Versatility, adaptability, evolution and assimilation.

[Excalibur]

Or to put it another way, just another gig in the life of a terminally befuddled Old Git. ( Actually, I'm fibbing already, it's really down to a string of gigs. )

Right, let's deal with the last one first. It sort of makes sense. Assimilation. Two things about this forum I will be eternally grateful for are the new and valued friends I've made here, and the knowledge they've shared with me. I recently helped Andy Neen ( Deltic ) at a gig in an army garrison, and saw his very carefully planned rig in action. His solution to the problems of carrying in excessive amounts of kit, yet still being capable of coping with providing facilities to other performers was a revelation. Brilliant. I won't steal the lad's thunder by giving away his secrets, but it's really really clever. And it prompted me to do what I've been threatening to do for ages to create my solution to the problem. So, while I'm not following his methods slavishly, ( mainly because it would involve me spending money on different kit, and taking one step further than I'm prepared to technology wise ) I am assimilating some of his ideas into my rig. There you go, last one first.

The next three probably all come under the same umbrella somewhere. In the old days, you never considered being able to offer anything other than a microphone on a short cable to another performer or person there. Nowadays, it's often expected of us ( rightly or wrongly. That's a debate we've had many many times, and it's not the main point here, so let's not go into it too deeply. ) so some of us have started to build out kit with this in mind. I recently had a Roly PolyGram hand me her music on the inevitable CD, which promptly refused to play on my laptop, so she had to make do with whatever I could provide. She did say that she had it on an ipod, but hadn't brought it. One of my mixers has a dedicated Ipod input, so that would have been better. I suggested that she get it put onto an USB stick, since that would suit many more DJ's than CD's do. ( Logically, she ought to bring both versions, of course. )

If I'd been using the other mixer though, I'd have struggled, since my Cortex is plumbed in internally, and the only external sockets are for my laptop. Thus, I have decided to remove both Cortexes from the cases, and run a second laptop in their place. I'll also fit one or two extra inputs for phones and ipods, which will be switchable in at a moment's notice.

The trusty optical drive offered by my DDS drive will stay, as I can justify it because of the hard drive at the other side of it. Only downside is that I won't have a Cortex to control it, but will have to use the second laptop, which won't be just as convenient. I reckon I can live with that.

So, as a general rule, I will have the facility to play CD's, plug in ipods, phones, or other similar kit ( eg Minidisc players. Or a guitar or keyboard. ) and offer use of one or perhaps two microphones without any FX on them. Thus, I reckon I shall be equipped for most common eventualities, without wheeling in the FOH mixer.

I hope I have provided you with some food for thought, and as soon as I've made any progress, it's likely that some piccies will appear in the gallery.

[Shaun]

The trusty optical drive offered by my DDS drive will stay, as I can justify it because of the hard drive at the other side of it. Only downside is that I won't have a Cortex to control it, but will have to use the second laptop, which won't be just as convenient. I reckon I can live with that.


What I really don't get though is that you're moving from your current system, to a system that is in your own words "less convenient", just so you have the facilities to provide more options for other entertainers etc. I would think convenience to you and your service should take precedence over convenience for other potential situations. Try as I might I really cannot get my head around that way of thinking (and I have tried..lol) Fair play to you though. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me (well....you already knew it wouldn't to me :d)

Anyway, best of luck. :)

[Excalibur]

What I really don't get though is that you're moving from your current system, to a system that is in your own words "less convenient"
Minor misunderstanding there I fear. The inconvenience is merely in playing the optical drive (for CD's ) through a laptop, rather than a Cortex. It's merely that I have to click the mouse and select another input, whereas the Cortex seems to react faster. It's a splitting of hairs, Shaun. Of little or no consequence. In every other way, I'll have more flexibility, in that the channels previously used by the Cortex ( with internal connections ) will now normally be used by the second laptop via external connections. One major reason for heading in this direction is that when doing Karaoke, I can dedicate one laptop to running Karaoke, while I run music on the main one. I tried that recently, and was delighted with the results.

That's why I've got a thread running asking for suggestions about cheap and simple controllers and soundcards. I need one for the second laptop.

Shaun, I've been down the all-in-one route, and it's a six and two threes. Less wires to worry about, but heavier cases and less options. Split 'em up and they're easier to carry, but need plugging in.

The main reason for having a Cortex in the playout case has disappeared. On so many occasions, I have loaded up the Cortex with a track on each side at the start of the gig, and they've still been untouched at the end. Time for a change. Don't worry Shaun, if I ever get the piccies up, all will become clear.

