Advice please - Paypal sucks.

[Ryu]

So.....

Booking this coming Friday, customer paid deposit, has balance remaining which I contact her about today, She informs me she made payment via paypal.

I check my paypal and note that no payment has been received.

She confirms payment has left her bank account.

So I trace her steps she would have made, and realise that, since she booked me ages ago, she used an old email address to make the payment. Once not associated with my paypal, so there is a balance payment currently sitting in Paypals holding account

I check out Paypal, they advise for buyer to cancel payment and resubmit to me, correctly.

I contact customer to say the same.

Assuming that Im not the victim of a con (I like to see the best in folks, generally)

If the customer waits until she gets her refund from Paypal, before paying me (which she's entitled to do) I could be looking at 30 days for that refund to happen.

So....what would you do. Demand she make payment regardless, despite her being out of pocket to double the cost of the booking until the PP gets refunded? Or bite my tongue, and just wait for payment after the booking....weeks after...risky, of course.

Your thoughts please

[musicology]

I'm afraid it's not the customer's fault so you're going to have to wait.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I've had people send it to the wrong email address which I do own but never use in communication or on any customer facing material and just had to sign up to paypal and send the money over to a paypal account that is linked to my bank account.

If she has used some older details then I'm afraid she hasn't done anything "wrong". If it was me I'd ask her if it's ok to cancel and resend but failing that will just have to grin and bear with it.

[yourdj]

Just do bank transfers they are free. I used to paypal until i added up the amount per year i was paying!!
As per Paypal I don't think anyone has done anything wrong assuming the money has left her account and she has actually paid.

Either way I would just rub it out as your error. I often have people last min who i forgot to remind.
Forgot one last year for an £800 balance. i decided to ignore it but he contacted me a month after for payment.

[Ryu]

Thanks folks, kinda the conclusion I'd reached. Frustratingly, I'd attempted to remove any links to PayPal (as I agree Toby, not worth the 'convenience') within DJIntelligence but they still found the portal containing the old email add.

Since then, I've had a development which makes me question things... She agreed to cancel and get a refund and has contacted me to say she now has the money back and is able to bank transfer. A refund... From PayPal... On a Sunday... In the space of a few hours?... Hmmmm:confused:

[yourdj]

A refund... From PayPal... On a Sunday... In the space of a few hours?... Hmmmm:confused:

They work 24 hours I thought? Especially on a Sunday as its owned by Ebay, which is its busiest payment time. :)

[Ryu]

They work 24 hours I thought? Especially on a Sunday as its owned by Ebay, which is its busiest payment time. :)

Maybe I'm being overly suspicious.... In any case, I shall be a whole lot smilier once I can see the transfer all finalised...

[Excalibur]

Just do bank transfers they are free. I used to paypal until i added up the amount per year i was paying!!


I've never accepted PayPal. Hasn't stopped a couple of customers paying that way though! :muppet:s

[Retrodisco]

Add the email address to your paypal account and the funds should appear.

[Imagine]

PayPal IS expensive, but it's well known and most people have PayPal accounts.
I've found that a lot of people still don't like paying by bank transfer for whatever reason. Even then with a business bank account, it costs anyway :(

However, last weekend's gig has highlighted a little loophole in the PayPal system to me.....she used my email address instead of going through DJEP, and chose to pay me as a friend rather than a business (didn't realise you could even do that).....net result is there's no PayPal transaction fees.

Don't know how many times I can get away with that one since PayPal know it's a business account, but nice to get the full amount for once ;)

As for doing the refund on a Sunday, yes they work 24/7/365. You'll also find that a lot of what they do is automated so human intervention probably never even came into it.

[DJColsie]

I have never accepted PayPal either. Bank transfer, cheque or cash for me.

I am thinking of getting a machine to accept cards, face to face or over the phone. Bulking at the 2.75% fee for each transaction though.

[ukpartydj]

I like PayPal personally.
If you've set up a payment form / button on your website then there won't be mistakes with email address.

To avoid lots of fees I say deposit via PayPal is free but please add 3% if paying your balance this way (it's 3.5% +20p I think) anyway 9/10 they change there minds and pay bank transfer or cash.
I think it's worth the fees as everybody trusts PayPal and it's very easy, I always pay that way if I can with other items.

