Predicament

[Charlie Brown]

I took on a children's party booking three weeks ago.

I didn't take a deposit because it was short notice. I have been trying to get in touch with the organiser now for a couple of days. I've called on numerous occasions and left several text messages. I've also emailed her. Admittedly, this was left to the last minute (Friday afternoon) because she only booked several weeks ago and I wanted to confirm everything was okay for this afternoon. I've heard nothing.

I've rang the hotel who have confirmed that there is a children's party taking place. They don't have ANY contact details to hand and normally the customer has to inform them with the DJs details - which she hasn't done.

I reckon she has booked a cheaper DJ elsewhere. I've informed the hotel that I won't be setting off (40 minute drive) until I receive confirmation.

What would you do? This shows the importance of contracts an deposits and it's the first time I've ignored my usual booking procedure.

Help! :)

[Mark Wild]

I'd be there and three weeks is plenty timeto get a booking fee and paper work sorted imo.

[surround sounds]

I'd be there and three weeks is plenty timeto get a booking fee and paper work sorted imo.

Yes agree with Mark

[Stu]

I'd still go to do the gig as normal. Worst case scenario you have wasted an hour and a half and £20 in fuel. Put it down to experience and stick to your normal booking procedure in the future.

If you don't show; worst case scenario the organiser tells all of her friends to never book charlies disco as they are a cowboy outfit and wont show up. Goodbye reputation.

[Charlie Brown]

I know it is. I should have got a contract signed. Should I load the car and go? It stats at 3.00pm? The events lady at the hotel said she understands my predicament and wouldnt turn up either. I might wait till two when the organisers are due to arrive to start setting up:

[Booche]

I agree with Mark, id be loading up and getting there, same as mentioned if your not needed its not a huge loss really is it ?

[Stu]

The lady at the hotel doesn't have a reputation to protect. The hotel is there ready and waiting for the party.

I really would urge you to get going bud!

[Charlie Brown]

I'll go and load the car.

If it was my kid, I'd be ringing the DJ/entertainer days ago to confirm everything. It's just odd how I've heard nothing since the 14th Septemer. Not one text.

[Booche]

I'll go and load the car.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Charlie Brown]

Still nothing.

She should be setting up the room now. If I was in her position and knew I hadn't made contact with the entertainment, I'd be ringing me like mad asking where I was.

I also told the receptionist to call me if when they arrive.

[Booche]

Still nothing.

She should be setting up the room now. If I was in her position and knew I hadn't made contact with the entertainment, I'd be ringing me like mad asking where I was.

I also told the receptionist to call me if when they arrive.

Thought you was going to load the car up and go there ?

[Charlie Brown]

Well she hasn't phoned, the hotel haven't phoned and I have left her a voicemail, text and email explaining I won't be setting off from Nottingham until I receive confirmation.

The hotel said they would phone as soon as they turn up at 2.00. I'm wondering whether something drastic has happened and the whole thing is cancelled.

[hammy]

Surely the hotel would have said if they cancelled, If they still aint there now then maybe go sunbathing in this gorgeous heat ;)

[Charlie Brown]

15 minutes till the party starts. Absoultly nothing. It's making me feel ill.

[TonyB]

Charlie, I would do the same as you have done. Put the onus on the client to let you know if your services are required or not. If they don't have the manners to let you know, then thats their problem. It may be harsh but at the end of the day you are running a business and you can't afford to be messed around by people who don't have the decency to return phone calls.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

^^ Agreed.

[Charlie Brown]

I've heard nothing.

I've just phoned the hotl again. They have THREE weddings on today and this kids party. The receptionist thinks they are here because she can see people setting up on the CCTV. Unfortunately the cameras don't point to where the DJ would setup. She isn't allowed to leave her desk to discover what is going on and nobody else can help because it's on the other side of the hotel. I've asked to speak to the manager who isn't in.

She has heard nothing from the client and presumes somebody else has got the job. She has my contact details should anything change.

What would have happened if I did turn up to discover another DJ there? Why the hell didn't she phone?

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I would of gone because you have chosen not to take a booking fee. Of course I would of had a contract in place to avoid situations like this.

[Excalibur]

Charlie, I would do the same as you have done. Put the onus on the client to let you know if your services are required or not. If they don't have the manners to let you know, then thats their problem. It may be harsh but at the end of the day you are running a business and you can't afford to be messed around by people who don't have the decency to return phone calls.

Sorry to sound a discordant note, but Charlie was booked to do the gig, and hasn't actually been cancelled. We may assume that he isn't needed, but we don't know he isn't. On that basis, I'd have loaded the van, and wandered along. Better safe than sorry.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Sorry to sound a discordant note, but Charlie was booked to do the gig, and hasn't actually been cancelled.

Sorry, but that is not correct.

He has no paperwork, no return phone call and no confirmation, therefore he is not booked to do the gig at all.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Exactly!
No booking form (as said over and over again on here) means no booking. Ok, you can decide not to take a booking fee and all that but I would still want a booking form signed to confirm the gig. If it's not with me at least 14 days before the gig, I don't go. I wouldn't have even contemplated loading up and going if phonecalls, emails and texts had not been replied to.

[Excalibur]

Sorry, but that is not correct.

He has no paperwork, no return phone call and no confirmation, therefore he is not booked to do the gig at all.

While a verbal contract is not worth the paper it's written on, a Gentleman's word is his bond.

[Mark Wild]

Both parties are as bad as eachother, resulting in this horrible mess.

[Excalibur]

Both parties are as bad as each other, resulting in this horrible mess.

Not disputed, and as Charlie didn't stipulate the need for a contract, the lack of a booking form has no relevance to the discussion.

[TonyB]

It doesn't take a minute to send a text or return a phone call. Charlie has done everything he could to try and get a confirmation if his services were required or not. If you ask the question "let me know if my services are required" and they don't reply, you can only assume that they are not.

[Shaun]

In the situation described I think Charlie has done everything he could to confirm the booking. In the same situation I wouldn't have made the trip either.

Lesson learned though Charlie. Always work with a booking confirmation in writing and save yourself a similar headache down the line.

[Mark Wild]

It doesn't take a minute to send a text or return a phone call. Charlie has done everything he could to try and get a confirmation if his services were required or not. If you ask the question "let me know if my services are required" and they don't reply, you can only assume that they are not.

He didn't send out any confirmation documents for the customer to return I don't think mate.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Exactly (again!).
How far do you keep pushing it before you think "Right, that's it, I give up"?.
If someone can't be bothered to get back to you which is common courtesy, then to be blunt....sod them!
Use it as a learning curve Charlie. Make sure in future that you always have booking forms and stipulate when they need to be returned. This will cover you.

I had an enquiry a while back for a wedding. I sent booking forms etc after the customer confirmed they wanted to go ahead and didn't receive anything back. No booking form, no booking fee so in my eyes....no booking.
After a few weeks of not receiving anything back and no reply to my emails, I wrote the enquiry off. I did however, check with the venue to see if there was a booking in the customers name...yes, everything was fine. I took it that they had probably sourced their Disco Entertainment elsewhere which I think most people would've done.

I had another enquiry for the same date which got confirmed. Forms and booking fee returned within a week and all was well. I then received a call from the venue of the previous enquiry during the week of the wedding to say that the customer was worried because they hadn't heard from me!!!

Just like Charlie....I panicked in all honesty but at the end of the day, I didn't have anything to confirm the booking and by then, if there was a booking, the balance should have been paid. I had nothing with a signature on and nothing to confirm the date either. I had to call the customer (who for some strange reason answered the phone straight away this time), to tell them the score and that I had no booking with them. This was the week of their wedding.

