of my career by using it as a alternative to planespotting or needlework.

Imagine if people decided to take up plumbing, or dentistry as hobbies.


People shouldn't need to stand out. If the standard was sufficient across the board then we wouldn't be having this conversation, because potential customers would see the true worth of quality entertainment as opposed not somebody looking for something to do in their free time.

FYI, it's not my website. I'm an employee.



Oh & it's not a wrong career choice, because I'm a bloody good DJ! & there's no need for a day job, I make enough as it is thanks.

[djtrev]

What gets my goat is folks that think they can do what I do for a living as a hobby when they really ought to be trainspotting, stamp collecting or taking up macrame.

If it's something you enjoy so much, why don't you do discos for free? You've already stated that you have no expenses other than the music that you would've bought anyway, so why not go out for nothing other than your fuel costs to & from the gig?

Put it on your advertising while you're at it. I'm sure you could spend so much more time doing your hobby once word got out that you were giving away discos because you enjoy doing them so much.



.

You know as well as I do that there are lots of djs out there that are not full time and are basically hobbyists doing a very good job and whatsmore are too busy to keep up their hobby of trainspotting,stamp collecting or macrame.

Because of the lack of smileys I assume you were serious about the free discos.
Now surely that would do more harm to professionals who do it for a living as you do than me charging what you assume to be silly money.
And dont think I haven't thought about it because I have but I wouldn't expect you to understand.

[DJ Paulie]

:grouphug: lets all calm down shall we, some of us work part time (and that's our choice) others work full time. The country(s) are big enough to accommodate all of us. If we didn't make enough money to live on we would all sell up. I agree with some of the points raised, but let's not have this go down to a 'I work harder than you so don't work for peanuts' slanging match !

[paulg]

Oh & it's not a wrong carer choice, because I'm a bloody good DJ! & there's no need for a day job, I make enough as it is thanks.

So you make enough. What's the issue then?

[djtrev]

No, I don't expect folks to make a mockery of my career by using it as a alternative to planespotting or needlework.

Imagine if people decided to take up plumbing, or dentistry as hobbies.


.

If they are competant enough and cost effective I assume we would use them just as yours or my customers would decide if I was cost effective.

I am not sure what other reaction you expected from that statement Steve.

[Corabar Steve]

Because of the lack of smileys I assume you were serious about the free discos.
Now surely that would do more harm to professionals who do it for a living as you do than me charging what you assume to be silly money.
And dont think I haven't thought about it because I have but I wouldn't expect you to understand.
I was. TBH I think somebody being totally honest & stating clearly that they are only doing it for fun & therefore no charge would have less of an impact than people charging less than their real value.

There are always going to be folks after a bargain, likewise there are always going to be people who wouldn't touch a part-timer or hobbyist with a barge pole (& it's not just high end clients that think that way. A pub that booked us for a Halloween party made a point of confirming we weren't (& I quote) "some fly by night part-timers"). The bargain hunters would be thrilled to get a freebie a lot wouldn't go near it.

[Corabar Steve]

So you make enough. What's the issue then?
If I have to explain.......

[djtrev]

:grouphug: lets all calm down shall we, some of us work part time (and that's our choice) others work full time. The country(s) are big enough to accommodate all of us. If we didn't make enough money to live on we would all sell up. I agree with some of the points raised, but let's not have this go down to a 'I work harder than you so don't work for peanuts' slanging match !

Calm down?
Everything is fine at the moment and fairly civil.I am assuming its light hearted banter.I respect where Steve and Darren are coming from but its not for me and I will try to fight my corner as best I can.

[Corabar Steve]

If they are competant enough and cost effective I assume we would use them just as yours or my customers would decide if I was cost effective.

I am not sure what other reaction you expected from that statement Steve.But you'd sympathise with the rightly peeved professionals wouldn't you.

I want to make it clear, I'm not slagging off all part-timers. I know lots of you that put out quality shows & are very good at what you do. Just the ones that devalue the whole industry with sub standard shows & sub stardard fees.

[djtrev]

I want to make it clear, I'm not slagging off all part-timers. I know lots ofyou that put out quality shows & are very good at what you do. Just the ones that devalue the whole industry with sub standard shoes & sub stardard fees.

I am sure we would all agree with that but that is not what you said.Your statement inferred that you were talking about all hobbyists.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

sub standard shoes

:D

[Corabar Steve]

Too late Daz, I edited a minute before you posted :P :moon: :P

[djtrev]

But you'd sympathise with the rightly peeved professionals wouldn't you.

.

I wouldn't say I would sympathise with them but I would understand why they might be peeved.I certainly wouldn't feel sorry for them.

