Marque wedding - limited sound

[DJColsie]

Hi

Was booked for a marque wedding last night. The request advised that the venue had a sound limiter. Ok I thought.

Did a site visit with the client and it turns out the marque had its own sound system (4 Bose speakers and 2 w audio amps) which had to be used. This was monitored as part of their licensing agreement. Laptop mixer and lights only required. On visit tested system with my iPad and sounded reasonable sweet but a bit lite in the base.

All good I thought.

Turn up 90 mins before start time and speeches just ending, all seems good. Events manager greets me with a smile and asks if I would like a drink! On returning with drink she mumbles that they had had trouble with the mike during the speeches and it didn't seem very loud or clear.

Set up booth, lighting and washes. Connect mixer to sound system and find only one channel is working! Turns out that one amp had blown and the way it was wired one amp fed 2 speakers for one channel and the other amp fed two speakers for the second channel. Due to the licensing thing, all four speakers were focused towards the dance floor, one either side of booth and two suspended from truss over dance floor? So I had the speaker to my left and the far right working off the left channel only!

The cautious person in me had bought the HD12as as back up but despite my pleading that I would keep the volume down (they had mics in the trees outside), the manger said their license only applied with the house PA system.

Well got through with many requests from a mainly 20-30 audience to turn it up. Good night had by all and requests for cards at the end. But couldn't help thinking how much better it could have been.

Made me think. Are we just perfectionists and judge ourselves too harshly and have any of you had experiences were you have been forced to rely on other peoples inferior equipment when your reputation is at stake?

[Shaun]

have any of you had experiences were you have been forced to rely on other peoples inferior equipment when your reputation is at stake?

I have a clause in my T&C's stating that I can only provide my service using my own equipment. I also turn away bookings for venues with sound limiters installed.

As you've just experienced, there is no way to guage the reliability of third party equipment, and ultimately your performance on the evening could be diminished. The vast majority of the guests will have no idea that the sound limitations imposed by the venue have nothing to do with you. How many of those guests will be going home thinking the DJs sound system was awful?

As more and more venues install these kind of systems, and install sound limiters, the likelihood of me losing more and more work will become more of an issue. Such as life though. I've spent a lot of money getting my system setup up so it's perfect for the service I provide. I'd rather turn away work than have the performance affected by poor equipment and/or sound limitations beyond my control.

[Excalibur]

Colin, I don't think you could have doneanything differently, shame your ( and your guests ) night was so impaired thus. ( Just a thought. Did you tell the venue that you always work with "monitors"? Monitors which might just have been set a tad louder than the main PA :whistle: ) I once got away with using my own kit in a venue because we couldn't connect my sockets to the in-house limited one. ( The in-house was a very powerful one, must have only been ticking over. I used to use it when we could give it full throttle, that sounded nice. )
A blown W Audio amp, eh? I hope you told them I've got one for sale on here. ;):D:D

Shaun, as always, I admire your stance, I applaud your principles. However, I ask myyself, do I value my reputation more than my bank balance? I'm a pragmatist, and I'll take any route to allow me to continue working. I moved from Hard Drive Controllers which I was pretty happy with to laptops, because I needed to be able to offer Karaoke, in order to fend off some local competition. The laptop route is far better for me, but I ( probably ) wouldn't have taken it otherwise.

As always, in such circumstances, I would ave taken every opportunity to point out that the venue kit was at fault, and I wasn't allowed to use my own.

I'd have probably pointed it out between every record. Contrast last night, when the band had a fabulous Logic Ethos system, and a huge backline, and I was running a very creditable second with four subs and the new tops at full whack. Quiet it wasn't. :D

[DJColsie]

I've worked with sound limiters before. I wouldn't refuse work for a limiter. Some of my best gigs have been in venues with limiters.

The main thing was that, in my professional opinion, the night was impaired when it needn't have been. The traffic light system for the limiter run from the mics in the trees was plainly visible and I could have stayed well with in that and put on a better show with clear quality sound.

Guess the issue of trying to get attractive and desirable wedding venues in convenient locations that guests don't have to drive to will ever be thus!

