Sub advice....

[hiltonsteve]

Here's a question that has probably been asked a thousand times before but would like some advice from the people that have had more experience with subs than me, which is probably most people..

My simple setup -

Wharfedale titan 12 actives
LD mixing desk
Laptop running PCDJ VJ
Numark DJIO
Wireless mic's, smoke machine, lasers etc...

What I use it for -

Karaoke / party's at home, been asked to do gigs at the local pub a few times but never got round to it.


Problem -

Even though it is mainly used at home the titans still got pushed a bit hard, that hard that last weekend I managed to kill one of them (nasty smell of burning!!) gone in for repair and should should have it back next week. Did look like a manufacturing fault though as when I took it to pieces there was a resistor leg broken on the amp board which looked like it had always been like it and a couple of capacitors melted nearby. Speaker powered up next day and worked but did not smell very good...

So what I would like to do is get a sub to take some of the load off of the titans, I bought a second hand DB technologies sub15 which sounded great in the shop but when I got it home it just made the windows, doors and the glass's in the kitchen cupboard vibrate too much and was very boomy, in fact the sound quality was better without it, now sold it.

Now looking at a second hand db sub12 for £200, before I buy it does anyone have any experience using one with a similar setup to mine at small venue's / home? I need something to fill the bottom end in but not 100% sure if this will give me what I am after.

Thanks.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I wouldn't bother with a sub for home/karaoke use. I would upgrade your Titans to something more efficient and buy a compressor to save your speakers.

[hammy]

I wouldn't bother with a sub for home/karaoke use. I would upgrade your Titans to something more efficient and buy a compressor to save your speakers.

+1, You really dont need a sub for what you do.

[ukpartydj]

I agree, I have a pair of Mackie SRM450's (pretty standard for a lot of people)
For most small / medium halls I use just a pair of those. (450watts RMS each).
if I'm going for 150+ people I'll use the Sub.

Mobile Discos Bournemouth (http://www.ukpartydj.com/bournemouth-mobile-discos.htm)

[mattydinx]

I'd suggest looking at the rest of your system to see if the problem lies earlier in the signal chain.

The Titans should still pack a punch for the small gigs you do, If you're clipping/limiting them them, I'd look at how your gain structure is setup on your mixer.

[hiltonsteve]

If you think a sub is not what I will be needing (which most people are saying) then I will put it on the back burner for now, I do like my bass though when not doing karaoke and still feel I need something. just thought a small sub would be better and cheaper than a new pair of 15" tops. Will put the sub idea to one side for now though.

Dont get me wrong the titan 12A's do give a really nice sound and can I can get some very decent volume from them, I think the reason one failed maybe down to a fault on the board and not because I was pushing them too hard. Cant be 100% sure on this but just a gut feeling.

One interesting comment was regarding a compressor, now the only compressor I have heard of until now was the like the one I have in my garage for blowing tyres up, just googled it and now understand what it is! It would make sense getting one of these to put on the feed from the mics (if that is how they work) as i constantly seem to be adjusting the mixer gain when different people are singing. Will a compressor level this out completely?

Next question is what compressor should I be looking at? I have 3 seperate mic feeds going into the mixer, will I need one on each feed?

[hiltonsteve]

Will this mixer be better than the LD one which I currently have?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEHRINGER-Xenyx-X1204USB-/290679944484?pt=UK_Mixers&hash=item43addff524

It says it has the compressor function built in, sounds a bit cheap but looks like it will do what I need.

Any good?

[hammy]

Great little mixer, Especially for karaoke, If you search around you should get it cheaper than that.

[mattydinx]

It would make sense getting one of these to put on the feed from the mics (if that is how they work) as i constantly seem to be adjusting the mixer gain when different people are singing. Will a compressor level this out completely?

In short, No - There's no 'one' setting for Karaoke, everyone sings differently, some powerful, some soft. It's normal to adjust the gain on each mic for different singers - you can't really get around that.

If your mixer has a PFL per channel which is shown on a VDU meter you should be aiming for around the 0dB mark under normal singing conditions (anything higher and you risk going into clip/distortion). You need to be careful when setting your compressors on live vocals - over-egg it and you can do more harm than good, invoking unnecessary feedback and such.

The Behringer mixer you listed would certainly do the job - whether or not it's much of an upgrade I'm not sure. I used to have a Mackie DFX6 which was a great little mixer, not sure if they're available any more though.

What you may be better off with is a decent EQ to go inbetween your mixer and speakers. Use it to attenuate the frequencies your speakers can't reproduce (probably anything lower than 50Hz) Some EQs also feature built-in limiters which would also protect your speakers before they go into clip.

What model is your current mixer, does it feature a low-cut button on your mic channels? This could also help.

For the kit you've got, you shouldnt be running out of steam so quickly, using the equipment you already have properly will give better results than adding more gear to solve a problem which shouldnt be happening in the first place...

[hiltonsteve]

Model of my current mixer is a LD Systems LAX6D - http://www.ld-systems.com/119-1-lax6d.html

Does what I need but seems slightly limited....

[Excalibur]

Well I'm going to swim against the tide here, and suggest using a sub. Since you do karaoke regularly, 12" cabs are good for that, and filtering the low frequencies off into a sub ought to improve the sound quality, and ease the Titans' workload. Remember, adding a sub isn't necessarily about adding volume, but improving sound quality.