[Corabar Steve]

I am sure we would all agree with that but that is not what you said.Your statement inferred that you were talking about all hobbyists.
I actlally inferred that it was the ones that charge peanuts & can't see that it's their fault that those of us that charge a realistic fee considering what goes into each gig get comments like "I just want to hire you for the night not buy it!" etc

The ones that seem to think it's OK to work from an unflightcased mixer on a table etc

The ones that can't see that alhough it's their hobby, once a fee is taken it ceases to be just a hobby, it's a business...

I could go on.

[Corabar Steve]

I certainly wouldn't feel sorry for them.Why's that?

[djtrev]

. A pub that booked us for a Halloween party made a point of confirming we weren't (& I quote) "some fly by night part-timers"). .

But this discussion is not about fly by night part-timers.
We are talking competant djs who can put on a good show but chose to set their fees at a lower level than you.
It is their choice.

[Corabar Steve]

You've missed the point of that post & have taken that quote completely out of context

[djtrev]

Talking of silly money.
I dont know him and I have never met him but a lot of us have heard of *Paul from SuperSounds(I think I have got that right).From all accounts a competant and reliable DJ.
He openly stated recently that he has gone out for silly money.I think it was £80,just to fill an empty night.
How do you feel about that sort of situation?

*I am only using Paul as an example because I think most of us know him and he fits the bill as NOT a fly by night part-timer

[surround sounds]

I think there is room for all types of djs etc..
People are stating that part timers are making it hard for the full timers but not in all cases..Not many full timers would be a local pub for £120 but some part timers would..
I am a part timer and my average gig for this year was £317 and yes i did a few at £195 but a fair few over £400 but i am busy every week and happy with the money i get..Someone who does discos at £80-£120, thats completely up to them but to be honest that would not effect my business cause i do not want them types of customers or venues.
So in this industry there is room for all types of djs because its up to the customer to choose,i know some people who would not pay over £130 for a disco and if there was no discos at that price they would not bother with a party..

[Excalibur]

Because of the lack of smileys I assume you were serious about the free discos.
.
Actually, that's one of the responses given when shops are asked why they dump perfectly good food, rather than give it away.Logic being that it would lower the prices as folk waited for it to be given away to the"Needy".


But you'd sympathise with the rightly peeved professionals wouldn't you.

I want to make it clear, I'm not slagging off all part-timers. I know lots of you that put out quality shows & are very good at what you do. Just the ones that devalue the whole industry with sub standard shows & sub stardard fees.
Here I suspect the whole forum is staunchly behind you to a Man and Woman.


Too late Daz, I edited a minute before you posted :P :moon: :P
Mayhap. You however missed the quotes in #63 and #64. :p :D :D


Talking of silly money.
I dont know him and I have never met him but a lot of us have heard of *Paul from SuperSounds(I think I have got that right).From all accounts a competant and reliable DJ.
He openly stated recently that he has gone out for silly money.I think it was £80,just to fill an empty night.
How do you feel about that sort of situation?

*I am only using Paul as an example because I think most of us know him and he fits the bill as NOT a fly by night part-timer

Ah. Up to now, I haven't entered this discussion much, as I have more questions than answers. I will however say that I understand the logic of taking work at lower than normal fees, when that money feeds the family. I've done it before, and I'll do it again. I also know of more folk on here who hold broadly similar views.

If your income from Discos is not all of or a vital part of your livelihood, you are perfectly justified in setting a minimum fee, and sticking to it, just as you are also justified in having a minimum fee way below that of the professionals.

This is a tricky one for me, as I am definitely Poacher turned Gamekeeper both in the Day Job, and the Disco.

[Corabar Steve]

Mayhap. You however missed the quotes in #63 and #64. :p :D :D
Mayhap you missed the time of my edit in post #62 :P

This is beginning to go round in circles I'm going to do a Rob bow out

[DJ Paulie]

I use a unflightcased mixer ! But it's in a aluminium case for transit :)

[juicylucy]

There are always analogies with plumbers, carpenters, dentists et al but they are all professionally qualified so maybe the answer is to campaign for some sort of legal requirement (other than pat,pli etc). We all take payment from our gigs so that makes us either pro or semi pro doesn't it?

[NKR]

But you'd sympathise with the rightly peeved professionals wouldn't you.

I want to make it clear, I'm not slagging off all part-timers. I know lots of you that put out quality shows & are very good at what you do. Just the ones that devalue the whole industry with sub standard shows & sub stardard fees.

