New Watts and Old Watts

[Dr Spin]

In the dim and distant past, I seem to remember that a 100 watt (RMS) amplifier and a couple of speakers was pretty loud.

Now my main active speakers are 200 watts each and the active sub is 300 watts - that's a total of 700 watts (RMS)

It doesn't seem any louder (but it does seem a lot clearer). Is it because the old valve amps gave more sound per watt? Is it that we used to work them hard, while the "clip" lights stop us working the new kit so hard?

Surely it can't be because CDs are quieter than 7" vinyl??

Or am I just going deaf (they told me I would.............)

Are "new" watts quieter than "old" watts - if so, watts the difference ?!?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Watts is power, not sound. You can't hear watts.

[Excalibur]

I'm tempted to post that they don't make watts like they used to in the old days, or that they devalued the watt in 1985, but since someone actually believed something I wrote yesterday, I'd better not. :o :o

The actual answer to this comprises a lot of factors, most of which aren't gripping reading, so unless forced to, I won't go into further detail.

[mattydinx]

I don't know all the technicalities behind it but in my band, My 60w Valve amplifier is louder and sounds more powerful than our other guitarist's 100w transistor amplifier.

I've still got a 100w FAL PA 'head' in my loft, Yes it went loud but it sounded truly dreadful at the same time lol.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

The actual answer to this comprises a lot of factors, most of which aren't gripping reading, so unless forced to, I won't go into further detail.

The actual answer is that you can't hear watts at all. ;)

[funkymook]

I have a 3 kilowatt electric heater - doesn't make a sound!
I also have a 5 watt valve guitar amp - up full it annoys the neighbours.

But don't ask me about the technical side as 'I am a dull and simple lad'

(see what I did there?)

[Excalibur]

The actual answer is that you can't hear watts at all. ;)

That is undoubtedly one of the more major factors to be taken into consideration, but never forget what one of the more respected DJ's of yesteryear, George Orwell wrote:

" All watts are equal, but some are more equal than others".

Oh poo, the pills must be wearing off again. :o :o :o

[funkymook]

That is undoubtedly one of the more major factors to be taken into consideration, but never forget what one of the more respected DJ's of yesteryear, George Orwell wrote:

" All watts are equal, but some are more equal than others".

Oh poo, the pills must be wearing off again. :o :o :o

He also said 'Four watts good, two watts bad'

[Kernow]

I have a 3 kilowatt electric heater - doesn't make a sound!
I also have a 5 watt valve guitar amp - up full it annoys the neighbours.

But don't ask me about the technical side as 'I am a dull and simple lad'

(see what I did there?)

Yep.... you created another irony (;) ) in that James Watt, after whom the unit is named, died at the age of 93 in 1819, and never used electricity in his life ;) :)

[katman]

In the dim and distant past, I seem to remember that a 100 watt (RMS) amplifier and a couple of speakers was pretty loud.

Now my main active speakers are 200 watts each and the active sub is 300 watts - that's a total of 700 watts (RMS)

Its actually a combination of things.

1. Power ratings on older equipment were often very conservative whereas now manufacturers particularly at the budget end of the market seem obsessed by trying to put the highest possible figure, downhill, tail wind, peddling as fast as you can.

2. The sound quality of speakers has improved but there is a trade off in efficiency. A 3db drop in the sensitivity rating of a speaker means you need twice as much power to achieve the same volume.

3. The biggest factor - the increased dynamic range and frequency range of modern recordings compared to older vinyl, particularly the much lower bass frequencies that shake the room. Deeper bass needs a lot of power to move a lot of air

[Excalibur]

Its actually a combination of things.

1. Power ratings on older equipment were often very conservative whereas now manufacturers particularly at the budget end of the market seem obsessed by trying to put the highest possible figure, downhill, tail wind, peddling as fast as you can.

2. The sound quality of speakers has improved but there is a trade off in efficiency. A 3db drop in the sensitivity rating of a speaker means you need twice as much power to achieve the same volume.

3. The biggest factor - the increased dynamic range and frequency range of modern recordings compared to older vinyl, particularly the much lower bass frequencies that shake the room. Deeper bass needs a lot of power to move a lot of air

Have you understood nothing in this thread? :confused: We've been studiously playing silly persons, indulging in wordplay, misquoting famous authors, and generally avoiding posting anything sensible.

So what do you do? You give a logical, reasoned, informative,and accurate explanation, chapter and verse. Well thanks a lot pal! :p :p :p :p :D :D :D :D :D

I suppose I'm going to have to be sensible again, and how I hate that. :( :( :(

[NKR]

That is undoubtedly one of the more major factors to be taken into consideration, but never forget what one of the more respected DJ's of yesteryear, George Orwell wrote:

" All watts are equal, but some are more equal than others".

