ProDub Licence Question

[Jem]

I'm still in the process of getting everything together for setting my Daughter up in the mobile DJ business. I really want to try and do things right (as I always did back in the 70's ;)) and I have an area of confusion relating to the ProDub licence which I hope someone here can help me with...

The vast majority of our music library is downloaded from iTunes, which is now backed up in iCloud. However, I have, over a period of time, ripped some music from our old CD's, this probably totals around 450 tracks.

As I understand it I would need a ProDub Licence to cover the ripping of these tracks (pretty expensive at £212.77 for the first year), I also understand that provided I do not rip any more music from CD's I would not need a ProDub licence in subsequent years.

Problem is that when I look at the ProDub FAQ's and their website it states that they are working with the industry to get venues to ask DJ's for their licence in order that they may be covered to play at the venue. If I don't need a licence how can I prove that to the venue who'll probably just think I can't be bothered to buy one and am therefore unlicenced.

Is this really a problem?, has anyone ever been asked for their licence by a venue?, am I worrying about nothing?

Taking this further, i've actually looked at the tracks i've ripped from CD and there's probably only about 200 that we are ever likely to play at a function. This therefore begs the question would I be better off just deleting the ripped tracks and redownloading them from iTunes. This would work out cheaper than buying a licence, and I could honestly say that all my tracks were downloaded.

As i've already mentioned, all music is backed up in the iCloud, so that covers the backups. I'm sure I read somewhere that part of the iCloud subscription covers licence fees, anyway, I digress.

I suppose I really want to know the likelyhood of being asked for a ProDub licence by a venue, and also how you would prove that you only use legitimately downloaded tracks to the venue?

Apologies for the ramble :rolleyes: :D

Jem

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

The likelyhood of you being asked is very very small and even if you are asked they can't start looking at your Mp3s/laptop or drive.

If you wanted to be truly legal, I would go with your suggestion of downloading the tracks.

[DJDC]

it is all very confusing I have one as i transferred my cd collection over, iv'e been asked about it twice this year by venues (hotels) one venue said they had been visited 3 times over the last 18 months. If you just download it is far easier but you might find that some download sites may have something in the terms and conditions about intended use?

[discomobiledj]

Also, going slightly off topic, don't just rely on iTunes for your downloads, Amazon are cheap and also 7Digital.

[leelive]

Also, going slightly off topic, don't just rely on iTunes for your downloads, Amazon are cheap and also 7Digital.

Aye. .... and the .wav files from the Broadchart database are only 55p each (based on a 12month sub)
Lee

[Corabar Entertainment]

Aye. .... and the .wav files from the Broadchart database are only 55p each (based on a 12month sub)
Lee

I am really getting a bit fed up with people who use that subscription saying that. Tell it how it is.... it's a £60 a month 12-month subscription service (ie £720).

We don't need to put the marketing slant on it when we're talking amongst ourselves, do we?

[djdj]

CHEAP Is not always good
I Tunes
(i) You shall be authorised to use iTunes Products only for personal, noncommercial use. For details of your rights and restrictions on your rights to use the iTunes Products,
AMAZON
Upon your payment of our fees for Digital Content, we grant you a non-exclusive, non-transferable right to use the Digital Content for your personal, non-commercial, entertainment use,


Be careful! ;)

[Corabar Entertainment]

Ever read the small print on the back of a CD?

[Jem]

CHEAP Is not always good
I Tunes
(i) You shall be authorised to use iTunes Products only for personal, noncommercial use. For details of your rights and restrictions on your rights to use the iTunes Products,
AMAZON
Upon your payment of our fees for Digital Content, we grant you a non-exclusive, non-transferable right to use the Digital Content for your personal, non-commercial, entertainment use,


Be careful! ;)

Yes, but doesn't the same apply to purchased CD's if you read the terms and conditions?.. ie, non-commercial use only.

I thought that was the reason that *venues* had to have a PRS/PPL licence, so that your were covered, and the royalties are included in those fees to reimburse the musicians etc for the commercial use of their product.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Yes, but doesn't the same apply to purchased CD's if you read the terms and conditions?.. ie, non-commercial use only.

I thought that was the reason that *venues* had to have a PRS/PPL licence, so that your were covered, and the royalties are included in those fees to reimburse the musicians etc for the commercial use of their product.

:thumbsup:

[DazzyD]

Ever read the small print on the back of a CD?

Beat me to it!!

Pretty much all of the CDs, vinyl, whatever have exactly the same copyright conditions on them. If we keep it simple, as long as the venue has a Public Performance Licence (PPL) (and possibly MCPS - I've got a headache and can't think clearly at the moment!) then you're covered.

I really wouldn't worry about the small print on iTunes and Amazon. And there's really no need to start scaremongering about it.

[djdj]

Not scaremongering Just pointing out the small print!
Mastermix does not have the same restrictions on it's site!

[DazzyD]

Yes, but doesn't the same apply to purchased CD's if you read the terms and conditions?.. ie, non-commercial use only.

I thought that was the reason that *venues* had to have a PRS/PPL licence, so that your were covered, and the royalties are included in those fees to reimburse the musicians etc for the commercial use of their product.


:thumbsup:

Have just noticed these two posts! I think Jem is right. It's actually the PRS licence I was trying to think of. Told you I had a bad headache!!!

djdj - I think the reason that MM uses different T&Cs is that their service is aimed directly at DJs and people involved in the music industry. It would be a bit pointless putting in the "non-commercial use only" clause as their customers are purely commercial!

[DJDC]

There was a thread about a similar subject on a different forum some time ago, if your paying royalties to a company for a download you could assume that it is little different to buying a CD as your paying royalties, and as suggested most venues would be licenced for music PRS / MCPS? with mastermix / CD Pool etc the music is licenced by them both, royalties are paid.

You could argue why buy a produb when you've paid to buy a CD but now want to play it from a version saved to a harddrive, and the CD is stored in the loft. I decided right or wrong it was worth having to avoid any arguements in the future.

Many argue still argue about the need for PAT, PLI, even risk assessments or method statements. I know of 1 or 2 venues in the West Mids that now ask for produb, admittedly they don't necessarily know what the requirements are, and one venue potentially insisting on it based on a discussion with their resident DJ. I've also seen the number of booking enquiries i've had where DJ's have not had the right paperwork whether it be PAT, PLI or other on the increase, I've had at least 6 enquiries in the last 2 months alone.