Some people just don't get it do they?

[little al]

You might be interested to read a thread on another forum I post on regarding "doing your own wedding music".

I despair I really do.

http://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=253796

[ckpr2]

I found other peoples DJ software hard to use so I wrote my own fairly simple software.
It has the directory listing on the left and you drag and drop tracks to the playlist on the right.
It automatically plays one track after another.
It has an option to eject a track if need be.
It has a pause button too.
It has a volume control.
This works just fine.

I did a gig a few years back where the groom provided a ipod and I provided sound equipment and lights.

[Pe7e]

Why do you despair? this has been going on for years, many years ago I came to the conclusion there was a market for 'dry hire' of equipment for discos and weddings etc.. The majority of people seeking to go down the DIY route, are a result of an horrendous experience at the hands of an incompetent operator pretending to be an experienced DJ. After every dry hire I debrief the client when possible, and hear the same thing time and time again, ignore it at your peril.

[funkymook]

You can't dismiss threads like that, in fact they're really helpful, some companies pay a fortune for market research and that gives it to us for free.

So lets turn it into a positive and analyse it - reading through the comments what do people see as the main concerns?

[ukpartydj]

I think there is a place in the market for dry hire, if you're having a small wedding or you're not really into parties for example. Or if you're mates a DJ but has no equipment.

I'm assuming that those who say wedding DJs are rubbish don't really like "wedding music", which is fine - I used to hate it but then I liked Hard Rock and Heavy metal ... good luck making 16 year old me happy with music choices at a wedding!!

[funkymook]

I think there is a place in the market for dry hire, if you're having a small wedding or you're not really into parties for example. Or if you're mates a DJ but has no equipment.

I'm assuming that those who say wedding DJs are rubbish don't really like "wedding music", which is fine - I used to hate it but then I liked Hard Rock and Heavy metal ... good luck making 16 year old me happy with music choices at a wedding!!

Surely 'wedding music' is any music played at a wedding? Aren't you displaying the same preconceptions seen on that thread?

[Pe7e]

Surely 'wedding music' is any music played at a wedding? Aren't you displaying the same preconceptions seen on that thread?

Exactly, :D

[Benny Smyth]

Leave them to it. If it works for them, great; they've saved a few hundred quid. If it fails, then they will know to book a DJ next time.

I once had a bridesmaid call me at 9pm on a Wednesday evening. The B&G hired a jukebox, but the groom and best man were playing all the songs that they wanted to hear and the bride was in tears 'cos it was all going to pot. If I took it on, by the time I would have got there and set up, it'd be time to take down again, so sadly I had to say no.

I'll worry about the gigs that I can get - not the one's I can't. :)

[funkymook]

I'll worry about the gigs that I can get - not the one's I can't. :)

I'm the opposite, the one I do get I don't need to worry about, I've got 'em. The ones I don't get I want to know why in case I can improve my marketing etc.

[Benny Smyth]

I'm the opposite, the one I do get I don't need to worry about, I've got 'em. The ones I don't get I want to know why in case I can improve my marketing etc.

So you'd fret over a couple who wants an iPod over a DJ? And you'd prioritise that over, say, a wedding fayre?

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Issues?

The only issue I see is the people giving it "they just play the same :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored:" obviously don't understand what the vast majority of wedding clients and guests want to hear.

If he ever did the rounds with me taking requests during the buffet he would quickly realise that the reason you always hear Brown Eyed Girl, I Gotta Feeling, 9 to 5, 500 miles etc... at weddings is because that's what the bloody people want to hear at weddings.

There's a reason as soon as someone says the term "wedding DJ" most people think of ABBA.

[funkymook]

So you'd fret over a couple who wants an iPod over a DJ? And you'd prioritise that over, say, a wedding fayre?

Actually I would as I don't do wedding fayres.

If I can understand why someone was thinking of having an iPod instead of a DJ and effectively market to them then that's bookings I wouldn't have got otherwise. And my particular target audience are probably more likely to consider going down that route than most (and it's certainly not a money issue).

What business isn't interested in why people don't book them?

[ukpartydj]

Surely 'wedding music' is any music played at a wedding? Aren't you displaying the same preconceptions seen on that thread?

I think that's a bit silly. If a guest asks for "club music" I'd know exactly what they mean and it wouldn't be any music played in a club because just like weddings there is a variety of music played some of which is not club music.

It is true though ... most of the time we play the same rubbish ... over and over again, because it's what people like! Most people will be happy with that but there are the minority who in my opinion really like music and they can see that Blurred Lines is a pile of :Censored: and gangnam style doesn't even make sense. So to them - you're rubbish for playing rubbish!

[funkymook]

I think that's a bit silly. If a guest asks for "club music" I'd know exactly what they mean and it wouldn't be any music played in a club because just like weddings there is a variety of music played some of which is not club music.

It is true though ... most of the time we play the same rubbish ... over and over again, because it's what people like! Most people will be happy with that but there are the minority who in my opinion really like music and they can see that Blurred Lines is a pile of :Censored: and gangnam style doesn't even make sense. So to them - you're rubbish for playing rubbish!

If someone just said 'club music' to me I wouldn't be any the wiser....

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I think that's a bit silly. If a guest asks for "club music" I'd know exactly what they mean and it wouldn't be any music played in a club because just like weddings there is a variety of music played some of which is not club music.

It is true though ... most of the time we play the same rubbish ... over and over again, because it's what people like! Most people will be happy with that but there are the minority who in my opinion really like music and they can see that Blurred Lines is a pile of :Censored: and gangnam style doesn't even make sense. So to them - you're rubbish for playing rubbish!

I was at a wedding for a mate a while ago and a few things occurred to me:

1. The music was rubbish
2. It was the same sort of stuff I play at weddings
3. People were dancing and enjoying it from the start
4. After a good few beers I was up giving it heavy shapes too

With the best will in the world we'd all be dropping some really meaningful left field sets that people really listened to and got into but the nature of the wedding job is that you play what the masses want and that's generally throwaway pop and cheese and if someone can't comprehend that their love of Bulgarian panpipe covers of Mozart doesn't a party make then they're not the client for me.

[funkymook]

I was at a wedding for a mate a while ago and a few things occurred to me:

1. The music was rubbish
2. It was the same sort of stuff I play at weddings
3. People were dancing and enjoying it from the start
4. After a good few beers I was up giving it heavy shapes too

With the best will in the world we'd all be dropping some really meaningful left field sets that people really listened to and got into but the nature of the wedding job is that you play what the masses want and that's generally throwaway pop and cheese and if someone can't comprehend that their love of Bulgarian panpipe covers of Mozart doesn't a party make then they're not the client for me.

One of my B&G's remarked once about their friends wedding 'we danced in spite of the DJ, not because of them' - as you say, not your clients.

[ukpartydj]

If someone just said 'club music' to me I wouldn't be any the wiser....

I get that with some genre's like ... "bassline" no idea what that is.
For your future reference club music is essentially electronic commercial house music with a euphoric lively sound.
Tracks like: Avicii - Wake me up, Icona Pop - I love it, + Many Pitbull, David Guetta & Calvin Harris tracks.
However Hip-Hop etc are often played in clubs - I certainly wouldn't call it club music.



I was at a wedding for a mate a while ago and a few things occurred to me:

1. The music was rubbish
2. It was the same sort of stuff I play at weddings


Very honest of you! :D


One of my B&G's remarked once about their friends wedding 'we danced in spite of the DJ, not because of them' - as you say, not your clients.

I sometimes find it hard when somebody says "there just going through the motions they're not really dancing because they like it" ... because I used to go to an club which played underground house and I didn't know a single track I just liked drinking and dancing!

[funkymook]

I sometimes find it hard when somebody says "there just going through the motions they're not really dancing because they like it" ... because I used to go to an club which played underground house and I didn't know a single track I just liked drinking and dancing!

No, these people danced because they didn't want their friends wedding to be a flop (he came with the venue apparently and pretty much refused to play any requests) - which is why they made sure they got a DJ who understood what they wanted for their own wedding.

[Excalibur]

Surely 'wedding music' is any music played at a wedding? Aren't you displaying the same preconceptions seen on that thread?
While that is undeniably true, I believe you're taking the phrase literally.
I thoroughly approve, tee hee.


I was at a wedding for a mate a while ago and a few things occurred to me:

1. The music was rubbish
2. It was the same sort of stuff I play at weddings

I can't, I just can't. Takes all the fun out of itwhen it's so easy. :zip::D:D


- which is why they made sure they got a DJ who understood what they wanted for their own wedding.

Oh crap, it's time to be serious again. :( We're slap dab betwixt the Devil and the deep blue sea. Steering the tricky course between filling the dancefloor by liberal use of The Usual Suspects, but leaving ourselves open to accusations of laziness and lack of good taste, or playing music of the highest musical integrity to a :Tumble: dancefloor.
We are indeed fortunate when we can fill the dancefloor with more from the second category than the first. Not surprisingly, these are sporadic, for the simple reason that as pointed out earlier, we tend to play what gets the greatest amount of bodies on the dancefloor.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

As a caveat I don't mean it was TERRIBLE music (I be dropping all sorts of choonz :o ) I mean rubbish as in "why is he playing Katy Perry instead of Springsteen" cranky old duffer chat (Though 9 to 5 is absolute gash, I make no apologies about that)

Which comes back to the point that if I wanted to go out and play only the kind of stuff I listen to and like with no consideration for my audience, I would be one of those rubbish DJs nobody likes which is clearly what the guys in that thread have missed the point of.

















Have I dug myself out yet? :D

[funkymook]

I'm absolutely gutted for the people in that thread who wanted BritPop, Ska and 60's but got 70's and Whitney instead - criminal!

[yourdj]

I despair I really do.

http://www.cpfc.org/forums/showthread.php?t=253796

Is this not a football forum? :)

Its like discussing football on a wedding forum. I can bet they would make ignorant sweeping statements based on watching a couple of games on TV with an ex boyfriend or something. Brides book the music 90% of the time or at least have the final say in my experience, so who cares what a few football fans think ;)

They are probably the people who sit at the back drinking beer all night and don't get involved. As it says they will have a crap wedding, which is their fault at the end of the day, i don't care as i will be supplying a client who understands good entertainment and will pay for it :)

[Excalibur]

Have I dug myself out yet? :D

Dunno, but you've confused me beyond belief. :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :D

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Dunno, but you've confused me beyond belief. :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused: :D

People (myself included) dance to and enjoy naff music at a party after a few scoops.

The guy in question is probably one of those tools that spends the night in a club making snidey comments about folk who are enjoying themselves. We all know the kind.

[funkymook]

People (myself included) dance to and enjoy naff music at a party after a few scoops.

The guy in question is probably one of those tools that spends the night in a club making snidey comments about folk who are enjoying themselves. We all know the kind.

There were several people commenting on that thread, so it's not the opinion of just one person. So rather than trying to understand why they might not want to book a DJ and see if you can learn anything to help convert more bookings you just dismiss them with a few insults....sort of confirms their view.


One last try - what do people think the main objections to booking a DJ are from these people?

Once identified we can look at overcoming these objections.

[Benny Smyth]

There were several people commenting on that thread, so it's not the opinion of just one person. So rather than trying to understand why they might not want to book a DJ and see if you can learn anything to help convert more bookings you just dismiss them with a few insults....sort of confirms their view.


One last try - what do people think the main objections to booking a DJ are from these people?

Once identified we can look at overcoming these objections.

Money. That, I would suggest, would be the primary reason.

If I may use weddings as an example, there are those that don't realise before the big day that the DJ will be the last supplier that they hire and as such, will probably be the lasting memory. You'll remember the ceremony, a few random moments of the day and probably the last two hours of the evening entertainment. The last wedding I went to, I honestly couldn't tell you what I had to eat for the wedding breakfast or the evening buffet. I don't even recall if the photographer was male or female.

When I end up speaking to an enquirer, I always use the "buffet rule" when they ask why do I charge what I charge. For ease of maths, we'll use a hundred guests at a wedding. You're evening food price will be anywhere between £5.50 - £12 a head. How many people will walk away from the day and say "Blimey! That was, by far, the best sausage roll I have ever had in my life!"? I would hazard a guess and say nobody. The DJ is something you would always remember - be it for positive or negative reasons. All of a sudden, £4.50 to £6 a head for a hundred guests doesn't sound so much and it's scary that there are those out there charging 90p a head.

