Legal help re bounced cheque ..... Please!!!

[DiscoMagic]

Back in December I did a 2.5 hour Childeren Disco for an 11 year old for £150 and after presenting the clients cheque to my bank they have advised that it was stopped due to "reported cheque theft".

Now I don't normally accept cheques but this was for a friend of a friend, and I thought that it would be OK. Moreover the client had already cancelled and re-arranged once because the child had broken his arm on the day of the party, and although I was within my rights to demand full payment I felt this was a bit harsh from a customer service point of view and so I agreed to postpone to a mutually agreed date.

So as you can see I looked after the customer as one should.

On receiving the stopped cheque I emailed the client, advising that the cheque had stopped and that the payment was still outstanding and needed to be paid. I received no answer!

I have today contacted her, and before even explaining the reason for my call, the client leapt into saying that she emailed me twice and text messaged me the after the party, saying that she had a number of complaints from other parents saying that I was loud, aggressive, shouted at them and even manhandled a girl off the floor where she was sitting down whose father was a senior police officer and wasn't very happy. About two minutes into the call she said she had another call coming through and she would call me back in two minutes. Three hours later i'm still waiting!

To me this is total nonsense.
Firstly the children were fairly boisterous, to say the least and at one point the birthday boy was punched in the balls (to give you an example) for fun.
Secondly, Although I was fairly firm, I only shouted once, and that was to bring things to order for a game that the client and her son were keen to play.
Thirdly. I never manhandled or picked a child up from the floor. The closest scenario is that at one point the children has removed a girls shoe from her and were throwing it between themselves with the girl running around trying to get it. From my point of view, a H&S issue as the floor was wooden and can be slippery in socks.
Forthly. The mum spent most of her time in the kitchen and didn't bother getting sorting things out.
and finally. The mum never said anything to me on the night, depsite me making a point of checking that everything was OK during the Party and at the end. Additionally The birthday boy also thanked me for the night and some of his friends said that they had a good time.


To me I think it is a blatant attempt to try and get out of playing, and in short I want to know the best of getting my money back.

What should I do???

[DJ Jules]

Letter by recorded delivery stating:

1. The contract was fulfilled
2. Cheque had bounced (and supply the reason that the bank gave)
3. Dates/times of attempts to contact
4. Then state that no concerns or complaints had been raised prior to contact and, similarly, you had no complaints from any other party on the day.
5. Payment is due, and intentional cancellation of a cheque after issue amounts to fraud
6. If no response within 14 days, small claims proceedings will be started and if judgement is found against her then it will affect her credit rating.
7. If she has a genuine issue with the quality of your service, then she first needs to settle the debt, and can then follow your grievance procedure (supplying evidence of her complaint) which may result in a full or partial refund.*

* No.7 is optional :D

No response within 14 days, straight to small claims.

I'm stereotyping here, but if I know this type of customer, you're unlikely to ever see your money unless you get judgement against them and then take the small claims process right through to recovery direct from earnings. Her credit rating is probably already shot so another CCJ isn't likely to make much of a difference and she's unlikely to ever volunteer the money, even if you get judgement.

In fact, she's unlikely to even turn up to defend if you do take her to small claims.

Julian

[Sapphire Disco]

What she has done is deception the courts will look very dimly at that, take her through the small claims court and add on as much in costs as you can without going over the top with them.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

It works.

Before you do that, Google for debt collection letter as there are plenty of companies out there who do them for free.

[DiscoMagic]

Thanks guys, great advice... I'll let you know the outcome :)

:beer1::beer1::beer1:

[mattydj50]

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

It works.



This is actually a simple way to use the Small Claims court. I've done it twice and won both times, though the second time, the company I was pursuing went out of business before the bailiffs went in, so I never actually got my £325 back.

But yes, a clearly worded letter with a bit of legal jargon threatening legal action or courts usually does the trick because it puts the fear of God in the "defendant" as they often think you're bluffing.

[DazzyD]

Good advice. And a good example of why you should have a clear complaint resolution procedure in place. I wouldn't even look at a complaint whilst the client was witholding money, though.

