Tradesman v Dj

[TONYTIGER]

Recently just had a inquiry for a pretty bog standard wedding, venue 10 minutes away times 7.30 to 11.30 easy set up 45 minutes in and out and quoted £ 210 .00 our normal standard rate for small local job.
The client came back asking how i could charge this outrageous amount his reasoning went like this,he is a carpenter/joiner and did a 5 year apprentership has approx £5000 to £7000 tied up in tools and plant runs a van has PLI and Pat and a advertising budget for this he charges £ 14.00 per hour which is the standard rate.He then went on to point out that i was charging £ 38.00 per hour and as far as he was aware there was no formal qualification to be a DJ and my operating costs were similar to his ,he then went on to say he had other quotes that were even more outrageous than mine from other operators who on paper seemed even to have less investment than me and were even less experienced than me and commented before he slammed down the phone,"this disco business is a complete rip off " i did not get the job but food for thought.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

How does he know what your operating costs are? :confused:

[funkymook]

He's in the wrong business!

[Dynamic Entertainment]

Recently just had a inquiry for a pretty bog standard wedding, venue 10 minutes away times 7.30 to 11.30 easy set up 45 minutes in and out and quoted £ 210 .00 our normal standard rate for small local job.
The client came back asking how i could charge this outrageous amount his reasoning went like this,he is a carpenter/joiner and did a 5 year apprentership has approx £5000 to £7000 tied up in tools and plant runs a van has PLI and Pat and a advertising budget for this he charges £ 14.00 per hour which is the standard rate.He then went on to point out that i was charging £ 38.00 per hour and as far as he was aware there was no formal qualification to be a DJ and my operating costs were similar to his ,he then went on to say he had other quotes that were even more outrageous than mine from other operators who on paper seemed even to have less investment than me and were even less experienced than me and commented before he slammed down the phone,"this disco business is a complete rip off " i did not get the job but food for thought.

Easy.....he has a greater working window to earn his £14 per hour.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

And how is there a standard rate? If he works for himself, he can charge what he wants.

[chrisj]

I had this reply to my quote of £350 for 6 hrs 7 - 1 am for disco with 4 mood lights (standard) and £500 for full mood lighting with disco for the 6 hrs,. This would have included 3 hrs travel and set up in the morning. It was at a top hotel nr Norwich. December 22nd. Apparently Musicology helped them out and I hope Mark had a good night.

I am confused as to what you mean about £350. If this is what you have previously quoted why is my quote £500, I am confused by this. Can you provide an itemised quote so I know what I am paying for. Only I have had cheaper quotes elsewhere of which one is from a DJ in Ipswich who can do all day set up for less but is not as knowledgeable of the music request.

Both myself, my partner and the hosts ie (parents) in all honesty feel that £500 is too steep. I understand that you factor in skill sets, knowledge, equipment etc but with all this in mind it factors down to what I see on paper and that is the per hour rate. I see this per hour rate to equate to what a skilled scaffolder (for example) would have to work a full day for. Please excuse my wording its just with the current economy I struggle to understand the valuation when other higher skill sets require less money.

Could you possibly explain the £350 and also itemise your quote? To put it into context my partner has to do 2 whole weeks work in the forces all day with what most believe to be the highest skill set possible (being serving personel) to gain the money required to pay for the 5-6 hours the DJ will work. Unfortunately that is a higher amount than our Freelance photogropher with 2 Ba-Hons degrees is charging for the whole day.

Please don't take this contact the wrong way but please understand that in the current economy money talks and I am struggle to compare the value of (for example) 2 weeks of my partners hard work spent on 5 hours labour. I hope this makes sense to you and that you respond with the above requests met?

Please understand I am not having a go at you or insulting your work I a mearly trying to gain an understanding. As a previous serving forces personel I am sure you share all forces frustration with there pay compaired to that of civilians. I am sure you can completely understand my questioning of the quote (not just yours) as I'm not saying you personally are but it seems that anyone in the wedding sector bumps up prices just because its a wedding.
[/SIZE]

As it happened I worked for 4 /12 hrs for £375 that night in a village hall + I had a kids disco in the afternoon and I was far better off.

[chrisj]

Sorry about the big font.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Sorry about the big font.
Edited for you (BTW You can edit your own posts up to 10 minutes after you've posted :))

[chrisj]

Thanks Angela.

[Sapphire Disco]

The going rate for a qualified tradesman is min £200 a day £25 per hour if the guy is under valuing himself it's not your fault and he wont be able to make ends meet he shouldn't expect you to do the same.

The minimum any DJ should go out for is £50 per hour playing time. ;)

[LeapCreative]

Im slightly surprised to find any skilled tradesman working for £14 per hour. In my experience, Joiners, Plumbers, Electricians etc all charge out at around £20 - £25 per hour.

The more cynical side of me is inclined to believe he's just angry that he's set his own bar too low :confused:

[TONYTIGER]

And how is there a standard rate? If he works for himself, he can charge what he wants.

Darren the building industry seems to have a pretty standard rate for tradesmen some slight variations on regional areas and depends if your on the cards or have the certificate if you are self employed so i would suggest that is what he is saying,also he is pointing out that he has undergone some sort of proper training (city & Guilds ) were as a Dj can buy some kit this week and set up next week as a Dj and charge much more ,i am neither for or against this argument just thought members would be interested in this point of view and would seem by other posts that members have had similar conversations.:) .I have always thought the mobile disco industry is pretty much unregulated some of us do it right some just take the :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored: and in the end that's one of the aims of the Forum to show that we are and have to be self regulating other wise we get comments like i had.


The going rate for a qualified tradesman is min £200 a day £25 per hour if the guy is under valuing himself it's not your fault and he wont be able to make ends meet he shouldn't expect you to do the same.

The minimum any DJ should go out for is £50 per hour playing time. ;)

I am sorry but i think your estimate for tradesmen rates are very optimistic in today's economical climate you have been watching Cowboy builders to much :)

[katman]

Im slightly surprised to find any skilled tradesman working for £14 per hour. In my experience, Joiners, Plumbers, Electricians etc all charge out at around £20 - £25 per hour.

The more cynical side of me is inclined to believe he's just angry that he's set his own bar too low :confused:

Maybe he is stuck in the same situation as the discos that work in the less well paid areas where Sids are prepared to do discos for under £100.

One of my neighbours asked me if I knew a carpenter the other day because he wanted some doors hanging, about 4 hours work, and the guy he rang up wanted £96 which he felt was a total rip off. I think its something that affects every industry and with money getting tighter all round people are generally less willing to pay the going rate. No doubt the carpenter would love to charge £25 per hour but if he couldnt get any work because all the other chippies were charging £14 what is he to do ?

I know the whole pricing thing has been done to death but the fact remains that in the UK there are such huge regional variations in the economy. If my house was in a different area it would be worth upto 6 times its current value but I doubt I would then find a garage to work on my car for £25 per hour.

[TONYTIGER]

Just asked the carpenters and brickies working on Prince Charles Poundbury site the most prestigious development in the UK which is next to were i live £ 15.50 per hour self employed.

[surround sounds]

I used to be a carpenter and on average working for someone I used to get £10 a hour, I went self employed at £20 a hour and could not get any work. Djing is to me easier and I get paid more money. Also I went to college for 2 years to study carpentry.

[funkymook]

There are top earning craftsmen in all trades, they're usually in high demand and for a very good reason, they can demonstrate why they are worth the extra.

Take the carpenter in the first post - I bet he'd get it if you said it's like the difference between a Chippy and a Master Woodcarver.

The services have ranks that indicate higher levels of responsibility and experience (and pay of course). No real argument about the differences in pay levels between people who risk their lives and devote their time to help people for little reward (armed services, firemen, nurses, ambulance etc) and other jobs though, so I wouldn't even attempt that one. I'd just agree and say they are grossly underpaid and it's not fair, but everybody has to make a living and there are many jobs that pay better and don't get me started on bankers and footballers etc.