To a lot of people, we as DJs are an afterthought.

[funkymook]

Money. That, I would suggest, would be the primary reason.

If I may use weddings as an example, there are those that don't realise before the big day that the DJ will be the last supplier that they hire and as such, will probably be the lasting memory. You'll remember the ceremony, a few random moments of the day and probably the last two hours of the evening entertainment. The last wedding I went to, I honestly couldn't tell you what I had to eat for the wedding breakfast or the evening buffet. I don't even recall if the photographer was male or female.

When I end up speaking to an enquirer, I always use the "buffet rule" when they ask why do I charge what I charge. For ease of maths, we'll use a hundred guests at a wedding. You're evening food price will be anywhere between £5.50 - £12 a head. How many people will walk away from the day and say "Blimey! That was, by far, the best sausage roll I have ever had in my life!"? I would hazard a guess and say nobody. The DJ is something you would always remember - be it for positive or negative reasons. All of a sudden, £4.50 to £6 a head for a hundred guests doesn't sound so much and it's scary that there are those out there charging 90p a head.

To a lot of people, we as DJs are an afterthought.

I wasn't seeing much talk about costs in that thread, it was more about previous bad DJ experiences, the 'negative reasons'. From those experiences they don't trust a DJ to do a decent job - playing the right music, taking requests, professionalism. Which means it's shouldn't be difficult to stand heads and shoulders above those who can't even manage those basics.

I think most people will find the funds to pay for something they want at their wedding - the trick of course is making them really want you.

[Benny Smyth]

I wasn't seeing much talk about costs in that thread, it was more about previous bad DJ experiences, the 'negative reasons'. From those experiences they don't trust a DJ to do a decent job - playing the right music, taking requests, professionalism. Which means it's shouldn't be difficult to stand heads and shoulders above those who can't even manage those basics.

I think most people will find the funds to pay for something they want at their wedding - the trick of course is making them really want you.

No there wasn't much talk about cost, but surely it goes without saying? If you've paid for anything that turns out to be rubbish, it was a waste of money. People don't throw money at things that they don't see the value in.

[funkymook]

No there wasn't much talk about cost, but surely it goes without saying? If you've paid for anything that turns out to be rubbish, it was a waste of money. People don't throw money at things that they don't see the value in.

Cost and value are two different things. Just because someone doesn't see the value in something doesn't mean they can't afford it. If they are convinced of the value they will pay for it.

I bet if a good wedding DJ sat down with the person thinking of doing an iPod wedding they could easily change their mind, and it won't be because they're cheaper than an iPod.

[Benny Smyth]

Cost and value are two different things. Just because someone doesn't see the value in something doesn't mean they can't afford it. If they are convinced of the value they will pay for it.

I bet if a good wedding DJ sat down with the person thinking of doing an iPod wedding they could easily change their mind, and it won't be because they're cheaper than an iPod.

And how would you end up in a situation to talk to someone who would choose an iPod over a DJ?

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

And how would you end up in a situation to talk to someone who would choose an iPod over a DJ?

Maybe they have booked something else with you?

[funkymook]

And how would you end up in a situation to talk to someone who would choose an iPod over a DJ?

Could happen any number of ways, as Darren says, you may be suppling other services, or you may get another supplier advising their iPod client to speak to you first, you could hear about a friend of a friend considering it, a dry hire enquiry etc etc. But unless you understand why they might be thinking like that you won't have a hope of selling yourself as a DJ, which is why insights from that type of thread are helpful.

[DazzyD]

Money. That, I would suggest, would be the primary reason.If I may use weddings as an example, there are those that don't realise before the big day that the DJ will be the last supplier that they hire and as such, will probably be the lasting memory. You'll remember the ceremony, a few random moments of the day and probably the last two hours of the evening entertainment. The last wedding I went to, I honestly couldn't tell you what I had to eat for the wedding breakfast or the evening buffet. I don't even recall if the photographer was male or female.

