Booked under false pretence? [Archive] - Mobile Disco Directory Forum

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

29-01-2013, 08:54 PM

Have any of you ever been booked under false pretences?

Happened to me once and it was an agency gig so there wasn't much I could do. 30th turned to a 21st to an 18th to a 17th by the time I got there :muppet: To be fair, it might have been the agency who were leading me up the path and not the client.

Anyways I got thinking about it because I picked up a deposit for a charity fundraiser tonight.

The contact has been through the mother of a girl who wants to raise funds for a local children's hospital.

I'm very supportive of that so gave them a great rate and threw in some free extras.

When I picked up the deposit tonight the girl mentioned that she was turning 18 a few weeks before the fundraiser and said something along the lines of: "I didn't want an 18th, I wanted a fundraiser instead" and mentioned that there'd be a massive range of people there including teachers and so on.

It was only on the way home that it ran through my mind: What if she's at it and this is just an 18th or a school night out they're trying to keep under the radar whether that's so they get money off or incase the venue calls it off.

I don't think it is, the girl and her mum seemed nice enough and they showed me a mock up of the tickets they're planning on selling but you never know. I'm covered anyway, my booking form and contracts specifically mention the event purpose so if I turn up and there's a big cake in the corner I can walk away or ask for my full amount.

Anything like that ever happened to you folk?

surround sounds

29-01-2013, 09:37 PM

Yes around 2 years ago a took a fundraiser gig on at a very low price cause it was for Charity (i was told for breast cancer)
I used to do 2 fundraisers a year and now i do none for this very reason..
I turned up early like a normally do and started setting up. As always i asked behind the bar if party is for Miss _____ and a fundraiser for breast cancer. The reply was yes and she had reduced her prices for this fundraiser..
Now i finished setting up a good hour before i started and someone came with a cake but left it in a box. 10 mins later someone came with balloon decorations with one balloon in a bunch of 3 saying Happy Birthday. I asked the balloon person if she had came to the correct venue because its for Breast cancer, She said yes and it was booked by the same person who booked me. So i opened the cake box to no surprise to me it said Happy 30th Birthday on it.
Anyway around 20mins before should of started the lady who booked me came over and thanked me for being on time and for a lovely set up.
I then asked her if it was for Charity and she said yes. I replied and said why as balloons got happy Birthday on. She just went bright red and said it was a mistake by the balloon company. I also said i asked the balloon company if the balloons was delivered to the correct venue and they said yes.
The lady still said no its a mistake.
I then stated i can understand one person making a mistake but not 2 people.
She said why 2 people?
I said your cake maker must of got it wrong as well cause its got happy 30th Birthday on it.
She then admitted it was for a birthday but there was a raffle for breast cancer.
I then stated the booking forms stated Fundraiser and not birthday and i would be packing away and going home.
Any way to cut a very long story short, I got paid 80% of my normal fee and we had a good night in the end

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

29-01-2013, 09:43 PM

That's shocking.

I think if they were that brazen about it I'd just pack my stuff up and not even give them the chance to pay up on principle.

funkymook

29-01-2013, 09:50 PM

That's shocking.

I think if they were that brazen about it I'd just pack my stuff up and not even give them the chance to pay up on principle.

Me too - I would've hung around for the raffle though!

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

29-01-2013, 09:54 PM

Sack that. I once won 6 cans of lager at a boys football club raffle I DJ'd at and was nearly strung up.

I didn't even pick the bloody ticket!!!

ukpartydj

29-01-2013, 09:57 PM

I don't alter my prices for charity or different age groups I do it based on what time of day as nd how long I'm thier for, have done charity gigs for free because I knew it was for a charity my family support.wouldnt trust clients though.

My thoughts are its lovely your supporting your charity but I am a business, and I doubt I'll get any real paying work from it

Vectis

29-01-2013, 10:03 PM

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

29-01-2013, 10:06 PM

I was once booked to do a 30th - fairly low key affair at a local yacht club - and it turned out to be a wedding reception... the B&G had been and got married without telling anyone :)

They were a lovely couple and a great night was had despite me not having their first choice of first dance (well if they'd told me ...) - so I really didn't begrudge them the gig. Probably wouldn't have charged much more in any case as it was a dead simple setup.

Yeah I was also thinking that if I was booked for a party and it turned out to be a wedding, it wouldn't bother me as much because they wouldn't have received the extra planning, meetings etc... that go along with weddings.

DeckstarDeluxe

29-01-2013, 10:53 PM

I actually charge the same fee be it a wedding, xmas night or 18th...

vinamtaylor

30-01-2013, 07:43 AM

I charge my full fee then make a donation from myself during the evening based on what the charity is and how much is raised on the night.

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

30-01-2013, 07:56 AM

I charge my full fee then make a donation from myself during the evening based on what the charity is and how much is raised on the night.

That's a cool idea. My worry would be clients would think you were going to stiff them with the donation.

funkymook

30-01-2013, 08:11 AM

That's a cool idea. My worry would be clients would think you were going to stiff them with the donation.

There's no need to mention it beforehand, then it's a nice surprise if you do and no harm if you don't for any reason.

JTRS

30-01-2013, 07:04 PM

A few months ago I got a call from a local agency asking if I could do a wedding, when they told me it was a 2PM start and a midnight finish (ie a 10 hour party), I asked if it was a travellers wedding and was told quite adamantly that it wasn't. When I asked for a number so I could talk to the bride and groom to discuss music and what the first dance would be the agency told me that there was no first dance and the music needed to be Reggae and High Energy/Trance, so I asked again if it was a travellers wedding and was again told no it wasn't.

The fee was pretty good, collect it in cash on the day (which was the following day) so I agreed to do it, adding that I didn't do travellers weddings unless it was from a group that I had previous dealings with (I've done a few and if you get a good crowd then it's a great party, but pick the wrong crowd and it's a nightmare).

So, being slightly suspicious I turn up at the venue at 11.30 that morning, the room is in the middle of been decorated and on the table is THE most fabulous wedding cake, ice sculptured fairy castle, water running through it and probably the biggest cake I have ever seen. The people decorating the room tell me it cost over £4000!!! So I threw in a sneaky comment about travellers liking cakes like that and don't mind forking out for a wedding to which they didn't correct me about it not being a travellers wedding.

Then the venue manager comes in and I asked him if this was the travellers wedding room and he asks if I am the DJ, I told him I wasn't and that I had been asked to drop something off for the florist. I asked him if I looked like a DJ and he replied that he was just checking because the DJ wasn't to be told it was a travellers wedding. When I asked how that would work because surely it would be obvious when they arrived he replied Yes, but by then it will be too late, he'll be all set up and won't dare take his gear away when they are here.

So I aksed if he'd seen the florist and when he said no I told him they were probably at the other function and I'd head over there and deliver what I had to give them.

Later that day the phone rings and it's the agency asking where I am and why I'm not at the venue so I played dumb and pretended that they had asked me and I'd told them I was already booked for today and they must be confusing me with another DJ that they had rung after me.

Whilst it may or may not have been a good party to do (the fee was certainly good) I just had a bad feeling about it, particularly when both the agency and venue were not being completely honest.

JTRS

DeckstarDeluxe

30-01-2013, 08:25 PM

Sorry JTRS but thats not cricket. Should of called the agency and told them that you are no longer willing to do the event. Not giving us other DJs a good name there with your behaviour....

surround sounds

30-01-2013, 08:32 PM

PureWeddingDJs

30-01-2013, 10:17 PM

Jtrs was right to walk away. getting lied to like that. didn't have to lie about not being the dj though.

JTRS

30-01-2013, 10:47 PM

Sorry JTRS but thats not cricket. Should of called the agency and told them that you are no longer willing to do the event. Not giving us other DJs a good name there with your behaviour....

Had the agency been honest with me then I'd agree with you about calling the agency but then again if they had been honest then the situation wouldn't have arisen.

Consider this, the agency then give my details on to the travellers and tell them that it is me who has let them down, and they conveniently leave out the part where they denied it was a travellers wedding. Hmmmm not the sort of trouble I want knocking on my door.

JTRS

funkymook

30-01-2013, 10:53 PM

Had the agency been honest with me then I'd agree with you about calling the agency but then again if they had been honest then the situation wouldn't have arisen.

Consider this, the agency then give my details on to the travellers and tell them that it is me who has let them down, and they conveniently leave out the part where they denied it was a travellers wedding. Hmmmm not the sort of trouble I want knocking on my door.

JTRS

Good relationship with your agency then......

DeckstarDeluxe

30-01-2013, 11:04 PM

JTRS

30-01-2013, 11:51 PM

Good relationship with your agency then......

Perhaps I should have explained in my original post that this was an agency that I had never dealt with previously and were simply ringing round trying to find any DJ that could fulfil their booking (which was alarm bell number 1), they didn't want a fee and had said that the full fee would be paid on the day in cash (alarm bell number 2).

There are two agencies that use me on an 'as and when basis', both of which I have a very good relationship with and neither of them would have pulled a stroke like this, so to answer your post, yes good relationships with my agencies and no relationship whatsoever with this agency.

JTRS

STEVE HANLEY

31-01-2013, 12:32 PM

I must admit I'm shocked. What sort of agency would lie to con a DJ into taking a gig?

DazzyD

31-01-2013, 12:42 PM

I must admit I'm shocked. What sort of agency would lie to con a DJ into taking a gig?

Quite a few of them, I'd guess. Especially ones that are looking to cover a one-off short notice gig and are not expecting having to deal with the same DJ in the future.

Welcome to the real world, Steve!!

DeckstarDeluxe

31-01-2013, 01:12 PM

dj foureyes

31-01-2013, 01:38 PM

Agent might not of behaved in a brilliant fashion but you can't just simply bugger off if you're not happy with the gig.

Calling the agent, discussing the situation and explaining you're not longer happy to perform means the ball is back in his/her court. Not turning up is just not acceptable behaviour and I'm still rather shocked by this truth be told.

I must agree with Neil, although I can also see the reasoning in not wanting to do the gig. JTRS, if this was a one off with this agency and knowing that he was inclined to lie to his Djs, why didn't you just pass the booking back to the Agent on the grounds that you were deliberately kept in the dark? Surely you wouldn't want to work for him again?

lazersounds

31-01-2013, 04:52 PM

I agree that it would have been best to call the agency and tell them to find someone else, Buy I do understand the reasons for not wanting to do the gig having past experience myself. :zip:

What would have also made me walk would be the fact it was cash on the night and what would happen should equipment get damaged/stolen or you ended up not being paid for the gig, I can't see the agent being bothered as it sounds like it was a last minute verbal agreement with no contract or t&c in place.

I cannot believe there are still agents out there who act like this one did, it seems hardly surprising he could not find anyone to cover it from his books and turned to looking up websites etc if that is how they treat everyone. Bet he took a nice chunk of cash for going to the trouble of finding someone as well

JTRS

31-01-2013, 06:03 PM

why didn't you just pass the booking back to the Agent on the grounds that you were deliberately kept in the dark?

Quite simply because I wanted ZERO comeback from the travellers.

Imagine a scenario like this

Agency : I'm sorry Mr Traveller but the DJ has refused to do the booking because you are travellers, we had it all arranged for you but the DJ let us down

Traveller : Who was the DJ, so we know not to book him again

Agency : His name is X his phone number is Y

Put either my name or my mobile number into Google and within minutes you have my address, and like I said I don't want that kind of trouble coming to my door.

The time difference between me finding out it was travellers and the start of the party was about 2 hours, do you seriously think that an agancy who had obviously rung everyone they knew and couldn't get anyone to take it (despite the huge fee) and had then started ringing round anyone they could find via the web was then going to be able to find someone else. And, do you really think that they are going to tell the travellers that they were underhand in the first place?

Anyone who has ever had bad dealings with the travelling community will know exactly where I am coming from, so if you have to ask then you really have no idea.

(Perhaps we whould change the title of this thread to Booked Under False Pretences - Justify Your Actions)

JTRS

STEVE HANLEY

31-01-2013, 06:33 PM

[Traveller : Who was the DJ, so we know not to book him again

Agency : His name is X his phone number is Y]

Wouldn't this then not breach Customer/Client Confidentiality blah blah blah on the agents part?

Jim - Scotland's Party DJ

31-01-2013, 06:37 PM

Wouldn't this then not breach Customer/Client Confidentiality blah blah blah on the agents part?

If the agent is going to lie about the gig then I doubt that is high on their list of priorities...

JTRS

31-01-2013, 06:42 PM

Agent might not of behaved in a brilliant fashion

Are you for real or is that a joke?

but you can't just simply bugger off if you're not happy with the gig.

Err yes I can, who exactly decided that I have to answer to you?

Whilst it is perfectly acceptable to state what YOU would have done it is quite the opposite to adopt a condescending attitude, perhaps you would care to rephrase your post?

JTRS

funkymook

31-01-2013, 06:44 PM

JTRS

31-01-2013, 06:49 PM

Wouldn't this then not breach Customer/Client Confidentiality blah blah blah on the agents part?

I thought it was the norm for agencies to give the number of the client to the DJ and vice versa. Certainly the ones I do regular work for do so.

JTRS

STEVE HANLEY

31-01-2013, 06:55 PM

I thought it was the norm for agencies to give the number of the client to the DJ and vice versa. Certainly the ones I do regular work for do so.

JTRS

So the client may have already been given your name and number then?

JTRS

31-01-2013, 07:01 PM

So the client may have already been given your name and number then?

No, read back to the part where I told the agency that they had offered me it but I was already booked elsewhere and it must have been some other DJ that they rang after me. My money is on them ringing anyone and everyone and probably had that many numbers and had made that many calls they lost track.

Also my vehicle was never the subject of an arson attack in the middle of the night (not a joke by the way some of the Yorkshire DJ's will know who and what I am referring to)

JTRS

STEVE HANLEY

31-01-2013, 07:06 PM

No, read back to the part where I told the agency that they had offered me it but I was already booked elsewhere and it must have been some other DJ that they rang after me. My money is on them ringing anyone and everyone and probably had that many numbers and had made that many calls they lost track.

Also my vehicle was never the subject of an arson attack in the middle of the night (not a joke by the way some of the Yorkshire DJ's will know who and what I am referring to)

JTRS

I don't work for agencies mate. So fair play, but that one sounds like a right Mickey Mouse outfit

Excalibur

31-01-2013, 08:12 PM

DeckstarDeluxe

31-01-2013, 09:22 PM

Are you for real or is that a joke?

Err yes I can, who exactly decided that I have to answer to you?

Whilst it is perfectly acceptable to state what YOU would have done it is quite the opposite to adopt a condescending attitude, perhaps you would care to rephrase your post?

JTRS

I stand by word for word what I said and I find your excuse for just leaving "laughable". Totally unprofessional.

Corabar Entertainment

31-01-2013, 10:35 PM

I honestly can't say I'd judge anyone for walking away in these circumstances. I would've told them though.

JTRS

31-01-2013, 10:57 PM

I stand by word for word what I said and I find your excuse for just leaving "laughable". Totally unprofessional.

Would you still find my excuse for leaving without a trail back to my door laughable if you were woken up in the middle of a night by a loud explosion and then looking out of your window you see your van and your car in flames on your driveway?

This actually happened to a DJ about 18 months ago, he knows who did it but he has zero proof, and those who know him know who he had a bad party with the week before.

Like I said I have done a few travellers parties and they have all been very good ones, but that comes form knowing who you are working for beforehand.

JTRS

DazzyD

01-02-2013, 06:47 AM

Personally if I was that worried about repercussions I wouldn't have posted the story on a forum, especially if it was only a few months ago.

You never know who could find this thread, the clients, the agency, the venue, the other suppliers, the replacement DJ, a competitor with a grudge etc.

This is a good point, mind!

I stand by word for word what I said and I find your excuse for just leaving "laughable". Totally unprofessional.

I disagree with this comment and actually find it quite insulting. Life isn't all roses and happy times, you know. If I was confronted with this situation, I'm sure there'd be an element of fear coming in to play and fear makes people behave irrationally. From the experiences JTRS details, then I'm sure that this is the case here. Maybe not a "professional" act but would you tell a large group of travellers that you're withdrawing from their booking because the agent lied to you? Or would you want a sub-standard agent telling them on your behalf? This is the real world and bad things do happen, you know. You should see what goes on in real big business! ;)

I honestly can't say I'd judge anyone for walking away in these circumstances. I would've told them though.

I agree. I would like to think I'd play it straight down the line but, not having been in this situation, I can't guarantee that. Self-presevation is a human trait, after all! And I certainly wouldn't put anyone down for any snap decisions they did in a scenario such as this.

DeckstarDeluxe

01-02-2013, 11:35 AM

I disagree with this comment and actually find it quite insulting. Life isn't all roses and happy times, you know. If I was confronted with this situation, I'm sure there'd be an element of fear coming in to play and fear makes people behave irrationally. From the experiences JTRS details, then I'm sure that this is the case here. Maybe not a "professional" act but would you tell a large group of travellers that you're withdrawing from their booking because the agent lied to you? Or would you want a sub-standard agent telling them on your behalf? This is the real world and bad things do happen, you know. You should see what goes on in real big business! ;)

The walking away from the gig I have no issue with, but you'd least tell the agent "listen you lied to me so clearly you're worried about something so on those grounds I'm no longer happy to do the event". Even if you had to lie about being ill at least the agent has time to replace the DJ.

If he didn't then what happens, client goes to the agent after a no show and what do you think the agent is going to say? 99/100 he sends them in the direction of the DJ..

JTRS

01-02-2013, 01:02 PM

If he didn't then what happens, client goes to the agent after a no show and what do you think the agent is going to say? 99/100 he sends them in the direction of the DJ..

Well either I was the 1/100 or your suggested figure of 99/100 is just a number you have made up, because no-one came in my direction.

If I had done it the way you suggest then more than likely the client would have been pointed in my direction (which you should by now have realised is the last thing I wanted), however since the agent was then unsure as to who he had arranged to DJ the function then nothing was then going to be coming my way.

What you are failing to grasp is that had I been told exactly what the function was then I would have would have refused it at first point of contact, however the actions of the agency removed this option from me, so I am then forced to take whatever action I SEE fit (that's I SEE not YOU see because YOU were not in that position at that time) to safely extracate myself and my equipment.

JTRS

ukpartydj

01-02-2013, 01:52 PM

99/100 he sends them in the direction of the DJ..

Agree, this situation would never arise with myself as I don't take bookings without contracts deposits and I certainly wouldn't lie to a DJ.
However my instructions to the client are - Here is the DJ's name and contact number - if he hasn't turned up at the time specified please give him a call, if you cannot get hold of him give me a call.
Putting myself in the shoes of the client I would ALWAYS blame the DJ and feel sorry that I now have to complain about the agency.

however since the agent was then unsure as to who he had arranged to DJ the function then nothing was then going to be coming my way.

Although it does seem quite plausible the agent would have to be extremely unorganised or have memory issues. When somebody confirms a gig with myself the details are printed, added to my database and maybe saved in my emails and most importantly my head! Even more so if it was a difficult one to cover.

My opinion on the whole thing is if the venue is happy to have these travelers (keeping in mind there are many different types of traveler, from my experience fairground travelers being far from the stereotype) I'd be happy to DJ for them - sure they may be a pain but there are plenty of people out their that cause trouble.

The chances are that the travelers you were meant to do a wedding for weren't going to burn your van or steal your stuff and quite possibly didn't even tell the agent they were travelers, I did a Christmas party for some travelers last year and yes they aren't the easiest crowd to please and they do like to be a pain but if you're going to treat people differently they are going to act differently.

JTRS

01-02-2013, 04:41 PM

My opinion on the whole thing is if the venue is happy to have these travelers (keeping in mind there are many different types of traveler, from my experience fairground travelers being far from the stereotype) I'd be happy to DJ for them - sure they may be a pain but there are plenty of people out their that cause trouble.

Possibly, possibly not. Consider this though, if something does kick off the venue would more than likely sustain cosmetic damage (glasses, tables, chairs, maybe a window or two), I doubt I would be so lucky with my equipment (or me for that matter, I'm not behind a solid bar with shutters that pull down in seconds)

The chances are that the travelers you were meant to do a wedding for weren't going to burn your van or steal your stuff and quite possibly didn't even tell the agent they were travelers, I did a Christmas party for some travelers last year and yes they aren't the easiest crowd to please and they do like to be a pain but if you're going to treat people differently they are going to act differently.

I'm the first to agree that some sections of the travelling community are a delight to work for, but there is another side to that coin. Without been given the chance to ascertain which camp (no pun intended) these ones were then I would err on the side of caution.

It's so easy to hypothesise now about what you would or wouldn't have done, hindsight is a wonderful thing, as is posting from the safety of a cosy office about what should or should not have happened. But I didn't have that luxury, I had to make a snap judgement call in a matter of seconds. My brain tells me the agency lied (who else would have told the venue not to tell the DJ they were travellers until they were set up and guests arrived), the venue were less than honest and the agency is ringing around offering it to anyone and everyone, something was behind that deceit.

What I can say with certainty is that I walked away safe, my equipment was safe so my decision to do it the way I did it was 100% right, that is a fact and nobody has the right to tell me what I should have done (yes you have the right to suggest an alternative or to state how you would have handled it, but anything beyond that is both condescending and insulting), and what you cannot say with certainty is doing it the way you suggest would have left both my equipment and me intact, ergo it's a no brainer (as apt as that is).

JTRS

Corabar Entertainment

01-02-2013, 04:54 PM

With the benefit of hindsight, if you had to do it all over again, would you ring the agent and make up something - eg illness, or breakdown, to at least give them a chance to try and get cover?

JTRS

01-02-2013, 05:19 PM

With the benefit of hindsight, if you had to do it all over again, would you ring the agent and make up something - eg illness, or breakdown, to at least give them a chance to try and get cover?

That's something I've thought about quite a bit since reading some of the replies to my original post.

If it was the same agent who pulled the same strokes and the same story at the venue then yes I probably would because that is a sure-fire guarantee that I get zero comeback.

Feigning illness/breakdown or any other excuse could potentially lead to me being 'in the frame' with the wrong people and since the agency was less than honest with me then God knows what story they would tell the client. Yes I accept I said potentially, so there is always the possibility that it wouldn't have, but I'm factoring in who the clients were, and without wanting to steroetype it does have a bearing on my decision. In this particular instance would 2 hours have been enough time for them to get cover elsewhere, again I don't know but by the time they got to me they'd pretty much tried everyone else (I'm not the easiest to find because I don't advertise nor do I have a website because I'm busy enough just servicing the venues that recommend me, hence why I'm not bothered about being totally honest about the incident on here, if you know my phone number then you can find my details on the internet, but if you don't have it then I'm pretty much a needle in a haystack).

This answer might be somewhat alien to many of you, particularly those who run agencies but that's probably because you wouldn't act as the agency in question did.

If the booking had come from an agency that does use me then I'd have been 100% sure that they were unaware it was travellers and having an honest discussion with them about the situation would most certainly have been what I would have done. Maybe I'm guilty of treating others as they treat me, if so I can live with that.

JTRS

ukpartydj

01-02-2013, 06:36 PM

15374In a way what you did was a good way of telling both the agent and the client that they shouldn't mess with you, I think it was a bit mean to have left the agent (who sounds like they've had a lot of hassle covering this one) in the :Censored:.

back to the original topic I've just remembered a gig which I was given false info from an agent -

The day before I was told it was a PA hire for a presentation that a plant machinery hire company was doing, I was told it was inside a sort of airport hanger and that wireless microphones would be useful (I told them that I didn't have any and they said it shouldn't be a problem).

Trying to keep the client happy I went out a bought some from Maplins (oddly enough they aren't all that bad).

When I got there it was indeed a plant machinery hire company, what I found out was that the "presentation" was a bloody Diggerland show and they wanted the speakers on 2 corners of the huge arena which was actually outdoors! The power point was quite far away but luckily I have an extention cable (25m) but honestly that didn't do half of what they actually wanted and I needed to borrow another 25m extention lead to just make the speakers fit on one corner (As pictured) and they only just got to that point. My van is parked just out of the picture with my mixer and laptop inside the back of the van and me DJing some background music in between events. I used all of my XLR cables including spares (8 cables) to make the signal cable long enough!
Oh and the wireless microphones ... if I hadn't have got them I'm not really sure how the presenter who was wondering around the middle of the areana would have got on with a wired Mic especially as later on it turns out he is one of the stunt drivers and was using it at the same time as doing stunts in a JCB!

To top it all off it started raining and I got my tarp from my van and covered my speakers up until it stopped. Very eventful day and quite far off what I bargained for.
I found out that the wireless Mic's have a very good range and managed to get more along the line of 130m range rather than 50m stated on the packaging.
Also my speakers were audiable (not sounding great) at the other side of the arena and quite clear. Whilst 4 JCB's where doing stunts the drivers claimed they could still hear the presenter talking quite clearly!
And I experienced first hand how crap cheap subs sound in the open.