Specialist/Niche gigs. Thorny subject.

[Excalibur]

Well this has come up more than once lately. Ruffled a few feathers as well. At the risk of starting an all out war, let's have a bash at this.

Many of us appear to have been booked recently to DJ at functions requiring at least a working knowledge of music that isn't in the top 40 chart. For quite a few of us, this may lead us into uncharted waters. So, if we were to completely fail in our task, who is to blame? The DJ who didn't have an in depth knowledge of Patagonian Nose Flute Hardcore Rave Anthems, or the customer who picked the first/nearest/cheapest DJ they could find?

Is the function a specialist one, consisting of solely the designated music style, or simply one where slipping on a couple of Rammstein tracks for the bride's Mum will suffice? ( Don't laugh. Been there........................... )

If the function is indeed a totally specific event, why have the organisers not picked someone who they know can guarantee to have enough knowledge and tracks from the required genre(s) to provide a satisfactory performance? Does the fact that they haven't picked a specialist DJ signify that it's not a specialist gig?

How wide a knowledge and library are mainstream DJs expected to have? How versatile should we be? How much should we take on?

Is it acceptable to simply turn up with a couple of greatest hits/compilation CDs or is a week's concerted research involving hours listening to Spotify the bare minimum?

That should do for now, I know we've got a lot of specialists on here, and I know how fervent they can be about this subject.

Right, you've got two hours for this, please use annotated maps where possible, and only write on one side of the paper. The use of slide rules or calculators is permitted.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

If the customer is looking for a specialist to play whatever genre is their preferred one then I think it's a bit more than (as you say) turning up with a few greatest hits or just downloading a list of tunes etc and thinking you can get away with it.
I was booked recently for an (as they described it) Alternative/Indie wedding, one of quite a few I have done over the past 18 months.
I mention this one in particular because when the customer enquired in the first place, they listed some of the bands they wanted played at the wedding and it caught my attention instantly.
I called the customer straight away and no lie, we chatted for around an hour. We went over the music that they wanted and I kept coming up with others and the customer commented "You know you're stuff, that's what we want!". If you actually KNOW your specialised genre and click with the customer than it obviously helps.

I think as mainstream DJ's we should all know as much as we can about various genres. There's a lot I have learnt from this site and also customers request lists. I tend to listen to as much as I can in advance of a booking if there are certain things I am not familiar with. I don't just download and play on the day because I need to know what works with what.

It's funny you mention Rammstein. I have a wedding coming up where Rammstein is the Bride & Grooms favourite band. Again, they booked me on the strength of my knowledge but also because they said they 'clicked' with me. On this occasion they had contacted various 'specialised' DJ's (so they tell me anyway) and they said that they got a good vibe from me and again I "knew my stuff". I don't claim to know everything but I do ok. They also said I was a bit more expensive than the other DJ's that had quoted but they didn't want any old DJ who didn't know the music. If that was the case then they would get the cheapest possible and provide him or her with the music.

As I have been writing this I have just received an email from an Alternative wedding I did 3 weeks ago today. They've just returned from their honeymoon and the feedback is fantastic. I am in my element when I have an interest in what I am playing and I think that shows before and during the booking.

[BeerFunk]

It's a difficult one, because even within a specialist genre there are variations.

Take for example 'old school rave', as mentioned by Peter ;) Now, a lot of people think of QFX, Ultrasonic, TTF - that sort of thing. My personal taste would be more along the lines of Acen, Shamen, 2 Bad Mice etc.

I guess there's no substitute for discussing in depth with the client.

I also think it's perfectly feasible for a 'general' mobile DJ to pick up a specialist gig if, and only if they were prepared to put in considerable research beforehand. As mentioned, picking up a greatest hits type compilation isn't going to cut it - although it might go some way towards it.

[Creature]

Specialist/Niche gigs. Thorny subject

Is it or are many DJs so comfortable in there normal musical genere enviroment that they thing they can take on specialist events were they would not normally venture.