[DiscoMagic]

Letter send by recorded mail and email today, if you're interested!





Dear xxxx

RE: Unpaid invoice DM/NAGNT/85/08 - Notice of intended court proceedings
Further to my recent email dated 17th Jan 2014, and our subsequent telephone conversation of 21st Jan 2014 at 11.44am, I write regarding the outstanding amount of £150 in reference to the above named invoice and the service of disco entertainment for your son’s birthday on 29th November 2013.

I am disappointed to learn from our telephone conversation that you have deliberately withheld payment for the disco entertainment that I provided for your son, xxx and his friends to celebrate his 11th Birthday. Moreover, I am certain that William and his friends had a great time, which was cemented by the fact that xxx and some of his friends thanked me for the evening and stated that they enjoyed themselves. In addition, I might point out that at least once during the party and again at the end I checked with you to make sure you were happy with everything (something I do with every function I attend), to which you responded that everything was fine.

Although I wanted to avoid taking the strong approach, I do feel that I have to point out the following factual elements of this situation.

You entered a contract with Disco Magic to provide the service of entertainment for your son’s birthday party in exchange for the fee of £150.
The contract was fulfilled by myself on 29th Nov 2013.
You paid by cheque on the night of the event, which was subsequently stopped for the reason of stolen cheque (as advised by your bank - Santander).
I have attempted to contact you twice as detailed in the opening paragraph of this letter. I received no response to my first email, and the telephone call was cut very short with a promise that you would ring back in two minutes. I never received such a phone call.
I have received no complaints from yourself or any third party in reference to the service provided, other than your allegation made yesterday, to which I highly disagree


In my opinion, you have deliberately made payment by cheque which you had either already stopped or intended to stop. Again in my opinion this is tantamount to fraud and deception.

I formally request payment the outstanding amount of £150 to be paid into my bank account within 7 days. If I don’t receive the funds within the required timeframe, I shall be forced to issue court proceedings against you. This could lead to a CCJ filed against you as well as you having to pay more than the original amount.

Bank Account: xxxxxxxx
Sort Code: xx-xx-xx

I hope that we can bring this matter to a close, and I look forward to hearing from you in due course.
Yours sincerely
Ralph Heijmer Disco Magic

[Sapphire Disco]

Spot on Ralph I would imagine you will be receiving payment very soon hopefully :)

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Good luck with this.

[DazzyD]

Hi Ralph.

I've looked at your letter and, in my opinion, this isn't the course of action I'd have taken. I wouldn't have included the bit "in my opinion this is tantamount to fraud and deception.". Despite what you might think, at this point in time, has happened, you are actually accusing the client of a criminal offence here. Only a judge/jury can decide on this and, as this hasn't reached that far, you are leaving yourself wide open to a counter accusation of libel. You really need to resolve this swiftly with the right amount of pressure and not get in to a war of words that can quickly escalate. If you think that this client deliberately set out to defraud you - "obtaining services by means of deception" - then your first stop has to be report it to the police. A client not paying you under your T&Cs is a civil matter but a client intentionally setting out to defraud you out of money, goods or services is a criminal offence and needs to be put in to the hands of the police.

I know you're angry about this situation (after all, who wouldn't be?) but you have to approach it in a professional and level-headed manner. I wouldn't have even gone in to replying to the client's alleged concerns about the event at this point. I would have issused a simple straight-forward "Account Overdue - 14 days" letter which is standard procedure in the debt collection process. This letter simply tells the claimant that their account is now overdue and that they have 14 days to settle it. It also outlines the consequences of non-payment after 14 days - ie legal action for debt recovery will follow and could affect the person's credit rating, etc., etc., blah blah blah! The client hasn't paid for the service so, really, doesn't have a valid complaint at this point. Her complaint will only become valid once your services are paid for. This is why I wouldn't even refer to her complaints at this point in time. The complaints process and the debt recovery process are separate and should be kept that way.

