Mac book pro

[Sarah]

Hi all again. A bit more advice please.

I have the iPhone 4 and love it. I've deliberated and deliberated over which lap top to buy to go digital.

I've seen the Mac Book Pro today and really like it. The build quality is great and well, call me mad but I'm 99% sold on it.

I've got all but 15 or so of my CD+G's transferred to an Iomega 1TB external hard drive. Very little of my music C.D's as yet, that's the next job!

I hope to eventually be able to do discos and karaokes via the mac using Virtual D.J 7. Need to buy that and sort out Pro-Dub.

For those of you that seen or advised in my last thread and seen the TV I've sent for, will all run ok?

My mixer is the Kam Pro 1500. I know the badge gets slated but I've had no problems with it.

I will be running 2 mics for singers (kam) and 1 for myself (S.M.58) through the 3 mic input channels.

This will leave me 4 phono and 4 line inputs for the mac and a back up CD+G player.

Will the mac have outputs for my TV, will I need a sound card/graphics card as I'd want volume on 2 sliders? Will the hard drive I have connect up to the mac ok?

I'll be off up to Currys again later but just thought I'd get your opinions and advice please.

Sarah x

[Sarah]

I should have added that I'll probably be getting the DJ2Go too. Just to start off. I can't afford MC6000's or equivalent yet and would prefer to go digital with a mixer I'm confident with, if that makes sense?

Sarah x

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

You could afford the MC6000 if you bought a laptop instead of a Mac...

:sofa:

[Sarah]

I suppose I'll have to mention the mac book as my nana would say. . "will be on the drip!!"

Sarah x

[DazzyD]

You could afford the MC6000 if you bought a laptop instead of a Mac...

:sofa:

I'd have to agree with Daz on this one.

It's my own personal opinion that a £1000+ MacBook Pro is a bit overkill (or should that word be "extortionate"?? :D ) for the application you are wanting it for. In answer to your question - yes, it will do what you want (although I've never run VDJ on a Mac).

I'm running the same show that you're describing on a £299 laptop with no problems at all. The additions I've got are a 1TB external drive, a Numark DJ2Go controller, the AverKey Keylite VGA convertor that I linked to yesterday (by the way, forgot to mention that this neat little device duplicates the signal on to two outputs - I use it for a small singer monitor and also an output to the big screens), and a good fan-based cooling stand. Factor in the cost of VDJ and ProDub and there's still a nice little sum left over when compared to the price of a (new) MacBook Pro.

[Sarah]

Mmmm! What is your laptop Dazzy D, please.

Sarah x

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I might add Sarah, that I use my MC6000 for karaoke, but I also use a Studiomaster C3X (http://www.studiomaster.com/products/C3&C3X.htm) for the mics.

[Glenski]

I also feel that this is a little over-kill for what you want to do !!

Can i ask in total how many karaoke tracks have you ripped ? ... reason being if it is in excess of say 5000 plus tracks, then you will need all your pennies for the Pro Dub Licence [Karaoke cost more because of the uplift tier].

Ideally, you'll want a laptop that has at least 3/4 USB 2.0 ports if you intend to use an external soundcard, mouse [track pad is useless really for VDJ7] and your DJ2GO controller... the Mac Book will no doubt only have 2 USB ports.

I use a HP Pavilion DV6 laptop [which was a refurbed unit] and i upgraded the RAM to 8GB and the HDD to 1TB, and it has an intergrated graphics card and a dedicated graphics card and i paid under £400 for it [upgrades cost me round £100].

Thank you

[mattydinx]

MacBook Pro user here with VDJ 7 - Love mine to bits!

I got mine when they launched the 'late 2008' model but it's still as fast (if not a little quicker after installing OS X Lion) as the day I bought it - It's been a fantastic investment and as tempting as the newly announced macbook pro's are - I don't see need to upgrade yet!

You can get various adaptors for video-out depending on what you want to connect to. They can be had for between £10-20 and are just plug & play.

Most (usually non-mac owners) will make a comparison based on price which isn't really fair to do. OSX is a far more refined operating system than windows and performs considerably better on the same-spec hardware.

We sell windows-based laptops at work which out-spec my MBP by miles...yet they feel slow and sluggish in comparison.

Mac's are a big investment, but they're one you won't regret!

Just a note about your controller choice too, The MC6000 wouldn't really be suitable for karaoke, from what I've read the mic pre's are awful.

My personal setup comprises of a Denon DN-HC4500 Controller (with built-in 4-ch sound card) which works flawlessly with VDJ and the Mac - No drivers to install or configure, just plug it in and go. Coupled with an external mixer, I've got full manual control over my music (i.e. not controlling things like EQ, Gain, Levels through software)

With the above controller, you could keep your current mixer (if it's working for you, why change?) and have good control over your software without relying on a mouse or keyboard for everything.

[ianforest]

i agree with everything Matty says, the MC6000's mic's aren't that great to be honest so stick with your Kam. I had it's predecessor, the MobilePro and it was possibly the best mixer I ever had.

As for the Mac, well, again as Matty says the comparisons are a little unfair, the hardware is better, the OS is better BUT I feel overkill for what you want.

I'd look to get the Denon DN-HC4500 controller to use with VDJ, it has a sound card built in and will work with the Mac or a Windows laptop.

The external hard disk will be fine on windows, if it's in NTFS format you won't be able to write any information to it if using a MAC, it's proprietary microsoft technology that they won't license. If you format it in FAT then it will be just fine on Windows or Mac.

The standard Windows laptops are very good though but the OS is such a let down.

[Sarah]

Hi, I wouldn't be using my laptop to write to my hard drive if that's what you mean. I have a P.C at home that I would use for sourcing, ripping music etc. I would purely be looking for the mac to run my said hard drive through for gigs if that makes sense?
Thank you
Sarah x

[katman]

I wouldn't be using my laptop to write to my hard drive if that's what you mean.