This all started from a discussion on £250 fees not being bad for a nights work. do two of them a weekend and add a few christmas gigs and you are on the UK's average salary. Yes you have a van an petrol, but Mr average salary has to have a car and or commute on trains, etc. Has other expenses such as work attire, Union fees (if appropriate) etc. Point being everyone has expenses.


I wouldn't say I would sympathise with them but I would understand why they might be peeved.I certainly wouldn't feel sorry for them.

I would not be peeved. If someone wants to spend 7 years training to do the job I do feel free. Yes supply and demand again. We are not all capable of being dentists, etc. Hence the premium from supply side. DJ'ing is much simpler to set up in and legally.


I actlally inferred that it was the ones that charge peanuts & can't see that it's their fault that those of us that charge a realistic fee considering what goes into each gig get comments like "I just want to hire you for the night not buy it!" etc

The ones that seem to think it's OK to work from an unflightcased mixer on a table etc

The ones that can't see that alhough it's their hobby, once a fee is taken it ceases to be just a hobby, it's a business...

I could go on.

Yes my hobby is a business and I put out an excellent show and service. However, I still feel £250 is a reasonable fee for an evenings work.


There are always analogies with plumbers, carpenters, dentists et al but they are all professionally qualified so maybe the answer is to campaign for some sort of legal requirement (other than pat,pli etc). We all take payment from our gigs so that makes us either pro or semi pro doesn't it?

Make whatever legal requirement you want. The essence of it is being able to set up kit (not rocket science) and then play MP3's or CD's (not rocket science either). The hard part is being talented. Plenty of poor singers about quoting buttons for weddings, but its easier to prove they are not so good.

You choose to make an industry that is accessible to the average Joe your career you need to be prepared for wide, plentiful and varied competition.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

This all started from a discussion on £250 fees not being bad for a nights work. do two of them a weekend and add a few christmas gigs and you are on the UK's average salary. Yes you have a van an petrol, but Mr average salary has to have a car and or commute on trains, etc. Has other expenses such as work attire, Union fees (if appropriate) etc. Point being everyone has expenses.


Mr Average salary doesn't have to buy all his own equipment if he is employed by another company - he gets given it to do his job. He doesn't have to advertise or do his own marketing.

He doesn't have to buy insurance or gear or pay for repairs or servicing. I could go on, but I think I have made my point.




Yes my hobby is a business and I put out an excellent show and service. However, I still feel £250 is a reasonable fee for an evenings work.


And if it was your living, would you still consider £250 a night a reasonable fee, especially as you may only have one or two main earning opportunities a week?

[NKR]

Mr Average salary doesn't have to buy all his own equipment if he is employed by another company - he gets given it to do his job. He doesn't have to advertise or do his own marketing.

He doesn't have to buy insurance or gear or pay for repairs or servicing. I could go on, but I think I have made my point.



And if it was your living, would you still consider £250 a night a reasonable fee, especially as you may only have one or two main earning opportunities a week?

Point one - Expenses all of which are tax deducatable where Mr average does not have the benefit of thus when commuting, running his car and buying his suits.. Also as a business you are no doubt set up in such a way as to be tax efficient, which Mr average does not have the benefit of. Equipment is a generally one off cost with some repairs and improvement and is written down also reducing tax outlay.

Point 2 - This is where you and I keep going round in circles Darren.
To expect Mr average to pay for the fact a DJ only has two main earning opportunities, when some of them may be working two jobs themselves to pay for their special day is probably not going to wash.

I would not make it my main source of income as two days paying work opportunities is just not viable as a full time occupation for me. I however, use the two days I am not gainfully employed to use the talent I have to make additional income, whilst doing something I really enjoy.
I provide as good a service as my full time contemporaries and at fee that I see as reasonable for my efforts.

Mr averages take home pay is about £1,600 per calender month. That is however national average and in northern quarters such as the north west it is probably more like £1,250 per calender month (£18k equivalent).

To ask someone for 20% of their monthly income for an evening of disco entertainment is about right in my view.

Its my view on how to operate my business and I am happy with my model. If it interupts other peoples models that is unfortunate and I apologise, but it is how I will continue.

[Danno13]

Point one - Expenses all of which are tax deducatable where Mr average does not have the benefit of thus when commuting, running his car and buying his suits.. Also as a business you are no doubt set up in such a way as to be tax efficient, which Mr average does not have the benefit of. Equipment is a generally one off cost with some repairs and improvement and is written down also reducing tax outlay.

But the other 80% still comes off what you take home!


Point 2 - This is where you and I keep going round in circles Darren.
To expect Mr average to pay for the fact a DJ only has two main earning opportunities, when some of them may be working two jobs themselves to pay for their special day is probably not going to wash.