My name is probably dirt in their minds but it should'nt be should it? It may sound harsh but I concentrated on the wedding I did in the end and did'nt think about the original enquiry at all.

What I am saying Charlie is....Don't be feeling ill about it. Don't even give it a second's thought. If the customer wanted you, they would have answered your calls, emails and texts. Yes, some of us do feel bad about it and will sit there and wonder if that phone is going to ring with them asking where you are but I guess that's natural. Until you have something that they have signed etc to say it's going ahead....it doesn't even exist and they should'nt even be on your mind.

Their loss!

[TonyB]

He didn't send out any confirmation documents for the customer to return I don't think mate.

I'm not saying that he did, but in the circumstances he has made every effort to try and contact the client.

[Mark Wild]

What happened young Charles?

[Excalibur]

I've heard nothing.
Neither have we.We're on tenterhooks, waiting for the next gripping instalment of " Charlie Brown, Mobile DJ". ( That'll be a big :whoosh: for our younger readers. )




What would have happened if I did turn up to discover another DJ there?
You'd have held the moral high ground, you'd have known that the party had a DJ, and you could have asked the customer face to face why the lask of common courtesy.


Why the hell didn't she phone?
Why did she think she needed to? She hasn't cancelled, so in her mind you'll be there to honour the verbal contract. (Devil's Advocate mode may have been engaged there, make your own minds up. )

She may not have phoned because she had sourced a far cheaper supplier, and is embarrassed to ring Charlie and tell him she's gone for the budget option, instead of the Posh one.

Come on Charlie, we need to know. Did the party go ahead? Did it have a Disco? :confused:

[Charlie Brown]

I'm lying on the sofa and the party is due to finish in 20 minutes and I still haven't heard anything.

I'd ofo bet my life it was a confirmed booking because of the text she sent me three weeks ago with all the details.

Very bizarre.

[chrisj]

Charlie I am with you on this one. If they don't have the courtesy to return your all or text you I see no reason why you should have gone to the venue. I would not have gone.
I would have left a message or text saying that unless I received a return call or text confirmation I would not arrive.
I always use a contract and if the client copy is not returned within 14 days it becomes void. I do try to contact the client if it is not received as they sometimes have a genuine reason for not returning contract on time, such as holidays.

[Andy Goodtimes]

And to think you had a go at me for being a bit relaxed about the way I deal with a hotel who give me thousands of pounds of work per year?

Thing is you shouldn't be in this situation to start with but you are and that's that. You have a text with all the details. Did you agree to talk to the client again a few days prior to confirm that all the details are the same as at time of booking or did you just agree to see her on the day?

Maybe the client is one of these that uses her mobile for all her emails and calls and texts, maybe she also uses it to store all her contacts and memo notes too, maybe she has been pestered by an x lover so changed her number or maybe it dropped into the sink when she was washing up and maybe she didn't think she needed to contact you because as far as she was concerned it was a done deal and you were a gentelman of your word.

Strange hotel too if the receptionist can't get on the phone or radio to one of the ops team to see what is going on...what does she do when she needs to leave her post to powder her nose.

Chances are they got someone cheaper or booked a magician instead of a DJ or someone might have offered to take an IPod and a speaker system or whatever but at the end of the day there might have been some kids let down.

[Mark Wild]

Alls well that ends well....

[CRAZY K]

Charlie I am with you on this one. If they don't have the courtesy to return your all or text you I see no reason why you should have gone to the venue. I would not have gone.
I would have left a message or text saying that unless I received a return call or text confirmation I would not arrive.
I always use a contract and if the client copy is not returned within 14 days it becomes void. I do try to contact the client if it is not received as they sometimes have a genuine reason for not returning contract on time, such as holidays.

Strangely we have a similar problem where my wifes agency has taken a booking verbally 3 -4 weeks ago and not received a deposit or Contract, the gig is next Saturday and we cannot raise a response by email or mobile phone.

Our booking email states we need everything back in 7 days.

A text will go tomorrow as well as a mobile phone message and email (customer never answers mobile and did not offer a Landline which on reflection might be suspicious) so looks like they got someone cheaper and did not have the guts to tell us.

Thats twice recently, no more MR Nice Guy from now on;)

[Jason]

I was in a similar position a few weeks ago - client called a few months previous, wanted to haggle on price. Decided to book (verbally), I quoted via email and provided full details required to book.

Nothing back, no contact, not replying to emails/phone messages/text.

In the end, 1 week before the party date, I simply sent a text and email, explaining I would not be attending, but if she would like to book to get in touch asap.

I didn't hear anything back, so only assumed she's decided to find someone cheaper (this was a £150 kids party)
I didn't lose sleep over it, but did want to make it crystal clear that I was not booked, but was able to accomodate the booking if she made contact (I provide landline, mobile and email addresses in my email sig.. so no excuse).

That said, I recently took a wedding at very short notice (10 days) - and got signed docs, full balance and a consultation with the couple.
This is possible - bank transfers take at worse a few days, but are often instant.
1st class post may also take a few days, so turning around a booking in 7 days is certainly possible.

[Andy Goodtimes]

Kids parties should always be handled with extra Caution.

They are generally shorter and cheaper and often last minute or at least shorter notice and therefore the temptation is not to follow all the usual procedures.

Parents like to do the best for their kids so as not to disappoint them and they often commit and then realise its all working out to much over what they originally thought or more than they can afford.

I take kids parties seriously as they often lead to lots more work and at the end of the day they are usually nice little earners at times when you would normally not be out doing proper grown up jobs anyway. I often get an enquiry for a kids party say from 4-6 and I talk them into having 3-5 so I have time to go off elsewhere afterwards. Also, because of the lower prices of kids parties its rare to go out of area for them so its easy to call on the clients and collect deposits and get contracts signed...done that a few times.

[Excalibur]

I'd of bet my life it was a confirmed booking because of the text she sent me three weeks ago with all the details.

And now we hear the creaking , as the Goalposts are uprooted, and make their way across nearer to where I've been standing all along.



Chances are they got someone cheaper or booked a magician instead of a DJ or someone might have offered to take an IPod and a speaker system or whatever but at the end of the day there might have been some kids let down.

The one thing I'm sure we all try to avoid at all costs, surely. :confused:
Andy, in this case, I have to say I agree with almost every word of your post.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Peter, start looking at this less emotionally.

I understand your sentiment, but you need to start looking at it from a logical business point of view.

You turn up and the parent of the kid has made other arrangements, do you really think they will give a toss that you turned up?

I think not.

[Creature]

Sorry Charlie - you are in the wrong here !

You had a text with all the details and you should have turned up !

After all what if they were expecting you that poor kids party may have been ruined.

In the texts you may have added that If you turn up and find another dj booked you will charge them the booking fee, to cover yourself.

For someone who is often on there high horse about other peoples mistakes you should have known better in this case.

[Excalibur]

Peter, start looking at this less emotionally.

I understand your sentiment, but you need to start looking at it from a logical business point of view.

You turn up and the parent of the kid has made other arrangements, do you really think they will give a toss that you turned up?

I think not.

Which is a more acceptable scenario than nobody turns up. Isn't the risk of being labelled a no-show more damaging to a business than losing a fivers worth of diesel , and a half hour drive in the countryside? :confused:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Sorry creature, but what complete rubbish.

Read the thread.

No paperwork or return phone call or text and some of you people would still turn up?

Come on....

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Which is a more acceptable scenario than nobody turns up. Isn't the risk of being labelled a no-show more damaging to a business than losing a fivers worth of diesel , and a half hour drive in the countryside? :confused:

As I said Peter, start looking at it less emotionally.