If you are using Virtual DJ you would be. It stored the database as an XML file on each drive that it catalogues tracks from.

[Sarah]

Sorry, I'm a real novice when it comes to computers and anything about going virtual at the moment.
I've been practicing on the free home edition of Virtual D.J on my home P.C.
I would install Virtual D.J version 7 to whatever laptop I decide to buy.

Do you mean that if the tracks on my external hard drive were ripped via a P.C they wouldn't work through a Mac?

Sorry if I sound thick, lol x

[DazzyD]

Mmmm! What is your laptop Dazzy D, please.

Sarah x

It's a simple little Compaq Presario CQ56 with AMD V mobile processor and 3Gb Ram. It's got Windows 7 on it and it runs VDJ7 with no problems at all.


Sorry, I'm a real novice when it comes to computers and anything about going virtual at the moment.
I've been practicing on the free home edition of Virtual D.J on my home P.C.
I would install Virtual D.J version 7 to whatever laptop I decide to buy.

Do you mean that if the tracks on my external hard drive were ripped via a P.C they wouldn't work through a Mac?

Sorry if I sound thick, lol x

It's my understanding that PCs and Macs use totallying different formatting /file structure standards so I'm not too sure your music ripped to HDD from your PC would actually be readable on a Mac. I'm not sure so I'm waiting to be corrected!! ;) (although I do know you can do it if you first dual-partition the drive - this would mean erasing all your hard work and starting again!)

[Sarah]

Thanks Dazzy D, I remember your lap top choice now from help you gave me before.

Phew, I'm eagerly awaiting a response too. My nephew did them all for me on my home P.C. He was climbing the walls, cost me 3 square meals a day for him and all the Stella he could drink.

I think it's fair to say the mac will be well out the 'windows' if it won't work!! :Censored:

[Jiggles]

Mp3s ripped from a pc will work perfectlly fine on a mac. If the hdd is formatted with ntfs then without a plugin. Fat32 is a format that both can read. Personally a mac is ideal for what you want the fact you don't need vts drivers for latency free sound which is brilliant as its not something extra to go wrong they also can be used as a normal laptop a home without worry. Pc it's really not reccomended.

Trust me the mac will work. First time and every time. Top tip: don't try an work a mac like you work windoz. You won't get far before you find it doesn't work or hard to use. ;)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Personally a mac is ideal for what you want the fact you don't need vts drivers for latency free sound which is brilliant as its not something extra to go wrong they also can be used as a normal laptop a home without worry. Pc it's really not reccomended.

Trust me the mac will work. First time and every time. Top tip: don't try an work a mac like you work windoz. You won't get far before you find it doesn't work or hard to use. ;)

Rubbish. As usual.

Laptops work and are cheaper and aren't any more hassle than Macs. I have been DJing for almost 10 years with Pcs without problems. Drivers are downloaded and installed very easily.


Pay you money and take your choice, but please don't listen to the propaganda from the Apple boys. Make your own mind up.

[DazzyD]

Mp3s ripped from a pc will work perfectlly fine on a mac. If the hdd is formatted with ntfs then without a plugin. Fat32 is a format that both can read. Personally a mac is ideal for what you want the fact you don't need vts drivers for latency free sound which is brilliant as its not something extra to go wrong they also can be used as a normal laptop a home without worry. Pc it's really not reccomended.

Trust me the mac will work. First time and every time. Top tip: don't try an work a mac like you work windoz. You won't get far before you find it doesn't work or hard to use. ;)

Do you mean NTFS with a plugin?? That really doesn't read right with me. I thought NTFS and FAT32 were different standards? :confused:

Anyway, Callum, thanks for clearing it up that it is possible to use the HDD on both - provided it's the right format and doesn't need to be twin-partitioned.

Before I get accused of being a Mac-hater (again!!) I'd just like to point out that I'm simply proferring a more cost-effective option. I remember Sarah saying a couple of months ago that she didn't have loads to splash out on equipment. And even Ian said he thought the MacBook Pro was overkill for the application under discussion. And I did state in my first post that I believed the MacBook Pro would be up to the job! :)

Just thought I'd clear that up - just in case anyone misinterprets my intentions (and absolutely nothing to do with me reading about the proposed anti-trolling laws that are all over the web news pages today!! ;) )

[Jiggles]

Rubbish. As usual.

Laptops work and are cheaper and aren't any more hassle than Macs. I have been DJing for almost 10 years with Pcs without problems. Drivers are downloaded and installed very easily.


Pay you money and take your choice, but please don't listen to the propaganda from the Apple boys. Make your own mind up.

Drivers are an extra point of failure. Speak to the Ati graphics boys on what problems crap and poorly made drivers cause. Most equipment for mac is a simple plugin and play. Real plugin and play the drivers are all built into the system. I have lost count the number of times windoz has locked up with running nothing serious on it before switching to mac. Been using windoz since 95. Best move I did yeh they cost but worth it for the 100% stability of the system.


Do you mean NTFS with a plugin?? That really doesn't read right with me. I thought NTFS and FAT32 were different standards? :confused:

Anyway, Callum, thanks for clearing it up that it is possible to use the HDD on both - provided it's the right format and doesn't need to be twin-partitioned.

Before I get accused of being a Mac-hater (again!!) I'd just like to point out that I'm simply proferring a more cost-effective option. I remember Sarah saying a couple of months ago that she didn't have loads to splash out on equipment. And even Ian said he thought the MacBook Pro was overkill for the application under discussion. And I did state in my first post that I believed the MacBook Pro would be up to the job! :)

Just thought I'd clear that up - just in case anyone misinterprets my intentions (and absolutely nothing to do with me reading about the proposed anti-trolling laws that are all over the web news pages today!! ;) )

NTFS writing isn't supported natively on mac due to
M$ being stilly with the licences. FAT32 is the only format both windoz and mac will read and write too.

I would see the mac as an investment for future proofing. My current mac is running its original install of OSX. That was 4 or so years ago. Pcs to keep the same performance a reinstall one a year is the only way to keep it so I find. Also none of the faffing of trying to streamline the mac as its already streamlined. Disabling services etc all on demand.


Sorry for the rather fragmented replays on my phone!

[Sarah]

I have no idea whether the CD+G's or music discs were copied to the external hard drive in FAT32 or not. No clue at all. The apple lad at Currys was a real whiz. I think I'll take the hard drive up to him. Obviously he won't have software to play it through. Will it just be recognised on the mac then if it works?
God, I really want to get up-to-date and stop having to haul case loads of discs round with me but this is head battering cos I'm so far behind with it all.

I've watched a you tube tutorial on the Denon 4500 and really like how it controls both computer and C.D players. Am I right in assuming it only controls Denon C.D drawers then? This wouldn't really matter if I kept my Kam mixer and dual C.D+G players.

I did see that the 4500 won't connect to an analogue mixer, is my Kam Pro 1500 analogue?

I can understand why it may seem the easier option to get a cheap lap top and the D.J.2.Go through my current set up.

It's my birthday today, maybe I'm getting carried away with wanting a few expensive presents for myself!!

Thank you all x

[DazzyD]

Well, Sarah, first of all :bday:

Secondly, it's dead easy to find out which system has been used to format your hard drive. Make sure the drive is connected to your PC. Then go to (My) Computer (depending on which version of Windows you are running). Locate the drive (it might be E,F,G etc.) then right click on it. At the bottom of the pop-up window, click Properties. The drive properties info box will appear. It will tell you whether it's NTFS or FAT32 under the "File system" label (or alongside, rather!!).

[Excalibur]

Hello Sarah, and as Dazzy said :bday:

Lots of good advice here, as usual, let me add a few thoughts of my own.
Whatever machine you use, try to get as many USB ports as possible. I'm running an ancient Acer, because it has four ports. Mouse, DJ2GO, DJIO (Sound card. Highly recommended ) and external Hard Drive. I have no experience of using hubs to expand the system, but would recommend if one is used, that it's powered.

I love my DJ2GO, it has revolutionised the way I use my Laptop.

As to file systems/Macs etc, from what's been said, you could use a Mac if you did what I would recommend anyway. Backup. It's virtually certain that your HD will be NTFS out of the box. The way round this withour wiping all your hard work is to buy a second HD, and before using it, format it to FAT32. Then copy all your data from the first drive to it. Then format the first drive to FAT 32 as well, and copy the data back to it. Buying a windows pc would mean this step wasn't needed.

As Darren says, the MC6000 won't run Karaoke on its own, you'll need another mixer of some sort. It's an excellent piece of kit, but as with everything, it has limitations.

Good luck with your KAM mixer, I had one and loved it to bits, it's ideal for Karaoke, but mine wasn't very reliable.

Keep asking questions before signing your soul away, it may save you lots of money, and should mean you get the right kit for you.

[mattydinx]

Laptops work and are cheaper and aren't any more hassle than Macs.

I beg to differ, I work for an IT support company and our clients use a range of macbooks, iMacs, windows based PCs and laptops.

We've never had to have a mac brought into the workshop for repair - ever. The only calls we get regarding macs are usually to do with their configuration (emails, how to use a feature of a program, etc)

PC's and laptops on the other hand are coming into the workshop on an almost daily basis. Blue Screens, Hardware failure, Software installs buggering up the OS...

With regards to the file system your hard drive uses - no need to worry or change anything from your current set-up. I use a 3rd party driver called Paragon NTFS which allows you to write data to hard drives formatted for window's NTFS file system.

In terms of USB connectivity, you don't really need more than two ports - I manage just fine. My external drive connects to one, and my Denon DN-HC4500 connects to the other handling both control and audio over the one USB connection. For me, the trackpad and hardware controller give me all the control I need.

Sometimes there can be confusion between this analogue/digital malarkey - The DN-HC4500 has 4 analogue outputs which by default would be configured as
Deck One - Left (1) & Right (2)
Deck Two - Left (3) & Right (4)
You would then have independent control over each deck on your normal mixer.
This is how mine is currently setup, for your karaoke purposes you could keep one deck for simply playing normal music between singers, and keep the other deck for playback of your Karaoke tracks.

[Excalibur]

In terms of USB connectivity, you don't really need more than two ports - I manage just fine. My external drive connects to one, and my Denon DN-HC4500 connects to the other handling both control and audio over the one USB connection. For me, the trackpad and hardware controller give me all the control I need.
.

I would have to strongly disagree with that. I have described what I need, and why.

[ianforest]

Ok let's answer your questions again :)

If your external hard disk is formatted as NTFS then it will work on both PC & MAC. The only difference is that on the Mac you will not be able to write any information to the external disk (which is a bit pointless really) so if the hard drive is formatted as NTFS and you are really set on getting a mac you will need to COPY all the files off it, reformat it as FAT32/FAT (you can do this easily on both Windows or Mac) and then move the files back onto it.

You can use the Denon HC4500 to control both your computer and the Denon 4500 CD drawers. And yes you can connect it easily to your Kam 1500 with no problem at all, it's just 2 pairs of phono (red/white) leads into channels 1 & 2 or 3 & 4 or whatever on your mixer.

As for PC & Mac, well, the advantages/disadvantages of both has been a long discussion over tens of years.

Apple Advantages

1. Apple Mac's get almost no viruses, this is because Windows has such a huge market share therefore Mac isn't that important.
2. OSX (the operating system) only runs on Apple Computers (generally, some people have managed to hack it to work on other non-apple machines but it's not recommended) therefore it's far less prone to software and hardware crashes.

