Sound quality. Is there anything I could have done!

[MikeW]

Hi everyone.

I am very happy with my sound system at the moment. I use QSC K12 speakers and a Denon MC6000 mixer via virtual DJ. Also a RCF bass bin, but not last night.

Anyway, I was at a village hall last night. It was your typical village hall with high ceilings etc, except this had the main part of the hall, and down the bottom end was like a seperate room but still open to the main room if you see what I mean.

It was an open night, but not very busy (that is possibly an understatement!) everyone was sitting down the bottom end of the hall.

As usual I was out asking if people were happy enough with the music and there was a table of four people, and one of the guys said that the sound quality was not really that good. I said it was the acoustics and that most village halls are the same.

I just left it at that, but later on I was over talking to them again, and the guy said that I had asked him if everthing was ok, and that I should have taken his comments on board. I told him I was happy to accept what he was saying but there really wasn't anything I could do. I did make one suggestion which was to come into the main part of the hall (the sound was really pretty good in the main part of the hall). He did not want to take me up on my offer!

After that I did change the setting on the speakers from deep to normal (less bass) not sure if it helped or not.

Just wanted to know if there was anyting else I could have done/what would you have done?

Thanks for reading.

Mike

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I'd say no, you couldn't have done anything else.
At the end of the day, YOU know YOUR sound better than anyone else and I'd say with 100% confidence better than someone who more than likely was just sat there and looking for something to moan about.
You took the time to go out and ask the guests if they were happy and fair play to you. Not everyone would do that. YOU have the experience of going to different venues and you also explained the reason why the sound could possibly sound not so good to the customer. If he didn't take the offer up then it's his problem.
If you hadn't of gone out and mingled and asked questions, you wouldn't know any different would you?

I don't think it's worth another thought personally. Just my opinion.

[MikeW]

I'd say no, you couldn't have done anything else.
At the end of the day, YOU know YOUR sound better than anyone else and I'd say with 100% confidence better than someone who more than likely was just sat there and looking for something to moan about.
You took the time to go out and ask the guests if they were happy and fair play to you. Not everyone would do that. YOU have the experience of going to different venues and you also explained the reason why the sound could possibly sound not so good to the customer. If he didn't take the offer up then it's his problem.
If you hadn't of gone out and mingled and asked questions, you wouldn't know any different would you?

I don't think it's worth another thought personally. Just my opinion.

Thanks for that. I thought the same but really just wanted a second opinion. I have had a couple of slight issues with sound in the past, but those have all been resolved, and I can say that I am 100% happy with my system the way it is. And I know that it sounds very good in all venues, except possibly village halls! :)

[funkymook]

Did he expand on the sound quality issue?
What didn't he like about it?

[TONYTIGER]

I agree some of these halls can be tricky to get a good sound especially if there are not many people there,i use the same QSC system as you,my tip is not to put your speakers to high of the ground as they just go over peoples head and reverberate of all the hard surfaces with this model i use the tilt option on the pole mount to try to get the sound reflected down there's nothing better than people or even soft furnishings to get a warmer sound.But you handled the situation perfect in my book.

[Daryll]

Very difficult to judge in some places.
What sounds good in a empty hall , sounds different in a half full hall , and totally different to a full dance floor.
If I get the chance to go on the floor during a gig I will , and tweak accordingly.

Daryll

[Kernow]

If everybody was at the far end of the room, it's just possible that, for them, the overall volume was too high ?
When that happens it can be beneficial to reduce the level significantly and try to entice them nearer to you. Those who want to hear what you're playing will normally do so. If you try that, and they stay rooted, it usually indicates that they're not really interested in any music, and therefore no reflection on your efforts.
In some circumstances, attempting to be louder to reach a remote audience can often have the reverse effect and drive them still further away ?