Having said that Last night A good friend only wanted me to dj there party, not because I Knew the music that they wanted to play, but because they like the way I dj and knew that they could book me and not worry if the dj is gonna do his/her best - I will happily admit after covering the booking last night - never again tho!


requiring at least a working knowledge of music that isn't in the top 40 chart

I dont normally cover these gigs as its not my normal enviroment, Having said that were I have been asked to play chart music and I have it ( mainly curtasy of cdpool) I do enjoy it, but I wouldnt take on a bookingg were I would be playing it all night long.


this may lead us into uncharted waters

Last night did House Trance Rave etc - Never ventured down these types of music and will happily never accept bookings again were I will be asked too. (lesson learnt!)


So, if we were to completely fail in our task, who is to blame? The DJ who didn't have an in depth knowledge of Patagonian Nose Flute Hardcore Rave Anthems, or the customer who picked the first/nearest/cheapest DJ they could find?

Difficult to answer this one - But Maybe all of the above, but I will add the customer refusing to understand the difference between generes, espeally when your trying to explain that its not your normal area of music, but they either just dont wanna know or understand

Another point in todays climate were bookings are scarcer than normal, Maybe we are taking on bookings that in the past we would have steered clear off.

But then again, if you dont try different generes of music, you never know if you can be successfull at it!


Is the function a specialist one, consisting of solely the designated music style, or simply one where slipping on a couple of Rammstein tracks for the bride's Mum will suffice? ( Don't laugh. Been there........................... )

same here ! or the grand parents coming up and asking you to play mettalica for them, too be fair tho its fun watching everyone on the dance floor enjoying there selves. But as mainly a Rock DJ it does also work the other way as well


If the function is indeed a totally specific event, why have the organisers not picked someone who they know can guarantee to have enough knowledge and tracks from the required genre(s) to provide a satisfactory performance? Does the fact that they haven't picked a specialist DJ signify that it's not a specialist gig?

Several answers here - Because they like the work you do and trust you to make sure you will give it 100% , price these days around here, is now the main factor in getting the booking, Willingness on the DJ to have a go, and availability.

If we look at it very carefully and put the blinkers away - most bookings are Specialist! but many of us have forgotten that.


How wide a knowledge and library are mainstream DJs expected to have? How versatile should we be? How much should we take on?


A difficult one to answer, but I will try..... very wide knowledge is expected today and are often expected to have new songs not yet released as they heard it on the radio!. As to Versatility, if we didnt try n push the boundries occasionally, we as DJ's couldnt do our jobs very well as we would be relying on the same old material and not trying new material. Ad to How much should we take on, thats a question only each of us can answer at the time ( if we are honest withour selves)!


Is it acceptable to simply turn up with a couple of greatest hits/compilation CDs or is a week's concerted research involving hours listening to Spotify the bare minimum?

No! - but then again do we have the time to sit and research 3-4 hours researching material we dont normally play/listen to.
But then again, if we didnt at least try the above once, we would never know if we could or couldnt cover that type of booking.


I know we've got a lot of specialists on here, and I know how fervent they can be about this subject.

Yes we are, but I believe many of us just dont realise it, of if a post about this issue was to be posted some would jump on the advise given and think it over the top. We all love to DJ and we all love the music/generes we play with a passion thats close to our hearts, thats why many on here are successful DJ's in there specialist generes.

Me ok I am mainly a Rock DJ (as many know) definately NOT Mainstreem in any way! but I do also do n cover 40s,50s,60,70s,80s and even the odd 90s nights covering many generes. Modern music I dont really know that well as I dont play/listen to it much, but thats not to say I dont enjoy some of it - I just wouldnt accept a booking if I had to play chart music, house,rave, Trace etc I would not take the booking on and pass it to a dj who covers them normally.

[Shaun]

So, if we were to completely fail in our task, who is to blame? The DJ who didn't have an in depth knowledge of Patagonian Nose Flute Hardcore Rave Anthems, or the customer who picked the first/nearest/cheapest DJ they could find?



I blame the DJ. As professionals we should be savvy enough to know which gigs to take on and which gigs to turn away. Sadly, there are a lot of gig pigs that will take on every kind of event and try to 'wing it', despite not having the skill-set needed for such specialist nights.

