Nochex Users - WARNING! EDIT....not only Nochex users affected!

[Corabar Entertainment]

I have had a very hairy few days, which still isn't sorted and is going to mean an AWFUL lot of work in the coming days / weeks, but this is something that anyone else using Nochex to take payments needs to be made aware of.

After many years without any problems whatsoever, Nochex Risk Team have decided that there should be no more than 1 month between payment and final delivery of goods - meaning that if you take deposits for events, you are likely to fall foul of their risk assessment.

Without any warning whatsoever, due to 'a random assessment' we had our account locked and couldn't withdraw any funds from our Nochex account last week (nevermind the fact they already hold a substantial retention!). Of course, sods law, we had a really busy week with lots of payments made and they ended up holding about 10 times MORE in retention than would be needed in the event of every client that fell outside their criteria raising a chargeback!

What's more, even though I had been contacted my the risk assessment team about the payments received, we were in correspondence back and forth to discuss how we work, etc and at no time did they even have the courtesy to tell me that they had locked down the account, so more and more payments were going in. It was only when I went in to try and withdraw funds that I discovered that they had frozen the funds!

After a hard-fought battle, I have managed to get the funds unlocked (it was only after I pointed out that it must be illegal for them to hold monies that couldn't be subject to a charge back, and have asked for details of their complaints procedure and confirmation of their regulatory body to be emailed to me). HOWEVER they have confirmed that they are looking at accounts and will get around to everybody in time.

So, this means that anyone in the weddings/events industry, or anyone that delivers any sort of contract over any period of time will be completely scuppered!

I wanted to post this to save anyone else going through what I have. So, you have been warned! Please pass this info on / post everywhere you possibly can so that word gets around.

[Shaun]

I'm glad to hear you got the funds unlocked. Sounds like an awful situation.

[CRAZY K]

I have had a very hairy few days, which still isn't sorted and is going to mean an AWFUL lot of work in the coming days / weeks, but this is something that anyone else using Nochex to take payments needs to be made aware of.

After many years without any problems whatsoever, Nochex Risk Team have decided that there should be no more than 1 month between payment and final delivery of goods - meaning that if you take deposits for events, you are likely to fall foul of their risk assessment.

Without any warning whatsoever, due to 'a random assessment' we had our account locked and couldn't withdraw any funds from our Nochex account last week (nevermind the fact they already hold a substantial retention!). Of course, sods law, we had a really busy week with lots of payments made and they ended up holding about 10 times MORE in retention than would be needed in the event of every client that fell outside their criteria raising a chargeback!

What's more, even though I had been contacted my the risk assessment team about the payments received, we were in correspondence back and forth to discuss how we work, etc and at no time did they even have the courtesy to tell me that they had locked down the account, so more and more payments were going in. It was only when I went in to try and withdraw funds that I discovered that they had frozen the funds!

After a hard-fought battle, I have managed to get the funds unlocked (it was only after I pointed out that it must be illegal for them to hold monies that couldn't be subject to a charge back, and have asked for details of their complaints procedure and confirmation of their regulatory body to be emailed to me). HOWEVER they have confirmed that they are looking at accounts and will get around to everybody in time.

So, this means that anyone in the weddings/events industry, or anyone that delivers any sort of contract over any period of time will be completely scuppered!

I wanted to post this to save anyone else going through what I have. So, you have been warned! Please pass this info on / post everywhere you possibly can so that word gets around.

Sorry to hear this--good job you know how to play Hardball Angela;)

How weird after all this time:confused:

Is it back to Barclays:eek:

[Corabar Entertainment]

I'm glad to hear you got the funds unlocked. Sounds like an awful situation.Thanks, Shaun. It's a complete pain in the backside. Short-term, I'm using Paypal for everything, but I'll now re-write website / contracts / documents / email templates so that it's Paypal for the deposits, then Nochex for the balances.

Long-term, it's going to be a new card processor, but so far, I've left call-back requests for two companies that have been recommended to me (one on Thursday evening and one of Friday) and both have failed to call as yet! ....so this might be a long process :(


Sorry to hear this--good job you know how to play Hardball Angela;) Yep - playing nice got me nowhere.


How weird after all this time:confused: Agreed.


Is it back to Barclays:eek:This is a card processor, Alan, not our Bank (and we've never been with Barclays :confused: )

[SC Events]

Sorry to hear this--good job you know how to play Hardball Angela;)

I'm sure they gave Angela a jolly good listening to lol! :D

[Corabar Entertainment]

:lol:

[Vectis]

Short-term, I'm using Paypal for everything

Have you spoken to PayPal to ensure that the same restriction does not apply?

[SoundONE]

Both Paypal and Nochex have a habit of locking user accounts, happend to me over 2 years ago with nochex with almost £3,000 in the account and I have also had similar with Paypal with over £2,000.

Seems if you put a lot of money through them they will freeze accounts to make you call, email etc, trying to justify to themselves you are real a business and not some type of gangster or organised criminal.

Nochex claimed it was an error and took over 4 weeks to sort out before it was unlocked, I withdrew the money and closed the account.

Paypal again couldn't provide a reason the account was frozen, it's rediculous that they are able to do this, imagine going into your high street bank to get out your money and they say they have frozen your account but have no idea why. Then ask you a load of irrelivent questions then say sorry it was an error.

Both Paypal and Nochex make it very hard to contact someone with any common sence that you can talk with to resolve it, my advice to anyone is once you have a few hundred in you account get it out, I have heard of Paypal holding funds for upto 6 months on various forums.