[Shaun]

Ahh, I see. Thanks for the clarification. :)

[deltic]

Or to put it another way, just another gig in the life of a terminally befuddled Old Git. ( Actually, I'm fibbing already, it's really down to a string of gigs. )

Right, let's deal with the last one first. It sort of makes sense. Assimilation. Two things about this forum I will be eternally grateful for are the new and valued friends I've made here, and the knowledge they've shared with me. I recently helped Andy Neen ( Deltic ) at a gig in an army garrison, and saw his very carefully planned rig in action. His solution to the problems of carrying in excessive amounts of kit, yet still being capable of coping with providing facilities to other performers was a revelation. Brilliant. I won't steal the lad's thunder by giving away his secrets, but it's really really clever. And it prompted me to do what I've been threatening to do for ages to create my solution to the problem. So, while I'm not following his methods slavishly, ( mainly because it would involve me spending money on different kit, and taking one step further than I'm prepared to technology wise ) I am assimilating some of his ideas into my rig. There you go, last one first.

The next three probably all come under the same umbrella somewhere. In the old days, you never considered being able to offer anything other than a microphone on a short cable to another performer or person there. Nowadays, it's often expected of us ( rightly or wrongly. That's a debate we've had many many times, and it's not the main point here, so let's not go into it too deeply. ) so some of us have started to build out kit with this in mind. I recently had a Roly PolyGram hand me her music on the inevitable CD, which promptly refused to play on my laptop, so she had to make do with whatever I could provide. She did say that she had it on an ipod, but hadn't brought it. One of my mixers has a dedicated Ipod input, so that would have been better. I suggested that she get it put onto an USB stick, since that would suit many more DJ's than CD's do. ( Logically, she ought to bring both versions, of course. )

If I'd been using the other mixer though, I'd have struggled, since my Cortex is plumbed in internally, and the only external sockets are for my laptop. Thus, I have decided to remove both Cortexes from the cases, and run a second laptop in their place. I'll also fit one or two extra inputs for phones and ipods, which will be switchable in at a moment's notice.

The trusty optical drive offered by my DDS drive will stay, as I can justify it because of the hard drive at the other side of it. Only downside is that I won't have a Cortex to control it, but will have to use the second laptop, which won't be just as convenient. I reckon I can live with that.

So, as a general rule, I will have the facility to play CD's, plug in ipods, phones, or other similar kit ( eg Minidisc players. Or a guitar or keyboard. ) and offer use of one or perhaps two microphones without any FX on them. Thus, I reckon I shall be equipped for most common eventualities, without wheeling in the FOH mixer.

I hope I have provided you with some food for thought, and as soon as I've made any progress, it's likely that some piccies will appear in the gallery.


being as how you are catching up at a rapid rate of knots.............time for another revision, version 3 me thinks:):):)imminent.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I can kind of understand where you are coming from Peter. You want to be in the position where you are able to cater for all eventualities yeah?

Your 'Roly Polygram' scenario.... Was there no pre-function contact between you and them with reference to the backing music?
If I had been in the same situation and was handed a CD, the only option I would have had is the CD Drive on the Laptop. That would have done the trick I guess although not ideal.
From my own point of view - I am happy to cater for people as long as I know in advance. I know we say it all the time but it's down to the prep' isn't it. A quick call in advance and the CD situation could have been sorted out and not been a potential stumbling block. Either a CD player would have been sourced or I'd have explained that the tracks needed to be on a USB stick.

[TONYTIGER]

I am with Peter on this one ,in my own case i can play CD,CDG, DVD, mp 3,WAV,anything on USB in fact i cant think of anything i cant play + plus 3 x mics with effects and not a computer or laptop in site all from one unit,but the difference with Peter is he has only a few quid in his wallet that's were the challenge is i wait for the results with bated breath.

[Excalibur]

I can kind of understand where you are coming from Peter. You want to be in the position where you are able to cater for all eventualities yeah?.
Not all, but I want to be in a position where the regularly occurring surprises don't even cause me to draw breath before dealing effortlessly with them.



Your 'Roly Polygram' scenario.... Was there no pre-function contact between you and them with reference to the backing music?
.
You lot crack me up at times. :D I still haven't conveyed to you how it works round here sometimes, have I? All you know is that you're supposed to turn up at Slagthorpe WMC, on such a date and time. This one turned out to be a 70th birthday, but could just as easily have been an 18th. My advance notice consisted of being handed a CD, and being told " the act's waiting outside, track 1 please, soon as you like. ". As you know, these acts often need to be elsewhere very soon, so delay is frowned upon. The CD tray on my laptop was indeed used ( eventually. It doesn't get used lot nowadays. ) After a couple of attempts, it loaded the tracks, but wouldn't play them. I have no idea what format they were in, but VDJ wouldn't play them, which really surprised (and annoyed ) me.


,but the difference with Peter is he has only a few quid in his wallet that's were the challenge is i wait for the results with bated breath.
Absolutely correct, Tony. And he's trying to leave as many of them in there as possible. ;) :D As soon as there's anything worth posting piccies of, I will.