But those two days could easily equate to 24 hours working time when you include travelling, setup etc. plus the prep time for each gig and other time spent running the business.



Mr averages take home pay is about £1,600 per calender month. That is however national average and in northern quarters such as the north west it is probably more like £1,250 per calender month (£18k equivalent).

To ask someone for 20% of their monthly income for an evening of disco entertainment is about right in my view.


But they'll spend more than their months wage on a dress, up to 50% of it on a cake, 40% on a dance floor, or to hire a block of toilets or a heater for a marquee.. I could go on...

Difference being all these services are genrally run as proper businesses and so they're charged at a level to make a decent enough wage without having another job.

[NKR]

But the other 80% still comes off what you take home!



But those two days could easily equate to 24 hours working time when you include travelling, setup etc. plus the prep time for each gig and other time spent running the business.



But they'll spend more than their months wage on a dress, up to 50% of it on a cake, 40% on a dance floor, or to hire a block of toilets or a heater for a marquee.. I could go on...

Difference being all these services are genrally run as proper businesses and so they're charged at a level to make a decent enough wage without having another job.

As a 40% tax payer I am saving double what most are then when we invest in kit.

I know the travelling. Nobody else in society travels to work. We should all go in and demand our hourly rate is increased to cover our travel time to work. That one is not a valid one. I am still trying to understand how prep for a DJ job can equate to the hours everyone claims to put in. I manage to do it on evenings when I get home from work and anything over 1 to maybe 1 and a half hours preping for something you do week in week out is baffling to me.

I think you find the hours of skill put into wedding dresses is probably a big part of the cost.
This goes back to the point I keep trying to make, but gets ignored. The DJ industry is ultimately accessible, so competition is greater, which creates greater supply to service the limited demand. Thats is what drives the price.

I price according to the market place I operate in and thats life. I am well within my rights to operate in this way as is everyone else who does not meet the model of £400 plus per gig (so long as they are above board and legal)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I would not make it my main source of income as two days paying work opportunities is just not viable as a full time occupation for me. I

And yet you feel you can comment on how £250 is a reasonable amount to earn in a night?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

As a 40% tax payer

What this comes down to then, is that you earn plenty with your day job and can afford to earn £250 a night and think it is reasonable.

If you weren't a 40% tax payer, you might think differently.

[NKR]

And yet you feel you can comment on how £250 is a reasonable amount to earn in a night?

As a very well established DJ providing an excellent service to happy customers and its my business (IE out there doing it nearly every weekend).

I am well within my rights to comment on what is a reasonable amount to earn in a night.

You seem to feel you can comment that I am not suited to choose my own level of remittence.

[NKR]

What this comes down to then, is that you earn plenty with your day job and can afford to earn £250 a night and think it is reasonable.

If you weren't a 40% tax payer, you might think differently.

I can think its reasonable for all the reasons I have already stated.

I can be working 7 days a week Darren when you take account that my Fridays are from 7:00am to 2:00am Saturday morning. That is why I am a top rate tax payer, I am putting the hours in big time. That is my choice and I am free to make it.

We can go round in circles al night and my opinion I am entitled to.

However, as I have stated many times on here. The DJ price opens the door, the additional services of singer DJ, singer during the wedding breakfast and ceremony sell themselves and we do very few DJ jobs. We still do them at those prices if we can't upsell, but 7 to 8 times out of 10 we are getting out for more.

That is my business model. Sorry if it does not suit everyone, but it suits me.

Poor old disco pants and his working mens clubs in Barnsley has a market too. I like Martin and I do hope to get over and see one of his gigs sometime as I think it would be fun in an outdated 70's kind of way, but still good old fashioned fun. He does alright on his £120 to £150 a gig and even has a van now. His choice to work that way and its alright by me.

Darren - I earn less per day in my day job (gross before tax and NI) than a nights DJ fee. So yes it is reasonable to me.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Whatever.

Ultimately though, you think £250 is reasonable 'cos you can afford to charge that 'cos you earn a fair bit from your day job.

That is what it boils down to.

At this point, I could say "This is my opinion and I am entitled to it.", but that has been rather overused on this thread.

(By the way, I have never said you couldn't have your opinion on anything, so I'm not sure why you keep posting that and also about your choices - we all know people have choices, so why keep telling us?)

[NKR]

Whatever.

Ultimately though, you think £250 is reasonable 'cos you can afford to charge that 'cos you earn a fair bit from your day job.

That is what it boils down to.

At this point, I could say "This is my opinion and I am entitled to it.", but that has been rather overused on this thread.

