Speakers overheating - Can the mixer help?

[ukpartydj]

Hi guys, something that I think I know the answer to but just would like some clarification on the matter -

I've got a pair of Mackie SRM450's the originals and a lot of people complain about these overheating, I've personally never had a problem but I've never had to drive them very hard. I've got them connected to my pioneer DJM-600 and what I like to do is set the mixer to 0db (just touching the red lights) then adjust my speaker volumes so that the sound is the "peak time volume" and then turn them back down so I know how loud my speakers are without walking out on the dance floor.

In a small venue this means the speakers are on 8-9 O' clock.
Sometimes like last night where the pub is very close by and I didn't want to crank it up at 6pm I just guessed popping the speakers between 8 & 9 o clock and then obviously my mixer only gets to about -5db

There are the words "line" at 9 o clock ... "normal +4db" at 12 o clock and "mic" at 3 o clock.

Ok now this has turned into 2 questions -

1# If I turn my speakers down and my mixer up is the speaker amp actually working less?

2# Is the reason over peoples speakers are overheating because they are putting it on 12 o clock rather than 9?

Thanks guys!

DJs in Bournemouth (http://www.ukpartydj.com/bournemouth-mobile-discos.htm)

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I have Mackie SRM450 V2's and I was aware that some V1's overheated. To be honest I don't know what the problem was but with mine, I was always told to have the volume set at 12 o'clock.

The way I look at it is that 12 o'clock is their recommended maximum volume so it's a bit like having an amp and turning the dials right up to full.
I was always taught and told to have the amps on maximum and control the volume via the mixer.

Not sure if that helps but I've never had a problem.

[ukpartydj]

I've heard the "turn the amp up full" thing before... I don't really understand it to be honest - why give you the option to turn it down if you're not supposed to :confused:

I've personally never turned my amp up to full but I could be making a mistake I guess?

Mobile Discos by UK Party DJ (http://www.ukpartydj.com/)

[Jiggles]

Having the amp up full allows you to have the over head on the amp. Also keeps the gain structure simple. Plus you have some better control for the times you need more. I have a set of V1s. Always at 12 o'cloc never sever had them overheat. I have abused them also and they just shook it off and kept on going!

[ukpartydj]

Ah I see, so it's not a do or do not thing just a preference really regarding the "amp to full" idea.

Personally this would annoy me as I like to see all the lights on my mixer just popping into red so I can visually get sound levels correct... suppose I could change the master level attunement on my mixer but that's just a pain!

I don't suppose anyone knows then does the level on the amp act as a limiter so the mixer pumps out say 100 and if the amp is on full 100 comes through if it's on 50 then 50 comes through or does it act like the mixer pumps out 10 and if the level on the amp is say 5/10 it will make it 300 if it's 10/10 it'll make it 500 or something like that?

I guess I'm asking does the mixer amplify the signal at all?

DJs in Dorset (http://www.ukpartydj.com/south-mobile-discos/dorset-mobile-discos.htm)

[CRAZY K]

No doubt the experts will be along later;)

I am a little surprised you have not had to drive these hard--:confused: as they are not that loud--:confused:

Do you only work in very small venues--as soon as you hit a Marquee with 100 people you would need to drive them hard I guess.

I think you will find on previous theads its to do with luck as to which particular SRMs you bought---as in --made in different places ( Countries) and different times date wise.

I recall posters on here with no problems at all---and others with problems of overheating. Same model version one.

Cant answer question one, cant see it making much difference though.

Pushing the mixer stage hard will cause early distortion I would think--I believe the ideal situation is to limit restrict levels through mixer and max the amp or a high setting anyway.

The only thing the experts forget ( who are tecchies not working entertainers in my experience ) is it increases the hiss on the speaker horns
which is ok if you are playing near to max volume because its deafening anyway.

