Contracts and postponements

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I'm sure this was discussed before, but I can't remember what the outcome was.

I have had a client postpone their wedding until next year. They didn't tell me this until about a month or so before the date, but as they just wanted to change the date to next year, I didn't think it was a problem.

However, if they now decide to cancel, there wouldn't be a cancellation fee as it would be outside the cancellation period.

Should something be written in to my T&Cs about this? Does anyone else have it in their T&Cs?

[DazzyD]

That's a very good point, Daz, and one which I'm sure many people wouldn't have considered. I know I haven't thought about this before, anyway.

Maybe you could include something in your T&Cs that state that any amendments to the booking date on the original contract outside of the cancellation period are at the company's discretion and any subsequent cancellations will be charged at the full booking rate? I'm not 100% sure how best to word it but I'm sure you could come up with something!

[WWDJ]

I'm sure this was discussed before, but I can't remember what the outcome was.

I have had a client postpone their wedding until next year. They didn't tell me this until about a month or so before the date, but as they just wanted to change the date to next year, I didn't think it was a problem.

However, if they now decide to cancel, there wouldn't be a cancellation fee as it would be outside the cancellation period.

Should something be written in to my T&Cs about this? Does anyone else have it in their T&Cs?

Interesting loophole that could be leveraged. We move dates, we cancel, no fee :D

I guess it depends how your structure works. If you took a NRBF then that would stand anyhow and your cancellation fee would be based on how likely their cancellation would mean that you couldn't fill the date with another gig.

If they phone and cancel next week, you'll likely fill the date next year anyhow so a cancellation fee shouldn't apply.

It's probably more inconvenient that the date has moved and now you have to find a gig for a months time?

It's something that I hadn't thought of though so there is nothing in my T&C's, but I don't think there needs to be (for me anyhow)

[Corabar Entertainment]

Are you getting them to sign a new contract, or are you amending the existing contract by correspondence?

Assuming the latter, you can easily cover it in the email you send to them when agreeing to the change of date / carry over of the deposit.

It's just not practical to cover EVERY situation within your T&Cs.

Getting technical, there is an argument that the T&Cs re cancellation apply to the original date, so any cancellation would be post the date written in to the contract, and therefore full-fee (or whatever your T&Cs state) would apply to any subsequent cancellation. However, I wouldn't like to reply on that argument when it can be so easily covered in the email, which, in effect, acts as a supplementary contract.

[Andy Collins]

For the amount of times that this happens, I wouldn't bother and bite the bullet. If you have this in your T&C's then you are drawing attention to it, so other couples may think that it is acceptable to do this.

If you do put it in your terms and conditions, I would include it in your cancellations bit and class it as such. Afterall if someone moves thier date 3 weeks before the performance date - you have little chance in finding anything else.

So I would treat it the same as a cancellation. Afterall unless there is a very good reason... ie. the groom got hit by a bus, then why postpone?

[WWDJ]

Afterall unless there is a very good reason... ie. the groom got hit by a bus, then why postpone?

Could be any number of reasons ... financial, impending birth (unlikely in this case), health, job commitments (armed services) .....

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

For the amount of times that this happens, I wouldn't bother and bite the bullet. If you have this in your T&C's then you are drawing attention to it, so other couples may think that it is acceptable to do this.

If you do put it in your terms and conditions, I would include it in your cancellations bit and class it as such. Afterall if someone moves thier date 3 weeks before the performance date - you have little chance in finding anything else.

So I would treat it the same as a cancellation. Afterall unless there is a very good reason... ie. the groom got hit by a bus, then why postpone?

The reason they postpone has nothing to do with me. They have already booked the same date next year, so in effect are putting it back a year.

How can I treat it the same as a cancellation if they have just changed the date?

What I am concerned about is them cancelling after changing the date.

[Andy Collins]

I dont think the venue, caters, etc etc will take the same viewpoint.

Just because they changed the date, I'm sure they will treat it as a cancellation because it effectively is just that. Cancel that date and arrange another. A month before should be treated as a cancellation in my view. Deposit lost and they should re-book and another depost taken.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I dont think the venue, caters, etc etc will take the same viewpoint.

Just because they changed the date, I'm sure they will treat it as a cancellation because it effectively is just that. Cancel that date and arrange another. A month before should be treated as a cancellation in my view. Deposit lost and they should re-book and another depost taken.

Deposit and 75% of the fee lost. Do you really think they will rebook again next year?

[Andy Collins]

who cares, they booked and cancelled anyway?

The venues work the same way Darren, business or charity??

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

who cares, they booked and cancelled anyway?

The venues work the same way Darren, business or charity??

It's never that straight forward Andy.

[Andy Collins]

I know that Darren, easy to sit here and type when I don't know the situation, circumstances etc.

Simply looking at the facts, and this is what I would have done.

postpone (cancel) at a months notice, they have lost the deposit as I have little chance of getting another job

They rearrange the date - I will take another depost. But as a good will gesture - I will deduct the original deposit from the final bill.

That way, if it all goes to plan, they loose nothing and have paid the original amount. If they cancel then you have 2 deposits out of them.

In fairness, I think that is not only a good idea, but makes perfect business sense. Especially if you rely on the income.

[Dynamic Entertainment]

I must admit. I'm with Andy on this one Daz.

I can see both sides of the coin, but you've effectively lost that date this year and picked up a date next year...which you would have probably filled anyway.

If you charge £400 per gig, then your effectively going to be £400 down.

[surround sounds]

Yes i am with andy and done this in the passed

[Corabar Entertainment]

Chaps... isn't the discussion of whether or not you would carry forward a deposit on a postponement a completely different discussion, and certainly not anything to do with what Darren is asking?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Chaps... isn't the discussion of whether or not you would carry forward a deposit on a postponement a completely different discussion, and certainly not anything to do with what Darren is asking?

Correct. I am not asking for opinions on how I run my business, thanks anyway. :)

[Corabar Entertainment]

Correct. I am not asking for opinions on how I run my business, thanks anyway. :)...and just in case you missed my earlier response with the tangent...


Are you getting them to sign a new contract, or are you amending the existing contract by correspondence?

Assuming the latter, you can easily cover it in the email you send to them when agreeing to the change of date / carry over of the deposit.

It's just not practical to cover EVERY situation within your T&Cs.

Getting technical, there is an argument that the T&Cs re cancellation apply to the original date, so any cancellation would be post the date written in to the contract, and therefore full-fee (or whatever your T&Cs state) would apply to any subsequent cancellation. However, I wouldn't like to reply on that argument when it can be so easily covered in the email, which, in effect, acts as a supplementary contract.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I amended the contract via email.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Ahh, so this is an 'after the event' question? - ie you've already communicated your agreement in writing?

Difficult to impose any additional / amend terms now then, but at least you'll know for future reference.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Ahh, so this is an 'after the event' question? - ie you've already communicated your agreement in writing?

Difficult to impose any additional / amend terms now then, but at least you'll know for future reference.

I actually know the people, but it was something I started thinking about last night.

[Corabar Entertainment]

:thumbsup:

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Chaps... isn't the discussion of whether or not you would carry forward a deposit on a postponement a completely different discussion, and certainly not anything to do with what Darren is asking?

Ill start a new thread as I'm genuinely interested in peoples thoughts on this; is postponement and cancellation that much different...either way your loosing out at short notice on a gig this year and picking one up next year...for date that you would have probably filled anyway.

Anyway...like I say...new thread on its way :)

:beer1: