Increasing Mic' Gain... Help

[Jem]

Hi all

I'm using a Traktor S4 mixer along with Traktor Pro software on a MacBook Pro. If I have my Shure SM58 plugged into the mic input on the S4 controller I struggle to get sufficient gain on the microphone. I've got all the available gain controls (for the microphone) turned up to maximum and still it falls short on volume (when compared to music output).

I wondered if a microphone pre-amp may fix the problem. Apparently this would boost the microphone signal before it's fed into the S4. I've never had cause to use one before and don't really know much about what I should be looking for. Can anyone offer any advice on (a) whether this will potentially fix the issue? or (b) is this likely to cause any damage to the system??

Many thanks

Jem

[super-hero]

Check that your music gains are not too loud and drowning out your mic..

[Jem]

Check that your music gains are not too loud and drowning out your mic..

Thanks, I've checked that and the music gains are just fine. They're well within boundaries and there's no clipping occurring.

I could possibly correct this entire problem by lowering the music volume and keeping the gains on the mic' at maximum. The problem with that is that I'm sacrificing too much music volume and essentially wasting what the system is capable of, I really don't want to go there. If I could get more mic volume I'd be a happy bunny :)

Maybe a different mic' with higher gain would work, but I figure the SM58 is industry standard and I can't imagine that it's incompatible with this system.

Cheers

Jem

[Excalibur]

Thanks, I've checked that and the music gains are just fine. They're well within boundaries and there's no clipping occurring.

I could possibly correct this entire problem by lowering the music volume and keeping the gains on the mic' at maximum.
Possibly sort of not quite. I'm not familiar with the S4, but I believe it's vaguely equivalent to my VMS. On that, I have mic gains, channel gains, and a master gain. Thus, if I were struggling with mic gains, I'd take the master up as much as is reasonable, lower the channels, and leave the mic gains at an acceptable level. I see no reason why the S4 shouldn't behave similarly.

I have no such problem with my VMS, all gains seem to live happily near the centre on most occasions ( except when trying to boost the laughably weak signal I was presented with from a live act ).

In my ( limited ) experience with the Denon MC6000, if you lift the master too high, the mic channels are virtually unusable. Exactly the opposite problem to what you're having.

There may be one other possible solution. I've always found that if you have a radio mic with an adjustable output, like my old SM58, you may be able to get a little more out of it than a cabled mic. Worth trying to borrow one and have a play, I'd say.

[katman]

Whilst not personally familiar with the Tractor S4 I just took a look at the manual on the website.

Two things I spotted that may have a bearing on the low mic levels.

1. How is it powered ? USB or external power supply ? It mentions that higher output levels are available when using an external power supply.

2. What type of Mic lead do you have ? XLR to TRS (Balanced Jack) or XLR to TS (Mono Jack) ? If you have a balanced mic lead its possible the full signal isn't being fed into the mixer as it specifies that it has Mono Jack input.

Keith

[DiscoMagic]

Like other's I am not that knowledgeable on the S4, but do believe (IMO) that the MIC inputs and reproduction are not that great, which is one of the reasons that I went the MC6000. I also know a peer who has got the S4 but uses an external mixer just for the mic for the same reason.

But.... saying all that, what your describing doesn't sound right... Have you tried updating to the latest firmware, as well as trying out an different mic or lead???

[Jem]

Hi again

Peter, thanks for your suggestions. I've played about with all the gains and balances, but to no avail. I can get it to a reasonable level, but that's not really good enough as I want some headroom for the mic'.


Whilst not personally familiar with the Tractor S4 I just took a look at the manual on the website.

Two things I spotted that may have a bearing on the low mic levels.

1. How is it powered ? USB or external power supply ? It mentions that higher output levels are available when using an external power supply.

Thanks for taking the time to look at the manuals, but i've already been there and done that. I'm powering the S4 from the mains.



2. What type of Mic lead do you have ? XLR to TRS (Balanced Jack) or XLR to TS (Mono Jack) ? If you have a balanced mic lead its possible the full signal isn't being fed into the mixer as it specifies that it has Mono Jack input.

Keith

Great suggestion, and Oop's... i'd completely missed it in the manual. However, on checking i'm using XLR to mono Jack, so no luck there (I guess that would have been too simple).

I'll try to get hold of another decent mic to try. If that doesn't improve things i'm going to try a pre-amp, this one's available for <£30, so worth a shot... http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/fame-mic-10-microphone-preamp--200835

Thanks again guys, I really appreciate the help and suggestions :)

Jem

[Jem]

Thanks Ralph(?). Maybe it's just me, but i'm not really happy with the situation as it is. I've actually gone ahead and ordered the preamp I linked to on the previous thread. We'll see what happens once that's connected :)

Cheers

Jem

[Excalibur]

Whilst not personally familiar with the Tractor S4 I just took a look at the manual on the website.

Ah yes, the time honoured adage: " When all else fails, read the instructions " :D


Like other's I am not that knowledgeable on the S4, but do believe (IMO) that the MIC inputs and reproduction are not that great, which is one of the reasons that I went the MC6000. I also know a peer who has got the S4 but uses an external mixer just for the mic for the same reason.

A machine cursed roundly by many folk I know for having awful mic channels.

One colleague has resorted to using a FOH mixer for mics, instead of the 6000, and reports a staggering increase in sound and usability. A second cured his by fitting attenuators in the circuit to tame tthem, and a third is presently experimenting with a combination of the two.


We'll see what happens once that's connected :)

Cheers

Jem
I see no logical eason why that shouldn't help. Worth a punt at that price. Keep us posted as to developments. Good luck.

[Jem]

Well, the preamp arrived yesterday morning, great service as usual from DV247 :)

I unpacked the unit, it's very robust and seems well built. In the box was the actual unit and a dedicated power brick, I was a little disappointed to find the 'brick' only had a two pin plug on it. After a quick search for a two pin shaver adapter I plugged everything in and switched the unit on, it worked perfectly, boosting the microphone to a very acceptable level. In fact, there was bucketfuls of gain to spare. The sound was still crisp and bright. So far so good...

Now for the bad part, it worked perfectly for about 30 minutes. I had noticed that initially the box seemed to get quite warm, but it wasn't excessive. Then, all of a sudden, it stopped working and that characteristic burnt electronics smell started seeping out of the box... Oh dear :(

I've not pulled it apart to see what the problem is as I didn't want to do anything that could potentially void the warranty. Suffice to say it'll be on its way back to DV247 on Monday. There' s nothing I could have possibly got wrong as there's only certain places to put certain things, so I guess it's just a dodgy unit.

This wasn't an expensive unit, it was under £30, but I still expected it to work for more than 30 minutes. Thankfully this wasn't being used in a live environment.

More info later when I get a replacement...

[Jem]

O.K., so, an update...

DV247 really are a pleasure to do business with. They arranged to send me a new unit by UPS Express and at the same time as delivering the new unit they collected the old non-working unit. This meant minimum of fuss for me :)

I've had the unit a couple of days now and it's performing very well indeed. The amount of extra gain this unit provides is quite staggering, and there's no discernible extra noise or loss of sound quality. I'm using it with a wired Shure SM58 microphone (the one with the switch).

Here's a couple of pictures:

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu327/Pocketjem/F7FC1C8B-5F5A-4ECA-81EE-03CD673CE10D-14158-00000D6D4AABFE28_zpscd636236.jpg (http://s660.photobucket.com/user/Pocketjem/media/F7FC1C8B-5F5A-4ECA-81EE-03CD673CE10D-14158-00000D6D4AABFE28_zpscd636236.jpg.html)

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu327/Pocketjem/24E89BFA-3DF6-4419-B0D4-D6D83DDB1BDA-14158-00000D6D3598B845_zps4a6fa8b1.jpg (http://s660.photobucket.com/user/Pocketjem/media/24E89BFA-3DF6-4419-B0D4-D6D83DDB1BDA-14158-00000D6D3598B845_zps4a6fa8b1.jpg.html)

The major 'fail' on this is the European two pin plug transformer that's supplied. When I mentioned this to DV247 they said that I should have received an adapter with the unit and they would send me one with the replacement. Needless to say this adapter never arrived :(.

In conclusion I would be happy to buy another one of these for my radio mic. I'm not sure yet of the longevity of these units and i'm hopeful that the first one was faulty from the start, i'm keeping fingers crossed that this works a little longer ;)

Cheers

Jem

[super-hero]

Sometimes you have to admit that the mic channel is not as good as it could be. I had the opposite issue with a mc-6000, which has a super hot mic channel. £60 later and a Shure mic attenuater fitted, it all works a treat.

So you have probably done the best thing and added the pre-amp.

It amazes me that manufacturers don't see, to test their equipment with what is the professional industry standard mic, the SM58.

Ah well, glad you found a solution.