Cancellation

[rossken]

I recently received a last minute booking for the 19th November 2011. I got the contract e-signed on Monday, however, no NRBF. I emailed the client today asking for the NRBF and got a reply saying that her sister had booked another DJ and has paid them in full.

My dilemma is that she signed the contract agreeing to my cancellation policy (More than 28 days = NRBF, Less than 28 days = Full Fee), however, the NRBF hasn't been paid meaning technically there is no booking at all.

My contract also says - "Client agrees to pay, upon signing this Agreement, a NON-REFUNDABLE Booking Fee of 25% of the total fee."

The question is, am I entitled to the NRBF, the Full Fee, or nothing?

[BeerFunk]

No booking fee means no booking I'd have thought, which surely means that you aren't entitled to anything. I think you might struggle to get the money from them if they don't volunteer it.

[rossken]

No booking fee means no booking I'd have thought, which surely means that you aren't entitled to anything. I think you might struggle to get the money from them if they don't volunteer it.

I thought that may be the case... :(

[paulg]

Well lets face it, unless you're prepared to enforce your T&C's most probably you won't get anything - and how many of us have time or the inclination to go to court.

Personally, I don't ask for deposits and payment can be made right up to the start of an event (it has to be cash if there's no time for other payments). If a customer wants to cancel and go elsewhere, why worry?

[rossken]

Well lets face it, unless you're prepared to enforce your T&C's most probably you won't get anything - and how many of us have time or the inclination to go to court.

Personally, I don't ask for deposits and payment can be made right up to the start of an event (it has to be cash if there's no time for other payments). If a customer wants to cancel and go elsewhere, why worry?

I take your point, and that is the way you want to operate, however, I do take deposits and issue a contract and I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing in this situation.

What's the point of having a contract if you just overlook it and move on every time an issue arises. I'm by no means planning to take it to court, I just wanted to stop and think about what I should do.

[funkymook]

Well lets face it, unless you're prepared to enforce your T&C's most probably you won't get anything - and how many of us have time or the inclination to go to court.

Personally, I don't ask for deposits and payment can be made right up to the start of an event (it has to be cash if there's no time for other payments). If a customer wants to cancel and go elsewhere, why worry?

Seriously? You're happy for one of your clients to cancel 3 or 4 days before the gig giving you no chance to fill the date?

[Shaun]

unless you're prepared to enforce your T&C's

- and how many of us have time or the inclination to go to court.


Yes on both counts, if I felt justified.

I'd never work without a signed contract. If you're not prepared to follow through and enforce them should the occasion arise....then there's no point having them in the first place, if they'ved signed the agreement.


Ross,

I'm no legal expert but does your contract state something along the lines that as soon as the form is signed the client agrees to be bound by the terms? In that case I'd say that it's less than 28 days prior to the event and they owe the fee in full as they have agreed to.

[CRAZY K]

I recently received a last minute booking for the 19th November 2011. I got the contract e-signed on Monday, however, no NRBF. I emailed the client today asking for the NRBF and got a reply saying that her sister had booked another DJ and has paid them in full.

My dilemma is that she signed the contract agreeing to my cancellation policy (More than 28 days = NRBF, Less than 28 days = Full Fee), however, the NRBF hasn't been paid meaning technically there is no booking at all.

My contract also says - "Client agrees to pay, upon signing this Agreement, a NON-REFUNDABLE Booking Fee of 25% of the total fee."

The question is, am I entitled to the NRBF, the Full Fee, or nothing?

Well if a Contract is signed I would have thought that you could insist on at least some compensation.

Im not sure how binding an e contract would be in small claims court--im sure Angela knows;)

I have been caught recently where no Contract has been received or NRBF has been paid on short notice bookings--

Probably only going to small claims court would get you the fee--probably not worth it.

Im expecting to do that next week---but its for an amount of over £2000.

[Corabar Steve]

Well lets face it, unless you're prepared to enforce your T&C's most probably you won't get anything - and how many of us have time or the inclination to go to court.

Personally, I don't ask for deposits and payment can be made right up to the start of an event (it has to be cash if there's no time for other payments). If a customer wants to cancel and go elsewhere, why worry?