Apple Disadvantages

1. Expensive. Mac's cost more than Windows-based machines.

PC Advantages

1. It's cheap. Windows laptops cost less than Mac laptops.
2. Windows runs on any windows-compatible laptop. You can even install Windows on a Mac if you wanted to.

PC Disadvantages

1. Viruses...lots of them. You will almost certainly need to have an anti-virus software package installed.
2. Slow(ish) - Windows 7 has a lot of background tasks and services which consume lots of disk space, ram and CPU resources, therefore Windows runs slower, and will run even slower over time.

This is not propaganda...it's real, proven facts.

[mattydinx]

I would have to strongly disagree with that. I have described what I need, and why.

What you need, yes - I was merely making Sarah aware that what she's trying to achieve can be done with only two. (Since people take that mac's only had two USB ports as a huge negative...it's not)


so if the hard drive is formatted as NTFS and you are really set on getting a mac you will need to COPY all the files off it, reformat it as FAT32/FAT (you can do this easily on both Windows or Mac) and then move the files back onto it.

Not true, as stated in my previous comment, there are 3rd Party drivers available which will let you write to NTFS formatted drives saving you from messing on transferring files from one drive to another or faffing about re-formatting drives, etc.

Such as this: http://www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs-mac/

[ianforest]

Not true, as stated in my previous comment, there are 3rd Party drivers available which will let you write to NTFS formatted drives saving you from messing on transferring files from one drive to another or faffing about re-formatting drives, etc.

Such as this: http://www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs-mac/
Yup, but that requires Sarah to spend more money, what's the point in doing that, hasn't she spent enough on the Mac already?

Why spend money on a "middle man" when she can just format it as FAT and not have to worry about spending money on drivers to make something work?

[Megamix]

I use Windows PCs, Windows Laptops and Macs - I have had to reconfigure and update the Windows PCs regularly. I've rebuilt them, replaced parts etc.
I've never fixed my Macbooks or iMac.
I know why i spend more on my own Apple computers - but I'm sure there are many people happy with Windows PCs - just seems a lot of the owners ask me to sort theirs out!

[ianforest]

I agree, I remember using Windows exclusively, the amount of motherboards I went through, ram upgrades, defrags, etc...i'm sure it's a lot better now than it used to be, back in the mid 2000's it was cool to build your own, these days it's cheaper to buy one ready made, and with warranty, but oh-so-expensive to get fixed.

[Corabar Entertainment]

I remember using Windows exclusively, the amount of motherboards I went through, ram upgrades, defrags, etc...OK... it's good practice to defrag regularly, but that's the sort of comment that Mac users frequently make, and I really can't help wondering what the hell they were doing to their Windows computers to have all these problems!

There's no doubt that Macs are good quality, and I'm certainly not disputing that whatsoever, but the way Mac users talk, you'd swear that Windows computers weren't capable of running anything for 5 minutes without going belly-up, and that you absolutely HAVE to have a Mac even if you're only going to send an email once a week! .... and THAT's what gets up my nose.

To Mac users in general: Sorry that you had so many problems with Windows computers, but that isn't the case for many of us.

[Jiggles]

Sending an email once a week then yeh a Macs possibly an over kill. (Me being me though if I can afford it I would go mac none of the headaches. Even for light usage.) It's the things you dont see that are good. :D

[ianforest]

OK... it's good practice to defrag regularly, but that's the sort of comment that Mac users frequently make, and I really can't help wondering what the hell they were doing to their Windows computers to have all these problems!
Again, it's a proven fact that over time a hard disk can become fragmented and this can cause performance issues. Unfortunately, again, it has been proven that FAT and NTFS filesystems are unreliable and are the main cause of the fragmentation.

The Mac OS filesystem manages fragmentation by always looking for free space large enough to accommodate a file. If there isn't enough space, and the file being saved has to be split into more than 8 parts then automatic defragmentation takes place.

Again, this is fact, not fiction, or propaganda.



There's no doubt that Macs are good quality, and I'm certainly not disputing that whatsoever, but the way Mac users talk, you'd swear that Windows computers weren't capable of running anything for 5 minutes without going belly-up
Well, we all know that's not true...it's maybe 10 minutes at best. :p

[Corabar Entertainment]

Again, it's a proven fact that over time a hard disk can become fragmented and this can cause performance issues. Unfortunately, again, it has been proven that FAT and NTFS filesystems are unreliable and are the main cause of the fragmentation.

The Mac OS filesystem manages fragmentation by always looking for free space large enough to accommodate a file. If there isn't enough space, and the file being saved has to be split into more than 8 parts then automatic defragmentation takes place.

Again, this is fact, not fiction, or propaganda.I think you need to re-read my post, Ian: I was agreeing with you that you need to defrag from time to time, so there's no need to go down the "this is fact, not fiction, or propaganda" route. It's the rest of it I am laughing at. Be careful, that horse looks mighty high from here! :p

[Excalibur]

What you need, yes - I was merely making Sarah aware that what she's trying to achieve can be done with only two. (Since people take that mac's only had two USB ports as a huge negative...it's not)


And I was merely working on what Sarah said she was looking to buy. A DJ2GO. Add a DJIO to that and you've spent around £100. And spoken for two ports. The HC4500 would obviously achieve this with one, but could it be purchased for £100? I don't know, but the wish for a low cost option was stated .


The hard drive accounts for a third, unless you get a machine with a large Hard Drive.

[Sarah]

It is indeed NTFS!

[Jiggles]

To be honest its not really that a big an issue to worry about. Could be worse and you are unable to read it at all!

[DazzyD]

Once again, what started out as a decent thread with someone genuine asking for useful advice information, has been hijacked by the Mac vs PC debate - a debate which I actually, intentionally, tried to divert away from in post #18.