Forget the fact that its a kids party, if it was any other booking, would people do the same for possibly no reward?

I am surprised and shocked at the lack of business acumen on here.

[Booche]

Sorry to disagree but as mentioned wouldn't Charlie look better and more professional actually turning up and proving he had the booking's intentions in interest ?

I can see were others are coming from about no form no booking etc to which i also agree lol

Damn im kinda sat on the wall on this issue as yes i would have turned up BUT looking at it from the other view i also agree lol

I think personally i would have bit the bullet turned up and just showed that even without a booking form as it was a late booking that like i say the best intentions would have been for the client.

[Andy Goodtimes]

Hang on Daren...its pretty obvious that we don't know the full situation here and also remember the public perception of DJs, a lot of people think we are all cowboys and they are surprised to find that we use contracts and take deposits etc.

It might well be that this woman just expected that a phone call followed by a text was the end of her booking process and that Charlie would be there come hell or high water and if she did have some issue with her mobile phone then maybe she didn't realise that Charlie was actually trying to contact her. We need to know what was said at the time of booking because if Charlie just said thanks for the booking and he would see her on the day at the hotel then why should she get in touch with him.

And...you know as well as me that a hotel big enough and busy enough to hoast 3 Weddings and a kids party on a Sunday afternoon will have some kind of provision for the receptionist to find out what is going on in the building.

[Excalibur]

As I said Peter, start looking at it less emotionally.

Forget the fact that its a kids party, if it was any other booking, would people do the same for possibly no reward?

I am surprised and shocked at the lack of business acumen on here.

And I am neither surprised nor shocked at the premise that without a fully documented signed contract, a gig will not take place, but in some ways I am disappointed at such a rigid application of this attitude.

Each case must be taken on its merits, so the fact that it's a kids party is important, and with this one I'd have turned up. ( And not necessarily just to ensure the little darlings had a DJ. At times, I can have a somewhat warped sense of humour. )

PS. We still don't know if any DJ turned up. I'm struggling to cope with the suspense, it knocks "Who shot JR" for six. :D

[Andy Goodtimes]

I agree...As well as knowing the full history of this it would be nice to know how it all turned out.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I'm 110% in the 'Stay at home because there wasn't a booking in reality' corner. As Darren says, it's not great business acumen.

What no'one seems to have mentioned is the fact that surely, IF the customer was under the impression that they had a booking with Charlie and were completely innocent and had NOT booked another DJ and were NOT mucking Charlie about......Surely they would have been in contact at least 30 minutes before the start of the party wondering where the hell the DJ was??

I think we have to give customers some credit, even the thickest ones out there (probably wrong choice of word there), would realise that it would take time to set up a Disco and 30 minutes before my kids party with no sign of the DJ would set alarm bells ringing. I'd be on the phone straight away. As it stands, Charlie hasn't mentioned anyone getting in touch with him.

I personally think he did the right thing staying where he was.

IF the customer did call then I may have jumped to attention and loaded the van and got there in double quick time but I know I would not have been in that position in the first place because of the booking form scenario. The booking form (in my opinion) is the most important thing in all of this. If one existed in the first place and it was signed and returned (booking fee paid or waived), it would have all been cool.

I would have written the gig off if the booking form hadn't been returned within the times stated in the Terms & Conditions. If I was the customer, I would have checked at least a few days in advance that everything was still ok. Any problems or mis-communication would have had time then to be sorted out. Sitting there relaxing on a sunday with a beer and then getting a call from a customer who thinks that they have booked you when they haven't because they couldn't be bothered to get back to you for whatever reason wouldn't spoil that.

Sorry if others disagree but I think I'm in the majority. Spending time loading the van and spending money on diesel etc just to be on the safe side and turning up when the customer has already booked someone else (more than likely), may be airing on the side of caution but would be a complete waste of time. Fair do's if some people just want to be double sure and be there for if things go wrong but I think it's a waste of time. It's the booking form that is the centre of all of this.

Blimey, what we do? Do we sit there all day every day with all our gear loaded up just incase a customer somewhere gets let down?

[discomobiledj]

I know everyone is saying "no contract, no turn up" but was a contract sent in the first place?

[Charlie Brown]

I know everyone is saying "no contract, no turn up" but was a contract sent in the first place?

Nope.

I phoned the receptionist when the party finished and asked what had happened. She still didn't really know but nobody had mentioned anything to her.

If I was required, the organiser would have made a conscious effort to get back to me a few days before the party to double check everything was okay - she didn't.

She would/should have replied to my three texts, four calls and two emails - she didn't.

She would have called frantically an hour or so before the event when she realised I wasn't there. Also, she probably would have spoke to the receptionist and asked if anybody had turned up BUT she didn't.

Booking process - I told her I would email everything we had agreed, which I did. She emailed me back saying 'thank you'

I remember her saying, 'can I pay you a deposit because I don't want there not to be any music on the day' - I explained I didn't require one and was happy with cash on the day.

[funkymook]

I think this fell apart not from the lack of booking form/contract but the fact no deposit was taken.

Some people aren't as good as their word (written or spoken), but once they've handed over money you can bet they consider they have a booking.

Lesson learned Charlie, it's all very well being nice and trusting people but you will get messed around - no client will think any less of you if you insist on a signed contract and deposit for every booking.

Edit: just seen your texts.

I can't see anything but confirmation of address and times - I get that on nearly every enquiry, it doesn't constitute a booking in my mind.

And you really don't come across as very professional - it's more like chatting to a friend. No wonder it was easy for her to ignore you.

Also you've just published her mobile number and email and email address!!!

[Andy Goodtimes]

Charlie; please don't take this personal because its certainly not intended that way but you started this off with little information and gradually drip fed us so its hard to give an opinion.

Fair enough you returned an email saying all was well and cash on the day but in all fairness you started this thread long before the time you would have to have arrived in order to set-up so up until that time I don't see any problem except for the fact that you did what a lot of DJs do for a kids party...you relaxed your terms and conditions and dropped your usual systems and practices of working. Its the same old story...just a couple of hours, nice easy little job as kids are always ready to join in and the time will fly by, not a lot of money but its a nice little bit of ready cash, chance of picking up lots more work as all the kids will go away and tell their mums and dads that they want a party like little johny had and what the hell its a Sunday afternoon so what else would you be doing.

Kids parties are good, its the old saying "little apples are sweet", but you still have to take them just as seriously as a Wedding as along with engagements in my experience they are the shakiest type of bookings.

Forget the DJ point of view that is being stated on here...how about looking at it from the clients point of view?...Couple of weeks ago I booked a towbar fitter to come to my home, I rang him up and asked for a price and asked if he could do the detachable type so as not to upset the parking sensors, I then asked him if he could patch the car and wire it so the stability program and traction control would adapt acordingly when the trailer is on, we agreed the price and he said he would see me at a certain time on a certain day and I just left it at that, I never kept phoning him or texting or emailing him and sure enough he turned up as promised...as far as the public are concerned why should DJs be any different?

[Mark Wild]

You sent a text to a customer at 6.30 in the morning? wtf

[funkymook]

Client details removed from Charlies post.

(working from my iPhone so it took me a while to work out how to do it).

[Charlie Brown]

You sent a text to a customer at 6.30 in the morning? wtf

:lol:

No, my phone's times went :daft:

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Charlie, you shouldn't really post up stuff like that with customer details on. What it has done first of all is show your messages and I have to agree that they don't look very professional. This whole thing just stinks of amateurism and going by what you usually say and go about things, I would say that for the most part, you are not an amateur.

