OHM RW5s and OHM RWS(ubs)

[Ryu]

Hi All,

Currently carrying 2 amps with me with the above speaker set up, one at 800w, one at 1000w, but the 1000w amp has been running a little unreliable, so have been left over using just the 800w amp.

RW5s 2 x 350w at 8ohms tops
RWS 2 x 300w at 8 ohms subs.

I'd like a second Amp which I can use either in tandem with the 800 or alone as a back up Amp, and wondered if you Speaker scholars could recommend a good Amp I could buy. Would be open to the Amp/Crossover combo option too, though I am informed the Subs have active crossovers in them (which I would expect to be of lower quality than a standalone crossover)

I am, when it comes to speakers, ohms and suchlike, a true novice, but am learning and overly reliant on the now retired old man...so any advice would be great!

Thanks

[djeddie]

The subs haven't got active crossovers in them. They may have passive crossovers, but definitely not active.
There are a whole host of amps I could recommend to you from budget / entry level units up to high end pro amps that cost over two grand each. So to be more precise with a recommendation what is your budget and what rack space do you have for them?

[Ryu]

Thanks Eddie, rack space isnt a problem, budgetwise, ideally below £500, but open to suggestions above that if its going to put the system on the next level, my guess is that, as the speakers are mid-range (price wise) passives there is only so much effective amping can do.

[Excalibur]

Now I'm not up on these particular models, so I'll give only what I regard as a safe answer, which would be to use an active crossover, and two amps. If I read you post correctly, the tops are rated higher than the subs, which isn't optimal. However, if you use an active crossover ( Behringer CX2310 or CX 3410 for example ) that's not a big problem.
I'm asssuming the figures given are RMS, so I'm basing my choices on that. I'd use the existing smaller amp on the tops, and something giving around 500w RMS per channel at 8 ohms on the subs. Something like QSC GX5, Studiomaster AX2500, KAM KXR 1500, W-Audio ( Warrior) DA1300, or if you wanted to spend a bit more, the Yamaha P5000S. A Peavey PV2600 would also fit the bill, but it's as big as you want to go. The last two mentioned have built in crossovers, but I'd ignore those functions, and just run them as normal amps. That's because we want to use the facility of being able to turn both amps up, and control the balance between subs and tops from the output controls on the crossover.

That's a fairly simplified answer, and it's by no means the only or perhaps the best way to do it. Others may come up with better options, but the one I've outlined would work. Hope this helps.

[Ryu]

Now I'm not up on these particular models, so I'll give only what I regard as a safe answer, which would be to use an active crossover, and two amps. If I read you post correctly, the tops are rated higher than the subs, which isn't optimal. However, if you use an active crossover ( Behringer CX2310 or CX 3410 for example ) that's not a big problem.
I'm asssuming the figures given are RMS, so I'm basing my choices on that. I'd use the existing smaller amp on the tops, and something giving around 500w RMS per channel at 8 ohms on the subs. Something like QSC GX5, Studiomaster AX2500, KAM KXR 1500, W-Audio ( Warrior) DA1300, or if you wanted to spend a bit more, the Yamaha P5000S. A Peavey PV2600 would also fit the bill, but it's as big as you want to go. The last two mentioned have built in crossovers, but I'd ignore those functions, and just run them as normal amps. That's because we want to use the facility of being able to turn both amps up, and control the balance between subs and tops from the output controls on the crossover.

That's a fairly simplified answer, and it's by no means the only or perhaps the best way to do it. Others may come up with better options, but the one I've outlined would work. Hope this helps.

Thanks Excalibur, that is really helpful (and educational), I'd seen some rules and sticky's for set ups but nothing which could answer my situ as comprehensively as that. I'll check out the Amp/Crossovers you mentioned, thanks again

[Excalibur]

Thanks Excalibur, that is really helpful (and educational), I'd seen some rules and sticky's for set ups but nothing which could answer my situ as comprehensively as that. I'll check out the Amp/Crossovers you mentioned, thanks again

Like I said, it's a fairly general answer, cos at the back of my mind is a niggling suspicion that for people who know those cabs well, there may easily be a way of doing what you want more easily/cheaply/successfully. May be.

Just a couple of points. The crossover make isn't necessarily vital, cos at the budget end of the market, they're much of a muchness. As long as it's a 2way stereo ( and consequently usually then 3 way mono) it's fine.

Amps, I've no first hand experience of the QSC, though it's a well regarded company. I've used the KAM, and for a budget amp it does exactly what it says on the tin. I've got the bigger Studiomaster bought s/h, and like that a lot, and I've got the Peavey as well, but if funds allowed, the Yamaha is the class of the field. Good luck.

[Ryu]

Like I said, it's a fairly general answer, cos at the back of my mind is a niggling suspicion that for people who know those cabs well, there may easily be a way of doing what you want more easily/cheaply/successfully. May be.

Just a couple of points. The crossover make isn't necessarily vital, cos at the budget end of the market, they're much of a muchness. As long as it's a 2way stereo ( and consequently usually then 3 way mono) it's fine.