It looks like what's been done is done now so I only hope you've struck a nerve with the client and she pays up. I think in 9 cases out of 10 the client will read your letter and pay. However, that always leaves the one who'll dig their heels in and make things harder for you. And with you accusing her of fraud then this has the potential to get messy.

[yourdj]

Spot on Ralph I would imagine you will be receiving payment very soon hopefully :)

I don't agree. Its well laid out and the detail is there, but its a bit personal. I would have kept it simple and left the courts to decide.
You have to be very careful and keep things on a no accusation level. Its alson not written very professionally and may not be taken seriously (i.e. "strong approach").

I have always treated the client as if they have done nothing wrong and then step it up when they then ignore me further when i have the right too. You Need to give the a scare to pay, set down the rules and terms, but not make them angry or personal in any way. Just look at any letter from unpaid bills from utility companies for examples. I have a few in my filing cabinet from years back when i was poor :lol:

Having said all that that will definitely do the job. Just remember to act on your threats! I think the set thing is a few more letters and then debt recovery, but don't quote me on that. :) Don't deal with any of this on the phone if they continue to be a pain, let the courts decide. Email is not too bad as you can use it as evidence, with the original booking emails etc. It might be worth trying to find out who complained as you could use them as witnesses and if there were caretakers or other staff at the venue they may be able to help too.

[DJ Jules]

I've looked at your letter and, in my opinion, this isn't the course of action I'd have taken. I wouldn't have included the bit "in my opinion this is tantamount to fraud and deception.".

That'd be my bad advice. :( I did think when I read your phrasing that it's better to keep opinions out of debt recovery letters and stick to known facts (otherwise it does open the door to people trying to detract by arguing about points which are secondary to the purpose of the letter - which is paying up).


If you think that this client deliberately set out to defraud you - "obtaining services by means of deception" - then your first stop has to be report it to the police.

From experience, the police will probably still consider this a civil matter, despite it technically being fraud. They usually leave this level of fraud to the banks to sort out....

Incidentally, I've had this whole situation happen to me once before (almost exactly the same circumstances, gig done, no complaints on the night, but no payment - called the client the week after to get payment and was given a list of excuses around poor service). Unfortunately in my case I subbed out the gig to a friend so I wasn't there on the night and couldn't vouch for what happened. I suspected that the client was trying it on as I heard that a number of other suppliers had found themselves in a similar position at the end of the night, but I just had to chalk it up to experience and move on as I couldn't say for sure if we had provided the service or not.

Julian

[DiscoMagic]

It is a tough one here, but I have tried to keep my feeling aside and maintain professional, whilst still attempting in instil fear whilst getting across the fact fact that I am serious in my threats. I hope that any misdemeanours in my letter will be over looked if it does go to court as I am sure that any Judge would understand that I am no legal professional! Incidentally I did run this pass a good friend of mine who work in the legal world.

Time will tell :)

[Sapphire Disco]

I don't agree. Its well laid out and the detail is there, but its a bit personal. I would have kept it simple and left the courts to decide.
You have to be very careful and keep things on a no accusation level. Its alson not written very professionally and may not be taken seriously (i.e. "strong approach").



I don't agree I think Ralphs letter is spot on it should have the desired effect and will not be detrimental to the case should it go to court because it's true, I think you are forgetting the fact that she has issued a cheque and then claimed it was stolen Ralph then banked what was claimed to be a stolen cheque !!!
Nobody is right all the time not even me ;)

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

So if I'm reading this correctly:

She has claimed the cheque was stolen in order to have it cancelled?

If that's the case (as according to her bank...) then it is premeditated fraud so I don't think him bringing that issue up in the letter is overly out of order.

If it was a normal bounced cheque then throwing out the fraud claim is opening yourself up but when they actually have commited fraud...

Apart from that I'd be on to their bank letting them know what one of their customers is doing.

Either way she sounds like a total scum bag so hammer her and teach her a lesson.

[yourdj]

Either way she sounds like a total scum bag so hammer her and teach her a lesson.

I would just be professional and keep things neutral, professionally written, to the point and free from any accusation.

Get on with business and forget about it, but put a reminder in your calendar for the next 2 letters and impending debt collection dates.
Life is too short to be getting stressed and angry over one booking.

Thats my personal opinion. :)


-


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAJGy7tG2fc

[DazzyD]

I don't agree I think Ralphs letter is spot on it should have the desired effect and will not be detrimental to the case should it go to court because it's true, I think you are forgetting the fact that she has issued a cheque and then claimed it was stolen Ralph then banked what was claimed to be a stolen cheque !!!
Nobody is right all the time not even me ;)

In the eyes of the Law, it's up to a judge and jury to decide if someone is guilty of any wrong-doing. Ralph can only "allege" wrong-doing. If he does so in writing, which he has done, and the judge and jury disagree then it's potentially libel. This whole case is a matter of debt collection. Ralph should really stick to the facts - ie the customer's account is overdue and she owes the money for services rendered. Personal opinion doesn't come in to it.


So if I'm reading this correctly:

She has claimed the cheque was stolen in order to have it cancelled?

If that's the case (as according to her bank...) then it is premeditated fraud so I don't think him bringing that issue up in the letter is overly out of order.

If it was a normal bounced cheque then throwing out the fraud claim is opening yourself up but when they actually have commited fraud...

Apart from that I'd be on to their bank letting them know what one of their customers is doing.

Either way she sounds like a total scum bag so hammer her and teach her a lesson.

Not only is this a highly unprofessional attitude to take, imo, again, it's up to the law to decide the outcome. Legal judgements are largely based on how the judge and jury feel at that particular time. Nothing is ever clear-cut. Why risk a costly legal battle when all you want to do is get paid for a job you've done? Simple, clear and concise debt collection procedures are all that is needed. And with the ease of the money-claim online service, why risk anything else? This is business. Emotion should be kept out of it. Once you start letting emotion control the way you run your business then it's a downward spiral.

And let's not forget, this is a thread in the "Law" section of the forum. I'm pretty sure vigilante approaches to such matters would be frowned upon in law! ;)

[Andy Collins]

You have a very strong case here to be honest. For a start, the fact that she's reported the cheque stolen could have landed you in a cell. Secondly It's not against the law to stop a cheque. However, it is a criminal offence to hand over a cheque with the intention of stopping it later.

[DazzyD]

You have a very strong case here to be honest. For a start, the fact that she's reported the cheque stolen could have landed you in a cell. Secondly It's not against the law to stop a cheque. However, it is a criminal offence to hand over a cheque with the intention of stopping it later.

Which adds further weight to the fact that it should be reported to the police.

Some banks will charge the customer for cancelling a cheque. However, reporting it lost or stolen doesn't carry a charge so perhaps this explains her thinking?

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I think wires are getting crossed.

is she a scumbag? If she's intentionally and fraudulently said a cheque has been stolen in order to have it bounce then yes. I'm sure this would be a legal matter too. Has she booked someone knowing that she was going to withhold payment? Yes ergo she is a scumbag.

Does she deserve to be taught a lesson for this? In my opinion yes, if that means getting dragged through small claims and having to pay up plus expenses then so be it.

That's the extent of what I mean by hammering her. Any correspondance should rightly so be kept formal and legally minded or else it has the potential to end badly. I've had to do something similar before though not for the business and the best way to deal with it is keep it to the point and not let any emotion or desire to take pot shots at them come into things.


I'm wondering if the wording of "in my opinion" has any bearing on whether it would be considered libel (not that I think this person will have the IQ points to rub together and think of this as a potential get out) as according to her bank, the cheque she handed out was reported stolen so if this is the case, there's no other possible reason for it other than she intentionally and fruadulently did this to halt the payment.

Either way, if there's anything we can learn from this one: GET PAID WELL IN ADVANCE OF THE EVENT!!!

[DazzyD]

I think wires are getting crossed.

is she a scumbag? If she's intentionally and fraudulently said a cheque has been stolen in order to have it bounce then yes. I'm sure this would be a legal matter too. Has she booked someone knowing that she was going to withhold payment? Yes ergo she is a scumbag.

