Uplighting question/s

[MikeW]

Hi Guys.

I had a meeting today with a couple, and I was asked about uplighting. Now I was thinking possibly about going down the uplighting route anyway, and this may have just made my mind up.
Just wanted to know your thoughts on a couple of questions.

(1) If you had the choice ( and I know it would depend on the venue and what you were uplighting ) would you go towards led par cans, or megabar type lights.

(2) regarding connecting these. If the unit has a power in and also power out, I take it, it would be possible to come out of a mains supply and to the first one, and then just daisy chain these using IEC leads?
If so is there a length limit on the IEC cable you can use? Could I for instance have a cable of approx 3 metres?
And the same question for the dmx lead.

Thanks in advance.

[Charlie Brown]

Personally, I wouldn't invest in them.

I spent over £1,700 on the buggers because a client requested them over a year ago and they haven't been used much since.

I'm not sure if the demand is as high? I'm probably wrong, but that's my thoughts. It'll get to the stage where it's old hat and something better will come along which will be the 'must have' for 2013.

[chrisj]

I only have LED par56 and 64's and have always been very pleased with them. I often get great comments on how good they look. I use a dmx192 controller which will provide STL program and also various chase programs.
Check out http://www.abracadabradisco.co.uk/moodlighting.html and http://www.abracadabradisco.co.uk/videos.html

The IEC leads are anything from 1m to 6m long, there is no restriction on length as you could have a 100m mains lead. DMX signal leads are from 1m to 10m.

I use a Y spitter for the IEC leads on the led par 56, Stairville, which all cost me less than £30 with free delivery as I always but 198euro worth at a time.
The LED par 64 (8 of) have been wired by myself with an output IEC fixed in the wooden case and have input IEC on a cable as the 56's do.
I box all my LED par lights and paint the boxes black. There is space in the box for any extra cable if it is too long.

[Get Me A DJ]

Mike,
If it's just a one off then hire them in mate.
There are too many "experts" who are doing this now and making a right hash of things.
By spending all that money, your not going to get a good return on your investment due to these people undercutting the good guys.
As regards using IEC's, personally I don't like the idea, especially with marquees as the damp "COULD" get into the connector and short out.
All of our uplighters (indoor and outdoor types) have IP rated CEE form connectors on them and all of the mains cable is H07 rated as well.
This may seem overkill to a lot of the jocks on here, but with our kit we can put them into council premises and stately homes as a vast majority ask for that type of spec'd cable

If you want any further advise on this then give me a shout via PM.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I've built my Uplighting add-on bit by bit and didn't invest in lots of units in one go. I bought 10 LEDJ Colourbursts originally which did the job so bought another 10 and some others too (Megabars & Kam Panels). I use a mixture of them all when I am doing Uplighting.

I would disagree with Charlie and say that it may be a bit 'old hat' now. That's probably because we all know about it and have done it for ages now. It's surprising how many people don't know about it when I mention it.

I would also say that it's down to how you sell it. Every enquiry I get, I ask the customer if they have thought about additional services such as Uplighting and I also say that it can be discounted when booked alongside the Disco. This has worked for me on many occasions and is still working so I wouldn't say it's 'old hat' at all. There are a number of regular venues that I visit where I know it's easy to put in Uplighting, even DMX'd Uplighting so I will try to sell it to the customer. It's all about potential earnings etc.

Same advice to the OP as others have said - If it's a one off, hire them in. Get some photos taken and add them to your website. You might see the enquiries coming in for it. If they do, re-think about purchasing them.

Lastly, one thing I will say is that in some venues I don't think it's worth doing it for various reasons (dark walls for example). If the customer wants it but I don't think it will look it's best, I will advise them of this. I won't try to just make money out of it if they aren't going to be happy with the effect. If it's a venue that I have not been to before, I will advise that a venue visit beforehand is needed. Also, early access is required to set it up. You couldn't really do it and set up a Disco in 1 hour unless there are a few of you.

[Pe7e]

As regards using IEC's, personally I don't like the idea, especially with marquees as the damp "COULD" get into the connector and short out.
All of our uplighters (indoor and outdoor types) have IP rated CEE form connectors on them and all of the mains cable is H07 rated as well.