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I have a clause in my T&C's stating that I can only provide my service using my own equipment. I also turn away bookings for venues with sound limiters installed.

As you've just experienced, there is no way to guage the reliability of third party equipment, and ultimately your performance on the evening could be diminished. The vast majority of the guests will have no idea that the sound limitations imposed by the venue have nothing to do with you. How many of those guests will be going home thinking the DJs sound system was awful?

As more and more venues install these kind of systems, and install sound limiters, the likelihood of me losing more and more work will become more of an issue. Such as life though. I've spent a lot of money getting my system setup up so it's perfect for the service I provide. I'd rather turn away work than have the performance affected by poor equipment and/or sound limitations beyond my control.

Nothing a quick announcement explaining why the sound is rubbish wouldn't absolve you from?

We have professional reputations to maintain, if something outwith my control is making me look bad, you can bet people are going to know about it.

Did a birthday party for a pal a while ago in a place with a ridiculous sound limiter. People kept asking me to turn it up so I killed all of the music (it was so bad, making an announcement even with a quiet bed underneath was pushing it) and as I explained to people why the music was so low, the thing tripped and cut me off. Just me talking on the mic!!!

Once the catering staff had disappeared I was able to bypass the sockets linked to the limiter but if I hadn't been able to do that, the night would have been dreadful music wise and I see no reason why I should be the one carrying the can for that...

[Shaun]

Nothing a quick announcement explaining why the sound is rubbish wouldn't absolve you from?



In a perfect world, where everyone listens and absorbs the information said in announcements, then that might do the trick. However... :)

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

In a perfect world, where everyone listens and absorbs the information said in announcements, then that might do the trick. However... :)

Touche sir. I suppose the one I mentioned, the announcement cutting out the system and then me being able to shout "If I go over a certain volume the power cuts" probably did the trick.

Of course you could always mingle with guests and covertly lay it out for them "can you hear OK? it's just I've got to use their system and it's not working properly"

[Excalibur]

Guess the issue of trying to get attractive and desirable wedding venues in convenient locations that guests don't have to drive to will ever be thus!
I think the issue is more of folk buying houses close to longstanding venues cheap, and then complaining cos the venue and resultant noise is there. Having your cake and eating it.


Nothing a quick announcement explaining why the sound is rubbish wouldn't absolve you from?

I notice you have used the singular. With me, it wouldn't be just one, oh no!! ;)


In a perfect world, where everyone listens and absorbs the information said in announcements, then that might do the trick. However... :)
Again, when you stop the music totally about twenty times, I'd expect at least ten per cent to take note. :(




Of course you could always mingle with guests and covertly lay it out for them "can you hear OK? it's just I've got to use their system and it's not working properly"

And again Sir, my plan would be " Overtly". Anyway, you're a singer, couldn't you have just switched the disco off, grabbed the acoustic guitar, and given them the benefit of your talent? :D

[Shaun]

Again, when you stop the music totally about twenty times, I'd expect at least ten per cent to take note. :(


Any percentage that thinks the DJ is to blame is too much of a percentage. I'd much rather turn away jobs than be at the mercy of issues that will have a detrimental effect on the evening, and ultimately the service I'd provide. If I can't give 100% then I'd rather hold out for a booking where I can.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Anyway, you're a singer, couldn't you have just switched the disco off, grabbed the acoustic guitar, and given them the benefit of your talent? :D

Talent? :confused::zip:

[DJColsie]

I think the issue is more of folk buying houses close to longstanding venues cheap, and then complaining cos the venue and resultant noise is there. Having your cake and eating it.


It was the other way round this time. Pub with very large garden in middle of established houseing estate gets greedy and tries to put in margue to boost business when established residents complain. Only licensed under the aforementioned restrictions and only in June, July and August.

[Excalibur]

Any percentage that thinks the DJ is to blame is too much of a percentage. I'd much rather turn away jobs than be at the mercy of issues that will have a detrimental effect on the evening, and ultimately the service I'd provide. If I can't give 100% then I'd rather hold out for a booking where I can.
I admire you, I doff my cap to you, and acknowledge that my morals can be assuaged with money. It was ever thus.


