Well that was awkward

[Djanddisco]

Just been for a meeting with a hotel manager about a possibly residency, he asked my to take my equipment so he could see what it looked like. Anyway I was unloading the van when a car drove round the back of the hotel (where there was no need for anyone to go) the driver slowed right down and started looking in the van, as I walked over the drive opened his window and asked if I was djing there tomorrow night, I said no I was just setting up a pa then realised he must have been the current dj when he asked if they were thinking of taking me on.

Anyway the manager seemed impressed with me and the setup so suppose ill just have to wait an see the outcome...

Hope the current Dj isn't on here:zip:

[djeddie]

...Hope the current Dj isn't on here:zip:

If he is, he is! Don't worry about it, it's not your fault they're looking for a new DJ. It's not like you went to the hotel to purposely undercut and slate the current DJ... is it?

[Djanddisco]

If he is, he is! Don't worry about it, it's not your fault they're looking for a new DJ. It's not like you went to the hotel to purposely undercut and slate the current DJ... is it?

No of course not, I knew nothing about this dj before going the hotel,they called me out of the blue saying they wanted a dj with a more up to date rig.
By the sounds of it, it's his own fault they're getting rid, apparently he has gotten a bit too comfortable there and stands in front of his equipment in full view of the guests whilst they're eating and rolls cigarettes.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Sounds like it's the guys own fault.

More to the point, if he is doing stuff like rolling fags in front of people eating and so on, it just perpetrates the idea that all DJs are ten a penny cowboys so the more of them that get found out and shunted, the better.

[Djanddisco]

Sounds like it's the guys own fault.

More to the point, if he is doing stuff like rolling fags in front of people eating and so on, it just perpetrates the idea that all DJs are ten a penny cowboys so the more of them that get found out and shunted, the better.

Yes I completely agree.

I've just found out though that part of the reason they are getting rid is because the hotel bought a 2 page spread in the local newspaper and they wanted the dj to put an quarter page advertisement in and contribute £150 but because he declined the owner fell out with him.

Not sure I want to work here now if that's the way they work, got another meeting with them tomorrow to discuss costs.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Yes I completely agree.

I've just found out though that part of the reason they are getting rid is because the hotel bought a 2 page spread in the local newspaper and they wanted the dj to put an quarter page advertisement in and contribute £150 but because he declined the owner fell out with him.

Not sure I want to work here now if that's the way they work, got another meeting with them tomorrow to discuss costs.

Hmmm without knowing their situation it's not really fair to comment but if they're essentially trying to force him to fork out for advertising he doesn't want or need then they sound a bit sketchy too.

Doesn't make it OK for him to act unprofessionally though. If they do offer you a slot, make sure you know exactly what you're getting into.

[DazzyD]

Yes I completely agree.

I've just found out though that part of the reason they are getting rid is because the hotel bought a 2 page spread in the local newspaper and they wanted the dj to put an quarter page advertisement in and contribute £150 but because he declined the owner fell out with him.

Not sure I want to work here now if that's the way they work, got another meeting with them tomorrow to discuss costs.

That sounds really dodgy to me. When I've been doing residencies, I've never been asked to contribute to the advertising costs of the venue!! I have, in fairness, advertised some of my nights myself but not in this way.

I agree that you need to know what you're getting in to here. However, on the flip side, if you can get an extra guaranteed four/five-figure sum annually from the work that the hotel gives to you then, to some, it may not sound like a bad investment. Plus, if you word your quarter-page advert correctly then you might even pull in some work outside of the hotel. Saying that, £150 for a one-off quarter-page ad in a local newspaper could be classed as "throwaway" advertising - ie people see it once then chuck it in the bin. If it's not what they're looking for at that point in time, then it's unlikely they'll keep the paper for future reference. I think you've got to weigh up the pros and cons on this one.

[Excalibur]

That sounds really dodgy to me. When I've been doing residencies, I've never been asked to contribute to the advertising costs of the venue!! I have, in fairness, advertised some of my nights myself but not in this way.
.

Oh my child, what sheltered life you have led. :D Been there, done that............................................

Many venues get a tad sniffy if you use the line of reasoning: " Well since I'm the resident, I get all the work anyway, so why should I spend money on something that won't do me any good at all?" Then you get badgered into taking out your advert.

Hint: Tell the brochure provider you can't afford the cost. Before long, the price should halve at least.

[Djanddisco]

The hotel reckon they gave him £11k worth of bookings last year, if that's the case then I suppose a £150 outlay is not bad at all, I still don't think it's right forcing this on somebody.

[yourdj]

The hotel reckon they gave him £11k worth of bookings last year, if that's the case then I suppose a £150 outlay is not bad at all, I still don't think it's right forcing this on somebody.

How many in-house weddings and corporates do they do?
Assuming they do 30 events a year at £300 thats not too bad.
It could be 50 events a year at £200 however and so on.

My venue only does about 70 weddings on average and its pretty large/busy so thats not too bad.
The fee is more than £300 though.

I am super funny about venues and don't trust any of them. the one i am in is a good one and they support me as much as I support them.
I would have aloof about and see how well run it is and how happy the staff are as that will ultimately affect their behaviour towards you.

And don't pay for the advertising - they are just trying to save some cash as printing these things are very expensive.
stall them and at least get it half price as i have almost been conned by hotel advertising people before. :)

[DazzyD]

Oh my child, what sheltered life you have led. :D Been there, done that............................................

Many venues get a tad sniffy if you use the line of reasoning: " Well since I'm the resident, I get all the work anyway, so why should I spend money on something that won't do me any good at all?" Then you get badgered into taking out your advert.

Hint: Tell the brochure provider you can't afford the cost. Before long, the price should halve at least.

Ah, although I opened with the paragraph you quoted, this was because it is strange to me as I have never experienced this personally. However, I did go in to possible ways of thinking business-wise and, ultimately, said it was a really a judgement call for the OP. If I was in this situation, then I would think long and hard before dismissing it out of hand. It all depends on the level of work that the venue could guarantee me.


The hotel reckon they gave him £11k worth of bookings last year, if that's the case then I suppose a £150 outlay is not bad at all, I still don't think it's right forcing this on somebody.

Oo, question answered. An outlay of £150 for a potential return of £11,000? I think that that's a no-brainer even for the most anti-risk-taking operators amongst us! But I'd have to have a written agreement giving me at least 6 months bookings as the sole supplier of disco entertainment for the venue with the contract to be reagreed after 6 months (obviously, there'd be get-out clauses written in there - standard business practise!). If the venue agrees to this then this would be a chance I'd be happy to take. I suppose if you have a stake in the advertising then you also have an interest in making your service at the venue a success. The venue owners could take reassurance from this that you're going to provide the best service you can (I'm not suggesting anyone would just coast along on the back of the venue, mind! Just trying to see things from a venue's point of view!).

[yourdj]

Have you asked why they have asked you to come along and have they asked any other suppliers?
Are they just trying to get a team of suppliers to gather for this brochure and thats it?

ask them what they like best about your service and if they don't know then question why they
if have not done the research how do they know that you are good or not.

As above it is a no brainer but you do not want to be stuck in a venue that has rubbish gigs and treats you like dirt.
Depends how your other work is going as its a bit slow around here and some DJ's would kill for a guaranteed years worth of work.

that way you can spend the quiet times in bed all day :p

[Djanddisco]

They have asked me and another provider, the reason they asked me is because a member of staff recommended me from seeing me work there before plus I've had meeting with clients there to go through their music tastes etc.

At present they have not asked me to advertise in anything, the incident with the newspaper advert was last year so as far as I'm aware they're not looking to advertise again just yet and even I they were I wouldn't be involved until I'd worked there at least 6 months and the work was as regular as they described.

With regards to fees, I've heard the last dj was only getting around £165-170 a night, I've already expressed that if this is all they want to pay I'm not interested. £135 after tax, I'd rather have my weekends to myself.

If we do come to an agreement of a fee then they also expect me to do all their wedding and open evenings for free which I don't mind too much as its better than paying to do them as I've done in the past.

Just wondering what everyone does in the way of contracts, my last residency was in a wine bar were I didn't take any equipment and this was all done on a gentlemans agreement. What I want to know is where do I stand with cancelations, damage to equipment caused by guests etc?

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Just wondering what everyone does in the way of contracts, my last residency was in a wine bar were I didn't take any equipment and this was all done on a gentlemans agreement. What I want to know is where do I stand with cancelations, damage to equipment caused by guests etc?

To me, the most obvious course of action would be to have a simple contract with the venue whereby you know exactly what you're providing (PA, lights and disco from 7-midnight for example) what they're paying and for how long (£x per gig for Y months)

Having stuff in like how much notice they need to give you for gigs (useful if you're planning on still gigging outwith the venue) what time you have access to the venue at etc... might also be useful.


As well as that, the client (or the hotel as they're essentially booking you on behalf of the actual client) signs your own contract and adheres to your usual terms. If you don't have clauses in your contract about cancelation penalties or the client being liable for any damage caused by them or the guests then I'd get that sorted asap.


This is figuratively speaking of course. Depending on what's in the venues contract and how the payments are going to be made, it might already be covered.

I'd get yourself a list of questions and stuff you need cleared up with regards to this and take it to your next meeting so you can ask them straight out how they plan on the set up working.

[Djanddisco]

To me, the most obvious course of action would be to have a simple contract with the venue whereby you know exactly what you're providing (PA, lights and disco from 7-midnight for example) what they're paying and for how long (£x per gig for Y months)

Having stuff in like how much notice they need to give you for gigs (useful if you're planning on still gigging outwith the venue) what time you have access to the venue at etc... might also be useful.


As well as that, the client (or the hotel as they're essentially booking you on behalf of the actual client) signs your own contract and adheres to your usual terms. If you don't have clauses in your contract about cancelation penalties or the client being liable for any damage caused by them or the guests then I'd get that sorted asap.


This is figuratively speaking of course. Depending on what's in the venues contract and how the payments are going to be made, it might already be covered.

I'd get yourself a list of questions and stuff you need cleared up with regards to this and take it to your next meeting so you can ask them straight out how they plan on the set up working.

My contract covers all this but my concern is they won't be happy adhering to, it's just the feeling I get after speaking with them at the last meeting. Like its been previously mentioned work has slowed down for a lot of us (me included) and although it is better paid than in previous years the shear lack of enquiries is a bit of a worry. So do I just take it anyway (if I'm offered) and just hope I don't get messed around.

I think the writing questions down is a great idea and I'm going to do that now.

Cheers

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

You really need to ask yourself if you would be happy to forego certain aspects of the contract if they're not willing to abide by them. A contract is meant to be mutually beneficial to both parties, if they pick and choose what they'll go with until it's a one sided agreement, is it worth signing one at all? You'd essentially be tying yourself into them with no real protection or recourse for yourself in the event of any mishaps.

Personally I'd be very wary if they weren't willing to cover things like any damage caused by guests or cancellations as I'm assuming they have clauses clearly covering (How's that for a bit of alliteration?:eek:) these in the venue's booking contracts. The wording of it might already cover you if it mentions 3rd parties or just need altered slightly.

If they aren't going to cover them then you're at a serious disadvantage and it would be really down to you wether you'd be happy to go along with it. I know if a prospective client got back to me and said they weren't happy with either of these clauses (or any other major one) then they'd be told where to go.

It's easy to sit on the fence and say I'd do this or that when it's not me in the situation but if I was in a position where major clauses of my (mutually beneficial) contract were being cast aside, I'd want to know their reasons why and I'd be very suspicious of the hotel's motives.

[Excalibur]

A contract is meant to be mutually beneficial to both parties, .
Here I feel may be the stumbling block. It appears to me that you need to sit down over a coffee with them, and see how far apart both sides are. Some hotels are notorious for being unwilling to stump up cancellation fees, even when they clearly apply.

It's got to be worth a chat with them, to see what the state of play is. Go in with a list of your important conditions ( and maybe send them a specimen contract beforehand to let them mull it over. ) Good luck.

[paulg]

I work with my venues not for them and a few quid to secure work seems OK. I would be very careful though, even with a contract for 6 months, if they change their minds and tore up the contract, would you go to the barricades over it?

Times are changing and so should your business model. Anyone formally offering cash back to venues for regular work?

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Anyone formally offering cash back to venues for regular work?

Explain?

As in you offer them say 10% back off every booking they throw your way?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

Explain?

As in you offer them say 10% back off every booking they throw your way?

As in you pay them a commission for every booking they pass your way. I have had this scenario several times, but refused... An admin fee, I think they called it. :eek:

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

As in you pay them a commission for every booking they pass your way. I have had this scenario several times, but refused... An admin fee, I think they called it. :eek:

It's a complete racket. A venue that charges say £5,000 for a wedding which includes your DJ is making plenty without me having to dip into my own pocket.

I'm not averse to offering a discounted rate if there's a certain amount of guaranteed work at a guaranteed price and it's a deal breaker but I'm not falling over myself to further line these venues pockets.

More to the point, up here at least, the venues that do throw in the DJ more often than not have the Gumtree / no website cowboys. I advertise in the Scottish Wedding Directory and on their forum and barely a fortnight goes by without a "Has anyone heard of Johnny Ropelights Disco? He's included with my venue but I can't find any details about him online!!!" thread.

I can't wait to see the quality of product that is offered when venues take the next step and start providing the ring and dress... ;)

[Excalibur]

An admin fee, I think they called it.
I can think of other terms to describe it. :whistle: :D:D


It's a complete racket. A venue that charges say £5,000 for a wedding which includes your DJ is making plenty without me having to dip into my own pocket.

Now I may be wrong here, but knowing how Darren in particular works, I expect the client to deal with the DJ direct, and thus pay them, rather than the hotel. This gives them input into what's required/offered, and allows the DJ to upsell things like uplighting etc. I presume that at the end of the period, the sums are done, and if you've had £10,000 worth of work, you give them say £250 to £500, or as many of you do, a free staff party, or similar.

If I'm wrong, and they take it off the top, then that would leave a sour taste for me. It could be described as somewhat underhand, in the same vein as when you buy five tickets for the theatre, you are charged five booking fees for what is one transaction, something which really annoys some members of my family.

Paul, you're spot on in many respects, but I think that there may be a division between the venues where it's not part of a chain, and the management you're dealing with ( often the owners ) have the final say. You can build up a good relationship, and everything runs like clockwork, with give and take on each side.

Then there's the chain venues, where the manager ( who's looking to be moved up a notch as soon as possible, if he makes a good job of running this place ) has but one aim in life, to maximise the figures on the balance sheet by any means, ( preferably without upsetting the customers ). Here it can be tricky to show why customer satisfaction takes precedence over "never mind the quality, feel the width".

[paulg]

Sort of, except you make the offer to pay for specific things. A voluntary levy - 5% or so.

[Jonathan Ford]

I once thought of offering a retrospective payback arrangement to a hotel. They should be pretty familiar with this type of arrangement, as many corporate travel agents operate them. Essentially, you agree to pay the hotel "£x" on the assumption that they generate revenue "£y" for you. If they achieve this, you make a payment. If, however, they only generate "£z", then you either make no payment, or a percentage of the agreed amount relative to the volume of revenue they actually did generate for you. Never actually got around to it, though....

[Djanddisco]

Quick update,
Meeting went really well yesterday, venue was a lot more understanding than I though and have agreed to insert my terms and conditions into their contracts and have promised a minimum of 8 weeks notice for cancellations. We have agreed fees that I believe we are both happy with and they may put a cut on top to line their pockets but as long as I get my fee I don't mind.

They say they have 60 bookings this year so I'm in a good mood today :beer1:

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Sweet here's hoping it works out.

[yourdj]

It would be good to know what this venue is as a browse on their website often gives things away.

i would offer an exclusive agreement where you pay them commission and they do not recommend anyone else.
2-3 years and it get renewed that sort of thing.

Just drum it into them that you will meet the clients and work much harder which in turn will make the client happy and also the guests on the night, who will rebook at the venue for a meal, a night stay or perhaps for their wedding.

Its just common sense really and I can't understand hotels hiring crap entertainment just to save £50!!

So many couples i meet say they had a rubbish night at so and so venue so booked here instead.

[Djanddisco]

Well I'm pleased to say we have come to an agreement, I'm getting the fee I want which actually makes the hotel a small loss on current bookings but they are going to adjust their fees for new booking which suits me fine.

My first gig with them is a Dirty dancing tribute night which I'm looking forward to, just trying to convince the better half to let me buy a new lighting rig now :p

[surround sounds]

All I can say i am glad i do not do residences.
I used to do them then i realised i could earn more money without them

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

All I can say i am glad i do not do residences.
I used to do them then i realised i could earn more money without them

They obviously didn't give you much work then....

[surround sounds]

They obviously didn't give you much work then....

Yes i had plenty of work from them and pay was ok but i find i can earn more money without them. Also less hassle and i prefer going to different places. I did the same venue for 7 years and done over 100 gigs a year there but its the best thing i ever did was to find my own work

[yourdj]

which actually makes the hotel a small loss

God thats a first - its normally the other way round. :)

See if you can upsell other things like uplighting or even perhaps an all day DJ service.
I have one tomorrow which effectively makes me more than double the normal fee. :)

[mattydj50]

My first gig with them is a Dirty dancing tribute night which I'm looking forward to, just trying to convince the better half to let me buy a new lighting rig now :p

I hope your Dirty Dancing tribute night goes better than mine before Christmas. 43 turned up (2 parties of 22 and 21) and the party of 22 left straight after the meal before I'd even played anything in earnest from the film! That left me 22 in a room that can hold 100 for the rest of the night supposedly til 1am! Thankfully they got fed up and left at 1130.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

A Dirty Dancing themed night you should be glad anyone turned up at all :D

[paulg]

Yes i had plenty of work from them and pay was ok but i find i can earn more money without them. Also less hassle and i prefer going to different places. I did the same venue for 7 years and done over 100 gigs a year there but its the best thing i ever did was to find my own work

I'd second that. It's also much more secure. When a residency goes, so does a good chunk of your income. You also don't have the benefit of choosing the people you work for. Gave all mine up years ago.

[DazzyD]

I'd second that. It's also much more secure. When a residency goes, so does a good chunk of your income. You also don't have the benefit of choosing the people you work for. Gave all mine up years ago.

Having lost 2 residencies in the last year, this is something I know only too well! :(

[discojohnno]

I'm pretty lucky been doing same residency for 3 years and get 5 Saturdays off every year ideally i would do every other Saturday and do private functions but while im trying to update my equipment ill still do it each week

[surround sounds]

I'm pretty lucky been doing same residency for 3 years and get 5 Saturdays off every year ideally i would do every other Saturday and do private functions but while im trying to update my equipment ill still do it each week

You may know benjamines in halesowen, I was residency there years ago. I soon moved on cause i wanted my own private functions and i was getting more money through my own work. I have been recommended by a lot of venues which i do not mind as much because i can set my own price etc

[Excalibur]

Having lost 2 residencies in the last year, this is something I know only too well! :(

Two edged sword mate, two edged sword. I had a residency which basically averaged out at least one function a week. I lost it* when about the fifth or sixth new manager took over, and decided he'd do something dynamic, by putting the work out to tender, and getting the monkeys in. Losing the work very very nearly broke me, and I had to build my customer base from scratch. It was hard work.
It was small consolation to hear how crap some of my replacements were from my customers, but the hotel didn't seem to feel the need to upgrade at that time.
Now, they're paying sensible money, and using quality performers.









* Technically, I'm still resident there, cos they've never yet told me I'm not. The swines!! :eek:

[paulg]

I tend to be the 'preferred' DJ rather than the resident. Venues either ring me direct or recommend me to their clients. It's such an easy way to do business. Since my prolonged illness, I'm now easing my way back in and thankfully I'm being welcomed back to all of my old haunts - one or two have had some horror DJ's over the last 6 months! although none of the people who they booked via here fell into that category.

[Excalibur]

I tend to be the 'preferred' DJ rather than the resident. Venues either ring me direct or recommend me to their clients. It's such an easy way to do business.

By far the best option for all concerned.



Since my prolonged illness, I'm now easing my way back in and thankfully I'm being welcomed back to all of my old haunts -
I'm really pleased to hear that. I hope you continue on the road to recovery, and get back into the swing of things.


one or two have had some horror DJ's over the last 6 months!

That's a shame, but may perhaps make them realise that not all discos are the same.


although none of the people who they booked via here fell into that category.
So glad to hear that. Many thanks for the ones you passed on to me.

[Djanddisco]

I tend to be the 'preferred' DJ rather than the resident. Venues either ring me direct or recommend me to their clients. It's such an easy way to do business. Since my prolonged illness, I'm now easing my way back in and thankfully I'm being welcomed back to all of my old haunts - one or two have had some horror DJ's over the last 6 months! although none of the people who they booked via here fell into that category.

Must admit I'm the recommended dj for another Hotel and I much prefer this, I tend to find customers are much happier to book somebody that is recommended than somebody who is practically forced on them.