Does she deserve to be taught a lesson for this? In my opinion yes, if that means getting dragged through small claims and having to pay up plus expenses then so be it.

That's the extent of what I mean by hammering her. Any correspondance should rightly so be kept formal and legally minded or else it has the potential to end badly. I've had to do something similar before though not for the business and the best way to deal with it is keep it to the point and not let any emotion or desire to take pot shots at them come into things.


I'm wondering if the wording of "in my opinion" has any bearing on whether it would be considered libel (not that I think this person will have the IQ points to rub together and think of this as a potential get out) as according to her bank, the cheque she handed out was reported stolen so if this is the case, there's no other possible reason for it other than she intentionally and fruadulently did this to halt the payment.

Either way, if there's anything we can learn from this one: GET PAID WELL IN ADVANCE OF THE EVENT!!!

That's a good post. Especially the last line - very good advice! But, some people still do take payment at the event and I've done that before also! Also, thanks for clarifying yourself. To be fair, "hammer her and teach her a lesson" really doesn't sound good especially on a public forum. Which is why I posted as I did to give you the chance to explain it better! :)

What I will do is explain where I see the whole fraud thing from a legal point of view. I have to stress that I'm not a qualified legal professional but I do have a good understanding of legal matters and I'm quite boring and sad in that I like to research legal cases and case law. The way I do my day job changes regularly because of legal rulings and case law (and it's changed again due to a ruling on a loophole in the so-called "Bedroom Tax"!) and I've been known to read up on cases and appeals during my spare time. But, in Ralph's case, this is how I see it. In law, things are rarely ever clear cut. For it to be fraud, a judge has to rule that the client had the intention of cancelling the cheque when it was presented to Ralph. She could argue that her intention, at that time, was to pay him but she had since had complaints from other attendee's at the party and felt her only method of redress was to withdraw payment. How she stopped the cheque is pretty much irrelevant as, like I've said, there are financial implications for doing so and she could argue she used the method she did to save her the cost which, in hindsight, wasn't the best option. A judge is highly likely to accept that she made an error of judgement on this but that doesn't mean it was fraud as it doesn't prove the intention was there to cancel the cheque from the outset. As someone said earlier, it's likely that the police wouldn't take any action on a fraud allegation like this not because that they don't think it's fraud but the "burdon of proof" is on them and the CPS would probably throw the case out before court as it would be extremely difficult to prove the intention to cancel the cheque was there at the time the cheque was presented to Ralph. That said, it should still be reported to the police because, if the woman does this on a regular basis, the police will already have a file on her which makes proving fraud a lot easier.

At the end of the day, all Ralph wants is to get paid, right? That would be the perfect outcome. Payment is received, cleared then the case is closed. I would urge anyone who needs to use debt-collection measures to ask themselves could they contact the client, either in a letter or by phone, in a calm and professional manner without getting personal or using any allegations other than simply "you owe me money". If they can, do it - that's the cheap way. It's quite easy, really. But, if you can't, then use one of the myriad of services that will do this for you. Some issue letters or make phone calls to the debtor for free and maybe take a % of the debt. At least that way you'll get something back although it might not be the full 100%.

[ukpartydj]

Good luck - don't let them get away with it!

[theoloyla]

Conversely I have just received a cheque from a venue for an Xmas party night which they had paid me for in advance! They were amazed and impressed by my honesty and their ineptitude when I rang and told them.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Conversely I have just received a cheque from a venue for an Xmas party night which they had paid me for in advance! They were amazed and impressed by my honesty and their ineptitude when I rang and told them.

Honesty is always the best policy in this game.

Through the DJing I know one of the event co-ordinators from a big fancy hotel in town quite well and we get on good. Sometimes me and the missus like nipping into their cocktail bar for a few drinks before heading home on a night out.

The last time we were in the co-ordinator was helping the cocktail staff and when we asked for the bill he charged us for 2 drinks, we'd had 8, it's about £7 a drink, you do the maths.