Talent? :confused::zip:
Oh come on! Benefit of the doubt. :D:D


It was the other way round this time. Pub with very large garden in middle of established houseing estate gets greedy and tries to put in margue to boost business when established residents complain. Only licensed under the aforementioned restrictions and only in June, July and August.
Oh thanks, rubbish my argument completely, why don't you? :D:D
I know whereof you speak. There's a village near me where the sleepy old local has become a trendy gastro pub. It's an award winner, with a burning desire to expand, and they too have a marquee in their field when they can. Sadly, all this incenses the locals, mainly due to the cavalier attitude of the pub managenent regarding regs and restrictions.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I agree with Shaun on this. I too have turned down work at venues where sound limiters are installed. Sometimes it's a bit of a pain in the backside but I know the venues that have them installed in my area and I know the levels and I have had experiences with them, nothing too bad but enough to put me off.
One nice venue a few miles from me that I do a couple of times a year has an 11.30pm finish time and the sound is monitored by the owner or her staff via a handheld monitor. I went out and bought the same thing so I could monitor the sound myself.

The OP on this occasion must have struggled a bit and I can understand his frustration, especially in a marquee where generally you need a bit more oomph.

I'd like to ask a question too regarding sound limiters....
Are there different types of sound limiters? I'm not asking about models, let me explain.

I've done a number of events where sound limiters have been installed and it's usually the same deal in that you plug in to a dedicated socket and the sound is monitored via your system. It's a pain in the proverbial when you have to keep looking up to see if you're getting near the dreaded red light and especially when you think the volume isn't loud enough for the number of guests in attendance. What I am saying is on most occasions that sound limiter is monitoring what YOU are doing.

I've had one occasion a few years back where I was at a recently refurbished venue. I was told there was a sound limiter installed and so I visited the venue beforehand and met the caretaker. He told me the usual stuff about how he didn't have a key for it and that he wasn't allowed to tamper with it and how all DJ's MUST plug in to a dedicated socket.....all the stuff I already knew BUT it seemed to be set at a reasonable level and I thought I could work with it so I took the booking on. I actually had another 2 enquiries come in for bookings at the same place and seeing as I had visited it already, I took them on.

Now, my first visit didn't go to plan really. It was a Surprise 20th Wedding Anniversary party. I set up in the morning, sound checked knowing that I had an empty hall but had a little bit of leeway and thought everything would be ok. When it came to the evening and guests were arriving, I played background music at a low level but noticed that the lights on the sound limiter were already amber and I was concerned. I didn't say anything at the time.
Now, the idea was that as the party was a surprise, when the guests of honour walked through the door they would walk in to their favourite song and all the lights would come on and it would make an impact - or so we all thought.

As they walked through the door I turned on the lights and pressed play on the Denon. Everyone cheered and shouted "Surprise!" and then everything went off. We were in darkness for a couple of seconds (seemed like ages at the time). I realised then that the sound limiters were probably monitoring the overall sound in the venue and NOT just the sound coming from my system. I wasn't happy at all. I explained over the microphone what was happening and luckily people DID listen. I spoke to the couples daughter who had organised the surprise party and told her the score. She was fine with me but not happy with the venue and was on the phone to the caretaker.

Now, despite everything he had told me previously and everything that I knew already, he actually said to me "There's a socket at the front of the stage that isn't connected to the sound limiter. Try that" - I couldn't believe it, I wondered why he couldn't have told me that before. I remember saying over the microphone that if people gave me 5 minutes to sort it, we'd be able to carry on with no problems. I did this and it was fine for the rest of the evening even though I knew what we'd done was wrong. I kept thinking that I had another 2 bookings at the venue to get through too.

So, are there 2 different types of sound limiter then? One that monitors YOUR sound and the other that monitors OVERALL sound? I know I could have asked that easily at the beginning but wanted to give an example. I have been back to the venue once since those 3 bookings and I just plugged straight in to the socket that wasn't connected.