But it all comes down to making yourself stand out from other DJ's, not necessarily better, but different in some way and a perfect match for that client, if you can't get that across then they have nothing else to go on but what you charge and what they can see - which isn't any different to anyone else, we all have speakers and lights and play music, and we all say we give a quality, bespoke service etc. With some clients it really does come down to getting in tune (no pun intended) with them and creating a relationship.

I also think that replies from customers who don't book you are worth their weight in gold. People send out feedback forms after successful events and get very little back they can use - comments like these from non-bookers gives you a real insight into where improvements can be made.

[Sapphire Disco]

Just asked the carpenters and brickies working on Prince Charles Poundbury site the most prestigious development in the UK which is next to were i live £ 15.50 per hour self employed.

I suspect that's working for a building company rather than running your own business , it's a bit like a DJ working for a scrooge agent really, never the less that is very poor money for such work I think I was earning not far off that 30 years ago.

[Cowlinn]

I don't really think it's any perspective clients place to ask you to explain yourself in this much detail. Yes ask why we should hire you rather than £60 sid but comparing it to the army etc is ridiculous.

The private sector salaries are always going to be higher than the public sector. I'd say this guy is going to be more trouble than it's worth. You have your prices and customers that pay them (presumably). If he doesn't want to that's fine.

[TONYTIGER]

There are top earning craftsmen in all trades, they're usually in high demand and for a very good reason, they can demonstrate why they are worth the extra.

Take the carpenter in the first post - I bet he'd get it if you said it's like the difference between a Chippy and a Master Woodcarver.

The services have ranks that indicate higher levels of responsibility and experience (and pay of course). No real argument about the differences in pay levels between people who risk their lives and devote their time to help people for little reward (armed services, firemen, nurses, ambulance etc) and other jobs though, so I wouldn't even attempt that one. I'd just agree and say they are grossly underpaid and it's not fair, but everybody has to make a living and there are many jobs that pay better and don't get me started on bankers and footballers etc.

But it all comes down to making yourself stand out from other DJ's, not necessarily better, but different in some way and a perfect match for that client, if you can't get that across then they have nothing else to go on but what you charge and what they can see - which isn't any different to anyone else, we all have speakers and lights and play music, and we all say we give a quality, bespoke service etc. With some clients it really does come down to getting in tune (no pun intended) with them and creating a relationship.

I also think that replies from customers who don't book you are worth their weight in gold. People send out feedback forms after successful events and get very little back they can use - comments like these from non-bookers gives you a real insight into where improvements can be made.

Spot on,i used to be a Master Cabinet Maker if i went back to it i would struggle to get £ 20 per hour to day your comments are so true its good to get feed back from the public makes us all sit up and take notice how the public see us.

[chrisj]

It is all about money again and there are always people who will pay for quality and experience and those that are after the cheapest they can get. Some are in between.

I met a couple in a local village hall recently when they had a good look around and booked it for their wedding. They had not told me the hall was not previously booked. We discussed the celebration disco and they said music should be predominantly 80's but Northern Soul is a must. Second marriage for both of them and they are going for just late afternoon drinks and evening with a Hog Roast and disco as they do not want a big hotel wedding because of cost. Best I could get for early set up in the morning and disco 7.30 until midnight was £260. Not bad as it is local and easy access. She is a bank manager, not my branch but the same as I bank with.
2 hrs in the morning at most and 6 hrs at most in the evening. £32.50 per hour for me.

I also have a 3 yr old birthday party of 1 hr, 3/4 hr to set up and then reload, (3/4 hr approx) 26 miles away. Small disco, bubble machine, suitable music and games plus a Magic Show. £100. So 3 1/4 hrs at £30.77 per hour.

The first is a 4 1/2 hr gig at £260 and the second a 1 hr party at £100 but the hourly rate is very similar.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Why do DJs insist on quoting their hourly rate as if they don't do a minute's work outside of the 3, 4, 5 (or whatever) hours of the event, and as if they don't have any business overheads? You wonder why clients have trouble working out why you charge what you do, when so many DJs don't seem to have a clue themselves!

[par6]

To the general public the cost of hiring a DJ is a lot and in many ways it is hard to justify.
All other members of what we call the Entertainment business have a distinct and obvious talent, musicians, singers, commedians etc have worked and practised for years to hone their craft whereas any fool can call themselves a "DJ" tomorrow and go out with Maplins gear, 30 gig of mp3's,do a gig and "blag" it i.e. get by, play the classics, some chart stuff and there you go, thats why there are so many Dj's now around your area compared to 30 years ago.
Back in the day, when I started 1984, Dj's were revered, looked up to, respected, they had record collections that took years to build up and had a real knowledge of the music they played, the gear was huge, light screens, walls of speakers and, here's the big one, personality ! They were entertainers, therefore anyone who fancied becoming a DJ was up against big obstacles, where would I get all my music from?, I'm gonna need a twin wheel transit ( de rigeur for a DJ in the 70's and 80's) for all the gear and on top of all that I've got to be an entertainer ? speak on the mic, and interact with the audience, eeek, sod that,I'll stick to the day job.
Fast forward 30 years and the percieved value of the DJ has all but disappeared, every song is immediately accessible via wifi, "DJ's" are going out with 500 gig of music that they dowloaded for free, the dj spends all night sat down and speaks only to announce the buffet and last orders and the gear (LED lights and all)fits in the back of a Mondeo ?
Thats why the client in the OP can't see £350's worth of value because there isn't any, not in any DJ he's seen.
:zip:

[Corabar Entertainment]

Thats why the client in the OP can't see £350's worth of value because there isn't any, not in any DJ he's seen.
:zip:
...so we're back to 'Explain why YOU are!'

[Shaun]

There are top earning craftsmen in all trades, they're usually in high demand and for a very good reason, they can demonstrate why they are worth the extra.

Take the carpenter in the first post - I bet he'd get it if you said it's like the difference between a Chippy and a Master Woodcarver.

The services have ranks that indicate higher levels of responsibility and experience (and pay of course). No real argument about the differences in pay levels between people who risk their lives and devote their time to help people for little reward (armed services, firemen, nurses, ambulance etc) and other jobs though, so I wouldn't even attempt that one. I'd just agree and say they are grossly underpaid and it's not fair, but everybody has to make a living and there are many jobs that pay better and don't get me started on bankers and footballers etc.

But it all comes down to making yourself stand out from other DJ's, not necessarily better, but different in some way and a perfect match for that client, if you can't get that across then they have nothing else to go on but what you charge and what they can see - which isn't any different to anyone else, we all have speakers and lights and play music, and we all say we give a quality, bespoke service etc. With some clients it really does come down to getting in tune (no pun intended) with them and creating a relationship.

I also think that replies from customers who don't book you are worth their weight in gold. People send out feedback forms after successful events and get very little back they can use - comments like these from non-bookers gives you a real insight into where improvements can be made.

Good post.

[chrisj]

This is getting good. I never quote an hourly rate, never have done and never will but I do a quick addition of time required to travel, set up, playing time and so on. I then give a quote. Admittedly I am quoting less this years as there are so many DJ's going well below my rates.
Many prospective clients are just after a price and they are not interested in whether cheap Maplin gear is used, what the light show is like, experience or anything else. Just the price.
I do call or email some that I do not win and ask why, feedback in other word. Most say 'I found cheaper'.

Maybe I should pick up a bucket and snow shovel and brush and offer to clear the driveway of snow as a guy did when I answered the door. Only a fiver he said.

[Corabar Entertainment]

they are not interested in whether cheap Maplin gear is used, what the light show is like, experience or anything else. Just the price. I disagree strongly with that: people DO care about quality and don't want cheap tat! It is, however, a balancing act between quality and price.

[Sapphire Disco]

Why do DJs insist on quoting their hourly rate as if they don't do a minute's work outside of the 3, 4, 5 (or whatever) hours of the event, and as if they don't have any business overheads? You wonder why clients have trouble working out why you charge what you do, when so many DJs don't seem to have a clue themselves!

It's not really quoting an hourly rate for me but if you can't get £40 to £50 an hour whilst you are actually playing makes you wonder if it's worth doing, considering all the other work and costs involved before you start or indeed pack up and go home.

[SamV]

Also unlike traditional trades, we have less hours to earn our keep. Can't remember the last time I did a daytime weekday gig. Our kit also needs to be maintained both technically and visually and unlike most trades we have to buy each song as we need it. If you have sizeable inventory then you also need a lockup/office, and then you have business rates etc etc.

[Excalibur]

Back in the day, when I started 1984, Dj's were revered, looked up to, respected, they had record collections that took years to build up and had a real knowledge of the music they played.......................,
Fast forward 30 years and the percieved value of the DJ has all but disappeared,
Oh my dear chap, how firmly you have struck the nail on the head. Correctamundo.



Many prospective clients are just after a price and they are not interested in whether cheap Maplin gear is used, what the light show is like, experience or anything else. Just the price.
.


I disagree strongly with that: people DO care about quality and don't want cheap tat! It is, however, a balancing act between quality and price.

And I disagree with you, Angela. Courteously, and conditionally, but an opposite point of view, nevertheless.
Unless you can convince the customer that " a disco is a disco is a disco" is not true, the customer will always feel the width, not the quality. Always.

I agree totally that we have to convince them that not all discos are the same, and explain the reasons why our prices are justified, but by heavens, it's hard sometimes.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Unless you can convince the customer that " a disco is a disco is a disco" is not true, the customer will always feel the width, not the quality. Always.



I'm not sure I agree with that. I'm not quite sure how you can say always and be speaking for everyone either? :confused:

[Corabar Entertainment]

I disagree strongly with that: people DO care about quality and don't want cheap tat! It is, however, a balancing act between quality and price.Peter: If you think my statement isn't true, why doesn't everyone in the country shop at Lidl?

Do YOU always buy the cheapest for everything? If not, why not?

[minty]

The going rate for a qualified tradesman is min £200 a day £25 per hour if the guy is under valuing himself it's not your fault and he wont be able to make ends meet he shouldn't expect you to do the same.

The minimum any DJ should go out for is £50 per hour playing time. ;)

If i charged £200 A DAYi would be out of work!!:zip:

[katman]

Peter: If you think my statement isn't true, why doesn't everyone in the country shop at Lidl?

Do YOU always buy the cheapest for everything? If not, why not?

It depends what you are buying and how regularly you buy/experience that product.

If you are buying baked beans every week you will try Aldi, Lidl, Asda, Tesco, Heinz and form your own opinion based on the quality of the product and price and then decide which YOU perceive to be best value for money.

You only buy a TV every few years and it is a much more expensive purchase and you look round at various models and prices and then make your choice, in my case after carefully considering the features and picture and sound quality. I dont buy the cheapest because they are usually pretty poor by MY standards, but I also dont buy the most expensive because I cant afford it.

Others arent so discerning, they will happily go to a supermarket or Argos and decide on a TV based purely on price buying a sealed box that contains a set they havent even seen out of the box let alone in use.

For many people, hiring a disco is a once or twice in a lifetime thing, and even seeing mobile discos may be something they only experience once every couple of years. I agree we have to persuade potential clients that all discos arent the same and that we are worth the money we are asking. Its definately an uphill struggle and isnt helped by people struggling to find money for normal day to day things in the current economic climate.

[TONYTIGER]

I think you can get a pretty good idea of the quality and professionalism of what your booking by looking at the operators web site this is normally the first thing that the prospective client will see and will either create interest or they will run a mile IMHO it says a lot about commitment and a professional approach,but there again i may be wrong which is the usual case.:)

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I think you can get a pretty good idea of the quality and professionalism of what your booking by looking at the operators web site this is normally the first thing that the prospective client will see a

Whilst that may be true in some cases, the opposite could also be said. How easy is it to 'bend the truth' by having an expensive website built with all manner of misleading statements on it?

[soundmaster mobile disco]

In my oppinion dont let the so called "cheaper djs" bother you,If your client is giving you so much grief over you quote,then im sorry but they are not the client for you.

I hope you told them why the other dj was cheaper than you,where was he cutting corners,what wedding dj experience did he have?Can he supply many happy previous customer comments?

I have found that as long as you can justify to your client why you charge your fees,then they should not be so picky with your quote.

[Excalibur]

Peter: If you think my statement isn't true, why doesn't everyone in the country shop at Lidl?

Because they believe that Lidl sell rubbish. They believe that what they buy from Tesco/Sainsburys/Waitrose et al will taste better, cook better and be better for them.
How does a £350 DJ play an mp3 better than a £60 one? Punters believe they can't, so they might as well save £290.


Do YOU always buy the cheapest for everything? If not, why not?

No. I try as best I can to ascertain where I have to spend more money to achieve what I want. I can buy a cordless drill in B&Q for £50. It's no good at all to me, it won't do what I want it to do. Therefore I spend £300 on a Makita.
Argos sell chainsaws for around £50. I know they won't stand the hammer I give them, so I buy Stihl, at £300 upwards.

My profligacy is tempered in other things though. The family refuse to eat anything other than Aldi Christmas puddings, and Christmas cake. Why? Because they're so good. The fact that they're cheap is a welcome bonus. I purchased a Sainsburys Finest Christmas pudding, ( It was on offer. ;) ) and from reading the ingredient list, it purported to be an epicurean delight, worthy of the most discerning gourmand. Suffice to say, it was nowhere as nice as the Aldi one.


It's all a question of perception again. People believe that being a DJ is easy nowadays, DJ's all use laptops nowadays, and they've got laptops at home which will play music just fine. There's a Maplins in every town selling big speakers and flashing lights, so they know it's not difficult to find the gear. They can even buy lasers to use in their own homes, usually for under £50. They don't know that Windows media player isn't adequate for dj'ing, they don't know that a Legendary Prosound 1600w amp will only deliver about two hundred on a good day, etc etc. How difficult can it be to press play a few times? Blimey, most of them only press play once, and just load tracks onto the playlist, so even that's not too taxing.

It's all about education and knowledge versus ignorance and uninformed opinion. On matters of Discos, we have knowledge, but it's an uphill struggle conveying that information to punters.

[funkymook]

Recently just had a inquiry for a pretty bog standard wedding

Perhaps this is where the problem lies? If that comes across to your clients then you're going to get lumped in with everybody else as a bog standard DJ.

It'd be interesting to see the whole enquiry and reply chain to see if there's anything that could've been done differently to make you stand out.

[TONYTIGER]

Whilst that may be true in some cases, the opposite could also be said. How easy is it to 'bend the truth' by having an expensive website built with all manner of misleading statements on it?

But why would you spends loads on a website and the product is poor ,you would soon get found out ,very hard to build a good reputation very easy to loose it if you see what i mean.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

But why would you spends loads on a website and the product is poor ,you would soon get found out

Maybe, but people do it all the time.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

My brother earns £220.00 per day and he is a skilled tradesman specialising in suspended ceilings. He has a long day and travels to London very early in the morning.
I have a friend who earns silly money working as a web developer or whatever it is for some magazine, again he works silly hours and has to travel to London every day.
Aren't we skilled tradesmen at the end of the day? I can't see what difference it makes at all.

Anyone can play music - YES.
Can anyone go and DJ and entertain 200 people of all ages and tastes that they've never met before with a full range of musc - NO.
I couldn't go and do my brother's job and vice versa.

I don't mind giving detailed quotations if I am asked for one but I've never been asked for one. I don't think I should have to justify my pricing to any customers either but I would do if I were asked to.

I think I may ask the Plumber or Sparky for a breakdown of their charges so they can justify why they charge what they do when they next visit

[TONYTIGER]

Perhaps this is where the problem lies? If that comes across to your clients then you're going to get lumped in with everybody else as a bog standard DJ.

It'd be interesting to see the whole enquiry and reply chain to see if there's anything that could've been done differently to make you stand out.