I dont think the volume control matters for overheating--its how hard the unit works, although by definition to be played at maximum loudness you would have to have the amp up to maximum volume.;)

From what I have read--when Djs start pushing up the volume through the unit as the gig gets going thats when it gets hot on certain units--no one has problems with Mark 2.

As I said the experts will be along but I think the above is relatively accurate.:D :D :D

[djeddie]

One thing to bear in mind with the amp modules is that the HF section is a class AB amplifier, which means that when it's working at it's maximum it will produce less heat than when it is working at, say, half. There is also no fan cooling on the modules so heat dissipation is all done passively.
As long as the amp module (as a whole) doesn't go into shutdown due to thermal problems then I wouldn't worry. My 450's (Mark I Italian jobs) have been run to their limits (and then some!) and haven't ever cut out, yes they've got hot, but never shut down.

[Gary]

There are the words "line" at 9 o clock ... "normal +4db" at 12 o clock and "mic" at 3 o clock.

Line level is usually 775millivolts... if I were trying to plug a single tape deck, or a single CD-player, or basically anything with a pair of phono/RCA outputs, I'd set the powered speaker for "Line Level"

Most (but not all) mixers give out more than "Line Level" out of their master outs. typically expect around 1.1volts (or 1100 millivolts if you like) - if the mixer is calibrated correctly (at the design/factory stage) then you should get that 1.1 volts out when the master output is on the "zero" on the LED ladders for output, or ye olde VU meter. The DJM I recall is only about 1.0 volts on its XLR outputs.

Having the speakers set to expect and input at "line", but actually feeding them master output, could be giving the speakers a bit of a problem - depends how you drive the mixer of course.

[yourdj]

Get a sub. Then you do not have to turn it up. :) I have used your speakers and they are great. Keep speaker at almost full vol and do no not push the mixer in to red or over 0db on the mixer as that will stress the amp.

Also, it may not need to be as loud as you think.

I have heard so many DJ's that think that volume = people dancing but it usually the complete opposite.
Some of my best parties have been with a sound limiter at stupid levels.
Even now when I leave the room and come back, what I thought was OK is too loud.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Gary has given some full on technical advice (I didn't understand most of it to be honest).
I think the best way to go forward now is to firstly take on board some of the advice that has been provided so far.
As I said, turn the Mackies up to 12 o'clock and control the levels etc via the Mixer as that's what it's for really. If you need extra tweaks here and there then you have the gain controls.
The mixer you have is a decent mixer. I used to have one and they are quite powerful mixers.
I am currently using a Vestax mixer that I don't think is that powerful really. I'm having the Mackies at 12 o'clock as recommended and I find that sometimes I am heading towards the red on the mixer. Ok, some levels on the tracks are different and the levels need adjusting when playing out and the Vestax also has an extra EQ section on it which I use too.

As Toby said, try a Sub too. It will fill out the sound a bit more. I have found that I am regularly taking my subs to more gigs now because it gives a fuller sound.

[JAMdisco]

Get a sub. Then you do not have to turn it up. :) I have used your speakers and they are great. Keep speaker at almost full vol and do no not push the mixer in to red or over 0db on the mixer as that will stress the amp.

Also, it may not need to be as loud as you think.

I have heard so many DJ's that think that volume = people dancing but it usually the complete opposite.
Some of my best parties have been with a sound limiter at stupid levels.
Even now when I leave the room and come back, what I thought was OK is too loud.

I have to agree with all that, I always make sure the music is loud enough for the dancefloor area as that is generally where you want the punters. I've sometimes had people come from the back of the room and asked to turn it up, to which my reply is: move closer or come and dance :)

As for the overheating, I also had the SRM450 v1's and yes they got very hot - one even cut out on me once as it got too hot. When I used them in the band (complete with 2 x SWA1501 subs) they were driven really hard and we had little clip-on fans on the back of the 450's to keep them cool.

I eventually got rid of my 450's and went passive (you pedants know what I mean) for a while but am now back to active RCF's and they don't get hot at all (and yes, usually driven fairly hard as i don't have subs yet).