I had to double check which forum I was in as some people who are offering their opinion (let's keep it straight!) don't even offer karaoke as a service (or it's not clear from their websites) but seem hell-bent on pushing that Macs are best for this application. Pub karaokes (where I would expect a fair bit of Sarah's work to come from) are not £500-a-go weddings bookings. If someone can find me a £200+ karaoke residency round here (and I'm not getting in to pricing - just stating from experience) then we'll split the difference from what I make now!! I'd also then consider investing in a Mac (or maybe not seeing as how the systems I have do the job that I want them to perfectly!).


I beg to differ, I work for an IT support company and our clients use a range of macbooks, iMacs, windows based PCs and laptops.

We've never had to have a mac brought into the workshop for repair - ever. The only calls we get regarding macs are usually to do with their configuration (emails, how to use a feature of a program, etc)

This doesn't surprise me. I worked as an in-house programmer for Apple Mac in the early 90's and we had our own repair workshop which was always busy. And we'd charge over £100 plus VAT just to talk to a client (all big commercial clients and government / educational establishments) on the phone - that's before doing any work for them! Maybe Apple owners prefer to get Apple specialists to carry out their repair work. Just a thought! ;)

PC's and laptops on the other hand are coming into the workshop on an almost daily basis. Blue Screens, Hardware failure, Software installs buggering up the OS...

Hmm. Although we did have 1 PC in the office, we didn't do any PC repair work at all. Probably passed it all on to your lot!! ;)

With regards to the file system your hard drive uses - no need to worry or change anything from your current set-up. I use a 3rd party driver called Paragon NTFS which allows you to write data to hard drives formatted for window's NTFS file system.

In terms of USB connectivity, you don't really need more than two ports - I manage just fine. My external drive connects to one, and my Denon DN-HC4500 connects to the other handling both control and audio over the one USB connection. For me, the trackpad and hardware controller give me all the control I need.

Sometimes there can be confusion between this analogue/digital malarkey - The DN-HC4500 has 4 analogue outputs which by default would be configured as
Deck One - Left (1) & Right (2)
Deck Two - Left (3) & Right (4)
You would then have independent control over each deck on your normal mixer.
This is how mine is currently setup, for your karaoke purposes you could keep one deck for simply playing normal music between singers, and keep the other deck for playback of your Karaoke tracks.


What you need, yes - I was merely making Sarah aware that what she's trying to achieve can be done with only two. (Since people take that mac's only had two USB ports as a huge negative...it's not)

I've been doing the same application as Sarah since 1999. I certainly wouldn't get by with just two USB ports!!

Not true, as stated in my previous comment, there are 3rd Party drivers available which will let you write to NTFS formatted drives saving you from messing on transferring files from one drive to another or faffing about re-formatting drives, etc.

Such as this: http://www.paragon-software.com/home/ntfs-mac/


Yup, but that requires Sarah to spend more money, what's the point in doing that, hasn't she spent enough on the Mac already?

Why spend money on a "middle man" when she can just format it as FAT and not have to worry about spending money on drivers to make something work?

And why on earth would an Apple user install a 3rd party driver when all Apple users know that the root of all computing evil (malmare) lies with 3rd party developers? Isn't this the reason why Apple doesn't allow 3rd party access to it's OS??


OK... it's good practice to defrag regularly, but that's the sort of comment that Mac users frequently make, and I really can't help wondering what the hell they were doing to their Windows computers to have all these problems!

There's no doubt that Macs are good quality, and I'm certainly not disputing that whatsoever, but the way Mac users talk, you'd swear that Windows computers weren't capable of running anything for 5 minutes without going belly-up, and that you absolutely HAVE to have a Mac even if you're only going to send an email once a week! .... and THAT's what gets up my nose.

To Mac users in general: Sorry that you had so many problems with Windows computers, but that isn't the case for many of us.


Again, it's a proven fact that over time a hard disk can become fragmented and this can cause performance issues. Unfortunately, again, it has been proven that FAT and NTFS filesystems are unreliable and are the main cause of the fragmentation.

The Mac OS filesystem manages fragmentation by always looking for free space large enough to accommodate a file. If there isn't enough space, and the file being saved has to be split into more than 8 parts then automatic defragmentation takes place.

Again, this is fact, not fiction, or propaganda.


Well, we all know that's not true...it's maybe 10 minutes at best. :p

I'm actually going to agree with the defrag comments made here. But, fragmented discs were a big issue ten years ago when PCs had 128Mb RAM and ran at a paltry 400Mhz. With every increase in RAM and processor speed increase (not far short of 10x what it was then), then the issue of fragmentation is less and less. The reason? Because PCs now have the speed and processing power to be able to able link up bits of files spread across a drive without a big increase in task time. In fact, a major HDD manufacturer, about 2 years ago, said in a report that the performance boost you get from a fully defragmented drive on a modern PC is so insignificant, it could see an end to the need for defragmentation altogether. Put simply, the benefits do not outweigh the time and effort (and increased risk of HDD failure from repetitive defragging) that it takes to defrag a modern HDD.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

OK... it's good practice to defrag regularly, but that's the sort of comment that Mac users frequently make, and I really can't help wondering what the hell they were doing to their Windows computers to have all these problems!

There's no doubt that Macs are good quality, and I'm certainly not disputing that whatsoever, but the way Mac users talk, you'd swear that Windows computers weren't capable of running anything for 5 minutes without going belly-up, and that you absolutely HAVE to have a Mac even if you're only going to send an email once a week! .... and THAT's what gets up my nose.

To Mac users in general: Sorry that you had so many problems with Windows computers, but that isn't the case for many of us.

Hallelujah! A person from the real world...:D

[Javlingames]

I think my next laptop will be a mac, i use a pc at the moment and am very happy with it.

Everyone i speak to that uses a mac say they would never go back to pc. They cant all be wrong?

[Larry B Entertainment]

When I saw the thread title I just knew the Apple syndicate would be jumping into action.