[Excalibur]

I blame the DJ. As professionals we should be savvy enough to know which gigs to take on and which gigs to turn away.

Harsh, and quite possibly unfair. How often have you expressed availability for a gig, customer gives you no indication that it's anything out of the ordinary, you take it on, and then the request list shows it's way left of centre.
Do you immediately cut them loose, explaining that you're not up to the task? What if that means they then end up booking one of the aforementioned Unselective Porcines, who simply takes the job without putting any effort into offering the service the customer wants? Even though you knew you weren't an expert in the field, your professionalism means you'd have done research, and given a creditable performance, so you'd be the best possible option if no specialist was available.

We're all assuming that there's a Specialist in the Genre required for the gig in every area, at the right price, and free on that date. Yeah, right. :fp:
And while I've got a good head of steam up, isn't it dangerous, lazy and bad practice to simply turn up and play the same old same old every time?

[funkymook]

Pretty much what Gary says - it's' got a lot to do with connecting with these clients over a mutual interest in the same music. If you've both grown up liking the same bands, been to the same gigs, been to the same festivals etc then you instinctively know what floats their boat. It's not just about 'I'd better play some indie for them now' it's knowing what will appeal to an indie crowd regardless of what genre it is, and this is where you can successfully cross over and keep all the guests happy, you've just got to 'know' to do this.

That's not to say any decent DJ can't play the right songs if they do a bit of research and ask for guidance of course, but a decent Dj playing their specialist area is always going to have the edge over someone with a playlist guide randomly adding songs from it to their usual set. For example, you get a massive Smiths/Morrissey fan as a client (I had one a few years back) - to me it's obvious to play some New York Dolls because the client would get the connection.

Reason why it can get thorny is that if you see DJ's who haven't got a clue advising other DJ's who haven't got a clue on something you know a lot about and do week in week out you really fear that the client is not going to get the party they deserve. Add a few 'the clients playlist are all floorkillers, I'll ignore it and play what I know works at my other gigs' type comments and they've already prejudged it and written it off. That's not what I call customer service.

One of the most telling comments from a client was - 'we asked the DJ for some Smiths, Pulp and Depeche Mode, he said he didn't have any - but as it was a friends wedding we all danced despite what he was playing, not because of it'. I had pretty much the same crowd at their wedding, floor was heaving to the Pixies, Cure, Smiths etc plus Swing, Blues, 1920's, Ska etc - they asked me for indie and they would've been happy with the usual indie must plays, but they got a lot more variety because I knew they'd also like the music I liked.

[Creature]

I blame the DJ. As professionals we should be savvy enough to know which gigs to take on and which gigs to turn away. Sadly, there are a lot of gig pigs that will take on every time of event and try to 'wing it', despite not having the skill-set needed for such specialist nights.

Shaun Does this mean your first question is what genere of music are you wanting to be played at your booking should be the first question you ask the customer?

What about when the customer sends you a guide/request list and you see no issues, but you turn up and the crowd wants you to play something totally diiferent to what you were led to believe! This has happened to me several times and is why I dont bother with request/guide sheets as they can be a total waiste of time and effort.

[Daryll]

I have searched hi and low for Patagonian Nose Flute Hardcore Rave Anthems , this is the best I can do



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InfbrAUemK0

On a more serious note , I enjoy being tested on music that is out of the norm , but I would not do a gig where I was completely out of my depth.
I have a reasonable number of reggae tracks, but these are the main stream ones , if someone asked to do do a night of Trojan reggae .whoa , way out of my zone.
As was said earlier , blagging your way just to do a gig is IMO not doing the industry , or the DJ any favors, plus there are DJ`s that specialize in "out side the box" music.
I love Goa trance , but I would not have a clue what works with the hard core fans.

Daryll

[funkymook]

Shaun Does this mean your first question is what genere of music are you wanting to be played at your booking should be the first question you ask the customer?

What about when the customer sends you a guide/request list and you see no issues, but you turn up and the crowd wants you to play something totally diiferent to what you were led to believe! This has happened to me several times and is why I dont bother with request/guide sheets as they can be a total waiste of time and effort.