I wasn't sure wether he was doing us a turn or had made a mistake so when he came over to take the bill I told him he'd not charged us the full amount and he was really appreciative as someone had made a mistake with the tab.

The upshot - I came away looking really good and honest (and dare I say with a reasonable chance he'll do me a favour with brides looking for a DJ) whereas if I'd stiffed them for £40 or whatever it was, my name would have been dirt in that place.

[yourdj]

Conversely I have just received a cheque from a venue for an Xmas party night which they had paid me for in advance! They were amazed and impressed by my honesty and their ineptitude when I rang and told them.

Well done for that. lots of people would cash it and claim they got it mixed up.
That will pay dividends to you through trust and bookings. :)

[DiscoMagic]

Conversely I have just received a cheque from a venue for an Xmas party night which they had paid me for in advance! They were amazed and impressed by my honesty and their ineptitude when I rang and told them.


Honesty is always the best policy in this game.

Through the DJing I know one of the event co-ordinators from a big fancy hotel in town quite well and we get on good. Sometimes me and the missus like nipping into their cocktail bar for a few drinks before heading home on a night out.

The last time we were in the co-ordinator was helping the cocktail staff and when we asked for the bill he charged us for 2 drinks, we'd had 8, it's about £7 a drink, you do the maths.

I wasn't sure wether he was doing us a turn or had made a mistake so when he came over to take the bill I told him he'd not charged us the full amount and he was really appreciative as someone had made a mistake with the tab.

The upshot - I came away looking really good and honest (and dare I say with a reasonable chance he'll do me a favour with brides looking for a DJ) whereas if I'd stiffed them for £40 or whatever it was, my name would have been dirt in that place.

Good work guys! Honesty always pays dividends in the end.


So still no reqponse from the client. Email Sent. Recorded Letter Sent (but they were out and not collected from sorting office). If client doesn't pick up today not sure if I should send another letter by Special, and a separate one by normal mail (just to ensure she does get a letter), or whether this would be classed as harassment?

Either way its a learning curve! Although I have to say that I not angry and letting personal feelings get involved, I just think that it is bang out of order to be stitched up like this, and don't want her to think that she can get away with it!

My guess is that she will wait for the official court letter come through and then offer to pay and settle "out of court". At which point I will settle for £150 plus an extra £50 for paid court fees and inconvenience.

My biggest worry is that I run my business from my parents house (my landlord won't allow me to run a business from home), and that she will turn up on their doorstep, possible with "the boys"

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Didn't you say this was for a "friend of a friend"?

I'd of been tempted in a passive aggressive manner to let the mutual friend know what's happened (depending on your relationship with said friend).

Fingers crossed for getting it resolved.

[Sapphire Disco]

I would send another letter in a couple of days if that recorded one does not get picked up, just get a certificate of posting because the postman will just put it through their letter box and you will have proof that you posted it , if you send by special it will cost must more money and they could still refuse to accept it from the postman,

If you want you could put ( without prejudice ) on the second letter then they would not be able to use it against you in anyway in court , sometimes a part of a letter can be misquoted and twisted if the whole of the letter is not read.

[yourdj]

I assume you sent a copy by the same means to yourself at the same time, along with terms of interest charged for delay?
That proves postage (with the receipt for both on the same date). You could also get a witness and take photos but thats a bit OTT.

That way you can prove it was sent.

I would then leave it a month and send another one.
Leave it a further month - send another one.
The legal action on the third month.

The longer you leave it the more interest you can charge for "admin" etc. plus the legal fees.
They will cave after the second one she they know that you are not giving up.

Just make things much less personal as per my previous posts.

Thats just my opinion.

[DazzyD]

I assume you sent a copy by the same means to yourself at the same time, along with terms of interest charged for delay?
That proves postage (with the receipt for both on the same date). You could also get a witness and take photos but thats a bit OTT.

That way you can prove it was sent.

I would then leave it a month and send another one.
Leave it a further month - send another one.
The legal action on the third month.

The longer you leave it the more interest you can charge for "admin" etc. plus the legal fees.
They will cave after the second one she they know that you are not giving up.