When I end up speaking to an enquirer, I always use the "buffet rule" when they ask why do I charge what I charge. For ease of maths, we'll use a hundred guests at a wedding. You're evening food price will be anywhere between £5.50 - £12 a head. How many people will walk away from the day and say "Blimey! That was, by far, the best sausage roll I have ever had in my life!"? I would hazard a guess and say nobody. The DJ is something you would always remember - be it for positive or negative reasons. All of a sudden, £4.50 to £6 a head for a hundred guests doesn't sound so much and it's scary that there are those out there charging 90p a head.

To a lot of people, we as DJs are an afterthought.

I'd say it would be very dangerous to assume that cost is the be all and end all in this situation. We've had tales from members in these situations where they've been able to handle objections and then even upsell other services so the client has paid even more. Every client is different so I'd speak to them directly to see what their issues are and then work around them. A good salesman knows that 99.9% of cases the client can be won around when you find some common ground to work with. But there are the 0.1% of people that simply don't want it and no amount of objection resolution will work. If you are prepared to walk away because you assume it's all about price then you must be prepared to lose out on a lot of potential work.

And we all know what you assume is, don't we??

[Excalibur]

One last try - what do people think the main objections to booking a DJ are from these people?




Money. That, I would suggest, would be the primary reason.



I disagree. There are good DJ's available at a price for every pocket.

Main objection? Simples. Paying somebody to not play what they want. No more, no less.
First thing we have to convince them of is that we'll play what they want, and not just the hackneyed old standards. ( Seems funny calling Gangnam Style a standard, but hey ho. :D )

Secondly, we have to explain to them that we know what we're doing, and are capable of dealing with most of the usual occurences. This may include deviating from their rigid playlist a little or a lot, for the good of the party. ( The next argument is what is our aim? Pleasing our clients, or the masses? I'll start the thread shortly )

Lastly, we have to explain that our extortionate fees for simply pressing play are in fact simply the going rate for hiring a professional to do a job that may take two, three or more times longer hours putting in than just the performance.


Now where's that flying pig smiley gone??????????????????????????????

[Benny Smyth]

I'd say it would be very dangerous to assume that cost is the be all and end all in this situation. We've had tales from members in these situations where they've been able to handle objections and then even upsell other services so the client has paid even more. Every client is different so I'd speak to them directly to see what their issues are and then work around them. A good salesman knows that 99.9% of cases the client can be won around when you find some common ground to work with. But there are the 0.1% of people that simply don't want it and no amount of objection resolution will work. If you are prepared to walk away because you assume it's all about price then you must be prepared to lose out on a lot of potential work.

And we all know what you assume is, don't we??

I think walking away is the wrong way to put it. I would say that 90% of the enquiries that I have that don't book have told me that they booked elsewhere because there is a cheaper alternative. A handful tell me that they would like uplighting and/or dancefloors (or other services like a photobooth) included with the service, which is something I don't provide. I have contacts that can provide them but it is easier to get it all from one source and whilst I do offer to work as the middle man so they don't have to worry about multiple suppliers, I would have to charge a bit more for my time organising this, which brings it round to cost again. The rest are unfortunately those who feel that I'm not the right fit.

Those three covers the main reasons why I lose out on a booking. I won't discount as that would be unfair to both me and my other clients who have paid full price. At this point in time, I don't have a desire to offer an extras as I enjoy focussing on doing what I'm good at, and I have a very good setup to go with it (although I may change my view in a few years with regards to extra services) and as for the last one, there's not a lot I can do about it. If you find someone you get along better with who you feel that can offer as good or better than I, then that's great.

[funkymook]

I would say that 90% of the enquiries that I have that don't book have told me that they booked elsewhere because there is a cheaper alternative.

Any indication how much cheaper?

[Benny Smyth]

Any indication how much cheaper?

As broad a range as you can imagine. Excluding those who go for 'Sixty Quid Sid', I would say the range would be anywhere between £30 - £250.

[funkymook]

As broad a range as you can imagine. Excluding those who go for 'Sixty Quid Sid', I would say the range would be anywhere between £30 - £250.

What's your percentage of non-bookers after quoting, and do you get/ask for feedback from all of them? Do they ask you to price match?