Seriously? You're happy for one of your clients to cancel 3 or 4 days before the gig giving you no chance to fill the date?
Obviously a part-timer with a "day job"

[surround sounds]

I'm a part timer but i still get a signed contact..

[rossken]

Ross,

I'm no legal expert but does your contract state something along the lines that as soon as the form is signed the client agrees to be bound by the terms. In that case I'd say that it's less than 28 days prior to the event and they owe the fee in full as they have agreed to.

It says:

"By signing below, I certify that the above personal and event information is correct. I understand, agree to, and personally guarantee to the terms and conditions herein."

So yes I would say that it does say that the client agrees to be bound by the terms.


Well if a Contract is signed I would have thought that you could insist on at least some compensation.

Im not sure how binding an e contract would be in small claims court--im sure Angela knows;)

I have been caught recently where no Contract has been received or NRBF has been paid on short notice bookings--

Probably only going to small claims court would get you the fee--probably not worth it.

Im expecting to do that next week---but its for an amount of over £2000.

I don't have any intention of going to court - It's really not worth it for the amount the gig is paying.

[Shaun]

It says:

"By signing below, I certify that the above personal and event information is correct. I understand, agree to, and personally guarantee to the terms and conditions herein."

So yes I would say that it does say that the client agrees to be bound by the terms.



I don't have any intention of going to court - It's really not worth it for the amount the gig is paying.

I'd say it's enforeable too, going by what you've stated.


If it were me I'd see them in court, even if it meant taking a loss. More so because of the principle of the matter.

[CRAZY K]

I'd say it's enforeable too, going by what you've stated.


If it were me I'd see them in court, even if it meant taking a loss. More so because of the principle of the matter.

Subject to the e contract being enforceable I agree 100 per cent--go for some compo--:beer1:

[Shaun]

Subject to the e contract being enforceable I agree 100 per cent

Well, if nothing else it would be a good lesson as to whether my e-contract is indeed enforceable. :) :beer1:

[rossken]

I'd say it's enforeable too, going by what you've stated.


If it were me I'd see them in court, even if it meant taking a loss. More so because of the principle of the matter.


Subject to the e contract being enforceable I agree 100 per cent--go for some compo--:beer1:


I can at least ask. If she makes a big fuss and says no then oh well...

If you don't ask you don't get!

[paulg]

Ignoring the less well informed comments, do cancellations occur really often for you guys? Last year I recall two or maybe three cancellations but two of those were for very good reasons where I wouldn't dream of taking any form of payment let alone chase someone for it.

What's the likelihood of most of you not taking in enough work to be able to withstand a few knocks here and there?

I don't see the point in burdening customers with small print and legalities that usually won't be enforced.

Seeing people in court and seeking compo is not a good way of maintaining relations with customers and your reputation could only suffer for it. From the OP, for me finding out why a customer cancelled rather than going into combat with them would be more productive in the long term!

[Corabar Steve]

Ignoring the less well informed comments,
Care to share which (in your opinion of course) these are, rather than making snide comments like the above

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Ignoring the less well informed comments, do cancellations occur really often for you guys? Last year I recall two or maybe three cancellations but two of those were for very good reasons where I wouldn't dream of taking any form of payment let alone chase someone for it.

What's the likelihood of most of you not taking in enough work to be able to withstand a few knocks here and there?

I don't see the point in burdening customers with small print and legalities that usually won't be enforced.

Seeing people in court and seeking compo is not a good way of maintaining relations with customers and your reputation could only suffer for it. From the OP, for me finding out why a customer cancelled rather than going into combat with them would be more productive in the long term!

Looking back through my paperwork...I had 9 cancellations last year;

1 death, was within my 30 days for full fee, but didnt chase them for it....as it was the birthday boy (70 year old man) who popped his clogs

1 wedding where they split up...kept the NRBF as they cancelled in plenty of time.

7 general cancelations, ranging from loosing their booking fee, to haing to pay 509%, to having to pay the full amount. Of those 7, im 99% positive that 5 or 6 of them where where they paid the NRBF, then realised that they could loose the fee, and still find a cheaper dj saving them some money... I had to take 2 of them to court as they hadnt read the T&Cs and cancelled within 30 days and wernt paying up... i won both times.