And I refuse to be drawn into a race with one Cumbrian person, who appears to have an even worse case of DJADHD than I have. :p:D:D

[Excalibur]

Well this morning, I had a conversation with a remarkably smug person, whose opinions I value greatly. ( And whose ideas I nick on a regular basis. :D ) He gave me some honest and sensible advice, which I will try my very best to ignore. Even though I know he's absolutely correct. Smartbottom.

So, the quest begins to find the bits and bobs I need, and see if I can fit them all into cases in some semblance of order. Well at least CPC have got free delivery on again, although I fear I may easily exceed the normal free delivery minimum easily.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I wouldn't be going out of my way to make life more difficult for myself (whether that means spending more money or having to haul more gear) just to make sure that someone else who isn't pulling their weight gets an easy ride.

One example that springs to mind is a curry / karaoke place I used to do that would bring a belly dancer in during the night to do a few songs and have people dance.

She would have these horrible, tatty CD's that she would always forget the track numbers (they were 7, 12 and 4 if I remember correctly) since the places PA had their own cd decks I didn't have a problem playing the stuff but I would look like a total div starting a tune for 3 seconds while she would be kept well hidden giving me a thumbs up or a thumbs down to let me know it was the right one.

If it was my own PA I might have had problems playing the files because the disk was always scratched up and the cd mixer would have trouble picking them up on occasion. I don't see why I should be going out of my way to guarantee that another entertainer has the facilities to provide their service when they're bringing nothing to the table but a barely functioning CD full of snide tunes. Is it too much to ask other entertainers to facilitate their own act? We're always banging on about how bands have a habit of taking up as much space as possible and making life difficult for us then we're bending over backwards to make sure unprepared acts are OK? Is it too much to ask this girl who is doing a bunch of these routines in a night taking god knows how much home cash in hand to bring a CD that is guaranteed to work or something that she can quickly set up and play it through?

On another point related to this girls CDs. Someone mentioned in another thread how they won't hook up anyone's iPods, USBs, CD's etc... as they don't know where the music has come from. It's never something I'd given much thought but at a recent gig a guy asked for some old school trance track i didn't have. He then told me "it's cool, i'll get it on youtube on my phone and you can play it through that...."

When I told the him I wasn't allowed to do that since it wasn't a legally obtained track and I didn't have the right to play it he was absolutely fine. I'd imagine I'd have got a big spiel about how I was being unreasonable if I'd have taken another approach as I have done in the past. If you don't know where the music has come from, whether the USB or CD is clean from viruses etc... or whether the person has the right to play it, imo it's fine to refuse to play it through your rig.

[Shaun]

I wouldn't be going out of my way to make life more difficult for myself (whether that means spending more money or having to haul more gear) just to make sure that someone else who isn't pulling their weight
Completely agree. :)

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Completely agree. :)

:) Was worried I was sounding like a bit of an .......

It's a pet peeve of mine from my time in bands way before I got into DJing.

My band would load in a full backline of nice amps and drums and without a word of a lie you'd have some bands who would turn up with hee haw and then have the cheek to ask if they could borrow a bass guitar because their bassist didn't have one!!! I lost count of the amount of "promoters" we :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored:ed off because we wouldn't let anyone else use our gear. They usually saw the light when we pointed out they could have 1 band who had their sh*t together play the gig or no bands play at all since no one else had brought any gear and they weren't using ours.

We've brought several G's worth of equipment at much inconvenience to ourselves and between the rest of you you've brought a couple of guitars you got from Argos and a pair of drumsticks? I don't think so.

[Excalibur]

I fear some folk may have missed the thrust of my original argument, as parts of it are difficult to follow, even for the bloke who's propounding it. After lengthy conversations with Cumbria's biggest owner of faulty Peavey circuit boards, it's clear that the role for some kit will be to stay in the van "in case", rather than be plumbed in every night. A compromise which I feel will work well.

Now then, let's put the boot on some other feet, eh? Scenario one, for whatever reason, you've been asked to provide background music ( or ceremony music ) in a venue. The venue's sprawling, with many rooms needing this music. Do you carry in a booth, playout, six or eight active cabs of various sizes, and a few wireless music conectors? Or do you walk in and ask if you can plug your laptop into the venue wide PA you know they ought to have? Stretching things a bit I know, but similar principle.