Apple vs PC....Yawn :rolleyes:


Sarah, as others have said it is really down to personal preference and how much you want to spend. Yes, Macs will do the job but so will PCs for a lot less money.

I have always used PCs and have never had much of a problem. I dont get what people must be doing to get through so many, one of my old (2.8ghz, 40gb hdd, 1 gb ram) laptops is still going strong and has been around the block more times than I care to remember but I could take it out tonight and run Karaoke on it as easy as anything.

[Megamix]

When I saw the thread title I just knew the Apple syndicate would be jumping into action.

Hardly surprising since Sarah mentioned she had seen a Mac she wanted to buy. And there's no PC evangelists on this thread??

What annoys me the most about these Apple vs PC threads is that the vast majority of PC owners have never used a mac and therefore are simply defending their platform.

To have a more reasonably balanced opinion use both for a while. I did and still do and my preference is still personal but informed.

[sweetie]

Last year I needed to get a new vehicle for family/djing and could have spent a few grand on a second hand van/mpv but in consulatation with my wife we ended up buying a new (demo model) mpv with climate control, cruise control, bluetooth, panormaic sunroof etc. Both vehicles would do the job but we felt we wanted the extra comfort, safety and reliability guaranteed with the newer vehicle.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Hardly surprising since Sarah mentioned she had seen a Mac she wanted to buy. And there's no PC evangelists on this thread??

What annoys me the most about these Apple vs PC threads is that the vast majority of PC owners have never used a mac and therefore are simply defending their platform.

To have a more reasonably balanced opinion use both for a while. I did and still do and my preference is still personal but informed.Actually, you'll find that most of your so-called 'PC evangelists' have merely stated that Windows PCs do the job perfectly well - without needing to resort to running down Macs.

Several of us have stated that Macs are obviously good and perfectly capable. It's a shame that Mac users can't accept that Windows machines are perfectly capable of operating without issue too.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Actually, you'll find that most of your so-called 'PC evangelists' have merely stated that Windows PCs do the job perfectly well - without needing to resort to running down Macs.

Several of us have stated that Macs are obviously good and perfectly capable. It's a shame that Mac users can't accept that Windows machines are perfectly capable of operating without issue too.

Absolutely.:)

[Sarah]

Well just to now put this 'thread to bed' and thank you all for the great advice and comments. I've deliberated and deliberated more.

However, given my desk top at home is Windows (Philips MT2400) and I'll be using this to download tracks, do the donkey work, update hard drives with etc.

I've decided to buy the Sony Vaio VPCEH-3N6E. It's £529.99 in Currys/P.C World.

It has Intel Core i5, 4GB memory, 640 GB hard drive and Intel HD3000 graphics.

If I'm completely honest the fact it has 4 usb ports was a big selling point for me too.

So, I've come home for my debit card (as I can afford it, just too!)

Have logged in here and gonna wait 30 mins for a few replies that it will serve my needs and then I'm off back up to get me sweaty little mit on it:)

thanks all

Sarah x

[Megamix]

"Windows PCs do the job perfectly well " - then why pay extra for a mac...alas most of you will never know, realise or appreciate...until then...carry on and we shall be divided by opinion.

[DJ Jules]

I've decided to buy the Sony Vaio VPCEH-3N6E. It's £529.99 in Currys/P.C World.

If you're not confident buying second hand hardware (which not everyone is) then this is definitely the way to go. It'll have more than enough power for DJ'ing, Karaoke and VJ'ing if you're that way inclined.

Julian

[Sarah]

Thank you Jules.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I've run 2 x Vaios for a few years now without problems.

[DJ Jules]

"Windows PCs do the job perfectly well " - then why pay extra for a mac...alas most of you will never know, realise or appreciate...until then...carry on and we shall be divided by opinion.

At the risk of inflaming this thread further - as a non-Mac user, can you tell me what is different about the MAC which makes it worth almost 2.5x the price?

I'm after functional differences which can justify the difference to me, as a business user, not aesthetic ones. I'll give you some examples of my buying criteria when I pick up any new product:

Will it help me win more business?
Will it make me a better DJ?
Is it able to cope with performing heavier functions (like VJ'ing, etc?)
Is it a pre-requisite for playing in certain clubs due to equipment snobs running the show?
Does it work better with other pieces of hardware like Pioneer, Denon etc?
Are certain software products which will make me a better DJ only available for iOS?

I'm not doing this to annoy MAC users, I'm genuinely interested as at present I have an all non-Apple kit list (Windows/Andriod) and I will be renewing kit in the next 6 months or so. I've got a Windows tablet at home and I had a good play with an iPad yesterday and I understand now why iPad is better (lighter and more responsive with a far better OS for touch) than Windows 7 Tablet edition - and I'm curious to know what iAnything could do for me elsewhere?

Julian

[Sarah]

Cheers Darren.

[Larry B Entertainment]

2. Slow(ish) - Windows 7 has a lot of background tasks and services which consume lots of disk space, ram and CPU resources, therefore Windows runs slower, and will run even slower over time.



But that can all be sorted with a few tweaks here and there.

Im sure I couldnt go out now and buy a mac book pro, plonk some DJing software on it and thats it....Done !
I wouldnt have to change a single performance setting ?

Windows will work just as well after having a few settings tweaked and I cant say I notice any drop in speed over time.

[Larry B Entertainment]

At the risk of inflaming this thread further - as a non-Mac user, can you tell me what is different about the MAC which makes it worth almost 2.5x the price?




The Apple Logo :D

[DazzyD]

Hardly surprising since Sarah mentioned she had seen a Mac she wanted to buy. And there's no PC evangelists on this thread??

What annoys me the most about these Apple vs PC threads is that the vast majority of PC owners have never used a mac and therefore are simply defending their platform.

To have a more reasonably balanced opinion use both for a while. I did and still do and my preference is still personal but informed.