Just make things much less personal as per my previous posts.

Thats just my opinion.

I thought giving a month between communications was very generous - until I read your comment about doing this so you can hit the debtor with more interest charges! :eek: In my mind, that's pretty unethical and, also, if the debtor is financially unable to pay, increasing the charges makes it even less likely that you'll get paid in good time. The best outcome would be to settle this situation as quickly as possible. The Office Of Fair Trading have issued guidelines on debt collection practices and, if I remember correctly, they recommended 14 day intervals between sending letters. I'm unable to access the OFT's website at the moment as it's currently offline for "routine maintenance".

[ukpartydj]

I do believe you can charge a fixed £40 compensation fee per invoice along with a statutory amount of interest which I believe is something like 8% above Bank of England base rate.
End of the day if they aren't paying you've given them credit of £150 which they need to pay interest on - I'm uncertain but I believe if you told the client in advance you could have set a ridiculous interest rate and really got them. plenty of info online about this if you want to check for future reference.

[yourdj]

I thought giving a month between communications was very generous - until I read your comment about doing this so you can hit the debtor with more interest charges! :eek: In my mind, that's pretty unethical and, also, if the debtor is financially unable to pay, increasing the charges makes it even less likely that you'll get paid in good time. The best outcome would be to settle this situation as quickly as possible. The Office Of Fair Trading have issued guidelines on debt collection practices and, if I remember correctly, they recommended 14 day intervals between sending letters. I'm unable to access the OFT's website at the moment as it's currently offline for "routine maintenance".

It depends on the fee and situation IMO, but I think you need a set procedure in place as per your t&c's.
14 days would be better I would think. Not had to do it before. :)

I am not talking about charging a massive amount - literally 10% or something depending on the legalities of it and final fee.
The £40 stated probably has more to do with big businesses, i would opt for a smaller daily charge since the letter is issued.
£1 perhaps depending on your outgoings?? after all you will spend at least an 1-2 hours writing and printing letters, delivering them via the post office.
as well as the cost of the postage, which is not cheap recorded. Plus the time you have as a one man band out of pocket.

I think this will not be settled quickly as per the excuses laid out on the phone.
I am not sure of the time but I would personally do one more letter and leave it to debt collection.

If it was a hotel pay for the whole of December delayed till March that could very well bankrupt a small business, so procedures need to be in place. :)

[DJ Jules]

I am not talking about charging a massive amount - literally 10% or something depending on the legalities of it and final fee.
The £40 stated probably has more to do with big businesses, i would opt for a smaller daily charge since the letter is issued.
£1 perhaps depending on your outgoings?? after all you will spend at least an 1-2 hours writing and printing letters, delivering them via the post office.
as well as the cost of the postage, which is not cheap recorded. Plus the time you have as a one man band out of pocket.

Bear in mind that the banks have just gone through the whole court case about unauthorised overdraft fees and if I remember right the crux of that matter was that Consumer groups were arguing that the fees levied (typically £15 per day) were not representative of the costs incurred. So basically the guideline is to recover reasonable costs incurred as part of recovery. On the subject of interest on the debt, you're allowed to recover it based on a set ANNUAL interest rate (again I think the OFT has guidelines on this). The last time I did this (and bear in mind interest rates were much higher 7 years ago). I applied an ANNUAL interest rate of 8.5% to the debt. The reality is that the Small claims action will be the largest cost of recovery and interest and letter writing fees should be small (the last debt I recovered had been due for 6 months and I think I added less than a tenner in fees other than the court costs).


I think this will not be settled quickly as per the excuses laid out on the phone.

Unfortunately agree.


I am not sure of the time but I would personally do one more letter and leave it to debt collection.

Agreed. While no-one is happy with being left with a debt, the guidelines state that you have to treat the customer fairly - and you're also far more likely to recover the debt if you do (rather than spending more time arguing about if the additional charges are "reasonable").

Julian

[Marc J]

So still no reqponse from the client. Email Sent. Recorded Letter Sent (but they were out and not collected from sorting office). If client doesn't pick up today not sure if I should send another letter by Special, and a separate one by normal mail (just to ensure she does get a letter), or whether this would be classed as harassment?