Saying that though - I think one of the reasons you have posted what you have is because you feel the need to prove to everyone that you have tried and made the effort. You've bent the truth in the past on quite a few occasions and maybe you don't want people to think that this is another one of those moments?

Why send someone a text message at 6.30am on a sunday morning? (doesn't really matter what day it is to be honest). Also, you started the thread 30 minutes after you sent your final text to the customer saying that you weren't leaving until you had heard from her....why start the thread if you had already made your mind up?

Maybe this should have been posted in the Supporters Section? You have listed the customers email address and mobile number on an open forum that everyone can see.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Images have been edited to delete tel no and email.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Charlie, you shouldn't really post up stuff like that with customer details on. What it has done first of all is show your messages and I have to agree that they don't look very professional. This whole thing just stinks of amateurism and going by what you usually say and go about things, I would say that for the most part, you are not an amateur.

Saying that though - I think one of the reasons you have posted what you have is because you feel the need to prove to everyone that you have tried and made the effort. You've bent the truth in the past on quite a few occasions and maybe you don't want people to think that this is another one of those moments?

Why send someone a text message at 6.30am on a sunday morning? (doesn't really matter what day it is to be honest). Also, you started the thread 30 minutes after you sent your final text to the customer saying that you weren't leaving until you had heard from her....why start the thread if you had already made your mind up?

Maybe this should have been posted in the Supporters Section? You have listed the customers email address and mobile number on an open forum that everyone can see.

Gary, if people were having digs at you like this, you wouldn't like it.

Have your opinion, but stop the little digs please.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I wasn't having a dig Darren and apologies to Charlie if he thinks that.
You're right, I wouldn't like it but I wouldn't be in the same position.
Again, apologies.

[Mark Wild]

:lol:

No, my phone's times went :daft:

Don't fib Charlie, that was you texting the customer just before you went to bed on Sunday morning, probably hoping to hell the didn't reply ;) Can't kid a kidder mate :)

[Charlie Brown]

Don't fib Charlie, that was you texting the customer just before you went to bed on Sunday morning, probably hoping to hell the didn't reply ;) Can't kid a kidder mate :)

Okay. :confused:

[djtrev]

Perhaps a final text to the client that the booking was cancelled and you would not be attending,giving your reasons and a phone call to the venue giving the same information would have covered yourself and might possibly have got a reaction from either the client or the venue who one would imagine would want to protect their customer reputation.


Okay. :confused:

Is that 'okay' as in yes you are right?

[Andy Goodtimes]

Charlie; if you're going to do the odd little job for a bit of cash in your back pocket then prob best to keep it to yourself.

I think it would be true to say that lots of the DJs on here will shy away from the average kids party because they are kids parties. Personally I do them but the reason I do them is that I love kids parties and being able to be a total clown and joining in with the kids, I see it as a chance to be myself and not having to watch my Ps and Qs at a posh Wedding or black tie do...its not just about the money, for me the job satisfaction is a big part. Its hard to get more than £200 for a kids party and hard to get them to return contracts and so on as there are so many DJs that'll do them for peanuts and lets be honest most DJs that have kids of their own know how to talk to kids and get them enjoying themselves.

[Ecstatic Events]

Don't fib Charlie, that was you texting the customer just before you went to bed on Sunday morning, probably hoping to hell the didn't reply ;) Can't kid a kidder mate :)

There's definitely food for thought there :)

I'm not sure what to believe so I won't comment any further. But I will say one thing, this scenario (if its the truth) surprises me given the amount of advice Charlie gives about professionalism and the times I've seen him question other people's business practises.

[Charlie Brown]

It is the first time I haven't sent any forms out - I won't be doing it again.

I'm the :muppet: out of all of this.

I've lost a £150 squid and let my man with a van down. Why would I want the gig not to happen?

[Kernow]

I think the moral of this whole sad affair must be a reflection on how impersonal and ,dare I say it lazy, communication has become in this technological age.

Certainly a text should never be accepted as a confirmation, especially one which merely contains details of the gig, that's an enquiry !. Also you have no way of checking if it originates from the stated source, a high-profile poster in this thread will be well aware of the prevalence of false leads ;).

I am surprised that this was not followed up in a more timely manner, and more concrete confirmation obtained, in whatever form.

At the end of the day Charlie it's yet another lesson learned from errors made, for which you alone will suffer and hopefully move on and not repeat. :beer1:

[Creature]

Sorry creature, but what complete rubbish.

Read the thread.

No paperwork or return phone call or text and some of you people would still turn up?

Come on....
_________________

Why i sthat ?

Yep and have done and have completed the booking and be paid for ! once I turned up and the bookie said sorry I had forgotten I had booked you, he paid me petrol money and i went home happy.

altho these are the exception to the rule these days as always a contract in place now.

Charlie like most kids today have been econimical with the facts here and dribbled them out almost grudgingly.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Charlie like most kids today have been econimical with the facts here

That's a charming statement to make.

So most kids are economical with the facts are they?

Some people need to get a grip on reality. Charlie should have sent a contract and taken a deposit, there's no disputing that.

The client did not confirm or reply to any communication, therefore it is not booked. End of story.

Why people would turn up to something that is not confirmed is beyond me. Also if I turned up and someone told me that they had forgotten to cancel me, they'd be getting charged.

If you can afford to go home with petrol money, then fair enough. I couldn't.

I will say it again - it is a business for me. I turn up when contracted and charge a fee if cancelled.

[Kernow]

The client did not confirm or reply to any communication, therefore it is not booked. End of story.

Thank god for that !!, I'm pretty sure the forum could not sustain a 7+ page thread for every unconverted enquiry ? ;)

[Creature]

That's a charming statement to make.

but fact - just look at his posts


So most kids are economical with the facts are they?

Ok maybe a generalization here but in my experience you have to drag the full facts out of most yongsters today.


Some people need to get a grip on reality. Charlie should have sent a contract and taken a deposit, there's no disputing that.

dont think anyone on here is disputing that fact not even me.


If you can afford to go home with petrol money, then fair enough. I couldn't.

Nor can I - but re read this post charlie gives the impression that he is booked !


it is a business for me

And it is how I make my living as well.

Charlie has poste don here as tho he was really worried bout this booking - he sounded desperate that no contact had been made.

As no contact a quick visit altho inconvienient would have put his mind at ease and this thread need not be here !

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

And it is how I make my living as well.



But you said that someone forgot to cancel you and you went home with petrol money and were happy. I wouldn't be.

As for your statement about dragging full facts out of kids, I think quite the opposite - there are plenty more 'adults' on here who regularly post stuff that is a load of made up nonsense. The difference is, Charlie is very naive by putting these things on the forum where people can stick the knife in as soon as they can.

[Javlingames]

Does post number 51 from charlie not confirm the booking (in text message)which they have already spoken about??

Therefore a booking exists, just because the client didnt respond to any texts doesnt remove charlie from the booking. She could be on holiday, broken phone etc. In her eyes it was booked and didnt need confirming, as someone said earlier, when you hire a tradesman to do a job on a certain date, it is confirmed there and then, no need for constant communication.

Im not a judge but looking at it from a legal stance, if charlie did not turn up when there appears to be a confirmation that his services are requiried he could possibly be sued??

[funkymook]

Does post number 51 from charlie not confirm the booking (in text message)which they have already spoken about??

Therefore a booking exists, just because the client didnt respond to any texts doesnt remove charlie from the booking. She could be on holiday, broken phone etc. In her eyes it was booked and didnt need confirming, as someone said earlier, when you hire a tradesman to do a job on a certain date, it is confirmed there and then, no need for constant communication.