Oh poo, the pills must be wearing off again. :o :o :o

Trust a yorkshireman to introduce animal farm. You people make me sick :eek:

[Excalibur]

Trust a Yorkshireman to introduce animal farm. You people make me sick :eek:

Capital letter for Yorkshire please. Politeness costs nothing. In the light of the terrible news yesterday about the impending loss of Waterstone's apostrophe, I shall be even more diligent in attempting to avoid standards being lowered even further.

"Old Excalibur is watching you".

There you go mate, 1984. :p :D :D :D :D :D

[NKR]

Capital letter for Yorkshire please. Politeness costs nothing. In the light of the terrible news yesterday about the impending loss of Waterstone's apostrophe, I shall be even more diligent in attempting to avoid standards being lowered even further.

"Old Excalibur is watching you".

There you go mate, 1984. :p :D :D :D :D :D

I stand corrected. I must admit to having not digested 1984, although it is on my reading list.

[Pink Elephant]

Save time and just listen to the Eurythmics version....it was a lot shorter. :D

[Excalibur]

I stand corrected. I must admit to having not digested 1984, although it is on my reading list.

Apologies, my friend, I was referring to another by the same author, not correcting any error by you, since you were wholly correct about Animal Farm.

[katman]

Have you understood nothing in this thread? :confused: We've been studiously playing silly persons, indulging in wordplay, misquoting famous authors, and generally avoiding posting anything sensible.

So what do you do? You give a logical, reasoned, informative,and accurate explanation, chapter and verse. Well thanks a lot pal! :p :p :p :p :D :D :D :D :D

I suppose I'm going to have to be sensible again, and how I hate that. :( :( :(

:lol:

I was REALLY tired yesterday, in fact I had already gone to bed when you posted this. I guess the humour failed to register but that my inner techie was still fully functioning.

Having re-read the thread after getting the equivalent of two normal nights sleep in one night I realise that I failed to give the proper explanation that it is in fact due to metrication.

The amps we were using in the 70s were rated in Imperial Watts whereas all this new kit is rated in Metric Watts. The same thing happened with petrol, we used to buy a few gallons to fill our tanks but now we have to buy almost 5 times as many litres to do the same. Its still petrol but it doesnt give as many miles as it used to.

Its the same with amplifiers and speakers. They still use watts but since metrication we need a lot more of them :D

Oh... and one other thing.... WE ARE ALL GETTING A LITTLE BIT DEAF! :lol:

[NKR]

Apologies, my friend, I was referring to another by the same author, not correcting any error by you, since you were wholly correct about Animal Farm.

I know that. I was apologising for capital Y.

I have read Animal Farm, but not 1984. The road to Wigan Pier is another interesting piece of work from same author.

[katman]

I have read Animal Farm

We had to read that at school. I will now quote everything I remember about it....

""

.... I never did get the hang of literature. Almost failed my English CSE becuase no one told me that the books on the "suggested reading" list were in fact "compulsory".

I read books that interested me, all from the technical section of the school library, wrote reviews of them, got good marks.

Sad down for the actual CSE exam to discover that pretty much ALL of the questions were about the "suggested" books. I didnt have a :Censored: clue !!!

Im pretty sure the ONLY thing I got right was my name and date at the top of the page but Im certain that what I learnt from the books I did read has done me a lot more good than any Shakespere would have done :lol:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Guys, we are veering dangerously off topic here!

[TonyB]

Katman, you stole my thunder as I was going to use the metrication explanation!

I came across this website a while ago http://www.wemwatkins.co.uk/history.htm about the history of WEM and in the early 70's quote:


The immaculate "Stones in the Park" Concert with its quarter of a million audience where I mounted a mere 1500 watts but which could be heard in Edgware and is still rated, to this day, as the most exemplary and perfect sound reproduction of a modern day band. It was breathtaking.........

1500 watts in the open air for an audience of 250,000.

Does make you wonder why we need so many watts these days to push the speakers to the required SPL.

[katman]

Katman, you stole my thunder as I was going to use the metrication explanation!

I came across this website a while ago http://www.wemwatkins.co.uk/history.htm about the history of WEM and in the early 70's

1500 watts in the open air for an audience of 250,000.

Does make you wonder why we need so many watts these days to push the speakers to the required SPL.

:lol: Sorry Tony :)

I was actually looking round the WEM website a few weeks ago. Had seen a band on the sunday night and they were using one of the original Watkins Copycats. I asked the lead singer if it was a Copycat and he said "Yes, but you arent old enough to remember them!" Apparently he has 7 of them.