Not really he inquired through my website i would assume he would have read my prices which are very prominent ,i quoted the exact price as on site which i believe very reasonable then the phone call and that's it .You are quite welcome to view site pricing is very straightforward. And no i dont think my site indicates that i am a bog standard Dj whatever that is.

www.tonyjamesdisco.co.uk

[Excalibur]

Whilst that may be true in some cases, the opposite could also be said. How easy is it to 'bend the truth' by having an expensive website built with all manner of misleading statements on it?
Sadly, all too easy. :(


But why would you spends loads on a website and the product is poor ,you would soon get found out .
But not before you'd trousered large amounts of the folding stuff from many unsuspecting customers. As PT Barnum said, " you can fool all of the people some of the time".


Maybe, but people do it all the time.
Indeed they do, more's the pity.

[TONYTIGER]

Sadly, all too easy. :(


But not before you'd trousered large amounts of the folding stuff from many unsuspecting customers. As PT Barnum said, " you can fool all of the people some of the time".


Indeed they do, more's the pity.

Sorry wont wash in a small rural area in my case but can see your point of view were there are lots of chimney pots were so trusting out in the sticks.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Sorry wont wash in a small rural area in my case

How do you work that out Tony? Does everyone know everyone? Surely you don't have so few people that they all know everyone and everything about every business?

[TONYTIGER]

How do you work that out Tony? Does everyone know everyone? Surely you don't have so few people that they all know everyone and everything about every business?

Well your not far from the truth Darren and i never said "every business " which is out of context as the subject is mobile operators i may be wrong but i think there are only 3 or 4 in the County Town of Dorset ,how many in Reading quite a few i guess and i expect you have a pretty good idea what they are up to.Anyway seem to be getting off topic i only posted my feedback from a prospective disgruntled client because i thought members might be interested never thought it would start this sort of debate.:)

[funkymook]

Not really he inquired through my website i would assume he would have read my prices which are very prominent ,i quoted the exact price as on site which i believe very reasonable then the phone call and that's it .You are quite welcome to view site pricing is very straightforward. And no i dont think my site indicates that i am a bog standard Dj whatever that is.

www.tonyjamesdisco.co.uk

You miss my point, it's nothing to do with your website, anyone can buy a decent one these days (and perhaps your assumption he read all the details are wrong).

I was referring to your response to the enquiry, what did you put (or didn't put) that didn't get the message across? Did you just quote a price or did you make it a bit more personal? If you don't want to share that then fair enough, we won't be able to give you feedback.

What exactly was the 'food for thought' then?

[TONYTIGER]

You miss my point, it's nothing to do with your website, anyone can buy a decent one these days (and perhaps your assumption he read all the details are wrong).

I was referring to your response to the enquiry, what did you put (or didn't put) that didn't get the message across? Did you just quote a price or did you make it a bit more personal? If you don't want to share that then fair enough, we won't be able to give you feedback.

What exactly was the 'food for thought' then?

Just a normal response
Dear ........
thank you for your inquiry yes the date you require is free and i am very conversant with the venue you have chosen for your special day cost would be £ 210.00 no vat there are no hidden extras and the package includes all lighting,you are quite welcome to supply a play list of some of your favorite songs and of course your first dance.
A small deposit of £ 50.00 is required and balance payable at your leisure.A booking form can be downloaded from the site and you can pay your deposit on line or if you require for me to put one in the post just let me know,if you require further information or you would like to meet me please don't hesitate to contact me.
Regards
Tony Lyall
As you can see just a normal polite response that i have been doing for many years ,perhaps he was just a :muppet: but i always treat all enquirers with the same respect even if i have a instinct that they are going to be awkward. There seems to be plenty of feed back with out seeing my response which really has no bearing on the topic but here it is anyway.:)

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I wouldn't even waste my time replying.

Your price is your price, what gives anyone the right to question it to that extent and in such a manner?

I've got all the respect in the world for forces personnel and even offer discounts to them but that guy just seems bitter about his and his wife's career and earning potential.

It would be interesting to know if he's got onto the venue catering about how they can charge £40 for some soup, a chicken dish and defrosted profiteroles or how his photographer who can work alone, has no set up time and takes a bunch of photos then burns them onto a DVD with some nice illegally downloaded backing music can charge over a grand.

I'd also add that having a trade or degree isn't saying a whole lot these days either as they're ten a penny and there's plenty of useless / dodgy tradesmen and morons with letters behind their name.

[NKR]

Interesting one as I think I may have made this point some time ago that people would make that comparison with skilled trades. I have never had that sort of response, but it is interesting to see it actually happen.

In the end of the day if he doesn't want to pay the rate it is hard to convince anyone otherwise in this circumstance without getting close to explaining why you are better than them. The whole question begged of a why do you think you are better than me arguement on its way.

I would have just said that is our price and we come recommended and left it at that and not taken the booking as you would never have been worth the price in his eyes.

- - - Updated - - -

Interesting one as I think I may have made this point some time ago that people would make that comparison with skilled trades. I have never had that sort of response, but it is interesting to see it actually happen.

In the end of the day if he doesn't want to pay the rate it is hard to convince anyone otherwise in this circumstance without getting close to explaining why you are better than them. The whole question begged of a why do you think you are better than me arguement on its way.

I would have just said that is our price and we come recommended and left it at that and not taken the booking as you would never have been worth the price in his eyes.

[wensleydale]

Interesting that no-one has mentioned supply and demand yet as far as I can tell- surely there's an element of that in all of our pricing?

[Corabar Entertainment]

Just a normal response
Dear ........
thank you for your inquiry yes the date you require is free and i am very conversant with the venue you have chosen for your special day cost would be £ 210.00 no vat there are no hidden extras and the package includes all lighting,you are quite welcome to supply a play list of some of your favorite songs and of course your first dance.
A small deposit of £ 50.00 is required and balance payable at your leisure.A booking form can be downloaded from the site and you can pay your deposit on line or if you require for me to put one in the post just let me know,if you require further information or you would like to meet me please don't hesitate to contact me.
Regards
Tony Lyall
As you can see just a normal polite response that i have been doing for many years ,perhaps he was just a :muppet: but i always treat all enquirers with the same respect even if i have a instinct that they are going to be awkward. There seems to be plenty of feed back with out seeing my response which really has no bearing on the topic but here it is anyway.:)
...but that reply doesn't tell them anything whatsoever about you, or give them any reason to book you rather than someone else. Summarised, it says "It costs x. Do this to book."

(I'm also assuming that wasn't a straight copy and paste of your response and that the lack of capital letters, punctuation, etc is for expediency)

[funkymook]

Just a normal response
Dear ........
thank you for your inquiry yes the date you require is free and i am very conversant with the venue you have chosen for your special day cost would be £ 210.00 no vat there are no hidden extras and the package includes all lighting,you are quite welcome to supply a play list of some of your favorite songs and of course your first dance.
A small deposit of £ 50.00 is required and balance payable at your leisure.A booking form can be downloaded from the site and you can pay your deposit on line or if you require for me to put one in the post just let me know,if you require further information or you would like to meet me please don't hesitate to contact me.
Regards
Tony Lyall
As you can see just a normal polite response that i have been doing for many years ,perhaps he was just a :muppet: but i always treat all enquirers with the same respect even if i have a instinct that they are going to be awkward. There seems to be plenty of feed back with out seeing my response which really has no bearing on the topic but here it is anyway.:)

It's OK, typical standard email you could send to anyone though, no real enthusiasm about their 'special day'.
(and I hope it didn't go out like that, a few capitals wouldn't go amiss).

The first thing I see where you could make of it is that you're familiar with the venue. That's worth expanding on, a few words about some of the fantastic weddings you've done there (with feedback quotes and photos if you have them). Offer to meet them there and take them through the various options you can offer them etc.

I usually ask a few questions as well, colour schemes etc (especially if you offer mood-lighting)..

Ask them what music they'd like and what they've chosen for a first dance...

Getting clients to talk about their ideas means they're starting to plan the night with you.

There's a lot more but you get the idea.

It takes a bit more time but it starts to set you apart from all the other standard replies they'll be getting.

[NKR]

Interesting that no-one has mentioned supply and demand yet as far as I can tell- surely there's an element of that in all of our pricing?

But there are loads of DJs out there. Might do a check on google to see how many come up in my area compared with joiners, just as a comparison and out of interest now you have said that.

[TONYTIGER]

...but that reply doesn't tell them anything whatsoever about you, or give them any reason to book you rather than someone else. Summarised, it says "It costs x. Do this to book."

(I'm also assuming that wasn't a straight copy and paste of your response and that the lack of capital letters, punctuation, etc is for expediency)

I really don't see your point the subject was about Tradesmen v Djs and nothing to do about my response the orginal response is no longer on record so this is just my version as i recall it the site gives plenty of information about me and there is a offer to meet but as i said this is way of topic and why you want to go down this route benefits nobody just let the debate run its course please.

[Corabar Entertainment]

I really don't see your point...Clearly!

The point is that the client couldn't see the value in your service, and so we were asking did you give him reason to value your service above other quotes he received.

The answer is "No"

[TONYTIGER]

It's OK, typical standard email you could send to anyone though, no real enthusiasm about their 'special day'.
(and I hope it didn't go out like that, a few capitals wouldn't go amiss).

The first thing I see where you could make of it is that you're familiar with the venue. That's worth expanding on, a few words about some of the fantastic weddings you've done there (with feedback quotes and photos if you have them). Offer to meet them there and take them through the various options you can offer them etc.

I usually ask a few questions as well, colour schemes etc (especially if you offer mood-lighting)..

Ask them what music they'd like and what they've chosen for a first dance...

Getting clients to talk about their ideas means they're starting to plan the night with you.

There's a lot more but you get the idea.

It takes a bit more time but it starts to set you apart from all the other standard replies they'll be getting.
Whats this got to do with the discussion about Djs rate of pay compared to tradesmen :confused: and i did mention there music choice and first dance or did you miss that bit.

[TONYTIGER]

Clearly!

The point is that the client couldn't see the value in your service, and so we were asking did you give him reason to value your service above other quotes he received.

The answer is "No"

Wrong he was moaning about rates that DJs charge compared with what he charges and that was from other quotes he had received from other operators,and at no time have said i was disappointed that i did not gain the job just trying to share the thoughts of one member of the public's perception of the industry,big mistake on my part it would seem.

[funkymook]

Whats this got to do with the discussion about Djs rate of pay compared to tradesmen :confused:

As I said before there are people that can command premium prices in all trades so comparisons mean nothing - getting that message across to clients means everything though, this is where I think you failed.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Wrong he was moaning about rates that DJs charge compared with what he charges and that was from other quotes he had received from other operators,and at no time have said i was disappointed that i did not gain the job just trying to share the thoughts of one member of the public's perception of the industry,big mistake on my part it would seem.
OK, Tony. All skilled tradesmen charge £14 an hour, and telling a client why you give a worthwhile service is pointless. Anything for a quiet life :rolleyes:

[TONYTIGER]

OK, Tony. All skilled tradesmen charge £14 an hour, and telling a client why you give a worthwhile service is pointless. Anything for a quiet life :rolleyes:

Your quote not mine,time for bed zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[funkymook]

Wrong he was moaning about rates that DJs charge compared with what he charges and that was from other quotes he had received from other operators,and at no time have said i was disappointed that i did not gain the job just trying to share the thoughts of one member of the public's perception of the industry,big mistake on my part it would seem.

Where do you think he gets his perceptions from? By his interaction with DJ's.

But if you honestly think your reply was the best that it could've been then carry on, personally I believe it could've been a lot better and perhaps may even have made him reassess his view on DJ's.

[yourdj]

I had one of these today. She is in the events industry so i should give her a 50% discount. I said no go an do one - and she booked me anyway. :p

I get a 3 star venue recommend me and had several enquiries this week - all of which have seemed a bit shocked at the price.
One girl emailed me on my second business saying that other prices were too high.
She was a bit embarrassed when I then said I was the same guy and are the recommended supplier for a reason. ;)
Sorted out a meeting with her which usually goes my way and they book.

I am all out for someone trying to get a deal or two but some peoples justifications are stupid.
Also my working window as was pointed out is minute compared to a full-time tradesman.

Our fees however do seem a lot when people compare it to their own work. I charge in excess of £500 for 4 hours and on average £950 a day.
One of my DJ's let it slip that he was earning £375 a night for the christmas functions and the function manager could not believe it.

I said your in the wrong job then pal. Its not my fault your working 12 hours a day for next to nothing :p

[ppentertainments]

Our fees however do seem a lot when people compare it to their own work. I charge in excess of £500 for 4 hours and on average £950 a day.

Amazing - and still not VAT registered, especially considering how busy you are :)

[yourdj]

Amazing - and still not VAT registered, especially considering how busy you are :)


No not yet (just) for 2012 :) Not got to April yet and last year was really busy. I can send DT a date sheet to prove it :rolleyes:
Not the best place to be with clients who can't claim it back. I would rather cut back on work tbh as my overheads are not much vs income.



On a serious note: I am not intentionally willy waving and will not mention pricing again as comments like this are a bit annoying :(
I am just trying to add my bit to the discussion as I am a bit more expensive to the norm and get price haggling all the time - thats all :)

[vinamtaylor]

Did his £14.00 per hour Include call out fees materials,paye, vat etc I bet £14.00 per hour is what he pays himself after factoring all this in to his quotes so he will charge his customers more than £14.00 per hour plus he can make himself over £500 per week clear profit for 40 hours work. We have to rely on week end work mostly and all the extras such as client meetings prepping play list equipment maintenance etc.

[TONYTIGER]

Where do you think he gets his perceptions from? By his interaction with DJ's.

But if you honestly think your reply was the best that it could've been then carry on, personally I believe it could've been a lot better and perhaps may even have made him reassess his view on DJ's.

You may be right but he was talking in general terms about all the quotes he had received not only mine,i know for a fact he acquired a disco for £ 130 so never stood a chance really,i must point out on my site there is clear pricing and pictures and biog of all our DJs so clients have a pretty good idea of our services and when they make a inquiry i would assume they have taken that on board,i am not a believer in ring for quote scenario and no information of the presenter you are going to trust for your function but again we all have a approach that works for us.:)

[ukpartydj]

On a serious note: I am not intentionally willy waving and will not mention pricing again as comments like this are a bit annoying :(
I am just trying to add my bit to the discussion as I am a bit more expensive to the norm and get price haggling all the time - thats all :)

To be honest I looked at your website a while ago and was shocked at the prices you charge but after you read a bit more and watch a few videos I very quickly come to the realisation you provide far more than most DJ's and it's easy to see why your price is "high".

I spent 2 years in college studying fine furniture craft which is probably the same as the course Tony did, the tutor said it's the highest level of carpentry and I honestly loved it. So why did I become a mobile DJ almost immediately afterwards?

A) I did my research and found that there isn't a lot of people wanting to spend £500 on a custom made chair = very little work.
B) The amount of profit I could make compared to the outlay wasn't enough for me, I need the limitless sky in the job I do, I know that if I really wanted to I could create a mobile disco agency that covered the world with hundreds of DJ's and nice big offices... It's one hell of a dream but I know that it's not impossible which makes me feel far happier.

All my tutors were quite shocked when I told them I wasn't going to pursue fine carpentry anymore as I loved it and I was the best in the class and even did competitions for the college, at the end of the day I aim to be the best I can be but I also need to make money! Which is also why I left my other dream of being a Trance DJ and toned it down to club DJ and then decided the Mobile DJing yielded the most money.

15329

This is a picture of my final piece for my course, 92 individuality hand cut joints which include 76 dovetails (one of the most difficult joints to get right) along with well over 50 machine cut joints, 3 custom double inlays, beveled legs (quite tricky) and push to open draws; All my joints except 2 are perfect (I am not trying to brag just saying that it is of professional quality) and my tutor said you could drop this off the top of a house and it would still be in one piece and work just fine. And I designed this myself which took around 8 hours to plan which wood to order in and the dimensions / how the mechanism would work.

If you wanted a company to make you this cabinet just as I made it you'd be looking at £1000+ I'd imagine ... who wants to pay that for just one bedside cabinet? People cannot see the value of my bedside cabinet but a bride can see the value of an experienced DJ with a tidy setup. So if anyone asks why I charge more than the next DJ I just think to myself - because the other DJ isn't as clever as I am ...

I see Toby's idea and being at the top of the mobile disco game and think he's one clever :Censored::Censored:

[DazzyD]

Easy.....he has a greater working window to earn his £14 per hour.

This is what it all comes down to when setting prices for us DJs. Those who do this full-time have to make a week's wages in two or three nights, maybe up to 18 hours of performance time, not the 5,6 or 7 14 hour days that so-called "tradesmen" can do. I know a guy who works in security and he's told me for the last few months he's been working 12 hour days 7 days a week (what happened to the European Working Time Directive???) totalling 84 hours a week. A DJ mate of mine works 4 nights a week for 5 hours at a time totalling 20 hours a week. Big difference, isn't there??


I had this reply to my quote of £350 for 6 hrs 7 - 1 am for disco with 4 mood lights (standard) and £500 for full mood lighting with disco for the 6 hrs,. This would have included 3 hrs travel and set up in the morning. It was at a top hotel nr Norwich. December 22nd. Apparently Musicology helped them out and I hope Mark had a good night.

I am confused as to what you mean about £350. If this is what you have previously quoted why is my quote £500, I am confused by this. Can you provide an itemised quote so I know what I am paying for. Only I have had cheaper quotes elsewhere of which one is from a DJ in Ipswich who can do all day set up for less but is not as knowledgeable of the music request.

Both myself, my partner and the hosts ie (parents) in all honesty feel that £500 is too steep. I understand that you factor in skill sets, knowledge, equipment etc but with all this in mind it factors down to what I see on paper and that is the per hour rate. I see this per hour rate to equate to what a skilled scaffolder (for example) would have to work a full day for. Please excuse my wording its just with the current economy I struggle to understand the valuation when other higher skill sets require less money.

Could you possibly explain the £350 and also itemise your quote? To put it into context my partner has to do 2 whole weeks work in the forces all day with what most believe to be the highest skill set possible (being serving personel) to gain the money required to pay for the 5-6 hours the DJ will work. Unfortunately that is a higher amount than our Freelance photogropher with 2 Ba-Hons degrees is charging for the whole day.

Please don't take this contact the wrong way but please understand that in the current economy money talks and I am struggle to compare the value of (for example) 2 weeks of my partners hard work spent on 5 hours labour. I hope this makes sense to you and that you respond with the above requests met?

Please understand I am not having a go at you or insulting your work I a mearly trying to gain an understanding. As a previous serving forces personel I am sure you share all forces frustration with there pay compaired to that of civilians. I am sure you can completely understand my questioning of the quote (not just yours) as I'm not saying you personally are but it seems that anyone in the wedding sector bumps up prices just because its a wedding.
[/SIZE]

As it happened I worked for 4 /12 hrs for £375 that night in a village hall + I had a kids disco in the afternoon and I was far better off.

Wow! What an easy reply that would have been. "Thank you for the email. My prices are set annually after careful consideration of projected bookings against projected costs which enables me to assess how much I need to charge for each show to make a living taken over a full year. Therefore, I am unable to provide you with a breakdown of costs for your specific booking as bookings are not costed individually. However, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for your interest in my business and wish you well for your event. Regards.". A short but simple reply in which I've addressed the request for information and I've been polite and courteous which leaves the door open for future contact and possible bookings from this person.

However, the "serving personnel" bit doesn't cut it with me. Joining the armed forces is a career choice just like any other. I don't have any more respect for a soldier than I do for, say, a nursery school teacher or a greengrocer's assistant (do they still even exist?? :confused: ). But that's another matter altogether!


... Its definately an uphill struggle and isnt helped by people struggling to find money for normal day to day things in the current economic climate.

Yet people still find the money to pay ever-increasing football ticket prices to keep clubs buying ever-pricier over-paid and under-performing players! It's a strange world, isn't it? ;)


But why would you spends loads on a website and the product is poor ,you would soon get found out ,very hard to build a good reputation very easy to loose it if you see what i mean.


Sadly, all too easy. :(


But not before you'd trousered large amounts of the folding stuff from many unsuspecting customers. As PT Barnum said, " you can fool all of the people some of the time".


Indeed they do, more's the pity.

A lot of scams start with a convincing well-designed and built website. Maybe something to think about! ;)

[ukpartydj]

Yet people still find the money to pay ever-increasing football ticket prices to keep clubs buying ever-pricier over-paid and under-performing players! It's a strange world, isn't it? ;)

I disagree with the "over-paid" part of that, they can play at a level I could never even dream of and the demand for good footballers is extremely high with a lot of competition.
If they put the same amount of work into a business idea they could potentially earn a lot more!

[funkymook]

You may be right but he was talking in general terms about all the quotes he had received not only mine,i know for a fact he acquired a disco for £ 130 so never stood a chance really,i must point out on my site there is clear pricing and pictures and biog of all our DJs so clients have a pretty good idea of our services and when they make a inquiry i would assume they have taken that on board,i am not a believer in ring for quote scenario and no information of the presenter you are going to trust for your function but again we all have a approach that works for us.:)

You assume they read and take notice of all the details on your site - obviously this person didn't, which should make you wonder how many others don't either. Do you do any stats on number of hits, what pages are viewed, when they click away etc?

If you get all the work you need and you don't worry about losing a few enquiries to cheaper DJ's then there's no need to change anything, just write them off as never would've booked you anyway.

But if I can convert a GoodParty gig with a sub £200 budget to a plus £300 booking (no extras, just DJ'ing) by taking a bit of time and effort in my response then that proves to me it's possible. Next highest quote was £180 and many more under that, I met the client last week, to say he wasn't impressed with the quality of the responses is an understatement. And on paper it should be a gig any DJ could cover, he had a strict list of music (over 9 hours worth) that had to be used with no deviation. Funnily enough after our meeting that was reduced to some must plays and my discretion with the rest of the music - but that's worth it's own thread on how to handle strict playlist clients!

Obviously it won't convert every single low budget lead - but it landed me a decent paying gig in January at a local venue, and the same approach means most of my wedding bookings upgrade to a full day booking.

I see effective communication as part of our job - in fact with some other trades you can go and see examples of their work (builders, decorators etc), with DJ's apart from what's on the websites (which we all know could be fake) we have to sell ourselves by what we say because we can't invite people to private parties.

Sorry if you think all this is off topic - but all I'm reading in your post is that you lost a booking because you couldn't justify your value to a client, the fact he used trade comparisons as an excuse just means it's a set of objections you were unable to overcome - dealing with objections is part of any selling job.

[yourdj]

To be honest I looked at your website a while ago and was shocked at the prices you charge but after you read a bit more and watch a few videos I very quickly come to the realisation you provide far more than most DJ's and it's easy to see why your price is "high".

I spent 2 years in college studying fine furniture craft which is probably the same as the course Tony did, the tutor said it's the highest level of carpentry and I honestly loved it. So why did I become a mobile DJ almost immediately afterwards?

Good to know that - thanks for the feedback. :)

I do think people can see some sort of difference and my customers are extremely consistent sorts of people. Bookings are also up on last year already and I have raised them again so there is no shortage of demand (although i have lots of tbc that do not get back to me) and the price is still under what most of my main competitors in Hampshire are charging tbh although my day rate is a little higher as i have changed it to be variable on the ceremony start time.

Give Charlie a shout he is doing a GCSE project and may need some advice. Its a flight case/deckstand which I think in reality won't work, but he is a clever chap (poster on here) and lives in Lymington.

[TONYTIGER]

To be honest i think your site is spot on any visitor who visits your site straight away can see your pricing what you do what you look like it is so well thought out,as i have said this was never a pricing post,just pointing out how the public perceive us compared to as a example to any tradesman who has undergone many years of training to gain some certification to prove he is competent to deliver the service you require and aspect.When i trained as a Master Cabinet Maker it took me 5 years to get my B tech before i could even earn a penny.I have had a look at certain websites of people who have been very vocal with there posts,not even a name or any inclination of what there costs are no idea of what they look like and believe me it matters especially when you are 66 and turn up for a gig when most of the punters are a third of your age.Keep up the good work as you seem to have a modern and fresh approach to this industry.:)

[funkymook]

To be honest i think your site is spot on any visitor who visits your site straight away can see your pricing what you do what you look like it is so well thought out,as i have said this was never a pricing post,just pointing out how the public perceive us compared to as a example to any tradesman who has undergone many years of training to gain some certification to prove he is competent to deliver the service you require and aspect.When i trained as a Master Cabinet Maker it took me 5 years to get my B tech before i could even earn a penny.I have had a look at certain websites of people who have been very vocal with there posts,not even a name or any inclination of what there costs are no idea of what they look like and believe me it matters especially when you are 66 and turn up for a gig when most of the punters are a third of your age.Keep up the good work as you seem to have a modern and fresh approach to this industry.:)

Could not years on the road be seen as an apprenticeship if someone wanted to compare DJ'ing to other trades? OK there's no qualification but surely most trades people understand the value of on the job training over pieces of paper?

Prices on sites - doesn't matter if you do or don't have them as long as you can write a decent email :D

[TONYTIGER]

Could not years on the road be seen as an apprenticeship if someone wanted to compare DJ'ing to other trades? OK there's no qualification but surely most trades people understand the value of on the job training over pieces of paper?

Prices on sites - doesn't matter if you do or don't have them as long as you can write a decent email :D

Off course it does if your older like you and me but how often do you see "Fully Professional Dj" and they have not even started shaving :)

[funkymook]

So going back to the original post - if someone else gave you the same argument tomorrow how would you answer it?

[TONYTIGER]

So going back to the original post - if someone else gave you the same argument tomorrow how would you answer it?

I wouldn't he has a fair point hence the public's perception i am who i am and i hide nothing on my site works for me might not work for you we all have choices how we market our business ,i have managed to make a good living since the 60s why mend it when it aint bust and i am very happy:D

[Corabar Entertainment]

He has a fair point... If you really believe that, why don't you charge £70 for a 5-hour party? (£14 x 5 = £70)

[funkymook]

I wouldn't he has a fair point hence the public's perception i am who i am and i hide nothing on my site works for me might not work for you we all have choices how we market our business ,i have managed to make a good living since the 60s why mend it when it aint bust and i am very happy:D

He had a fair point?

You agree with him, so you've been making a living ripping people off compared to other trades? (which was his point if I'm not mistaken)

Your 50 years or so of experience counts for nothing in this argument? Chances are you've been DJ'ing longer than he's been alive.

I think his point was seriously flawed for various reasons that have already been discussed, but he's certainly managed to put you in your place.

[TONYTIGER]

He had a fair point?

You agree with him, so you've been making a living ripping people off compared to other trades? (which was his point if I'm not mistaken)

Your 50 years or so of experience counts for nothing in this argument? Chances are you've been DJ'ing longer than he's been alive.

I think his point was seriously flawed for various reasons that have already been discussed, but he's certainly managed to put you in your place.

Your opinion which does not count for much in my life,i wish you could see my private message in box on this subject but i will leave it there and that's terminal because it so obviously upsets you .

[Corabar Entertainment]

Tony: there is absolutely no need to be so bloody rude!

I don't know what's got in to you recently, but you have on numerous occasions resorted to being down-right nasty during several discussions with several members on here. Forums are for debate. There's no point in continually throwing your toys out of the pram just because someone has a different opinion to you.

[Corabar Steve]

It's amazing how many times when somebody is on the losing end of a discussion they bring up the ammont of PMs of support they've had on the subject.


Strange how all these people who agree never say so on the thread.

[funkymook]

Your opinion which does not count for much in my life,i wish you could see my private message in box on this subject but i will leave it there and that's terminal because it so obviously upsets you .

There was a compliment in there if you had bothered to read it properly - I was pointing out that your experience was a good counter argument to the untrained DJ perception so don't be so quick to agree with his point of view (obviously I don't think you've been ripping people off - he does!)

Perhaps it was too subtle.....

[TONYTIGER]

Tony: there is absolutely no need to be so bloody rude!

I don't know what's got in to you recently, but you have on numerous occasions resorted to being down-right nasty during several discussions with several members on here. Forums are for debate. There's no point in continually throwing your toys out of the pram just because someone has a different opinion to you.

Please point out were i have been rude i posted some feed back from the public but that is not that important on here some poor sole making a comment on the mobile industry how dare he. so a few and i mean a few started laying in to me i have had so many mails from people who are frighten to post on here great situation, to anyone who has read the posts on this subject i have always agreed that it is just my opinion and i see there point of view as well i suggest you have a look at some of your comments recently hardly polite and it would seem if anyone has some views that are not the norm along comes the usual culprits yes it is about debate and i never started this and at no time i have ever been rude to Funkymook rather the other way round.I will save you a lot trouble and will not post again because it would seem that healthy debate is not welcome on here which is pretty evident by the number of worthwhile contributors who have just faded away . " so bloody rude" quote really subtle choice of words now lesser people would had have a severe ticking of for that but it would seem there's one rule for us mere mortals and one for the higher order .I will now log off so any reply will not get to me through the forum,i have banned myself that will be a first on here which should make you very happy.

[Corabar Entertainment]

Please point out were i have been rude Here:

Your opinion which does not count for much in my life,i wish you could see my private message in box on this subject but i will leave it there and that's terminal because it so obviously upsets you .

i posted some feed back from the public but that is not that important on here some poor sole making a comment on the mobile industry how dare he. so a few and i mean a few started laying in to me Where has anyone laid in to you? Asked questions / explored the topic / reasons / discussed / held a different opinion, but never a personal attack!

I didn't even read past that point on your post, because it started going down the 'people are too scared to post' road and, TBH, the lack of punctuation made it too difficult to decipher.

[Corabar Steve]

It's amazing how many times when somebody is on the losing end of a discussion they bring up the ammont of PMs of support they've had on the subject.


Strange how all these people who agree never say so on the thread.
Usually followed by something along the lines of...

i have had so many mails from people who are frighten to post on here



I will now log off so any reply will not get to me through the forum,i have banned myself that will be a first on here which should make you very happy.
Bye then :wave: :HappySteve:

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

i have had so many mails from people who are frighten to post on here

Tony is a man of great experience and knowledge, but here is talking through his backside. This doesn't happen. He may have got one or two from people who have been banned or who have fallen out with the staff on here, but a great many? I don't think so. Why would people bother? And frightened? Why would they be? We don't ban people for disagreeing with us and in fact could probably count on two hand the number of people we have banned in the 10 years we have been going.

Some people don't like others opinion and will throw toys out of their prams when it happens. And it does happen, over and over.

It's a shame a man of Tony's experience has left us, but not a shame when he turns out to not have the ability to listen to others point of view.

[funkymook]

Sorry if you feel offended in anyway Tony but I'm not sure what you expected when you stated it was 'food for thought' in your OP? If that isn't inviting comment and debate then I don't know what is.

Did you really think a forum full of DJ's wouldn't hold strong views when you start a thread like this?

[ukpartydj]

Tony - I think you've taken this one too personally, I can see both side of the argument here and I think it's quite bizzare that you would suggest your enquirer is correct to a bunch of people who know that he isn't.
The price per hour thing does make sense and he does have a point but he's comparing chalk and cheese.

[Excalibur]

Tony - I think you've taken this one too personally, I can see both side of the argument here and I think it's quite bizzare that you would suggest your enquirer is correct to a bunch of people who know that he isn't.
The price per hour thing does make sense and he does have a point but he's comparing chalk and cheese.

I think that sums things up rather well. This is a forum, and one of the purposes of a forum is informed debate. As long as that debate is reasoned, polite and accurate, then it is to be welcomed and encouraged. One of the rules points out that insults will not be tolerated, and that is an admirable aim, which we try at all times to achieve.

The exit of any member is regrettable, for whatever reason, and I will be particularly saddened if Tony feels he has to leave, especially as I feel it was all over a misunderstanding. Very sad.

[DazzyD]

Tony - I think you've taken this one too personally, I can see both side of the argument here and I think it's quite bizzare that you would suggest your enquirer is correct to a bunch of people who know that he isn't.
The price per hour thing does make sense and he does have a point but he's comparing chalk and cheese.

I disagree. When clients are hiring us they are buying a service as a whole regardless of how long it takes us to deliver that service. I had a lot of dental work done last year that was charged as one service. I wasn't paying the dentist by hour. When you buy a house you are not paying by brick or when you buy a car you're not paying per wheel. You're buying the house and car as a whole. Tradesmen get paid for labour by the hour - in general, DJs do not. Sure, labour is provided but it's normally inclusive of the "package" price. This is reason I feel it's very unfair to be comparing DJs to tradesmen in this way.

[Excalibur]

I disagree. When clients are hiring us they are buying a service as a whole regardless of how long it takes us to deliver that service..
And I disagree with you. When I'm building fences, I have thousands of pounds worth ( at new prices ) of tools to let me finish the job in hours, rather than days. Faster I work, more ( per hour ) I earn. I don't think punters would pay extra cos you'd wound the decks up to maximum and got fifty extra tracks in. :D:D

[bmdj]

Perhaps its as simple as people can relate when you break it down to what it costs per hour. I personally have quoted both as a whole and per hour. After all thats how the majority of everyone else gets paid, unless you are on a salary. But if you quote a whole price then they ask you to do another hour, you would quote them a price then or say its part of the service they have paid for? I know my reply would be, "cross my palm with silver!"

Recently I have found it easier to quote an hourly rate then have addons at an hourly rate on top, people can understand it, and it quantifies for them the extra costs involved. This way they might even consider an extra, like text to screen or photos on a big screen,etc... But I'm also happy to give someone a complete price if they tell me what they want. Either way its six of one and half a dozen of the other!

[funkymook]

Perhaps its as simple as people can relate when you break it down to what it costs per hour. I personally have quoted both as a whole and per hour. After all thats how the majority of everyone else gets paid, unless you are on a salary. But if you quote a whole price then they ask you to do another hour, you would quote them a price then or say its part of the service they have paid for? I know my reply would be, "cross my palm with silver!"

Recently I have found it easier to quote an hourly rate then have addons at an hourly rate on top, people can understand it, and it quantifies for them the extra costs involved. This way they might even consider an extra, like text to screen or photos on a big screen,etc... But I'm also happy to give someone a complete price if they tell me what they want. Either way its six of one and half a dozen of the other!


Extra hours are easy to deal with, your evening rate covers up to 5 hours playing time from 7-12 and extra hours and add-ons are chargeable, that's fairly standard.

My whole evening is taken regardless of how many hours I play - I've never had a problem explaining that concept to a client.

I don't want to get involved with haggling over an 8pm start rather than a 7pm start (or early finish) because I've broken it down to an hourly rate for them, that's just an invitation to see where a few quid can be saved - I can't make up that shortfall in my wages.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

(It looks like this HAS turned in to a pricing thread in the end doesn't it)
I agree with you Martin. If you start breaking down the price into an hourly rate, it gives those looking to save a few quid here and there a chance to disect the price to see where the savings cane be made. It's not something that I am interested in.

I've said it a few times over the years but my thinking is that the customer is paying for my time, experience and skills. They aren't that interested in the equipment I use to do the job that they've booked me for. I'll have a general set price for 4.5hrs and I'll quote for that. The price may increase if a bigger set up is required because of the number of people or if the venue is out of my travel radius.

I had 2 meetings yesterday for upcoming weddings with uplighting at different venues. One out of town and the other in town. Both were quoted the same price. One of the uplighting jobs is possibly the easiest I will ever do and will be set up in 10 minutes but it hasn't been priced cheaper because of this because it's still the same service and will create the same effect. I don't mean to go off on a different tangent here.
It's too early and I am confusing myself so I will stop now but what I do find interesting is that there are a number of operators out there that are quoting the same-ish prices as me for the same services yet there are some that are way above and I can't see how they are doing it. One of the customers yesterday who booked me last year for their wedding at the end of February this year told me that someone had quoted them nearly 2.5 times the price that I am charging for exactly the same thing. I usually have an answer as to why this may be and will advise the customer or tell them what I think personally but I really couldn't justify why they would be charging what they do. At the end of the day, good luck to them if they are getting bookings at that price. I worry about what I am doing rather than what others are doing. I've ended up with a pretty decently priced job out of it so I'm happy.

[NXDisco]

First thing that came to my mind was the music. I think people think we steal it!! I came to this conclusion that if every track you own costs 0.89p (standard amazon cost) and for example, you have 20,000 tracks.. Doesn't take a genius to work out thats nearly £18,000 tied up in YOUR TOOLS.

Throw in another £2,000 (very basic rig) in equipment, and your going out with £20,000 worth of tools. Thats not including the £5000 van, PAT, PLI and everything else.

Blows his measly £7,000 out the window!!!

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

It's too early and I am confusing myself so I will stop now but what I do find interesting is that there are a number of operators out there that are quoting the same-ish prices as me for the same services yet there are some that are way above and I can't see how they are doing it. One of the customers yesterday who booked me last year for their wedding at the end of February this year told me that someone had quoted them nearly 2.5 times the price that I am charging for exactly the same thing. I usually have an answer as to why this may be and will advise the customer or tell them what I think personally but I really couldn't justify why they would be charging what they do. At the end of the day, good luck to them if they are getting bookings at that price. I worry about what I am doing rather than what others are doing. I've ended up with a pretty decently priced job out of it so I'm happy.

Who knows why the person has quoted their price way above yours? Maybe they're unreasonable about their pricing or didn't really want the gig. Maybe they've been offered it before so are sticking with it. If you can't quantify it then there's a good chance people looking at booking with next to know technical knowledge will be even more flumoxed why 2 seemingly identical packages are the same (except for price) and you not only get an edge on the booking, but come across as a bargain. :beer1:

I lay out clearly what I offer as part of my price so the booker is well aware of what they're getting. I think this is key to securing higher paid bookings over Johnny Crate-of-Beer. I now look on it as: it's up to me to convince a client why I'm worth bookinh at price £X, not why the gumtree cowboy isn't worth booking at price £y.

Some clients don't go for that and that's fine by me and I do spend a fair amount of time corresponding with enquiries before a booking is made but if they know my price is £x and for that they get everything I've detailed, it sounds a lot better to them than "My price for 5 hours is...."

[NKR]

Gosh that got heated.

The reality is that 9 times out of 10 once someone comes back thinking you are charging way too much and comparing it against their own trade, then you are on a road to nowhere.

I have learnt to just let it be and move onto someone more receptive to the idea of what you do.

[DazzyD]

Gosh that got heated.

The reality is that 9 times out of 10 once someone comes back thinking you are charging way too much and comparing it against their own trade, then you are on a road to nowhere.

I have learnt to just let it be and move onto someone more receptive to the idea of what you do.

Very true.

[DJ Jules]

Gosh that got heated.

The reality is that 9 times out of 10 once someone comes back thinking you are charging way too much and comparing it against their own trade, then you are on a road to nowhere.

I have learnt to just let it be and move onto someone more receptive to the idea of what you do.

:agree: While there are plenty of reasons why DJ's fees are justified, you're right - once someone starts comparing your services on this basis you're not likely to change their mind.

Until they see what they get for £x/hr, by which time it's too late...

Julian

[chrisj]

You couldn't say better Jules. I often get enqiries from prospective client who say the last disco they went to was all played off a laptop and the dj didn't have a microphone or that they were conned into thinking they were booking a djwho had a great sound and light system but turned up with a far less than expected.

I have confirmed some gigs with some of these people but often say sorry I am booked. Can't win 'em all.