What do you do with fittings which have IEC connectors built into them, as opposed to fittings that have a cable to which a CEE Form plug can be attached?
Personally, I don't see the logic of fitting a IP rated plug to a light fitting that is not IP rated itself (the vast majority of uplighters) I do agree marques can be a problem for all electrical equipment in bad weather

[Get Me A DJ]

What do you do with fittings which have IEC connectors built into them, as opposed to fittings that have a cable to which a CEE Form plug can be attached?
Personally, I don't see the logic of fitting a IP rated plug to a light fitting that is not IP rated itself (the vast majority of uplighters) I do agree marques can be a problem for all electrical equipment in bad weather

We get OEM units without any connectors on the ends and with regards the uplighters, all of ours are IP 65 rated hence us using CEE forms :)

[mattydinx]

Hi Mike, I've just taken the plunge into uplighting myself (although they'll be getting used for my Band work too)

I went for the American DJ Mega TriPar Profile, super bright, very compact and can be daisy chained together (up to 33 units I think)

I've already got a large selection of IEC extensions and XLR cables and as you rightly say, you merely link in one side, and out the other.

I did a brief comparison with my MegaBar 50 RCs and the colours are much more vivid with the TriPars (I'll get some photos and videos up when I get time!)

The best part? - They were only £55 per can from Thomann! - Compared to the £79 they're retailing for over here.

It was my first order with them and I was a bit dubious however they pulled through. Ordered Monday afternoon arrived bang on 9am Friday morning.

So to more specifically answer your questions
1) Cans for me
2) The power draw on these units is so low I wouldn't see any problems in long cable lengths however, the longer your cable runs the more resistance you'll build up so the fewer lights you'd be able to run in a row.
One of the boffins on here will be able to work it out properly.

[MikeW]

Thanks very much everyone for your comments, I really appreciate them.

Lots to think about. It is not something I will jump into straight away without giving it a lot of thought.
As with everything there are pros and cons.
Charlie, if I was going ahead, I would not be spending anything like £1700 on them. As has been said, I would start with a few to see how it went.

[MikeW]

Another question. How do you stop kids touching/moving each unit.

I use a megabar on the front of my unit, and it just attracts kids to it. I know they can't come to much harm, but it really annoys me when the do!
So if your cans are half way down a venue, how do you stop kids touching them?

[mattydinx]

Another question. How do you stop kids touching/moving each unit.

Tranquillizer dart or a large stick...i kid lol

I guess you can't - If you're DJing at the venue too you can always make announcements on the microphone.

Once a kid looks directly into one of the cans though they'll probably realize it was a bad idea and not go near it again

[yourdj]

Personally, I wouldn't invest in them.

I spent over £1,700 on the buggers because a client requested them over a year ago and they haven't been used much since.

I'm not sure if the demand is as high?

You have to be kidding, clients love them!
charge an extra £120 for 8/10 gigs I do and do not really have to ask the client as they want them.
Its also a great bargaining chip if the client is humming and haring about the price. its just my time after all.

It is probably the way you are trying to sell the idea/or not selling it perhaps?
I remember in BPM the panel of women described them as "pillars of light" as she had not heard the term uplighting.

Mike i would get 8-10 lights, daisy chaining is OK but if you loose on you loose the lot.
The plugs are very expensive too for the longer ones.

I prefer a two plug extension (black). Basically be prepared to spend lots of money on the leads etc. after purchasing the lights.
It all pays for itself in no time at all and then its just profit, unless you do what charlie has done and by shed loads and not upsell them :D

Give Dave reed a call at RSD music. He has loads of the larger cheap ones. Slimlines are better though (like i had at the last meeting).

[MikeW]

Thanks Toby. So do you DMX them?
What does everyone else do? Do some people not bother with the DMX part?

[yourdj]

Thanks Toby. So do you DMX them?
What does everyone else do? Do some people not bother with the DMX part?

Up to you? I got a wireless sender and reciver for tricky areas (doors etc). Only cost £90.
It makes a massive difference when they are connected but some people just want a static wash to match a colour scheme.

I charge £80 for static and £120 for dmx as it takes ages to wire it all up. :)
6 pars that is. Have not needed to buy any more although i will get another two soon.

[chrisj]

Toby, can I ask which wireless sender and reciever you use? Seldom I would use one but it will be handy on some ocassions.

[Jonny Boy]

Interesting thread. Last year I though it was a bit old hat too...but being able to offer it "as well" is a good USP and has upsold itself.
That "pillars of light" is a good evocative description...:beer1:


Toby, can I ask which wireless sender and reciever you use? Seldom I would use one but it will be handy on some ocassions.