Im not a judge but looking at it from a legal stance, if charlie did not turn up when there appears to be a confirmation that his services are requiried he could possibly be sued??

Going by what we can see I'd say no - I can't see any comment from the client saying she's accepted anything. In fact the 'Look forward to hearing from you' and the advising of the email address indicates this was very much at the enquiry stage.

[Javlingames]

The text COULD be seen as a confirmation to some, she is telling charlie she will be there an hour before to set the room up (in other words, i will be there to let you in to set your gear up), she is giving him the times and the full venue address. She has also verbally agreed to hire charlie.

Charlie SHOULD be in a position to charge her a cancellation fee as it seems she has verbally booked him and even text him with all the details charlie would need, times, address etc. But as he hasnt issued paperwork he may struggle on that one!!

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Darren, it is also a business for me and I totally agree with you on that.

I don't agree that some people want to stick the knife in to Charlie. I guess I am one of those "some people". For the record, I have nothing against Charlie whatsoever, however...he gives the people of this forum enough ammunition at times whether it's a statement or a wind up etc..

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Darren, it is also a business for me and I totally agree with you on that.

I don't agree that some people want to stick the knife in to Charlie. I guess I am one of those "some people". For the record, I have nothing against Charlie whatsoever, however...he gives the people of this forum enough ammunition at times whether it's a statement or a wind up etc..

Yes, but as I said earlier Gary, if people were making comments in the same way (not necessarily the same subject) to you, then you'd be pretty upset.

Charlie is naive and posts a lot of things on here that he probably shouldn't. Everyone has issues like this at some point and no-one is perfect either. The difference is, most of us don't post our issues on here.

Every time Charlie posts about something, be it a small mistake or a larger issue, there are always people waiting, just to say "I told you so" or "You're too young to know what you are doing"

I know this for a fact as I sit and read and moderate the forum every day. I know what people are about.

[DazzyD]

I'm not going to get in to the whole "you should have done this..." argument as I think, by now, Charlie will know what he should and shouldn't have done! ;)

If it was me, I would have taken the verbal agreement and the text as confirmation of booking and I would have turned up. From the info we have, albeit quite sketchy, the client hasn't cancelled so I would have proceeded with the booking as planned.

I've never let anyone down in the 12 years I've been doing my current role and I've built a reputation based on reliability to the point that some venues recommend me when their clients have been let down by their DJs meaning I often get last minute calls to cover gigs (and, most of the time, I'm already booked and I can't be in two places at once!)

[Shakermaker Promotions]

This is just going to go round in circles now.
I've never let anyone down ever either. Everyone goes on about 'Good Practice' on the forum and part of that should be that a booking form confirms a booking. Ok, everyone has their own way of working and all that but it should be, in my opinion....standard practice and the way we should all work and then that might get the way we do things across to the public eventually.

If some people have time and money to waste turning up to a gig that is not confirmed then that's up to them. I certainly wouldn't do it. Imagine making the journey only to see someone else already there.

[discomobiledj]

If some people have time and money to waste turning up to a gig that is not confirmed then that's up to them. I certainly wouldn't do it. Imagine making the journey only to see someone else already there.

This is the issue though, a contract was never sent, therefore the client couldn't return it. No one knows if the client had a problem with their phone.

I'm sure a few lessons have been learnt in this thread for some people.

[Charlie Brown]

And she didn't have access to her emails?

She couldn't find my number (again) from the internet to give me a call?

[discomobiledj]

Never had a scatty client?

[Charlie Brown]

Never had a scatty client?

Not to this extent!

[discomobiledj]

You've been very lucky then!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

You've been very lucky then!

In your opinion.

In my opinion, he did his utmost to try and sort the situation out and get hold of the client.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

This is the issue though, a contract was never sent, therefore the client couldn't return it. No one knows if the client had a problem with their phone.

I'm sure a few lessons have been learnt in this thread for some people.

Yes all well and good but it was Charlies idea to not produce a contract or a deposit so I don't see how you can use that argument.

I have to say Charlie the whole idea of being on this forum is to promote best practice and considering how long you have been on here I find slightly disappointing such a basic thing as using contracts has been overlooked here and caused this whole situation.

[Mark Wild]

I have to say Charlie the whole idea of being on this forum is to promote best practice and considering how long you have been on here I find slightly disappointing such a basic thing as using contracts has been overlooked here and caused this whole situation.

I agree, you can't blame your age for silly mistakes forever you know ;) You're an adult now and all this 'I'm young and naive' stuff all the time doesn't really cut it with me any more, it just reads as a poor excuse.

[discomobiledj]

Yes all well and good but it was Charlies idea to not produce a contract or a deposit so I don't see how you can use that argument.

I have to say Charlie the whole idea of being on this forum is to promote best practice and considering how long you have been on here I find slightly disappointing such a basic thing as using contracts has been overlooked here and caused this whole situation.

Which one?

I'm just saying that if the contract doesn't get sent out then the client can't return it, therefore does the booking exist?

If it does then there is the possibility that someone might not get the DJ they asked for and thought they were getting due to the failure from the business.

Should the DJ not turn up then they are opening themselves up to all sorts of problems.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Which one?

I'm just saying that if the contract doesn't get sent out then the client can't return it, therefore does the booking exist?

If it does then there is the possibility that someone might not get the DJ they asked for and thought they were getting due to the failure from the business.

Should the DJ not turn up then they are opening themselves up to all sorts of problems.

Yes but the contract doesn't exist because of Charlies choosing. Everyone here knows the most people book in their lifetime at most 2 discos in their lifetime (some have never booked one before). Therefore they don't know how to book, what to expect etc....

I am moving away from offering young children events now but when I did I would say 50% of clients mentioned without prompt about their poor experiences with other entertainment be it another parents DJ didn't show or similar. The contract is a piece of mind for the client as much as it protection for our services.

[funkymook]

Last word should go to Charlie on this


This shows the importance of contracts an deposits and it's the first time I've ignored my usual booking procedure.


as he said in his first post!

Personally I don't think any more needs to be added.

[discomobiledj]

Yes but the contract doesn't exist because of Charlies choosing. Everyone here knows the most people book in their lifetime at most 2 discos in their lifetime (some have never booked one before). Therefore they don't know how to book, what to expect etc....

I am moving away from offering young children events now but when I did I would say 50% of clients mentioned without prompt about their poor experiences with other entertainment be it another parents DJ didn't show or similar. The contract is a piece of mind for the client as much as it protection for our services.

Couldn't agree more :eek: :D

I will only do kids parties for people that I know. It's not worth the hassle.

[Andy Collins]

having spent the last 20 minutes reading the entire thread, there are lessons to be learnt here if nothing else.

Arguing whether Charlie was right or wrong remains personal perception

One things for sure - nothing was signed there is no agreement to fulfil.

Some things could have been handled differently, but that’s the benefit of hindsight - it’s easy for us to criticise not being in the same predicament.

Lesson learned always insist on a contract no matter of the time frame. I'm sure Charlie and others who have read this will not make the same mistake again.

[Corabar Entertainment]

One things for sure - nothing was signed there is no agreement.Unfortunately, the law isn't as simple as that, so that isn't as cut and dried as you suggest.

Just because there wasn't a physical document called a contract or agreement or whatever, doesn't mean that there isn't a legally binding agreement in place, and, IMO, that's where the difference of opinion lies in this thread - ie whether a contract for services was created, or whether it was simply an enquiry.

I am not going to even venture an opinion on whether or not there was a contract for services in place as a result of the communications between the parties, because it is clear that we do not have all all the correspondence / communications before us.