What annoys me more than anything is both paypal and nochex used to pay me £5.00 for each new signup when they were first starting out, I must have made them thousands and thousands via spinofff signups and users. Now they have a name and hundreds of thousands of loyal users they don't care an inch for the people who helped get them started or any of there customers for that matter.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Have you spoken to PayPal to ensure that the same restriction does not apply?

No, I haven't, Martin.... why? Do you know something we don't? :eek:

I just switched over the payment gateway to point to Paypal so that money didn't keep going in to a frozen account.... and I'm bouncing it out again so quick you'd swear it was rubber!

I have no intention of staying with Paypal, and in the short-term (once I get the paperwork amended), the plan is to take the deposit by Paypal and the final payment by Nochex.

The worst thing is, apparently it's not against Nochex T&Cs, it's purely on risk assessment and something they've recently decided!

[Vectis]

No, I haven't, Martin.... why? Do you know something we don't? :eek:

No... I just wondered if you'd double-checked before switching across :)

[Corabar Entertainment]

No... I just wondered if you'd double-checked before switching across :)
OK. :)

TBH, I'd be surprised if Paypal cared about this given the way they work. They don't hold a retention and just take any charge backs straight from the bank account, and if I just use it for the deposits, then the figures involved won't be ridiculously high in any event.

Of course, the fees are higher, which is why I don't want to use it for the lot.

[CRAZY K]

Yep - playing nice got me nowhere.


This is a card processor, Alan, not our Bank (and we've never been with Barclays :confused: )

Sad world where you have to be nasty to get anywhere these days--:(

I thought Nochex was a complete system to be used for card payments including a banking facility instead of say Barclays who offered me a system of card payments into Bank.

My misunderstanding.

I was inferring generically regarding High Street Banks being used rather than other organisations like Paypal.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Well, this looks like it might be a major stumbling block and affect us all: I've just got off the phone with another provider that I know some of you use - Cardsave.

They, too, have told me that they will not take on any customer where there is a delay between an initial payment and the final delivery of a product or service.

It looks like it's something that they've all suddenly decided is now a risk!

This could be a MAJOR, MAJOR problem affecting many of us! :eek: :eek: :eek:

[theoloyla]

So what about airlines and holiday companies?

[Corabar Entertainment]

Exactly - Theo!

There are so many industries that rely on card payments long in advance of the final delivery of service / product! This is absolutely stupid!

The rep I spoke to stated that it was the parent provider's ruling - Streamline, and even said to me that even if a huge company like DFS came to them and asked to sign up, "they wouldn't touch them with a barge pole" because they take a down payment for their made-to-order furniture.

This is just an unbelievable and ridiculous situation, I can't believe that it's happening!

[Corabar Entertainment]

...this is getting really silly now!

I've just had a call from my local Cardsave rep. The rep at the call centre didn't think that what she had been told by her line manager seemed right and that they should be able to help us, and so she put through a request to the local rep anyway to see what he thought.

He's just gone through a few questions over the phone and has said that he has discretion and from what he's heard so far, taking a deposit in our line of work is fully justified and shouldn't be a problem.

I've now got a proper meeting lined up with him next week!

[CRAZY K]

...this is getting really silly now!

I've just had a call from my local Cardsave rep. The rep at the call centre didn't think that what she had been told by her line manager seemed right and that they should be able to help us, and so she put through a request to the local rep anyway to see what he thought.



Fingers crossed--

Another case of not being a yes man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Corabar Entertainment]

:agree:

[Corabar Entertainment]

I was just reading something in a business newsletter I regularly receive that had a link to an article about a big shape up being on the cards for consumer legislation.

Buried in the middle of this little article in one line, which I think is the cause of the knee-jerk reaction from payment processors, namely:
Retailers will also be expected to deliver items within 30 days.Although it's obviously nonsense, as we are 'retailers' selling a product, my guess is it is this which has caused payment processors to react in the way they have.

It's an interesting article and details more changes that will be coming in for anyone taking card payments - although more investigation will be required to check the small print to make sure you comply with the new regulations (including when it's likely to come in to force!)

Have a full read of the article here: Credit card surcharges & premium-rate phone lines set to go in consumer rights revolution (http://www.bmmagazine.co.uk/news/9605/credit-card-surcharges-premium-rate-phone-lines-go-in-consumer-rights-revolution/)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Anyone who calls a firm to discuss an existing order must be allowed to use a basic-rate phone line. The move will put an end to the practice of companies charging premium prices for complaint hotlines and ripping them off twice over.

I like the idea of that!


Any online retailer who charges customers a credit card charge after they have filled in their details will be banned from doing so in new plans for a shake up in consumer rights

I am reading that in the respect that they can still charge a fee for the client using a credit card as long as the client knows about it before they fill in paperwork.

Or not?

[Corabar Entertainment]

I am reading that in the respect that they can still charge a fee for the client using a credit card as long as the client knows about it before they fill in paperwork.

Or not?That's certainly the way that section reads in that article: although the headline reads differently. Plus, another article I've read since was pretty ambiguous too.

The thing is, it's all a bit of guess-work going on, because it's only proposals / consultations / investigations at the moment. We'll need to keep an eye out for when the actual legislation is published so that we can look at the wording of that before we'll know the true implications.

[mattydinx]

Figured I'd resurrect this thread rather than starting a new one.

Angela, did you ever go forward with CardSave, or have any further involvement with them? - I've just had a meeting with one of their reps, explained that I took booking fees however nothing was said about delivering my service within a month...

I was offered the following;

No setup fee (taking approx 10 days to setup)
Mobile Terminal - Take the machine to the client.
Terminal rental at £25+ VAT/month (12-month contract)
35p per debit card transaction
2% per credit card transaction

Going to see what Lloyds can offer me tomorrow.

Anyone else using CardSave or are there better alternatives?