[leelive]

I had a similar problem in a mis-shapped room several years ago.
I invested in a dbx driverack and have not had the problem since then.
I too use QSC k12s (but with Ksubs)
It has been really great. No issues any more with muddy sound at the back of halls with extra-large ceilings etc.
There are several threads on the advantages of the dbx driverack - worth looking into.
As a singer I felt buying one was justified as I couldn't risk struggling to perform against the dynamics of an odd shaped room.
Lee

[CRAZY K]

Hi everyone.

I am very happy with my sound system at the moment. I use QSC K12 speakers and a Denon MC6000 mixer via virtual DJ. Also a RCF bass bin, but not last night.

Anyway, I was at a village hall last night. It was your typical village hall with high ceilings etc, except this had the main part of the hall, and down the bottom end was like a seperate room but still open to the main room if you see what I mean.

It was an open night, but not very busy (that is possibly an understatement!) everyone was sitting down the bottom end of the hall.

As usual I was out asking if people were happy enough with the music and there was a table of four people, and one of the guys said that the sound quality was not really that good. I said it was the acoustics and that most village halls are the same.

I just left it at that, but later on I was over talking to them again, and the guy said that I had asked him if everthing was ok, and that I should have taken his comments on board. I told him I was happy to accept what he was saying but there really wasn't anything I could do. I did make one suggestion which was to come into the main part of the hall (the sound was really pretty good in the main part of the hall). He did not want to take me up on my offer!

After that I did change the setting on the speakers from deep to normal (less bass) not sure if it helped or not.

Just wanted to know if there was anyting else I could have done/what would you have done?

Thanks for reading.

Mike

Very long distance to back of hall and high ceiling --not good.

My only comment would be is it worth taking your sub and having it ready just in case?

I obviously dont know if that would help but I guess you dont know unless you try, you can confirm you are using top brand products so if they dont work forget it!

Just to cheer you up unfortunately even the experts get it wrong.

I worked with a Bluegrass Band over the Jubilee and they were happy for me to go through their PA---they INSISTED--it was an EV so I thought bonus time.:beer1:

No I was wrong--it sounded rubbish to my practised ear--no middle--no PUNCH:daft:

Did the gig fine but kept having to ask the guy who booked me to turn everything up as the sound was lacking in bass and vitality.

It went fine but I knew the sound was not as punchy as my Peavey Pro 15s sitting in my car.(Yes I do take my own kit as well)

Afterwards the really nice booker explained he was a recording sound engineer and had spent all afternoon setting up the pa to reduce feedback to zero by using the 12 band graphic equaliser--what he also did was to make everything way too flat and dead sound wise--no life in it.

He also seemed to have forgotten a room or marquee sounds considerably different empty to a full one:daft:

One thing to consider--ONE person complained--who knows if he had a hearing problem--I do find this regularly with people of my age--older citizens--:rolleyes: often complaining ---

WE CANT HEAR WHAT YOU SAY--they may have loss of hearing and many have tinitus as well --eek!!!!

I have to point out with embarrassment that the other 60 people on the Dance Floor are following my instructions perfectly.

Certainly enhanced gizmos as Lee suggests might be worthwhile although for him voice quality is the the number one priority so getting that right is vital--for a DJ maybe not--as you say dodgy halls can be a problem and I am not knocking modern 12inch speakers but I am comfortable with 15s on their own without subs anywhere--im taking my Peavey UL15s to my Friday gig as there is a question mark over the hall, number of people etc--I reckon they will cope no problem--

Venues with a low ceiling followed by a higher ceiling half way down the hall are probably the worst --after a gymnasium:mad:

Lack of carpets, curtains and absorbent surfaces including dancers are also very bad factors.
HTH

[MikeW]

Did he expand on the sound quality issue?
What didn't he like about it?
He did expand on the sound quality issue. His comments were that he was having a problem hearing the vocals, all he could hear was the bass! As I said earlier I did turn the deep bass off on the K12s but this did not seem to help much although from where I was even with the bass off they still sounded very good.