All I will say is that, if there was an agreement, Charlie should have gone - regardless of whether or not he could get hold of the client, and breached that agreement by not turning up. If there was no agreement, then he was right not to go.

[Cowlinn]

If I was charlie I would have gone, as the potential loss was too great.

What IF the client was expecting you to turn up? That'd be goodbye to your reputation.

It may be a different story for some of the older members with mortgages, families etc. But in Charlie's current position I would have gone, just to be safe.

[Charlie Brown]

Why would I waste my time and fuel money?

The fact that she still hasn't got in touch complaining/moaning/asking where I was, confirms everything IMO.

[Andy Collins]

There is no unless you have a signed contract, phone recording or confirmation email then there simply is no binding agreement. Simply saying over the phone "yes I'll do it" is not a binding agreement. It is a gentlemans agreement which in court is called "hearsay" courts will not entertain hear say only evidence.

In an ideal boring world nobody would make a mistake. But this is the real world and we as humans learn by making them.

On the basis of what we have been told on the thread, agree with Charlie. He did everything he could to confirm the gig.

Although I would have gone, I fully understand why he didn't. As it turns out he was right. Sometimes you have to trust your gut feeling.

[Cowlinn]

Why would I waste my time and fuel money?

The fact that she still hasn't got in touch complaining/moaning/asking where I was, confirms everything IMO.

You may have been right, but you didn't know that at the time. The risk would have been far too large for me.

[hammy]

Oh well I guess whats done is done, Tomorrow is another day :)

[Charlie Brown]

You may have been right, but you didn't know that at the time. The risk would have been far too large for me.

And she didn't think to call at 2.30pm when we agreed I would setup at 2.00pm?

[BeerFunk]

Going on my past experience, a verbal agreement is as good as any, and it stands until it is cancelled. Yes, sometimes you'll lose time and money, but you will always be in the right.

As for business sense, OK, Darren is right - it does make more sense not to travel if the booking wasn't confirmed.

However, if you were using this business sense, the situation would have never arisen in the first place.


Why would I waste my time and fuel money?

The fact that she still hasn't got in touch complaining/moaning/asking where I was, confirms everything IMO.Hindsight is a wonderful thing! It either proves your instincts and judgement were right, or it proves you got lucky. Maybe a bit of both? :)


Oh well I guess whats done is done, Tomorrow is another day :)Well not quite... it's only 'done' if you've learned from your experience (and that can mean you learned that you were right, or that you were wrong) :)

[ppentertainments]

The main point to be aware of here is that a text can be classed as a legal document in the same way as a written agreement or E-mail.

My other query is why on earth start this thread in the first place when you had no intention of going anyway :confused: :confused: Not exactly a great way to improve your reputation.

[Excalibur]

Imagine making the journey only to see someone else already there.
And conversely, imagine the faces of the audience when no disco at all shows up.


In my opinion, he did his utmost to try and sort the situation out and get hold of the client.
Agreed wholeheartedly.


All I will say is that, if there was an agreement, Charlie should have gone - regardless of whether or not he could get hold of the client, and breached that agreement by not turning up. If there was no agreement, then he was right not to go.
Amen to every word.

[Cowlinn]

Going on my past experience, a verbal agreement is as good as any, and it stands until it is cancelled. Yes, sometimes you'll lose time and money, but you will always be in the right.

As for business sense, OK, Darren is right - it does make more sense not to travel if the booking wasn't confirmed.

However, if you were using this business sense, the situation would have never arisen in the first place.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing! It either proves your instincts and judgement were right, or it proves you got lucky. Maybe a bit of both? :)

Well not quite... it's only 'done' if you've learned from your experience (and that can mean you learned that you were right, or that you were wrong) :)

Agree with all of that.

[CRAZY K]

The main point to be aware of here is that a text can be classed as a legal document in the same way as a written agreement or E-mail.



Thats good then ---sent a text yesterday saying a booking is cancelled for Saturday and no one will be turning up due to non payment of NRBF or signed Contract. :daft: :daft: :daft: :daft:

[Corabar Entertainment]

Thats good then ---sent a text yesterday saying a booking is cancelled for Saturday and no one will be turning up due to non payment of NRBF or signed Contract. :daft: :daft: :daft: :daft:

Which is completely incorrect, as you can't cancel something that didn't exist in the first place :p ;) :D

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

There is no unless you have a signed contract, phone recording or confirmation email then there simply is no binding agreement. Simply saying over the phone "yes I'll do it" is not a binding agreement. It is a gentlemans agreement which in court is called "hearsay" courts will not entertain hear say only evidence.



Unless you are a lawyer Andy, then this is only your opinion. There are some on this thread that worked with contracts as a lawyer/solicitor, so I would be careful who you are arguing with if you don't know for sure what the legal situation is.

That would go for anyone else who is voicing an opinion and is only guessing the law.

[wensleydale]

Some interesting views here.

I dont think you can say 100% either way until you find yourself in that position (which ideally would never happen) but my view of "I cant afford the cost of a tank of petrol" is actually how much would it cost your reputation not turning up if it was going ahead- especially as Mr B appeared to spend the afternoon sitting on the sofa instead.
Could always take the opportunity to show the manager of the hotel that you go to extreme lengths not to let clients down.

[sweetie]

did I miss the bit where we found out if the gig was covered?

[CRAZY K]

Which is completely incorrect, as you can't cancel something that didn't exist in the first place :p ;) :D

I think my case is different, we had a verbal confirmation to go ahead by phone--evidenced by the issue of a Contract ( not supported by a recorded message admittedly) and as far as we are concerned they wanted the booking.

Until they failed to respond to our reminder we were committed to this booking.

No more Mr Nice Guys after this incident :daft: :daft: :daft:

The problem was it was a 3 week run in and we did not dream these people would not want it---but hey---wrong--dream on:daft: :daft: :daft:

[DJ Paulie]

Actually has CB ever thought what this could possibly do to his Google search results ? We have 109 posts and surely they are indexed by Goole and other search engines ? What might happen if a prospect client did a search on his name and saw this ?

Not good CB, maybe should have kept this one to yourself (along with some of your other posts) Not having a pop, just trying to help.
Oh and in referance to Sweetie's question was it covered ?

[Corabar Steve]

Actually has CB ever thought what this could possibly do to his Google search results ? We have 109 posts and surely they are indexed by Goole and other search engines ?
Only if somebody mentioned Ch****e B***n's Ent*******ent





D'oh! :doh:

[discomobiledj]

Only if somebody mentioned Ch****e B***n's Ent*******ent

D'oh! :doh:

What about the links in his signature?

[Corabar Steve]

Doesn't look like they count. If they did this thread would be on the first page of Google by now (going by previous instances) if you entered his business name (it isn't)

[discomobiledj]

Doesn't look like they count. If they did this thread would be on the first page of Google by now (going by previous instances) if you entered his business name (it isn't)

That's lucky.

[DJ Paulie]

Yes that's true, by the way CB just one question after looking at your videos, have you tried just using the wizards without the dots ? Just a thought !

[Andy Goodtimes]

Must be going mad...I wrote something on here yesterday and can't remember if the phone went or something and I never posted or if I posted and it was deleted...Anyway, there are so many things here that in my opinion are not right.

Firstlly must agree with Daren re Andy Collin's remarks re the law.