What is surprising is the number of people who are advising on the topic of karaoke who don't actually do karaoke!! I strongly believe people should advise based on experience but it seems that the Mac is being pushed here just for the sake of it. Can anyone here categorically, and truthfully, state that they run a regular pub karaoke (sub £200 price range) using a Mac? We've discussed at length about the virtues of using "cheaper" microphones for karaoke so why on earth would you risk a £1000+ piece of technology in this environment? Doesn't make good business sense to me, especially when a sub £500 laptop can do the job just as well.


Actually, you'll find that most of your so-called 'PC evangelists' have merely stated that Windows PCs do the job perfectly well - without needing to resort to running down Macs.

Several of us have stated that Macs are obviously good and perfectly capable. It's a shame that Mac users can't accept that Windows machines are perfectly capable of operating without issue too.

Good comment!


Well just to now put this 'thread to bed' and thank you all for the great advice and comments. I've deliberated and deliberated more.

However, given my desk top at home is Windows (Philips MT2400) and I'll be using this to download tracks, do the donkey work, update hard drives with etc.

I've decided to buy the Sony Vaio VPCEH-3N6E. It's £529.99 in Currys/P.C World.

It has Intel Core i5, 4GB memory, 640 GB hard drive and Intel HD3000 graphics.

If I'm completely honest the fact it has 4 usb ports was a big selling point for me too.

So, I've come home for my debit card (as I can afford it, just too!)

Have logged in here and gonna wait 30 mins for a few replies that it will serve my needs and then I'm off back up to get me sweaty little mit on it:)

thanks all

Sarah x

Good choice of laptop. Sony Vaio have a really good build quality which is why there are a bit pricier than other laptops. We've still got an older one kicking around and it still works fine despite it's age.

[Sarah]

Cheers Dazzy D.

At the risk of sounding like Columbo . . "Ehr, just one more kwestsion!"

Will the graphics on the Sony be ok, or will I hit that blip that has the fixable problem you advised about many moons ago, please?

Sarah x

[WWDJ]

Will it help me win more business?
Will it make me a better DJ?
Is it able to cope with performing heavier functions (like VJ'ing, etc?)
Is it a pre-requisite for playing in certain clubs due to equipment snobs running the show?
Does it work better with other pieces of hardware like Pioneer, Denon etc?
Are certain software products which will make me a better DJ only available for iOS?

- Possibly, but only if your clients think that Macs are better.
- No
- In comparison to a similar PC, no, it will do a similar job, but the operating system and software are generally very stable.
- In my limited experience no, but possibly
- Audio Drivers do not really need tweaking but generally similar.
- No. (you mean OSX)



Im sure I couldnt go out now and buy a mac book pro, plonk some DJing software on it and thats it....Done !
I wouldnt have to change a single performance setting ?


Buy Mac, load software and sound card drivers. Job done. REALLY!

[Jiggles]

Buy Mac, load software and sound card drivers. Job done. REALLY!


Probably wont even need to do that!

[DazzyD]

Cheers Dazzy D.

At the risk of sounding like Columbo . . "Ehr, just one more kwestsion!"

Will the graphics on the Sony be ok, or will I hit that blip that has the fixable problem you advised about many moons ago, please?

Sarah x

I'm not 100% sure which problem you're referring to. In 2008/09 Sony used an nVidia graphics chip in it's Vaio machines that was beset with problems. This promoted nVidia to actually admit to the chip being flawed. However, your machine uses a new breed of Intel HD graphics chip which should work perfectly well.

The issue I had was do with screen freezes. This was fixed by turning off the Windows Aero system and I've had no problems since. Oh, and I did have a dodgy add-on for VDJ that I uninstalled. Problem solved!

[Sarah]

I think I just remember something about a screen lag but is fixable??

[Daryll]

I do have a quite titter on these subjects..........:D
I do karaoke , I use a dedicated laptop.................

Toshiba Equium L10 300

1gb ram
120gb HD
Intel celeron 1.Ghz M

I use the box standard on board graphics and an external 19" monitor

use the free Sun fly player , and guess what......................never had a problem

Daryll

[DJ Jules]

Thanks for the objective response :)


- Possibly, but only if your clients think that Macs are better.
- No
- In comparison to a similar PC, no, it will do a similar job, but the operating system and software are generally very stable.
- In my limited experience no, but possibly
- Audio Drivers do not really need tweaking but generally similar.
- No. (you mean OSX)


Sorry - yes I did mean OSX. So, given that my Windows XP laptop that I've been using for two years now and has never, ever faulted during any performance (Audio only or Karaoke), there is no clear business advantage to me using a Mac over a Windows based PC? The only arguments I've found so far which hold water to some extent are around build quality & operating system reliability.


Buy Mac, load software and sound card drivers. Job done. REALLY!

I had the same thing with my Laptop, load Virtual DJ 7, plug in Numark Mixtrack, Go (drivers are all class compliant so native to either WinXP or VDJ7), so I would have had exactly the same experience on WinXP, Win7 or OSX.

Julian

[DJ Jules]

I think I just remember something about a screen lag but is fixable??

Sarah - it sounds like it won't be a problem with newer Vaio's. Try it and see, if it turns into an issue then I'm sure there'll be a fix out there for it.

Julian

[Sarah]

It's here and bought, not out of the box yet.

Gonna get a DJ-2-GO and start on getting some uplighting. Will leave the Denon controller for now too. Baby steps, I'm getting there though, thanks to you all.

Again, thank you all for your help.

Sarah x

[DazzyD]

I think you're doing the right thing - a step at a time. I've known new DJs come on here, invest in the latest kit in one go, find themselves totally bewildered and then just disappear!! I started DJing with vinyl in 1992 then worked through CDs, mini-discs and up to MP3s. I'm just getting to grips with digital controllers now. And despite being a bit of technophile, I've a long way to go to catch up with DJing technology.

