'Fair Use' proposed for the UK - but not for DJs

[Corabar Entertainment]

The Govt have announced proposals to change the law to allow greater freedom for consumers, and other sections of the society to allow such things as format shifting, but the proposals do not propose to extend these rights to businesses, so will not be of any benefit to DJs.

Read more here:- http://www.bmmagazine.co.uk/news/13740/consumers-given-more-copyright-freedom/

[TONYTIGER]

Very interesting reading Angela,sorry if i am being a bit thick does that mean the client can provide the music for there own function,the mind boggles .:confused:

[Corabar Entertainment]

Good point, Tony.

We won't know exactly what's what until the full legislation is drafted, but I'd say that there's probably a good argument that they'll be able to supply you with their own tracks on CD-R or USB (ripped from CD), etc, without it being illegal. However, you'd still have the problem of where they got the music from in the first place!

[Corabar Entertainment]

...or were you talking about DIY functions?

TBH, this proposal is doing little more than regulating the current position where they've already said that they wouldn't take any legal action against private individuals for format-shifting their own music collection - even though it's technically against the law.

[lazersounds]

I imagine it will have a clause where it can not be used for public performance, but knowing this goverment it will be full of loopholes :D

My personal belief is that the music companies should be paying us to play music, espically promo stuff as I often get asked what the name of a song was, then they download it on itunes! Double income, one from me for my license, one from the punter who brought the track becuase he heard it and liked it. Still I could go on for pages about this but thats another story :)

[Corabar Entertainment]

I imagine it will have a clause where it can not be used for public performance, but knowing this goverment it will be full of loopholes :D...and a private party isn't a public performance!

There aren't any proposals to extent the fair use to commercail ventures though (eg: Us)

[TONYTIGER]

...or were you talking about DIY functions?

TBH, this proposal is doing little more than regulating the current position where they've already said that they wouldn't take any legal action against private individuals for format-shifting their own music collection - even though it's technically against the law.

Not really,for the first time this year i have had clients send or give me on the day there complete playlist on a portable device,i currently do not use a laptop for dj use and buy music online directly to my portable hard drive which i use for play out and original cd,s so i do not need a pd licence and just concerned if the above scenario happens i would be in breach of my disclaimer,god i do miss 7" vinyl so uncomplicated in the early years.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Not really,for the first time this year i have had clients send or give me on the day there complete playlist on a portable device,i currently do not use a laptop for dj use and buy music online directly to my portable hard drive which i use for play out and original cd,s so i do not need a pd licence and just concerned if the above scenario happens i would be in breach of my disclaimer,god i do miss 7" vinyl so uncomplicated in the early years.Sorry - I'm tired today, but I'm not sure what you're getting at here / your point / relevance to the proposed changes to legislation... and what disclaimer? :confused:

[TONYTIGER]

Sorry - I'm tired today, but I'm not sure what you're getting at here / your point / relevance to the proposed changes to legislation... and what disclaimer? :confused:

Just the standard Pro dub disclaimer stating i am exempt from needing one.

[Excalibur]

I'm sure I'm having deja vu over this, cos I'll swear I'd already seen Tony's reply ages ago. :daft:

Anyhow, enough of this. Angela, what I think Tony's getting at is that he circumvents Produb by only downloading direct to the playout device. I think his concern now is that if a guest gives him some music, or even a complete play list, he will then be in breach of this clause, and be liable for the cost of a Produb licence, which he has so far managed to avoid.

I'm not sure whether this would be the case, because I'm afraid I can't even manage to get my head round this at all. So far I seem to have managed to understand the intricacies of the licence to my own satisfaction, but this has me beat. Sorry.

[Vectis]

what I think Tony's getting at is that he circumvents Produb by only downloading direct to the playout device. I think his concern now is that if a guest gives him some music, or even a complete play list, he will then be in breach of this clause, and be liable for the cost of a Produb licence, which he has so far managed to avoid.

My understanding would be that if the guest provided the music in a "useable" format - ie no format shifting required in order to use it - then ProDub wouldn't apply.

However if the guest handed over a memory stick full of .m4a's (for example) but the playout requires mp3 and therefore a format shift, then ProDub would govern this. If the guest were to do the conversion beforehand, however...

[Excalibur]

My understanding would be that if the guest provided the music in a "useable" format - ie no format shifting required in order to use it - then ProDub wouldn't apply.

Agreed. But isn't that exactly what we digital DJ's do already? Convert it. As far as I can see, the only way Tony would be clear is if the client had a Produb licence, or had done the same as Tony, ie downloaded straight to playout device.

However, if the client dispensed with Tony's services as a DJ, and merely hired the PA and lights, then none of this applies, as it's a private individual hosting a private party, and exempt from everything.

I'm leaving this for now, as my brain's beginning to hurt.

[Vectis]

As far as I can see, the only way Tony would be clear is if the client had a Produb licence

I don't see how the guest's compliance with the law is any concern of Tony's? If the client hands over an mp3 and Tony has the wherewithal to play an mp3, then job done. If said mp3 was obtained or converted illegally, that's not Tony's problem. However if the client hands over an m4a (for example) and Tony can only play mp3 (for example), that's when it becomes an issue.

It all boils down to WHO does the manipulation (if any) - client = not the DJs concern; DJ = ProDub's concern

(I am, of course, assuming all of the above is in relation to a private party in a correctly-licensed venue).

[Excalibur]

It all boils down to WHO does the manipulation (if any) - client = not the DJs concern; DJ = ProDub's concern

(I am, of course, assuming all of the above is in relation to a private party in a correctly-licensed venue).

I understand the basis of your argument Vectis, no problem. Only thing is, I'm not sure it's correct. Let's take this to extremes, Tony's doing a gig, and he has no music of his own there at all. All he plays are are mp3's ( again taken as an example ) provided for him by punters on USB sticks, phones and ipods. That must contravene something", even though I've got no idea what. :confused::daft::confused:



*And if it doesn't, it certainly ought to do. What if everything Tony played was copied, or otherwise pirated? He can't tell, and has no obligation to check ( has he? ). Just cos it isn't his, is he fireproof? This is a veritable minefield.

[TONYTIGER]

Thanks Martin quite clear in my mind now.











www.tonyjamesdisco.co.uk

[Vectis]

That must contravene something", even though I've got no idea what. :confused::daft::confused:


Well I guess that, technically, the DJ might be implicated in handling stolen property if a) the music was illegally obtained (by others) and b) he is playing for payment - but I consider this extremely unlikely ... especially seeing as in the vast majority of cases "the music" is actually only a licence to use in any case and therefore not a physical thing which can be bought and sold. Very little music (I'd proffer none in the case of a typical mobile DJ) is actually owned by the people who pay for it.

[mattydj50]

Easy solution. If it isn't mine, I don't play it.