Must admit, depending on the circumstances (mainly chances of taking another booking), I would adjust my fee if asked, not by much admittedly, but a small discount can mean the difference between working or an unbooked night - I think there has to be a certain amount of flexibility.

I do think that anyone who loses a booking by a relatively small amount is missing something if they believe money was the only reason - there are probably other factors involved.

[Benny Smyth]

What's your percentage of non-bookers after quoting, and do you get/ask for feedback from all of them? Do they ask you to price match?

Must admit, depending on the circumstances (mainly chances of taking another booking), I would adjust my fee if asked, not by much admittedly, but a small discount can mean the difference between working or an unbooked night - I think there has to be a certain amount of flexibility.

I do think that anyone who loses a booking by a relatively small amount is missing something if they believe money was the only reason - there are probably other factors involved.

Exact percentage, I couldn't tell you. Maybe a quarter to a third. As for feedback, it is usually offered when I get a response from enquirers. If not, I do ask and the responses I get are as previously stated.

I feel very uncomfortable doing discounts. I had a friend drop his prices one year as his previous year was not as fruitful as he was used to. A bride from a previous wedding got wind of this and went absolutely ballistic at him over it (and rightfully so, to be fair). It is unfair on other clients to discount for someone else.

I have been booked/are booked for 64 gigs in 2014 (fingers crossed for more). If I dropped a quote by the lowest price difference I have been compared to - in this case £30 - then by rights I should drop them all to keep things fair. That's nearly £2,000. And what if I added the 40-odd bookings I already have in 2015?

Maybe my outlook is naive, but I consider myself to be very happy with my current position. Whilst I am not setting the world alight with how many bookings I have, I earn a living doing what I enjoy doing, and it is more than enough to account for my cost of living and with a few desires on top. I guess that's why I don't chase down everyone who looks elsewhere. If business is bad then I would of course think differently but since it's not really, then why worry?

A bird in the hand, and all that.

[funkymook]

Exact percentage, I couldn't tell you. Maybe a quarter to a third. As for feedback, it is usually offered when I get a response from enquirers. If not, I do ask and the responses I get are as previously stated.

I feel very uncomfortable doing discounts. I had a friend drop his prices one year as his previous year was not as fruitful as he was used to. A bride from a previous wedding got wind of this and went absolutely ballistic at him over it (and rightfully so, to be fair). It is unfair on other clients to discount for someone else.

I have been booked/are booked for 64 gigs in 2014 (fingers crossed for more). If I dropped a quote by the lowest price difference I have been compared to - in this case £30 - then by rights I should drop them all to keep things fair. That's nearly £2,000. And what if I added the 40-odd bookings I already have in 2015?

Maybe my outlook is naive, but I consider myself to be very happy with my current position. Whilst I am not setting the world alight with how many bookings I have, I earn a living doing what I enjoy doing, and it is more than enough to account for my cost of living and with a few desires on top. I guess that's why I don't chase down everyone who looks elsewhere. If business is bad then I would of course think differently but since it's not really, then why worry?

A bird in the hand, and all that.

Well of course if you're fully booked then there's no need to discount, demand outstripping supply dictates that. I aim to have around 40-50 bookings a year maximum, mainly weddings ( I don't do 18th's, 21st's or Christmas parties). I was up in the 70's a few years back but totally exhausted myself and ended up in hospital so something had to give. So it's less bookings and less travel for me these days.

[Pe7e]

I thought the thread was about why increasing numbers of people were going down the 'dry hire' route, and not another pricing thread, comparing price sensitivity between full service DJs is nothing to do with comparing prices between DJs and the cost of dry hire

[funkymook]

I thought the thread was about why increasing numbers of people were going down the 'dry hire' route, and not another pricing thread, comparing price sensitivity between full service DJs is nothing to do with comparing prices between DJs and the cost of dry hire

Most threads will meander a bit, just like most conversations will (not that the topic was set in stone in the OP anyway!).

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

One last try - what do people think the main objections to booking a DJ are from these people?

.

Clearly in this case it's previous experience with :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored:, unprofessional DJs.

I'm not :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored:, nor unprofessional. I'll engage with folk and try to demonstrate my worth to them but at the end of the day, some folk have made their mind up before you even get to that stage.