+1, Toby. More info appreciated. :-)



I charge £80 for static and £120 for dmx as it takes ages to wire it all up. :)
6 pars that is. Have not needed to buy any more although i will get another two soon.

That seems a fair add-on rate for 6, Toby. They must bite your hand off!

Quite accidentally I've managed to collect 10 of mixed makes - 4 QTX panel + 4 Acme Par Panel + 2 ADJ Par 64, (not flat).
Using just 4 like-models linked I can do a nice (small) self-contained show (particularly the ACME.) Have used as a "backdrop" for wall behind my performance is a starcloth is untenable....

The standard colours even between the makes (stand-alone) work well together : altough I'm limited to the preset colours.
I've not had to DMX them yet, but plan to buy a controller this year for 10x light with sync'd changes....IN THEORY.

EXPERTS...can you forsee any problems with this plan? IFAIK DMX=DMX if you're using a controller...right?

[Shakermaker Promotions]

It's interesting to see that Toby charges for a set amount of Uplighters. I know others do this too.
I have set prices and they are for Static & for DMX'd because as you say Toby, it takes longer to set up and more importantly look neat.

[Pe7e]

EXPERTS...can you forsee any problems with this plan? IFAIK DMX=DMX if you're using a controller...right?

DMX = DMX well, yes and no, the problem you will encounter is different fittings may well use different chanels to control the functions. To change colour on one set may cause a second set to strobe, black out, or dim, and the third set to do something totally different :eek: IMO you need to use the same type from the same manufacturer if you intend to DMX them :)

[yourdj]

Toby, can I ask which wireless sender and reciever you use? Seldom I would use one but it will be handy on some ocassions.

Look at the conrad electronics store - they even have power in and out like on modern lighting so it can be part of the daisy chain.

http://shop.conrad-uk.com/hobbies/stage-and-studio-equipment/light-effects/light-mixers-controllers-dimmers/591308.html

http://www1.uk.conrad.com/m/5000_5999/5900/5910/5910/591088_LB_00_FB.EPS.jpg



That seems a fair add-on rate for 6, Toby. They must bite your hand off


It's interesting to see that Toby charges for a set amount of Uplighters.

They usually choose the option and I really make a point of it at venues where it makes a big difference. If its a bit over budget then they normally go for the set colour option.

[Jonny Boy]

DMX = DMX well, yes and no, the problem you will encounter is different fittings may well use different chanels to control the functions. To change colour on one set may cause a second set to strobe, black out, or dim, and the third set to do something totally different :eek: IMO you need to use the same type from the same manufacturer if you intend to DMX them :)

Useful Pe7e - thanks.

[MikeW]

Hi Guys

Just thought of another couple of questions.

(1) If a child were to tamper with one of your uplighting lights, and heaven forbid, got electrocuted, would your public liability cover you?

(2) If someone damaged or spilt a drink on one of the uplighters, would they be liable to pay? How can you force them to pay? (is it in your T&Cs?)

Thanks in advance.

[Shaun]

Hi Guys

Just thought of another couple of questions.

(1) If a child were to tamper with one of your uplighting lights, and heaven forbid, got electrocuted, would your public liability cover you?

(2) If someone damaged or spilt a drink on one of the uplighters, would they be liable to pay? How can you force them to pay? (is it in your T&Cs?)

Thanks in advance.

(1) I would think so, if you had taken all reasonable care such as using RCD's. It never hurts to contact your PLI provider in advance to check though.

(2) I assume most of us have a clause in our T&C's that cover us in the event of damage to our equipment by a guest. I.e. the booking client is liable for any damages.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

(2) If someone damaged or spilt a drink on one of the uplighters, would they be liable to pay? How can you force them to pay? (is it in your T&Cs?)

I have had this once when I first got my units. Even though one was placed right in the corner and out of the way, somehow it got damaged. The customer paid for a replacement.
If you have a 'Damages' section in your Terms & Conditions then it should cover it. I have a section on the front of my booking form that advises the customer to check the Terms & Conditions before signing the booking form because they will be liable for damages should any of the equipment be damaged whilst I am working at their function.

[Get Me A DJ]

Up to you? I got a wireless sender and reciver for tricky areas (doors etc). Only cost £90.


Toby, are you experiencing any drop out from those units?
What's the frequency range on them and can it be assigned?