Also like Shaun, I always state that I will only use my own equipment.

[DJColsie]

I agree with Shaun on this. I too have turned down work at venues where sound limiters are installed. Sometimes it's a bit of a pain in the backside but I know the venues that have them installed in my area and I know the levels and I have had experiences with them, nothing too bad but enough to put me off.
One nice venue a few miles from me that I do a couple of times a year has an 11.30pm finish time and the sound is monitored by the owner or her staff via a handheld monitor. I went out and bought the same thing so I could monitor the sound myself.

The OP on this occasion must have struggled a bit and I can understand his frustration, especially in a marquee where generally you need a bit more oomph.

I'd like to ask a question too regarding sound limiters....
Are there different types of sound limiters? I'm not asking about models, let me explain.

I've done a number of events where sound limiters have been installed and it's usually the same deal in that you plug in to a dedicated socket and the sound is monitored via your system. It's a pain in the proverbial when you have to keep looking up to see if you're getting near the dreaded red light and especially when you think the volume isn't loud enough for the number of guests in attendance. What I am saying is on most occasions that sound limiter is monitoring what YOU are doing.

I've had one occasion a few years back where I was at a recently refurbished venue. I was told there was a sound limiter installed and so I visited the venue beforehand and met the caretaker. He told me the usual stuff about how he didn't have a key for it and that he wasn't allowed to tamper with it and how all DJ's MUST plug in to a dedicated socket.....all the stuff I already knew BUT it seemed to be set at a reasonable level and I thought I could work with it so I took the booking on. I actually had another 2 enquiries come in for bookings at the same place and seeing as I had visited it already, I took them on.

Now, my first visit didn't go to plan really. It was a Surprise 20th Wedding Anniversary party. I set up in the morning, sound checked knowing that I had an empty hall but had a little bit of leeway and thought everything would be ok. When it came to the evening and guests were arriving, I played background music at a low level but noticed that the lights on the sound limiter were already amber and I was concerned. I didn't say anything at the time.
Now, the idea was that as the party was a surprise, when the guests of honour walked through the door they would walk in to their favourite song and all the lights would come on and it would make an impact - or so we all thought.

As they walked through the door I turned on the lights and pressed play on the Denon. Everyone cheered and shouted "Surprise!" and then everything went off. We were in darkness for a couple of seconds (seemed like ages at the time). I realised then that the sound limiters were probably monitoring the overall sound in the venue and NOT just the sound coming from my system. I wasn't happy at all. I explained over the microphone what was happening and luckily people DID listen. I spoke to the couples daughter who had organised the surprise party and told her the score. She was fine with me but not happy with the venue and was on the phone to the caretaker.

Now, despite everything he had told me previously and everything that I knew already, he actually said to me "There's a socket at the front of the stage that isn't connected to the sound limiter. Try that" - I couldn't believe it, I wondered why he couldn't have told me that before. I remember saying over the microphone that if people gave me 5 minutes to sort it, we'd be able to carry on with no problems. I did this and it was fine for the rest of the evening even though I knew what we'd done was wrong. I kept thinking that I had another 2 bookings at the venue to get through too.

So, are there 2 different types of sound limiter then? One that monitors YOUR sound and the other that monitors OVERALL sound? I know I could have asked that easily at the beginning but wanted to give an example. I have been back to the venue once since those 3 bookings and I just plugged straight in to the socket that wasn't connected.

Also like Shaun, I always state that I will only use my own equipment.

All the ones that I have worked with are based on a microphone somewhere in the venue, so include noise from the audience too.

One venue cut all power for 3 seconds, not just the DJ sockets.

[Benny Smyth]

I give venues with limiters one chance. 99% of the time, part way through the gig they can see that I'm not a cowboy and can use my judgement so they turn them off but if they don't like to play along, I turn down work for those venues.

I actually have a 'banned' list of venues for a variety of reasons.

[Excalibur]

Gary, if Katman, or Davesounds come along, they'll give you chapter and verse. There are many types of limiter, some brilliant, some a nightmare. The best ones don't cut the power, they lower your sound, cos you plug your speakers into it.