[DJ Jules]

To avoid lots of fees I say deposit via PayPal is free but please add 3% if paying your balance this way (it's 3.5% +20p I think) anyway 9/10 they change there minds and pay bank transfer or cash.

As has been pointed out recently on another website, adding PayPal fees on top of the amount chargeable is against PayPal's terms and conditions (as you've pointed out - it's puts people off from using this method), so you do have to be careful with how you describe what you're charging the customer for if you do this.

I accept paypal, but I always give people the options to pay by BAC's or Cheque in advance or Cash or Cheque on the night (and I am revisiting this policy). I've only had a couple of people opt for PayPal so far all the others have used cheque or bank transfer.

Something called ZAPP is coming soon (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25743151) which could change all this - it's basically a quick and easy way of initiating bank transfers using mobile banking apps without either party having to expose their bank account details and it's built on top of the whole BAC's system. It also carries much lower fees than PayPal. Scheduled for launch to the general web early 2015...

Julian

[Andy P]

I use paypal as its an easy way to get in deposits and lets me take card payments. Yes some gets gobbled up but ill live

[DeckstarDeluxe]

As has been pointed out recently on another website, adding PayPal fees on top of the amount chargeable is against PayPal's terms and conditions (as you've pointed out - it's puts people off from using this method), so you do have to be careful with how you describe what you're charging the customer for if you do this.

Julian

I think a way around this is to increase your prices and then do a discount for payments via BACS etc...

[Imagine]

I think a way around this is to increase your prices and then do a discount for payments via BACS etc...

I wouldn't even consider such a practice :whistle:

[DJ Jules]

I wouldn't even consider such a practice :whistle:

..and of course neither would Telco's, cable companies or energy providers.... Not with Paypal of course, but you get the idea.

:D

[ukpartydj]

As has been pointed out recently on another website, adding PayPal fees on top of the amount chargeable is against PayPal's terms and conditions (as you've pointed out - it's puts people off from using this method), so you do have to be careful with how you describe what you're charging the customer for if you do this.


I'm aware of this, I think we may be taking this too seriously though as I've seen large companies clearly stating a surcharge for using PayPal (Parcel2Go).
To be safe I only mention this in emails and private conversations, but lets be honest they're hardly going to be chasing the little men like us on such a silly thing - why is it their decision how we charge our customers? I personally think they were foolish to even insert such a ludicrous condition!

[Creature]

Right - if person who transfers money actually has it in her paypal account - cancellation usually occurs withing 24 hours.

If she has a zero balance and funds is transfered to there paypal via card or bank account, this can take upto 30 working days!

Hope it makes it clearer

As for Paypal fees - apart from cash/cheques there are always fees to pay - just with casn n cheques you got petrol/parking costs to put in bank :) :)

[Imagine]

I'm aware of this, I think we may be taking this too seriously though as I've seen large companies clearly stating a surcharge for using PayPal (Parcel2Go).
!

Yup - I got stung an extra £3 last night using the Travelodge booking system. The big boys are all at it!
Law of sod though says it'd be me that got caught if I put a surcharge on which specifically said it was paying by PayPal, so ALL quotes that go out of the door assume that's how the client's going to pay.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I personally think they were foolish to even insert such a ludicrous condition!

Actually I've used Paypal for the last 4 years for taking credit and debit card payments and due to the fairly low volume were by far the cheapest method of doing so.

[DazzyD]

I have seen that it's in PayPal's user agreement that you agree not to make a "surcharge" for customers paying you by PayPal. However, you are allowed to charge a "handling" or "processing" fee so long as the fee isn't more than you'd charge customers paying by PayPal.

I think you can either uprate all your fees to take in to account the few that might want to use their PayPal account to pay you or, as has been mentioned already, consider uprating all your fees then offer a discount to customers who choose to pay by the free methods.

The one thing you should never do is hide your charges as, once you are discovered, this will make you look really bad. Always be completely transparent with your pricing. People don't like hidden charges. On the other hand, they do like a discount!! ;)

[Excalibur]

People don't like hidden charges.
Absolutely correct. Often it can change bargains into no more than everyday deals.



On the other hand, they do like a discount!! ;)

Oh yes. :D When I first went self-employed, I had a customer who wanted a large discount for cash each time. At that time, I was just starting out, and cash price was the same as a cheque. I had to follow the time honoured practice of inflating the price beforehand, so that I could give him his " large cash discount ". :D:D

[Ryu]

Minor update. All paid :D