[Corabar Steve]

to haing to pay 509%,
That's one Hell of a penalty clause!

[DazzyD]

Well if a Contract is signed I would have thought that you could insist on at least some compensation.

Im not sure how binding an e contract would be in small claims court--im sure Angela knows;)

I have been caught recently where no Contract has been received or NRBF has been paid on short notice bookings--

Probably only going to small claims court would get you the fee--probably not worth it.

Im expecting to do that next week---but its for an amount of over £2000.

I'd have thought an e-contract is as legally-binding as a paper contract. Again, it's down to whether or not there was the "intent to form a contract" between both parties at the time it was "signed" electronically or otherwise.


Obviously a part-timer with a "day job"

Hey, I'm a part-timer with a day job but I've always run my entertainment business with the upmost level of professionalism including using contracts and taking NRBF. It's all down to my mindset but I do accept different people do things different ways. I know full-timers who are as laid-back as can be and also some who are downright dodgy. But this is not for me!


I'd say it's enforeable too, going by what you've stated.


If it were me I'd see them in court, even if it meant taking a loss. More so because of the principle of the matter.

And if you're not going to enforce your contract then what's the point of your contract?


Looking back through my paperwork...I had 9 cancellations last year;

1 death, was within my 30 days for full fee, but didnt chase them for it....as it was the birthday boy (70 year old man) who popped his clogs

1 wedding where they split up...kept the NRBF as they cancelled in plenty of time.

7 general cancelations, ranging from loosing their booking fee, to haing to pay 509%, to having to pay the full amount. Of those 7, im 99% positive that 5 or 6 of them where where they paid the NRBF, then realised that they could loose the fee, and still find a cheaper dj saving them some money... I had to take 2 of them to court as they hadnt read the T&Cs and cancelled within 30 days and wernt paying up... i won both times.

509%??? :eek: Crikey, you're harsh!!! :D

[Corabar Steve]

Hey, I'm a part-timer with a day job but I've always run my entertainment business with the upmost level of professionalism including using contracts and taking NRBF. It's all down to my mindset but I do accept different people do things different ways. I know full-timers who are as laid-back as can be and also some who are downright dodgy. But this is not for me!
Semantics, I probably should've said hobbyist (which would by it's nature be a part-timer)

[Dynamic Entertainment]

That's one Hell of a penalty clause!

509%??? :eek: Crikey, you're harsh!!! :D
PMSL....its too late at night for me...

"having to pay 50%"

[Ryu]

Is this affected by distance selling cooling off periods?

On another note, much as I understand the need for T's and C's to protect against cancellation, in this case, the OP never expected to be working until the last minute request came in, it was then very quickly cancelled again...no service as such has been provided, your 'loss' is a short term understanding that you' be working on a forthcoming date, the cost of a few emails...i'd put this one down to experience and either adjust the T's and C's and your booking proceedure if you expect this to be a common occurrence or leave things as they are in the knowledge that this particular scenario is unlikely to be common...

[Vectis]

Is this affected by distance selling cooling off periods?

No.


On another note, much as I understand the need for T's and C's to protect against cancellation, in this case, the OP never expected to be working until the last minute request came in, it was then very quickly cancelled again...no service as such has been provided, your 'loss' is a short term understanding that you' be working on a forthcoming date, the cost of a few emails...i'd put this one down to experience and either adjust the T's and C's and your booking proceedure if you expect this to be a common occurrence or leave things as they are in the knowledge that this particular scenario is unlikely to be common...

It does underline the advantages of instant payment solutions and realistic NRBF amounts (ie. 30% or above rather than £20).

[rossken]

So I emailed the client outlining the cancellation policy, and she has come back saying that both the signed agreement and a NRBF is required to confirm the booking, therefore there is no booking.

I think I'm at least due the NRBF as it clearly states in the contract "Client agrees to pay, upon signing this Agreement, a NON-REFUNDABLE Booking Fee of 25% of the total fee. "

So she has agreed to pay the NRBF, so I think I should at least get that.

I have a cousin studying law so I will send her a quick email.