There's your problem right there. They got the email, and knew the recorded letter was from you, so won't bother collecting it. If they hadn't got the email, I bet they'd have taken the recorded delivery and you'd have your proof of delivery.

[Sapphire Disco]

There's your problem right there. They got the email, and knew the recorded letter was from you, so won't bother collecting it. If they hadn't got the email, I bet they'd have taken the recorded delivery and you'd have your proof of delivery.

Very true but if Ralph sends the next letter ordinary first class post and gets a certificate of posting which I think is free or very small cost the postman will put it through their letterbox, the original recorded delivery receipt ( first letter ) along with the certificate of posting ( second letter ) would be more than enough to convince a judge that at least one if not both letters had reached the defendants.

[yourdj]

Unfortunately agree.

Agreed.

I am making headway then. i could be a barrister in a year or two ;)

Good to know all this. I usually get spot on clients and have only had an event that cancelled and did not tell me last year.
They ignored all my communication, which really made me angry as it's such a pathetic thing to do.

I ended up sending a letter to them and also keeping proof of all communication just incase they then turned around after and accused me of not showing up. Kept the booking fee and left it at that. :)

[DJ Jules]

Very true but if Ralph sends the next letter ordinary first class post and gets a certificate of posting which I think is free or very small cost the postman will put it through their letterbox, the original recorded delivery receipt ( first letter ) along with the certificate of posting ( second letter ) would be more than enough to convince a judge that at least one if not both letters had reached the defendants.

If 7 days Royal Mail will return the recorded delivery letter to you. If you try once more and it fails, then go straight to small claims. Ironically the court letters aren't sent with any kind of proof of delivery required and the court won't take non-receipt as any excuse. You just have to show that you have attempted to resolve the matter and the returns from the post office will be sufficient following on from your emails and phone calls.

Julian

[DazzyD]

As someone who has been on the receiving end of debt-collection due to getting in too deep with payday loans (as well as chasing people for debt in my current day job and my previous one - always good to get experience from both sides of the fence!! :zip:) I can honestly say I've never received a letter by recorded or Special Delivery from any of my creditors or debt collection companies. Most of the time, they have contacted me by telephone but, sometimes, I do get a letter as well. Then again, my situation was governed by the Consumer Credit Act whereas, in Ralph's case, this would not apply. I've looked in to this kind of situation a bit deeper the last couple of days and, from what I've found, for businesses such as ours, it's best to have these eventualities covered in detail in our T&Cs something, admittedly, I haven't got. But, having an effective debt collection procedure down in writing is something that I'll be looking in to over the next few days. I'll be Googling for help on just how to word it!

[theoloyla]

So this thread just came up from 4 years ago. What happened? Did you get paid?

[ckpr2]

Gigs with kid scan be a nightmare.
I did an engagement gig and the kids just went wild.
They were running across the stage and knocking into my equipment.
In the end I had to stop as someone was going to get hurt.
The guy who hired me asked what was wrong and I said the kids needed to be off the stage or would get hurt.
He said the parents had just left the kids at the gig and were in the city centre at a night club.
Apparently the kids were left for me to look after.
I said I had enough to do working my equipment and sorting out the play list.
I managed to carry on.

The parents should have been keeping an eye on the kids not me, it wasn't even a kids party.
I don't do kids parties.

[simon1969]

Gigs with kid scan be a nightmare.
I did an engagement gig and the kids just went wild.
They were running across the stage and knocking into my equipment.
In the end I had to stop as someone was going to get hurt.
The guy who hired me asked what was wrong and I said the kids needed to be off the stage or would get hurt.
He said the parents had just left the kids at the gig and were in the city centre at a night club.
Apparently the kids were left for me to look after.
I said I had enough to do working my equipment and sorting out the play list.
I managed to carry on.

The parents should have been keeping an eye on the kids not me, it wasn't even a kids party.
I don't do kids parties.
What has this to do with this thread?