I notice that a lot of who I would consider highly experienced and professional DJs in their 30s and 40s and + are remarking on here and I would ask any of those that started out in this business in their late teens did they never work in the way that Charlie obviously has on this one? I would like to consider myself as working in a professional style but even now I don't always observe strict practices, only last week a landlady rang me from a lovely little country pub in Hartington and I know this lady from some of my Young Farmers dos, I know that she deals with a lot of DJs and bands and she can't be bothered with returning contracts etc. I know her and just sent her a confirmation email and I know that's a sound booking. If you are going to insist on always observing strict systems and practices of working you are going to restrict your openings without a doubt.

Another thing is that we don't know the full story re this kids party. I don't know charlie and don't want to pic on him too much so just a couple of little points, he mentioned loading the car and then he later mentioned letting his man with a van down. He mentioned the client not ringing him at 2.30pm to see where he was but why then did he start this thread in such an alarmist fashion at the time he did?

Charlie are you board and just having a bit of fun playing with us?

[Corabar Steve]

Charlie are you board

Well, he can be a bit of a plank at times

[Corabar Entertainment]

Well, he can be a bit of a plank at times

:Laugh:

[DazzyD]

There is no unless you have a signed contract, phone recording or confirmation email then there simply is no binding agreement. Simply saying over the phone "yes I'll do it" is not a binding agreement. It is a gentlemans agreement which in court is called "hearsay" courts will not entertain hear say only evidence.
...

I don't agree with this at all. If such a case went to court then it would be up the judge to decide if there was "intent" to form an agreement with both parties. If so, and it looks like this was the case, then the agreement would stand the same as if it had been written and signed. Just because there was no signature doesn't mean there was no agreement. As Angela correctly pointed out (and she would know!) from a legal angle this case, should it ever come before a judge, is not as clear cut as you may believe!


Which is completely incorrect, as you can't cancel something that didn't exist in the first place :p ;) :D

Quite correct. However, a text to state that you are withdrawing the offer of providing the service will suffice! ;)

[Corabar Entertainment]

Quite correct. However, a text to state that you are withdrawing the offer of providing the service will suffice! ;)ahhh.... them goalposts is different! :p :p :p :D

[Andy Goodtimes]

Well I'm no lawyer and could be wrong but I thought a verbal agreement can be just as binding as a written contract and surely a written contract isn't always binding anyway. I no someone that was taken to court by an agency regarding that clause that if an entertainer takes a booking as a direct result and all that within 18 months they are due to pay com, it was found for my friend as it was considered as being unfair terms and conditions even though it was in the contract.

About 90% of my jobs are contracted but if I get cancelled by one of my regulars I can't go insisting on the contract being honoured as that would be an unwise business move. I'm also finding it a bit hard to read all this high and mighty stuff about bookings having to be contracted when there are so many tradesmen that the public certainly hold in higher regard that will accept bookings over the phone. Howabout the towbar chap I booked, he accepted my booking over the phone, had no further contact with me and he stood out of the cost of a towbar for my vehicle and turned up to my home to do the job exactly when he said he would...It was all done on trust, he did his bit and I paid him the agreed price. Same for my new heating system, the plumber came and priced the job and we agreed the price and he told me when he could start work, I offered him a deposit against the new boiler and parts and he said no thanks, he did the job exactly as he said and he got paid too as agreed.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Well I'm no lawyer and could be wrong but I thought a verbal agreement can be just as binding as a written contract and surely a written contract isn't always binding anyway. I no someone that was taken to court by an agency regarding that clause that if an entertainer takes a booking as a direct result and all that within 18 months they are due to pay com, it was found for my friend as it was considered as being unfair terms and conditions even though it was in the contract.

About 90% of my jobs are contracted but if I get cancelled by one of my regulars I can't go insisting on the contract being honoured as that would be an unwise business move. I'm also finding it a bit hard to read all this high and mighty stuff about bookings having to be contracted when there are so many tradesmen that the public certainly hold in higher regard that will accept bookings over the phone. Howabout the towbar chap I booked, he accepted my booking over the phone, had no further contact with me and he stood out of the cost of a towbar for my vehicle and turned up to my home to do the job exactly when he said he would...It was all done on trust, he did his bit and I paid him the agreed price. Same for my new heating system, the plumber came and priced the job and we agreed the price and he told me when he could start work, I offered him a deposit against the new boiler and parts and he said no thanks, he did the job exactly as he said and he got paid too as agreed.

Someone fitting a heating system that doesn't turn up can be contacted and can come another day and the same with someone fitting a tow bar, so that analogy doesn't really stand up Andy.

The reason we are contracted is because we provide a service that is specific to a date and time generally.

[Larry B Entertainment]

Don't fib Charlie, that was you texting the customer just before you went to bed on Sunday morning, probably hoping to hell the didn't reply ;) Can't kid a kidder mate :)

The only thing I will say on this is recieving a text from a "business" at 6.30am on a Sunday morning doesnt seem very professional and TBO it would :Censored: me off if it woke me up.

A booking form should have been in place even if you didnt want a dep Charlie. Keep everything in writing. To me a text isnt a binding contract so you werent even booked by the looks of it.

[CRAZY K]

Well I'm no lawyer and could be wrong but I thought a verbal agreement can be just as binding as a written contract and surely a written contract isn't always binding anyway. I no someone that was taken to court by an agency regarding that clause that if an entertainer takes a booking as a direct result and all that within 18 months they are due to pay com, it was found for my friend as it was considered as being unfair terms and conditions even though it was in the contract.

About 90% of my jobs are contracted but if I get cancelled by one of my regulars I can't go insisting on the contract being honoured as that would be an unwise business move. I'm also finding it a bit hard to read all this high and mighty stuff about bookings having to be contracted when there are so many tradesmen that the public certainly hold in higher regard that will accept bookings over the phone. Howabout the towbar chap I booked, he accepted my booking over the phone, had no further contact with me and he stood out of the cost of a towbar for my vehicle and turned up to my home to do the job exactly when he said he would...It was all done on trust, he did his bit and I paid him the agreed price. Same for my new heating system, the plumber came and priced the job and we agreed the price and he told me when he could start work, I offered him a deposit against the new boiler and parts and he said no thanks, he did the job exactly as he said and he got paid too as agreed.

Yes it would be lovely if we always dealt with honest, non lying, non devious punters not deliberately playing us against non sale of tickets---cheaper quotes elsehere etc.

In my world these people sadly exist and we have been recently subjected to these low life two weeks running.:eek:

It wont be happening again--no more giving people the benefit of the doubt.

Sorry to sound cynical but this problem is no doubt brought about by the current Financial problems of the UK.

I have experienced this in the DJ world for years--sadly it seems to have spread over to the Barn Dance world as well:eek:

[yourdj]

One things for sure - nothing was signed there is no agreement to fulfil.


I agree, but I would have gone to the venue just incase as its not far away and he was sitting on the sofa twiddling his thumbs feeling sick.
I assume he drives as that would complicate things?

A coffee in a nice venue would have done for the journey if no one turned up and if they did great.
Not all clients are organised, especially for normal functions such as kids parties.
I think the fact that nothing was signed is the operators fault - they may not have even known about a booking fee or contract (or cared)
- I have a last min one for next weekend - deposit paid and form signed all in one day.

It's my biggest knightmare (I actually have dreams about this on a regular basis) of missing someone's function due to an admin error. Because of this I am pretty due diligent (most of the time) :p

[discomobiledj]

I agree, but I would have gone to the venue just incase as its not far away and he was sitting on the sofa twiddling his thumbs feeling sick.
I assume he drives as that would complicate things?

A coffee in a nice venue would have done for the journey if no one turned up and if they did great.
Not all clients are organised, especially for normal functions such as kids parties.
I think the fact that nothing was signed is the operators fault - they may not have even known about a booking fee or contract (or cared)
- I have a last min one for next weekend - deposit paid and form signed all in one day.