(By the way, I have never said you couldn't have your opinion on anything, so I'm not sure why you keep posting that and also about your choices - we all know people have choices, so why keep telling us?)

I earn less per day in my day job, which took me 7 years of training to even be able to do. So no its not because I earn a fair bit in my day job.
Its reasonable because I get more per day for playing music than I get as a qualified professional. That's why its reasonable.

Quote Darren - "And yet you feel you can comment on how £250 is a reasonable amount to earn in a night?" Sorry is that questioning someones right to that opinion. It does have the connotation in there somewhere.

No you haven't said I can't have my opinion you wrapped it up in a pseudo question which said as much. Hence me restating it as an opinion I am entitled to

[Danno13]

I think what this comes down to is having a reasonable grasps of the expenses involved, which from my experience on forums, generally only people actually depending on DJing (and related services) for a living seem to understand.

Given your example earlier of 100 gigs at £250 each, at a 60% margin (pretty good for self-employed) that's £15k before Tax - I can think of a lot easier jobs to do that will earn you that!

[katman]

I think a lot of this discussion can be skewed by what part of the country you are in and how affluent or otherwise the area is.

I am almost ready to go back on the road, just got a few more things to finish but I was talking to someone the other week who runs websites for several local hotels. I mentioned that I was returning to DJing and he said to give him a call because the ----------- paid £120 per night.

Just worked out what my gross salary is per day is and it comes to £88 so £250 for an evenings work sounds pretty good to me and some of the amounts that I have seen posted for a nights work just seem astronomical.

If my house was to be relocated to a different part of the country it would cost 5 or 6 times its current value, possibly even more.

I dont think there will ever be total agreement on what should be "the going rate" whilst there is such disparity between different geographical areas.

Its actually more difficult for the guys in the poorer areas because the overheads become a much greater percentage of their turnover. Basic Equipment, Vehicle and fuel costs are more or less the same across the whole country.

The same applies to our customers. Basic living expenses eat a greater percentage of peoples income in poorer areas meaning they have less disposable income to pay for a disco in the first place.

Im sure everyone would love to go out for a minimum of £400 per night but the reality is that for many of us that isnt going to happen especially when there are lots of Sixty Quid Sids around who if his day job (assuming he has one) is minimum wage, sees £60 for an evenings work as a lot better than £48.68 for an 8 hour day.

[Danno13]

I think a lot of this discussion can be skewed by what part of the country you are in and how affluent or otherwise the area is.


ARGRGRRGRGRRGHRGHRHGRGHRHGR :bang: :bang: :bang:

As if there weren't enough cliches in this thread.... must be a hell of a commute everytime you need a solicitor, doctor, teacher etc. as there are obviously no high earners within a reasonable travelling distance for a DJ (around 20-30 miles) from you....



Just worked out what my gross salary is per day is and it comes to £88 so £250 for an evenings work sounds pretty good to me and some of the amounts that I have seen posted for a nights work just seem astronomical.

That's not a fair comparison. If you could work out what your employer budgets per hour to keep you in a job, or knew what your margins were on your own business, then that would be a realistic comparison. I pay round £40 per hour for work on my van when I take it to the garage, how much of that do you think the mechanic sees?

[Corabar Entertainment]

Putting actual figures aside, I am truly amazed at the lack of people's understanding of 'earnings' on this thread. If everyone was 'earning' £250 a night, I'm sure that there would be a lot less disagreement about pricing!

The crux of the matter that I can see is that hobbyists do not consider most expenses as such, whereas the business-minded part-timers and the full-timers do.

I'm also amazed at how little time people spend on their business.

[Corabar Steve]

Just worked out what my gross salary is per day is and it comes to £88 so £250 for an evenings work sounds pretty good to .
But it's not just "an evening's work" :bang:

Even just a 4 hour gig can ammount to 8 hours, once you factor in loading, unloading, set up, take down, & travel. I haven't even gone into admin & paperwork etc....

[djtrev]

Oh bugger.
While I have been chewing the cud with you guys I have lost a job because someone undercut me with silly money.lol

[Danno13]

Oh bugger.
While I have been chewing the cud with you guys I have lost a job because someone undercut me with silly money.lol

So obviously we should all just try to be the cheapest. Why didn't I think of that!

No wonder I can't be arsed with trying to convince people to pay decent money for a DJ anymore...

[djtrev]

So obviously we should all just try to be the cheapest. Why didn't I think of that!

No wonder I can't be arsed with trying to convince people to pay decent money for a DJ anymore...

Danno that was slightly tongue in cheek.
I set my price,they found someone else at a price they were happy with,I am not going to let it worry me,thry obviously weren't my customers.