Amps, I've no first hand experience of the QSC, though it's a well regarded company. I've used the KAM, and for a budget amp it does exactly what it says on the tin. I've got the bigger Studiomaster bought s/h, and like that a lot, and I've got the Peavey as well, but if funds allowed, the Yamaha is the class of the field. Good luck.

All useful stuff. I shall keep it all in mind. I know Darren had mentioned having these speakers in the past but may have been a while ago, these are a discontinued make of speakers, but have performed admirably for me, and can cope with up to 200. I usually go Mixer - Amp - Sub Input, Link to Tops, set the amps to full and master volume with the mixer.

Quick one, would the amps/crossovers you mentioned use speakons? And secondly, would the amps be able to power the system independently if the other amp failed (or would I be wise to carry an additional 3rd amp for backup?)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I used to use mine with a single amp. I phoned Ohm and they told me that the RWS are bass extenders and not subs, so if you do want to split the frequencies you'll need an active crossover as Peter has said.

If you are using 2 amps and a crossover and one dies, you can still use all 4 speakers from one amp with the impedance lowering.

I used to use a Peavey PV2600, but be careful as I managed to blow one cab and kill the voice coil too. The only time it's ever happened and the first time I had used an amp with a lot more headroom. Make of that what you will!!

[Excalibur]

The crossovers will use XLR connectors, you run your two mixer outs into it, and get four out, two low, and two high, which are your inputs for the amps. They connect as normal to the relevant speakers.

Two words of caution. When using an active crossover, always switch it on before the amps, and off after. Apparently they can send a pulse on startup/switchoff that can take out other components. So I'm told.

Second, don't mix the channels up. Feeding the wrong frequencies to the cabs can also be bad news.

A bit of good news though, you will have full control over the crossover point, and the relative sound levels in the two sets of cabs, so plenty of chance to "suck it and see ". This allows you to tailor the sound to your needs .

Now to Darren's points, this is something he has pointed out before, and I think ( only think mind ) from what he says, that the LF cabs have a filter in them, as opposed to a crossover. This basically means that they only receive the low frequencies, but send a full range output to the tops, thus adding bass.. Some folk like this effect, some don't. I have a suspicion that it may also present a four ohm load per channel to the amp, thus allowing it to deliver a high output.

In my very humble opinion, if my premise is correct, theoretically a PV2600 doing this ought to be a good match for the rig, and ought not to cause damage. As we know though, "never say never". I don't expect Darren to have been redlining the kit, so I can't offer any good reason why this happened. Neither can I see a reason to advise against using the gear set up in this way, so I'm on the fence there.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Peter, it may have been the fact that the Peavey amps have DDT protection which allegedly stop a distorted/dirty signal being sent to the cabs and I may have let this light come on on occasion...

[Excalibur]

Peter, it may have been the fact that the Peavey amps have DDT protection which allegedly stop a distorted/dirty signal being sent to the cabs and I may have let this light come on on occasion...

Ooooh, you little tinker. :Naughty: Peavey allege that the system is bombproof. I have seen folk allege that it isn't.

And I'm not going to start castigating anyone for flashing the red lights, cos I spent one night opposite a band with my amp doing an impersonation of a set of traffic lights! I damaged a driver that night, I know. :o :o :o £25 to replace it! :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Ryu]

This is all gold, gonna do a bit of budgeting today and see what I can come up with.

Thanks Darren and Peter for all your advice! Will let you know what I go with. Have a few larger Marquee gigs this summer which required a bit more oomph than the one amp alone could handle, so this looks like a solution which could extend the life of this system ahead of upgrading to a new one!

[addoaddo]

Some of the amps specificed in this thread have an active crossover built in. I have used Yamaha P5000 as this has the necessary lowpass filter so although a bit more expensive the sytem could work out cheaper.

[NKR]

I used my QSC RMX2450 with the OHM RW3's. Worked really well. The RW5's are not much bigger so should do the job.

I used a CROWN XLS 602 prior to that and that 602 still pushes 4 OHM RW3's over the christmas period as outriggers, so it should do the job too.

[Excalibur]

Some of the amps specificed in this thread have an active crossover built in. I have used Yamaha P5000 as this has the necessary lowpass filter so although a bit more expensive the sytem could work out cheaper.

As I pointed out earlier.
The extra cost of the crossover wouldn't be exorbitant, and would give more control, which could be useful.

Simply using the crossover in the Yamaha ( or Peavey ) would indeed work, no argument, but might not be the most effective solution. It would cut wiring a tiny bit, but not significantly.

[Ryu]

Well, bit of an update. After much research (I seem to live on Equipment websites at the minute)...I finally plumped for the Peavey 2600 and a new Mackie Pro FX Mixer to boot.

Looking forward to trying it all out this coming weekend. Any words of caution? I'm going to take it all very gently at first as the amp has plenty more headroom than I need....its going to be really refreshing to use a system that has Oomph to spare instead of feeling like its lacking a bit of muscle.