I agree some of these halls can be tricky to get a good sound especially if there are not many people there,i use the same QSC system as you,my tip is not to put your speakers to high of the ground as they just go over peoples head and reverberate of all the hard surfaces with this model i use the tilt option on the pole mount to try to get the sound reflected down there's nothing better than people or even soft furnishings to get a warmer sound.But you handled the situation perfect in my book.
Thanks very much. I was on a small stage and did not have the speakers raised on the stands, although I should possibly have tried pointing them down.

Very difficult to judge in some places.
What sounds good in a empty hall , sounds different in a half full hall , and totally different to a full dance floor.
If I get the chance to go on the floor during a gig I will , and tweak accordingly.

Daryll
This was certainly an empty hall last night :)

If everybody was at the far end of the room, it's just possible that, for them, the overall volume was too high ?
When that happens it can be beneficial to reduce the level significantly and try to entice them nearer to you. Those who want to hear what you're playing will normally do so. If you try that, and they stay rooted, it usually indicates that they're not really interested in any music, and therefore no reflection on your efforts.
In some circumstances, attempting to be louder to reach a remote audience can often have the reverse effect and drive them still further away ?
I was not really playing that loud to be honest. The guy did say that they were there for the banter as well as the music which I totally understand, so there was no way they were going to move closer to the disco

I had a similar problem in a mis-shapped room several years ago.
I invested in a dbx driverack and have not had the problem since then.
I too use QSC k12s (but with Ksubs)
It has been really great. No issues any more with muddy sound at the back of halls with extra-large ceilings etc.
There are several threads on the advantages of the dbx driverack - worth looking into.
As a singer I felt buying one was justified as I couldn't risk struggling to perform against the dynamics of an odd shaped room.
Lee
Thanks Lee. I only do village halls about twice a year (and this might be reduced by two after last night!) and as the sound is very good in nearly all other venues I am happy running the way I am at the moment.

Very long distance to back of hall and high ceiling --not good.

My only comment would be is it worth taking your sub and having it ready just in case?

I obviously dont know if that would help but I guess you dont know unless you try, you can confirm you are using top brand products so if they dont work forget it!

Just to cheer you up unfortunately even the experts get it wrong.

I worked with a Bluegrass Band over the Jubilee and they were happy for me to go through their PA---they INSISTED--it was an EV so I thought bonus time.:beer1:

No I was wrong--it sounded rubbish to my practised ear--no middle--no PUNCH:daft:

Did the gig fine but kept having to ask the guy who booked me to turn everything up as the sound was lacking in bass and vitality.

It went fine but I knew the sound was not as punchy as my Peavey Pro 15s sitting in my car.(Yes I do take my own kit as well)

Afterwards the really nice booker explained he was a recording sound engineer and had spent all afternoon setting up the pa to reduce feedback to zero by using the 12 band graphic equaliser--what he also did was to make everything way too flat and dead sound wise--no life in it.

He also seemed to have forgotten a room or marquee sounds considerably different empty to a full one:daft:

One thing to consider--ONE person complained--who knows if he had a hearing problem--I do find this regularly with people of my age--older citizens--:rolleyes: often complaining ---

WE CANT HEAR WHAT YOU SAY--they may have loss of hearing and many have tinitus as well --eek!!!!

I have to point out with embarrassment that the other 60 people on the Dance Floor are following my instructions perfectly.

Certainly enhanced gizmos as Lee suggests might be worthwhile although for him voice quality is the the number one priority so getting that right is vital--for a DJ maybe not--as you say dodgy halls can be a problem and I am not knocking modern 12inch speakers but I am comfortable with 15s on their own without subs anywhere--im taking my Peavey UL15s to my Friday gig as there is a question mark over the hall, number of people etc--I reckon they will cope no problem--

Venues with a low ceiling followed by a higher ceiling half way down the hall are probably the worst --after a gymnasium:mad:

Lack of carpets, curtains and absorbent surfaces including dancers are also very bad factors.
HTH

One of the guys did actually have a hearing aid which might explain part of the problem!

[CRAZY K]

One of the guys did actually have a hearing aid which might explain part of the problem!

There you go:rolleyes:

[MikeW]

There you go:rolleyes:

Although he wasn't the one complaining!