[Glenski]

Apple Mac Book SALE!

PC World Click Here (http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/deals-on-ipad-1030-commercial.html?cmpid=social~facebook)

[Excalibur]

I've decided to buy the Sony Vaio VPCEH-3N6E. It's £529.99 in Currys/P.C World.

It has Intel Core i5, 4GB memory, 640 GB hard drive and Intel HD3000 graphics.

If I'm completely honest the fact it has 4 usb ports was a big selling point for me too.

thanks all

Sarah x
Sorry I'm a tad late on this Sarah, but that machine should be just dandy.


Cheers Dazzy D.

At the risk of sounding like Columbo . . "Ehr, just one more kwestsion!"

Will the graphics on the Sony be ok, or will I hit that blip that has the fixable problem you advised about many moons ago, please?

Sarah x

As Dazzy said, the problems were with the Nvidia chip, so you should be fine there.

Now oe word of encouragement :) , one of discouragement :( .

DJ2GO is a wonderful wonderful piece of kit, I have one and can't recommend it enough. Basic as it is, it still has about a dozen buttons I never use, but it has revolutionised the way I work. The only downside is surprisingly enough monetary. Though the kit itself is dirt cheap, it needs the full Pro version of VDJ to function properly. That will dent the uplighting fund by about £170 on top of the cost of the DJ2GO. :( :( :( :( :(

( More bad news as well, I'd also recommend the DJIO as well, because it's a great soundcard for using with VDJ. Sadly that's about another £70 gone . ) It will however give you two separate channels which plug straight into your mixer, with phono plugs.

[Sarah]

I'd taken VDJ into account, not the sound card though.

I didn't even think about 2 seperate channels, but that's prepared me>

Mike at Phase One has a little DJ-2-Go bag and Numark u.s.b headphones he's kept to one side for me. I've ordered the DJ-2-Go off Amazon today £49.

With regards to the Macbook Pro Sale, I suppose I've still saved £300 getting the Vaio and to be honest another thing that put me off was the Apple new releases coming out in August. I'd have spent a grand on something that would seem yesterday's spec and there's no way I would've stretched to the price of the new models.

I'm chuffed up to now with me Sony, trying to get used to the track pad like!

Incidentally, it's well equipped with out puts too, so which will be best the best port to come out of for the tele, which also has every possible connection on too ( thanks to you all!)

I'd want as long a lead as possible just so as I'm not restricted on positioning my equipment.

Sarah x

[DazzyD]

I'd taken VDJ into account, not the sound card though.

I didn't even think about 2 seperate channels, but that's prepared me>

Mike at Phase One has a little DJ-2-Go bag and Numark u.s.b headphones he's kept to one side for me. I've ordered the DJ-2-Go off Amazon today £49.

With regards to the Macbook Pro Sale, I suppose I've still saved £300 getting the Vaio and to be honest another thing that put me off was the Apple new releases coming out in August. I'd have spent a grand on something that would seem yesterday's spec and there's no way I would've stretched to the price of the new models.

I'm chuffed up to now with me Sony, trying to get used to the track pad like!

Incidentally, it's well equipped with out puts too, so which will be best the best port to come out of for the tele, which also has every possible connection on too ( thanks to you all!)

I'd want as long a lead as possible just so as I'm not restricted on positioning my equipment.

Sarah x

With regards to your video output, I'd probably stick with the VGA out. IMO, that would be the best way to go. However, thinking about it, it might have HDMI which would also be a good option.

It's funny you should mention about the Mac being out of date. When I worked for Apple, we only dealt with business/corporate clients. They would order their systems from us and we would order them from AppleMac UK. Now, AppleMac UK used to bring a new offer out every Monday which meant, no matter when you bought your computer, it was always superceded the following Monday. A client noticed this and asked me when the best time to order was. I told him I thought the best time was when he really needed a new machine. If he waited til the next offer, then even that would be out of date the week after. I've always thought that this was a very odd way to work but, I suppose, Apple was a fast-moving company!!

[Sarah]

It does have both VGA and hdmi so which will I get the longest length of, please.

Sarah x

[Glenski]

Stick to VGA Sarah with one of those adapters i posted a link to ...

[katman]

It does have both VGA and hdmi so which will I get the longest length of, please.

Sarah x

VGA is far easier to send over longer distances. HDMI can be very troublesome.

However, some TVs are limited in the resolution that they will accept via VGA.

My Toshiba Regza ia a 1920 x 1080 TV and can happily accept that resolution via HDMI but it wont accept anything higher than 1024 x 768 (XGA), it wont accept 1368 x 768 which is WXGA let alone anything higher.

[ianforest]

Im sure I couldnt go out now and buy a mac book pro, plonk some DJing software on it and thats it....Done !
I wouldnt have to change a single performance setting ?
Not a single one.

I got my Macbook Pro, took it out of the box, put Serato Scratch Live on it, connected it to my SL1, connected it to my HC4500 and went out to do a gig...didn't touch any settings. And it worked just fine and dandy.

A Windows-PC would require a bit more setup than that, but would probably be just as reliable.

[DJ Jules]

VGA is far easier to send over longer distances. HDMI can be very troublesome.

:agree:

The best bet is convert VGA to composite, run it into a switch box with your CD+G player and the run composite into a dedicated input (or a SCART adaptor) on your TV. The composite signal is pretty robust, the cable is cheap (as it only requires two wires) and it can easily be run over distance.

Julian

[Sarah]

At the moment I'm still using my scart lead from the C.D+G players and hdmi from the laptop.

I'm just changing the source mode on the tele with the remote.

I don't envisage having to use the C.D+G players too much now and hope to eventually phase them out once I get virtually confident and can afford further virtual back up.

If I do find this a pain and troublesome in a gig environment I'll revert to the V.G.A and switchbox route.

Thank you all for your help

Sarah x