Scenario two, the room's tiny, putting your little speakers on tripods will pose an unacceptable trip hazard, wherever you place them, cos you only just got your half size stand in. Behind you is the venue system, with some nice cabs on the walls and a multi input amp on a shelf just behind your left shoulder. Guess where I'd be plugging my mixer into. ;)

I've started the refit, I've ordered the bits for more of it, and I'll keep you posted as to progress. I'll post warnings for some of our Scottish contingent, before I post pics of the 24 socket patch panel that's going into one case!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek::eek:


Edit: I've just seen a post above this from certain gents North of the Border. Fair enough, I know where you're coming from. But what if when you've installed all your kit, be it band or disco, and a second act turns up to find that you've taken ecevery inch of available space? Or that if they bring their kit in as well, you'll have no room for punters? ( that nearly happened to Justin and me once. ) Compromise lads, sensible compromise. Symbiosis, not parasitism or conflict.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I fear some folk may have missed the thrust of my original argument, as parts of it are difficult to follow, even for the bloke who's propounding it. After lengthy conversations with Cumbria's biggest owner of faulty Peavey circuit boards, it's clear that the role for some kit will be to stay in the van "in case", rather than be plumbed in every night. A compromise which I feel will work well.

Now then, let's put the boot on some other feet, eh? Scenario one, for whatever reason, you've been asked to provide background music ( or ceremony music ) in a venue. The venue's sprawling, with many rooms needing this music. Do you carry in a booth, playout, six or eight active cabs of various sizes, and a few wireless music conectors? Or do you walk in and ask if you can plug your laptop into the venue wide PA you know they ought to have? Stretching things a bit I know, but similar principle.

Scenario two, the room's tiny, putting your little speakers on tripods will pose an unacceptable trip hazard, wherever you place them, cos you only just got your half size stand in. Behind you is the venue system, with some nice cabs on the walls and a multi input amp on a shelf just behind your left shoulder. Guess where I'd be plugging my mixer into. ;)

I've started the refit, I've ordered the bits for more of it, and I'll keep you posted as to progress. I'll post warnings for some of our Scottish contingent, before I post pics of the 24 socket patch panel that's going into one case!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek::eek:

I think something is maybe getting lost in translation here but fwiw from my own experience, situations like the one I mentioned where someone turns up with next to nothing and expects to use your rig is much more common than a scenario where you have several people with set ups that could be amalgamated to make life easier for everyone.

Apart from residencies where it's been agreed well in advance, I've never run through a venue's PA.




Edit: I've just seen a post above this from certain gents North of the Border. Fair enough, I know where you're coming from. But what if when you've installed all your kit, be it band or disco, and a second act turns up to find that you've taken ecevery inch of available space? Or that if they bring their kit in as well, you'll have no room for punters? ( that nearly happened to Justin and me once. ) Compromise lads, sensible compromise. Symbiosis, not parasitism or conflict.

I can set up on a postage stamp if need be and I'm not going to ruin someone's night intentionally making life difficult for another act but as I said, more often than not, it's us getting the short end up the deal.

I think the word SENSIBLE compromise is key. My footprint is pretty small already and I can set up in a tiny space if needed so I don't mind schlepping gear around to help out. I also don't mind other acts using my gear within reason but I draw the line where it's a completely one way street. Who was the guy on here that had a drag act blow one of his speakers a few weeks back? If that act doesn't have their own PA, they shouldn't be out performing IMO, you can't go around expecting a free ride with other peoples gear (that you then end up breaking)

[Excalibur]

I think something is maybe getting lost in translation here

In all honesty, it probably is. To an extent I'm playing Devil's advocate, and not just to wind anyone up. Most of what I've outlined above has happened or nearly happened at some point.

Jim, I once turned up at a residency to find that a DUO. ( Yes mate, duo, not nine piece soul band. The Soul Band actually left me much more room :D ) had taken up my area, and the entire dancefloor with kit. It happens. Not often, but it happens.

By the way Jim, did your Mum ever visit Fife? Day trip perhaps? The year before you were born? :whistle::D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[deltic]

By the way Jim, did your Mum ever visit Fife? Day trip perhaps? The year before you were born? :whistle::D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

like your thinking:):):):):)

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

In all honesty, it probably is. To an extent I'm playing Devil's advocate, and not just to wind anyone up. Most of what I've outlined above has happened or nearly happened at some point.

Jim, I once turned up at a residency to find that a DUO. ( Yes mate, duo, not nine piece soul band. The Soul Band actually left me much more room :D ) had taken up my area, and the entire dancefloor with kit. It happens. Not often, but it happens.

By the way Jim, did your Mum ever visit Fife? Day trip perhaps? The year before you were born? :whistle::D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

You've just reminded me of my gig last New Year's Eve. I was playing guitar in a trio and the DJ took up a ridiculous amount of space. I can't even remember why because his kit was pretty minimal. There was no subs or silly big lighting rigs, I just know that I was stuck standing between his speaker stand and our 4 ways trying desperately not to batter my Duesenberg's headstock off of something.:mad:

He might have had a homemade booth that was about 10 foot wide now that I think back :confused:

As for Fife, I'll need to ask my web footed twin brother if he knows the answer to that one.:daft:

[Shaun]

By the way Jim, did your Mum ever visit Fife? Day trip perhaps? The year before you were born? :whistle::D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

:lol: