Venue Restrictions

[ukpartydj]

I'm booked for a wedding in July and the couple have asked for a nightclub experience - they requested smoke, lasers loud system etc = not a problem!
Until I was sent the venue restrictions to browse over today...

No Smoke or vapour
No Strobes
Max noise 90db
No confetti cannons
No lasers (unless you have a PM19 Certificate and approval from the local laser licensing officer)
oh and worst of all... No Hypnotism (which is the backbone of how I get good client feedback).

I looked into the PM19 thing ... apparently it's a guideline which was replaced in 1996 and there is no certificate (perhaps I could award myself one!)

What is wrong with these people!

Also, is haze fluid invisible in the air?

[Retrodisco]

They need a new venue, that one is not fit for the purpose.

[funkymook]

This is where experience come in - you check all these things with the venue before you confirm what you can or can't do for the client, especially with smoke/haze (managing expectations). We've probably all been caught out like this before - just the once!

I'd arrange a meeting with the client and venue and yourself to discuss it (there may be some compromises somewhere) - and you really want the message to come from the venue in person if they can't have what they want.

[mattydj50]

No Smoke or vapour
No Strobes
Max noise 90db
No confetti cannons
No lasers (unless you have a PM19 Certificate and approval from the local laser licensing officer)
oh and worst of all... No Hypnotism (which is the backbone of how I get good client feedback).



Not a totally unreasonable list.

Most venues now insist on no smoke or vapour as it can set off the sophisticated fire detection systems employed these days. Unless you can to a trial run at the venue, they'll not let you have any. I have a blanket ban at my regular venue even after offering to borrow some units and run trials.

No strobes. Removes the risk of anyone suffering from epilepsy having a fit. Again, this is common at a lot of venues.

Max noise 90db. The good old sound limiter. Again, health and safety police in action.

No confetti cannons. Some venues will add a supplemental charge to clear up excessive mess afterwards. This venue appears to remove that need at the outset.

No lasers. Understandable if they are not fully in the know. Worth a discussion.

No hypnotysm. Why on earth would you want to send people to sleep!! Quite the reverse.


What is needed here is a meeting between the venue, the client and yourself with a robust action plan to discuss how these restrictions can be relaxed or adapted to suit. If you can be sure that you can meet the gig requirements safely then offer that you and the client indemnify the venue against any losses or liabilities caused during the night.

[ukpartydj]

They need a new venue, that one is not fit for the purpose.

Maybe... it might be perfect in every other way for them and just a pain for entertainment.


This is where experience come in - you check all these things with the venue before you confirm what you can or can't do for the client, especially with smoke/haze (managing expectations). We've probably all been caught out like this before - just the once!

I'd arrange a meeting with the client and venue and yourself to discuss it (there may be some compromises somewhere) - and you really want the message to come from the venue in person if they can't have what they want.

Indeed, I always say smoke is venue permitting and was informed there is no sound limiter however they apparently do spot checks... having a meeting fairly soon so will hopefully be able to keep everybody happy!
Does anyone find people are more accepting of haze? I might go down this road if that's the case.

[funkymook]

Does anyone find people are more accepting of haze? I might go down this road if that's the case.

Only chance is to demonstrate it onsite and show it won't set the alarms off - but chances are they'll just say no, it's not worth them taking the risk.

[Jem]

With regard to the lasers, PM19 was replaced by HS(G)95 (HSE 1996a) from the Health and Safety Executive in October 1996.

Might be worth a read here: http://www.pangolin.com/SafetyTheses/Chapter_2.pdf

I've linked to the relevant page in the document, however, for anyone interested in laser safety it might be worth a read of the entire document.

If you want to know more about laser safety it might be worth taking a laser safety course... Have a look here: http://www.lvrlimited.com/laser-safety-training.php

[DJ Jules]

Only chance is to demonstrate it onsite and show it won't set the alarms off - but chances are they'll just say no, it's not worth them taking the risk.

Given the charges levied by the fire brigade for false call outs, I don't blame them. They'll probably say no.

I went to a lovely venue in Dec that has actually modified their fire alarm system to allow Smoke to be used so it can be done. Now that's what I call service :D

I wish I could give more advice on the laser issue.

Julian

[ukpartydj]

With regard to the lasers, PM19 was replaced by HS(G)95 (HSE 1996a) from the Health and Safety Executive in October 1996.

Might be worth a read here: http://www.pangolin.com/SafetyTheses/Chapter_2.pdf

I've linked to the relevant page in the document, however, for anyone interested in laser safety it might be worth a read of the entire document.

If you want to know more about laser safety it might be worth taking a laser safety course... Have a look here: http://www.lvrlimited.com/laser-safety-training.php

Am I right in thinking that a "PM19 Certificate" does not exist however general laser safety competence certificates would exist?

[Jem]

Am I right in thinking that a "PM19 Certificate" does not exist however general laser safety competence certificates would exist?

As far as i'm aware there isn't a 'PM19 Certificate', if there is such a thing i've certainly never seen one.

Yes, it is possible to get a certificate in laser safety competence. LVR Safety will provide you with a certificate on completion of their comprehensive laser safety course (see previous link). I have such a certificate although i've never had to show it. Having said that, I used to provide a copy of it as part of a general Risk Assessment/Method Statement when I used to do Laser shows.

[DazzyD]

Given the charges levied by the fire brigade for false call outs, I don't blame them. They'll probably say no.

I went to a lovely venue in Dec that has actually modified their fire alarm system to allow Smoke to be used so it can be done. Now that's what I call service :D

I wish I could give more advice on the laser issue.

Julian

I once did a gig using smoke and the venue manager got round the issue of setting of the smoke alarms/sprinkler system by covering the sensors over with what resembled small blue shower caps. It did the trick perfectly!!

Oh, I forgot to mention. The gig was actually in a fire station in a function room right above the fire engines! And the guy who covered the sensors was one of the chief firemen at the station!!! ;)

[Excalibur]

I'd arrange a meeting with the client and venue and yourself to discuss it (there may be some compromises somewhere) - and you really want the message to come from the venue in person if they can't have what they want.

Seems to me we're trying to square the circle here. Martin, your advice about involving all three parties in a face to face dialogue may ultimately resolve the situation, but quite possibly not in the way any of the parties really wanted. Somehow, I don't think the B & G will be getting what they initially asked you to provide. :(

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Just out of interest (not that it matters because it sounds like a venue I'd steer clear of anyway), can you reveal what venue this is?
It might be worth putting it in the venue discussion / venues to avoid category?

To add - In my T&C's I have "We do not use smoke, haze or strobe lighting unless it has been agreed with the venue" (that's the shortened version).
I certainly think it's worth checking with venues before taking on a booking if the customer books you thinking that you can meet their expectations when the venue restricts you from doing so. If the customer asked for a 'nightclub experience' with what you've listed and I'd never been to the venue before, I'd be contacting the venue to see if it is viable and then letting the customer know. I've done it once in the past where the customer said they were told that there was not a sound limiter in a particular venue they'd booked. I had been to the venue once before and when I was there, there was a sound limiter so I called them and asked them before I took on the booking. The venue had failed to tell the customer which resulted in me calling the customer / enquirer and telling them that I wouldn't be able to provide a Disco for them at that particular venue due to the limiter.

When I was at the venue before, it seemed like it was set very low and I encountered a number of cut offs during the evening. It seemed like it would go off even if someone clapped or raised their voice so I said to myself "Never again".

[funkymook]

Seems to me we're trying to square the circle here. Martin, your advice about involving all three parties in a face to face dialogue may ultimately resolve the situation, but quite possibly not in the way any of the parties really wanted. Somehow, I don't think the B & G will be getting what they initially asked you to provide. :(

I fear you are right - not a bad idea to have something in the T&C's about certain services and venue restrictions to cover these sort of situations.

[bmdj]

I'm booked for a wedding in July and the couple have asked for a nightclub experience - they requested smoke, lasers loud system etc = not a problem!
Until I was sent the venue restrictions to browse over today...

No Smoke or vToour
No Strobes
Max noise 90db
No confetti cannons
No lasers (unless you have a PM19 Certificate and approval from the local laser licensing officer)
oh and worst of all... No Hypnotism (which is the backbone of how I get good client feedback).

I looked into the PM19 thing ... apparently it's a guideline which was replaced in 1996 and there is no certificate (perhaps I could award myself one!)

What is wrong with these people!

Also, is haze fluid invisible in the air?


Is it not a simple task of saying to the clients, " I'd love to offer you what you want but your venue won't allow it". Then offer something that fits the restrictions, up lighting, programmed effects rather than sound to light "spin n puke" settings, etc...
The clients obviously chose the venue for a reason be it style or price. I think to start organising a meeting between DJ, client and venue manager to hammer out a solution is going a bit far unless you have been asked to organise the whole event, and are getting paid for it! Sure an informal chat with the venue manager over the phone just to clarify things would be fine. You'll probably find the venue have stipulated these after a previous "DJ Knobhead" banged out non-stop Scooter with strobes and smoke till everyone's ears bled, whilst performing laser eye surgery on everyone with his green Taiwan laser!

[musicologydisco]

I assume you have notified the bookers about these restrictions. They may well want to try an alternative venue.

[DJDC]

I always state from the outset even in my quotes, use of smoke, lasers, strobe lighting, or pyro's will only be offered following a suitable risk assessment of the site. I've just took a booking and stated I'd offer some stage up lighting but if the room was suitable would consider the lasers / haze instead. Client was happy and did confirm that I could achieve the required height to ensure the laser scans above head height. If I'm not happy with the room, they stay in the case and out will come the stage uplighters.

[ukpartydj]

Just out of interest (not that it matters because it sounds like a venue I'd steer clear of anyway), can you reveal what venue this is?
It might be worth putting it in the venue discussion / venues to avoid category?

To add - In my T&C's I have "We do not use smoke, haze or strobe lighting unless it has been agreed with the venue" (that's the shortened version).
I certainly think it's worth checking with venues before taking on a booking if the customer books you thinking that you can meet their expectations when the venue restricts you from doing so. If the customer asked for a 'nightclub experience' with what you've listed and I'd never been to the venue before, I'd be contacting the venue to see if it is viable and then letting the customer know. I've done it once in the past where the customer said they were told that there was not a sound limiter in a particular venue they'd booked. I had been to the venue once before and when I was there, there was a sound limiter so I called them and asked them before I took on the booking. The venue had failed to tell the customer which resulted in me calling the customer / enquirer and telling them that I wouldn't be able to provide a Disco for them at that particular venue due to the limiter.

When I was at the venue before, it seemed like it was set very low and I encountered a number of cut offs during the evening. It seemed like it would go off even if someone clapped or raised their voice so I said to myself "Never again".

It's Oxford Town Hall, beautiful venue with a huge room where they have concerts however the wedding is in a much smaller room. If it does turn out to be a nightmare I'll pop it into the venue forum bit.
something to pop into the T&Cs I guess, these sort of things really irritate me - I will definitively give the venue a call after the client meeting - makes me wonder how other people get on as It appears a popular wedding venue.

[DazzyD]

It's Oxford Town Hall, beautiful venue with a huge room where they have concerts however the wedding is in a much smaller room. If it does turn out to be a nightmare I'll pop it into the venue forum bit.
something to pop into the T&Cs I guess, these sort of things really irritate me - I will definitively give the venue a call after the client meeting - makes me wonder how other people get on as It appears a popular wedding venue.

But, to be fair, most B&G clients don't ask for a club night for their wedding evening. The venue may not have had this requested before.