The clients playlist is just a starting point for me. I chat to them about the music, it's something that's important to them and I enjoy talking about it!
The 'what if' in regards to the guests tastes and requests is always covered - you can't take it for granted for even the most specialist night that the client has got it right. Again it's knowing your music and the culture/lifestyle behind it that allows you to suggest acceptable compromises to them. And the 'worst case scenario' is also discussed - no dancers, guests complaining....what do we do? (note the 'we' - you're working with the client, not against them).

Sometimes you have to tread carefully and introduce the idea of compromise very subtly to avoid the point blank 'no, only play what I want' - but I've found it's always been down to a trust issue and as soon as you've gained their trust they'll listen.

[funkymook]

if someone asked to do do a night of Trojan reggae .whoa , way out of my zone.

Daryll

That's easy - ask what style of Reggae, Roots, Dub, Ska, Lovers etc. Buy some of the many excellent Trojan compilations that cover these styles (it says it on the covers) - google the tops songs to make sure you have them, put the CD's on at home and pick out the ones you really like an' ting.

[Shaun]

Harsh, and quite possibly unfair. How often have you expressed availability for a gig, customer gives you no indication that it's anything out of the ordinary, you take it on, and then the request list shows it's way left of centre.
.

The thread title states Specialist or Niche DJ, so I presumed the details would have been provided from the offset. Surely dialogue with regards to musical requirements comes prior to confirming the booking? If it's a specialist area I feel I can't do justice to then I pass on the gig - I have done in the past. If they don't state it in the beginning and move the goalposts later on, then they'll be informed it may not be as specialist a night as they intended. In that circumstance then the client has to accept responsibility.


Shaun Does this mean your first question is what genere of music are you wanting to be played at your booking should be the first question you ask the customer?
.

Once the customer has indicated their interest in booking I then press for more details regarding any specific music they want included.





What about when the customer sends you a guide/request list and you see no issues, but you turn up and the crowd wants you to play something totally diiferent to what you were led to believe! This has happened to me several times and is why I dont bother with request/guide sheets as they can be a total waiste of time and effort.

That's an entirely different scenario from the thread title that states 'Specialist/Niche gigs'. Most DJs worth their salt can turn their hand to providing a short set of most genres to cover guest requests on the night. however, providing a full evening of a specialist genre to die-hard fans of the genre is a completely different kettle of fish. Which is what I presumed this thread was about.

[Excalibur]

The thread title states Specialist or Niche DJ, .


That's an entirely different scenario from the thread title that states 'Specialist/Niche gigs'.
.
Make your mind up, there's a good lad. :D


Most DJs worth their salt can turn their hand to providing a short set of most genres to cover guest requests on the night. however, providing a full evening of a specialist genre to die-hard fans of the genre is a completely different kettle of fish. Which is what I presumed this thread was about.

The title would lead one to believe that, so I apologise for the confusion. My mistake.
If that were the case, then I'd immediately accept that a specialist is the only option for a successful gig. But if that specialist can't be found, or the gig isn't exclusively populated by people with u8niform musical tastes............................................ .....

[funkymook]

Peter - the answer to why they haven't chosen a specialist DJ is because they can't find one, there aren't that many specialist mobiles around. So they try and make sure that the DJ they have hired is prepared by giving them playlists etc.

[Corabar Steve]

If the function is indeed a totally specific event, why have the organisers not picked someone who they know can guarantee to have enough knowledge and tracks from the required genre(s) to provide a satisfactory performance? Does the fact that they haven't picked a specialist DJ signify that it's not a specialist gig?


Not at all. Most known specialist DJs are booked pretty much solid throughout the year & as there are only a finite number of these for each genre, sometimes the client has no option but to book a Jack of all trades.

Most (if not all) of the specialist DJs on here will also turn their hand to mainstream gigs as they are not "name" DJs of their chosen genres (it's very hard to get your name out there for specific genre work, as you need to get the gigs under your belt first). However we do all have an existing client base & friends & relatives of clients do have functions too, which is how we get our niche gigs.

There is also a lot to be said for networking. For example if Martin can't cover a gig that I can handle, he passes it our way (& vice versa).