It's my biggest knightmare (I actually have dreams about this on a regular basis) of missing someone's function due to an admin error. Because of this I am pretty due diligent (most of the time) :p

Charlie doesn't drive. He has a man in a van who ferries him around.

[Andy Goodtimes]

I understand what you are saying Daren but the thing is when you regularly read a forum like this with a high percentage of DJs that conduct their business in a highly professional style its easy to become blinkered to reality. Its obvious that on here the majority are professional and that's prob because any cowboys that join are soon converted by the example of people such as yourself or they just stick round for a while and then leave.

I have heard lots of conflicting estimates of how many DJs there are in the UK but whatever the real number its very clear that there are many thousands and that the active users of forums such as this are most definately a very small minority.

Its also very frequent for us to talk to clients that have horror stories about DJs and its obvious that the majority of DJs do not issue contracts and that they accept their work over the phone or by scribbling something down on a scrap of paper when someone approaches them at another function. Many times I have clients that are surprised to hear that they are going to get a contract and that they are going to be expected to sign and return it with a deposit.

Its going off-topic and prob been overdone on here already and it would be so nice to change things but I have done more than my fair share of time with local associations and NADJ and WDJA trying to change things and guess I've decided that the DJ industry is so massive and so full of cowboys that its like banging your head against a brick wall.

[DJ Paulie]

At least you have things like NADJ over there, there's nothing here. As such there's a lot of Sids undercutting the pros here. I got a reply to a quote for a party at a venue with bad access today. It's a 4hr gig 9 - 1 birthday, so I quoted her €250. It's right in the centre of the city & parking's a nightmare. She said a friend gave her the number of someone who'll do it for €150 with karaoke :omg:

[ppentertainments]

At least you have things like NADJ over there, there's nothing here. As such there's a lot of Sids undercutting the pros here. I got a reply to a quote for a party at a venue with bad access today. It's a 4hr gig 9 - 1 birthday, so I quoted her €250. It's right in the centre of the city & parking's a nightmare. She said a friend gave her the number of someone who'll do it for €150 with karaoke :omg:

And do you honestly think having associations make any difference whatsoever to the price of a dj - the only person who can do this is YOU, stop making excuses and blaming others, or the lack of this and that.

[DazzyD]

And do you honestly think having associations make any difference whatsoever to the price of a dj - the only person who can do this is YOU, stop making excuses and blaming others, or the lack of this and that.

:eek:

Now, calm down, Chris. Take those sedatives and you'll be ok in a few minutes!!!

:D

[DJ Paulie]

FFS I wasn't complaining just said other DJs will & can undercut us. She's not my target client I was trying to help her out as she was let down by another DJ. But if she's paying that sort of money what does she expect ?!

[yourdj]

At least you have things like NADJ over there,

Yes but any muppet with PAT can get that just for the free PLI, free CD and promobile subscription.
I joined last week :lol:

There needs to be a recognizable body like the DJ mark thing or buy with confidence which monitors your past and present operations as well as other professional conduct. :) Any legitimate complaint and your booted out - simple.

[DazzyD]

Yes but any muppet with PAT can get that just for the free PLI, free CD and promobile subscription.
I joined last week :lol:

There needs to be a recognizable body like the DJ mark thing or buy with confidence which monitors your past and present operations as well as other professional conduct. :) Any legitimate complaint and your booted out - simple.

Trading Standards kind of fills that gap, Toby! Or Watchdog!!! :D

[DJ Paulie]

Well in 5yrs here (6 in april) I've never been asked for a PAT cert, PLI (although I have it) or asked if I'm a registered company (which I am) The point I'm making is there's nothing here that clients can gauge a DJ by except personal recommendations or being on a recommended supplier list.

DJ organisations have been tried here but nothing really has come of them. We don't even have any real kind of music copyright system either. So someone living with thier parents, paying no overheads & using either Maplins special or borrowed gear from Uni can go & do gigs. As they do it for cash in hand or a few beers they can charge a lot less.

I'm not saying they're worse than the pros but if they knew what they could charge with a bit of guidance it would be better for everyone. Mind you they do say 'pay peanuts, get monkeys' !

[ppentertainments]

Well in 5yrs here (6 in april) I've never been asked for a PAT cert, PLI (although I have it) or asked if I'm a registered company (which I am) The point I'm making is there's nothing here that clients can gauge a DJ by except personal recommendations or being on a recommended supplier list.

DJ organisations have been tried here but nothing really has come of them. We don't even have any real kind of music copyright system either. So someone living with thier parents, paying no overheads & using either Maplins special or borrowed gear from Uni can go & do gigs. As they do it for cash in hand or a few beers they can charge a lot less.

I'm not saying they're worse than the pros but if they knew what they could charge with a bit of guidance it would be better for everyone. Mind you they do say 'pay peanuts, get monkeys' !
Paulie - the SAME applies EVERYWHERE, we ALL have the same problems you face. You have to ignore people going out cheaper otherwise you will be facing an uphill struggle to gain higher fees - believe me.

I have 6 DJ's in my fairly small village, the highest any of them charge is £120 and that is for a good wedding in a very reputable place. My nearest nice hotel has a DJ who they charge £125 for, a regular venue charge more for orange juice for a wedding party than they do for their resident DJ. I could go on, but whats the point ??

So having associations etc does not change anything, the only thing they can do is what I say to you is to teach YOU how to improve.

I'm not having a go at you Paulie but every obstacle you face you find someone, something or cost to blame. You really have to rise above all this.

[DJ Paulie]

I'm not having a go at you Paulie but every obstacle you face you find someone, something or cost to blame. You really have to rise above all this.

I beg to differ actually, did I at any time state I was blaming anything for me not getting the booking ? I have already replied to the client and said that I couldn't compete. If she can find someone cheaper then let her. (if it is true and she wasn't pulling a fast one to get me cheaper) She's not my type of client. I said to the mrs tonight 'Ok I've got nothing for Oct but I'd rather have one gig at €250 than 3 at €100. The people at that gig woudl ask how much the DJ was and expect that from others, but if that's what they want to pay then so be it.

As I said I'm not saying he wouldn't do a better job than me, but would he have pro equipment, visit the venue to check access & layout, make sure he has the charts upto date, play the songs people want & keep the floor full ? maybe he would, but if someone wants to pay that low a price then let them.

The Butlers chocolates gig for Xmas I quoted over €280 (not saying how much exactly) and probably get knocked down, but I got a glowing referance from them last year and that has probably done a lot for my reputation. I also did 10 gigs for foriegn students this year all at €150. So I will take lower paid gigs. Even though were only 2 hours, I made sure I had the songs they wanted, even if I never play them again, I'll keep them, you never know when you might need them.

So don't say I always find fault with why I can't get gigs, I have my setup the way I want it, the lights I like (and think look good) the 00DJ is still going, (except when the venue's electrics are messy but that's not my fault - don't you dare say it is !) all my clients without exception have said my gear looks good, the songs are good and I'm presentable and they would reccommend me. I've even got a projector now so that's something else i can offer.

Next year I'm going to do one of several things, stay full time if I can get enough work every month, go part time, add uplighting, and try to get more wedding bookings. I must have listened to advice given to me on these forums as this year I've had more weddings than I've done in the last 5 years.

The point I made in my post was there is no organisation here like NADJ, AMP, SEDA, DJMark etc, we don't need produb, PLI or PAT. I wasn't using them as an excuse, just stating facts.

Now back off and go to your happy place ! :sofa: