The new generation of digital controllers

[Benny Smyth]

So Numark kicked it all off with the Numark NV (http://www.djkit.com/numark/numark-nv.html?gclid=CPqL9revi8ECFYzHtAodE1IAeA) and those who went to BPM no doubt saw it and may have even had a dabble on it.

Native Instruments have been working on something similar for a while in what was the worst kept secret in the industry and have recently announced the Traktor Kontrol S8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_RYBOerQgo) (which wasn't at BPM...disappointingly!).

It's hard to not think that all high-end controllers over the next couple of years will have these screens. Having played on the Numark at BPM, there was one thing that really bummed me. The first thing I did was touch the screen...and it wasn't touch screen. In this day and age, everything is touch screen and to see a screen that is about the same size as my Samsung S4 smartphone...it was odd to not have that feature. No doubt that others will have touchscreen in the future, but it seems to have been a missed step at this point.

Besides the non-touchscreen, there are two things that are putting me off jumping on the bandwagon (for now, at least). Firstly, is looking at your laptop that much of a problem? I know that some DJ's don't like the laptop being there as it is seen as another barrier between you and your crowd, but I see it as a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

The other thing - and this is a big thing - you still need the laptop! It's where your music will play from and on top of that, if you have many folders with many songs, you will eventually need a search function (which the controllers themselves don't offer). Granted, the Club DJ will only have three or four folders (and this will be the primary market for these controllers), so navigation is easy enough but for mobile folk who like using this sort of kit (I have the Kontrol S4 Mk II, for example), it's not there yet.

This is a very good starting off point and I can see a lot of people buying them, but for me, it's not quite there yet. There needs to be a touchscreen function, an internal hard drive to store music and a way to perform a search within the controller so that the laptop can stay in the bag.

The new generation is here, folks. What are your thoughts, and what would you like to see?

[Corabar Steve]

Which is a lot of why I've stuck with my HD2500s

[ianforest]

Well let's be honest, this new breed of controllers is just the pre-cursor to seeing fully integrated controllers with their own OS and USB storage controller....but even then...you will still need a computer at some stage in the process to put the tracks on the HDD/memory stick or whatever.

If I remember with the HD2500, the D2 and even with the SCS.4DJ you still needed to build the library on a PC...it was a far quicker method than using the controller to do it. I remember sub-20k tracks on the HD2500 was painful watching the library update.

Another couple of years and there will be fully integrated devices...can't wait.

[Shaun]

What are your thoughts, and what would you like to see?

A controller that suits my needs that doesn't require a laptop. Until then...I'll stick with my HD2500's.

[Excalibur]

A controller that suits my needs that doesn't require a laptop. Until then...I'll stick with my HD2500's.

Hey Shaun, watch out for the low flying :fp:

[mattydj50]

A controller that suits my needs that doesn't require a laptop. Until then...I'll stick with my HD2500's.


A bit like a Cortex.

[Shaun]

A bit like a Cortex.

I had a cortex that I used for backup. It wasn't for me though, I ended up selling it. I played about with the Pioneer MEP too, but preferred the Denon.

I'm reluctant to go the midi route. I love the simplicity (with just enough added features) that the Denon has. There's been rumour for years regarding a predecessor to the hd2500, but nothing's materialised yet, midi controllers seem to have taken over. Still, I'm holding out hope that a standalone controller will hit the market sometime in the next few years. Fingers crossed.

[Creature]

I had a cortex that I used for backup. It wasn't for me though, I ended up selling it. I played about with the Pioneer MEP too, but preferred the Denon.

I'm reluctant to go the midi route. I love the simplicity (with just enough added features) that the Denon has. There's been rumour for years regarding a predecessor to the hd2500, but nothing's materialised yet, midi controllers seem to have taken over. Still, I'm holding out hope that a standalone controller will hit the market sometime in the next few years. Fingers crossed.

love my cortex :) got 8 of them sat here nnow plus a few for spares :)

Took me ages to finally comit to changing to it - but still use cds at times :)

[DJ Jules]

I just wish Numark would make something which doesn't look and feel so plastic. Some of their units are serious bits of kits, but I've just watched the video of the NV and it looks like a toy under the demonstrators hands with weeny little jog wheels.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I'm another member of the HD2500 fan club. It's so easy to use and (almost) indestructable. I couldn't believe my luck when I picked up an absolutely mint, used once HD2500 for £250.00 a couple of months ago. I was stuck because my original one started playing up. I've still got it and have yet to get it looked at.
I have VDJ8 on a laptop as back up with a HD4500 and it works perfectly for me. I don't really have any intentions of changing my playout set up for quite a while yet.
I didn't go to BPM (I've been once in 10 years) so I don't really have any idea what the new technology is. All I do know is that I am happy with what I have. It works for me and that's what matters.

[Excalibur]

. I love the simplicity (with just enough added features) that the Denon has. There's been rumour for years regarding a predecessor to the hd2500, but nothing's materialised yet, .

But we were told it was imminent. :confused:






A couple of years ago, wasn't it? :whistle:








Shaun, since you won't take my advice to join us Laptop Larries, perhaps you'll take this advice:







Don't hold your breath. :D:D Mind you, if the play buttons hadn't begun to be unreliable, I'd still be like Shaun, but with a brace of Cortex, not Denons.

[ukpartydj]

Aren't they just like pioneer CDJ2000's with a mixer all in one?

I left them behind because I couldn't "search" for music... how do you get on when you don't know where the track you want is stored? I've never used one of these systems before and I don't see how it's better than a laptop personally.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I've never used one of these systems before and I don't see how it's better than a laptop personally.

What a strange thing to say...

If you've never used one, how can you even have an opinion? :daft:

[ukpartydj]

What a strange thing to say...

If you've never used one, how can you even have an opinion? :daft:

I have many opinions on items I've never used before :)

[Creature]

Aren't they just like pioneer CDJ2000's with a mixer all in one?

I left them behind because I couldn't "search" for music... how do you get on when you don't know where the track you want is stored? I've never used one of these systems before and I don't see how it's better than a laptop personally.

dunno about the above unit but the cortex and i believe the denon u plugged in a keyboard and typed in ect:- artist,song title if ya after a specific track

or if you want genre just type in -

results instantly

sadly these new units dont seem to be able to do that :(

touch screen might be the way to go but wewill have to wait n see

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

I have many opinions on items I've never used before :)

Makes your opinion very valid then...:rolleyes:

[Retrodisco]

Traktor DJ on iPad is a viable alternative, especially if you have a larger storage capacity model. Sound quality is better than most laptop internal cards I find. Certainly useable.

[atlanticdisco]

Any thoughts on the new Pioneer XDJ1000?

Business partner fancies getting them but I'm not so sure. Seems a lot for what you basically get in the ddj sx2 and ddjsz.

[Benny Smyth]

Any thoughts on the new Pioneer XDJ1000?

Business partner fancies getting them but I'm not so sure. Seems a lot for what you basically get in the ddj sx2 and ddjsz.

I've only seen the promo video and the thing that made me chuckle was the illuminating USB port. If you watched, say, Digital DJ Tips do a review and they mention "It has an illuminating USB port...that's a nice feature" then that's cool, but to have it as a selling point on your promo video makes me think that Pioneer have struggled to come up with new features for their new controller.

I think the S8 is a very interesting controller. Not something I would buy, but I think it's the first mainstream controller that will change the way we play electronic music as DJs. The remix decks are built into the system, no jog wheels (which is a staple for such controllers and the omission can be a bit off putting if you're so used to Vinyl, CDjs and the majority of controllers out there), and you can plug all your analogue gear into it. Along with the screens, this is a very brake leap from NI to say that they are changing the way we DJ and about time that we moved away from the blueprint that Pioneer spawned.

[atlanticdisco]

S8 is interesting but I can't get my head round the fact that there is no jog wheels!

Maybe a step to far for me.

[ianforest]

No jog wheels is not a new thing...remember the Novation Twitch controller? That was sans-jog's too and had a nice touch strip... I had one for a while and you know, whilst it was actually quite good for nudging the tempo during riding mixes...when I came to fine-tuning cue points it was an utter finger pain. Not played with the S8 yet so can't see what it's like.

As for the Numark NV....I saw one for the first time over the weekend...shockingly bad quality. Typical manufacturer error...add a really useful feature such as the screens but then scrimp on quality and sell it dirt cheap. Pioneer nailed it with the DDJ-SZ...fill it with features that people wanted over the SX, make it feel like quality and sell it at a premium price, and people STILL bought it. Wait until the next one comes out with it's own screens...once the XDJ-1000 has proven itself :)

As for the XDJ-1000, I think this is genius on Pioneer's part...make it look like a CDJ 2000 nxs but without the CD drive and connect it to rekordbox...quality, and not a bad price either. Sure enough, two of those with a DJM 900 NXS mixer is still going to cost a bit but it will still look the part, even with it's flashy USB socket :)

[atlanticdisco]

Pioneer nailed it with the DDJ-SZ...fill it with features that people wanted over the SX, make it feel like quality and sell it at a premium price, and people STILL bought it. Wait until the next one comes out with it's own screens...once the XDJ-1000 has proven itself :)

I really do fancy buying the DDJ SZ. It really does tick almost all the boxes, bar one! The weight of the unit when boxed i hear is pretty excessive. Have yet to get a figure on it.

I was looking to buy at the start of the year then sell of my own gig rig consisting of Pioneer DJM5000 / MEP7000 / housed in a SKB box with folding laptop tray. Again, this is an ideal setup but the weight is a pain. This is a typical CATCH 22!!!!!!

[Benny Smyth]

So the Traktor S8 not has a new baby brother in the Traktor S5 (http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/traktor/dj-controllers/traktor-kontrol-s5/pricing/).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDDzIrSs-hE

It's a shrunk down version of the flagship S8, and is more affordable so may be of an interest to the mobile DJ market who like to get very creative with their sets (as well as the core club/bedroom DJ market, of course).

Still one thing about it though - still NOT a standalone controller! :mad:

[Nakatomi]

So the Traktor S8 not has a new baby brother in the Traktor S5 (http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/traktor/dj-controllers/traktor-kontrol-s5/pricing/).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDDzIrSs-hE

It's a shrunk down version of the flagship S8, and is more affordable so may be of an interest to the mobile DJ market who like to get very creative with their sets (as well as the core club/bedroom DJ market, of course).

Still one thing about it though - still NOT a standalone controller! :mad:

I just don't see the point in having screens on the controller if it isn't completely standalone. And - well over £500 to buy and it doesn't even have a built-in power supply. Sorry guys, but IMHO 'Pro' gear doesn't have an external PSU. Okay yes, the most likely part to fail is the power supply - meaning that if it's external you can just swap it over to a spare but external PSUs are a faff.

I'm half tempted to try the 'remix' type of controller one of these days - I get about as creative as it's possible to be with my MC2000 (I've done some of my own mappings to replace the defaults I tend not to use) but the gigs where I get to have a play like that are few & far between. Is 'Dancing Queen' going to be re-released in stems format? :lol:

[ukpartydj]

I've been looking at new controllers for ages, if they brought out a new MC6000 style controller (size wise) which these changes I'd be interested:

- Pioneer style buttons not rubber rubbish
- 15 LED level Meter on each line and master.
- decent sound quality.
- 8 hot cue pads (4 more).
- Traktor optimized.

What annoys me is that If I mashed a pioneer controller and a denon one together I'd have what I wanted!

[yourdj]

I just don't see the point in having screens on the controller if it isn't completely standalone. And - well over £500 to buy and it doesn't even have a built-in power supply. Sorry guys, but IMHO 'Pro' gear doesn't have an external PSU. Okay yes, the most likely part to fail is the power supply - meaning that if it's external you can just swap it over to a spare but external PSUs are a faff.

I'm half tempted to try the 'remix' type of controller one of these days - I get about as creative as it's possible to be with my MC2000 (I've done some of my own mappings to replace the defaults I tend not to use) but the gigs where I get to have a play like that are few & far between. Is 'Dancing Queen' going to be re-released in stems format? :lol:

The one reason I have not changed from my Vestax VCI is that it is USB powered and so much easier, especially with no power source applications. :)

[ukpartydj]

The one reason I have not changed from my Vestax VCI is that it is USB powered and so much easier, especially with no power source applications. :)

Hmmmm... does it have a mic input?

[Excalibur]

I tried to go down this route by getting a Numark HDMIX, which has an internal HD. CD capability, and standalone capability.

Sadly, it wasn't the answer for me.

[yourdj]

Hmmmm... does it have a mic input?

yes although i use a small mixer. latency is ok in the mk 2, but never used it.
Much better in a technical, failure to have a separate mic straight into the pa, especially with noise limiters.

[Benny Smyth]

I'll be sticking with my Traktor S4 MkII. Great controller, and gives me the flexibility to be creative.

[Shaun]

Just wish they would hurry up and release a stand alone controller.

[Sapphire Disco]

I just don't like modern controllers I don't like built in mixers and small knobs in awkward positions to twiddle to find tunes hate it !

[Benny Smyth]

So that whole 'no jog wheel' thing for the S8 (and, subsequently, S5)?

Looks like NI have doggy-paddled back to safe jog wheel land with the announcement of it's updated line of S4/S2 Kontrollers (https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/traktor/dj-controllers/traktor-kontrol-s4/).

Looking forward to the reviews on this one. May be tempted for an upgrade. ;)

[Shaun]

Just wish they would hurry up and release a stand alone controller.


In the end I ended up going down the CDJ Nexus route. Briliant kit but just too big and bulky for my needs. I sold those and bought the Pioneer XDJ-RX2. I've used it a few times recently and it's great, but still, for the majority of my mobile work I prefer my Denon HD2500's. They're over 12 years old and I can't find a solution that comes anywhere close to them for the way I work and the size of setup I prefer.

[Excalibur]

but still, for the majority of my mobile work I prefer my Denon HD2500's. They're over 12 years old

Tsk, tsk! And people say I'm rooted in the past! :p:D Come on son, come over to the dark side. Even Corabar Steve has done so. :eek:

[rth_discos]

A controller that suits my needs that doesn't require a laptop. Until then...I'll stick with my HD2500's.


Hey Shaun, watch out for the low flying :fp:

Looks like those pigs did arrive!!

[Shaun]

Come on son, come over to the dark side. Even Corabar Steve has done so. :eek:

laptop based...NEVER!

[Excalibur]

laptop based...NEVER!

Never say never, Shaun. :Naughty: :)

I will however admit to some common ground with my Scottish friend. When I have the full size booth out, my backup is a Numark DDS. :o

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I'm with Shaun!
I still use the Denon HD2500. I have 2 of them (although one does need looking at). They do exactly what I want them to do with no mucking about.

I don't feel the need to change (or go over to the dark side), as yet.

[Excalibur]

I'm with Shaun!


I don't feel the need to change (or go over to the dark side), as yet.

Blimey lads, I'm surrounded by Luddites! :D


( Mind you, I know where Gary and Shaun are coming from. If the Cortex play buttons were indestructible, and I didn't need to offer Karaoke, I'd probably still be using them ) Laptop and controller does beat the old Hard Drive Controllers by a mile though, so it's undoubtedly a step forward.

[ppentertainments]

( Mind you, I know where Gary and Shaun are coming from. If the Cortex play buttons were indestructible, and I didn't need to offer Karaoke, I'd probably still be using them )
I took mine out to play the other day, and have to say it is really cumbersome compared to laptop/controller setup however using the Denon x500 mixer was a real eyeopener - or ear opener. It really does sound far superior to any controller I have used.

Biggest downside is size and weight.

Still amazed nobody has made a simple, compact, lightweight, easy to navigate all on one system. Some of the pioneer stuff is getting close, but not keen on only 2 channels (yeah I know I only need 2) and also although I like Rekordbox I hate having to rely on the management of it - I just want to plug a hard drive in and it will work.

[ukpartydj]

So that whole 'no jog wheel' thing for the S8 (and, subsequently, S5)?

Looks like NI have doggy-paddled back to safe jog wheel land with the announcement of it's updated line of S4/S2 Kontrollers (https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/traktor/dj-controllers/traktor-kontrol-s4/).

Looking forward to the reviews on this one. May be tempted for an upgrade. ;)

I get the feeling they are still going with no jog wheels but aren't quite ready to lose the customer base that wants jog wheels.

I'm an S5 user and haven't missed jog wheels one bit. To be honest, they're pretty massive waste of space, touch strip works just as well unless you're scratching.

Denon did the whole motorised decks years ago and I thought it quite odd back then.

The future is touch strips!

[Shakermaker Promotions]

Ha! Ha! (at Peter), I'm not stuck in the past (although I preferred it back there if I'm honest).....I just know which I prefer. Ok, I haven't indulged for many hours on the controllers....and I have an X500 mixer with it....and yes, it is bloody heavy.....and yes, I know that maybe, just maybe I should move forward........BUT, as I am not out multiple times a week as I was previously, I think I'll be ok for the time being.

[Shaun]

.....and yes, I know that maybe, just maybe I should move forward......, I think I'll be ok for the time being.

I've tried moving forward, bought some lovely kit, which for the most part is sitting gathering dust. Like yourself I still really rate the HD2500. Nothing has come close to it for my needs. Not yet anyway. Hopefully one day.

[Nakatomi]

I took mine out to play the other day, and have to say it is really cumbersome compared to laptop/controller setup however using the Denon x500 mixer was a real eyeopener - or ear opener. It really does sound far superior to any controller I have used.

Biggest downside is size and weight.

Still amazed nobody has made a simple, compact, lightweight, easy to navigate all on one system. Some of the pioneer stuff is getting close, but not keen on only 2 channels (yeah I know I only need 2) and also although I like Rekordbox I hate having to rely on the management of it - I just want to plug a hard drive in and it will work.

What were you plugging into the Denon mixer though? Whatever difference you're hearing is down to the USB or other sound hardware you're comparing. The MC6000 mk1 I use sounds pretty good - not the best in the world I know but I don't want to be lumbered with a separate controller, soundcard & mixer.

[ppentertainments]

What were you plugging into the Denon mixer though? Whatever difference you're hearing is down to the USB or other sound hardware you're comparing. The MC6000 mk1 I use sounds pretty good - not the best in the world I know but I don't want to be lumbered with a separate controller, soundcard & mixer.
I used an external soundcard.

The test between the 2 was made by running side by side - mc6000 and mixer with external soundcard. To negate the fact it may be a good external soundcard I done the same with both simply plugged into the laptop headphone socket.

A simple answer was delivered - look at the size of the mixer (and weight) and what it does. Look at the size (and weight) of the controller and consider everything it does. Made sense to me.

[Nakatomi]

I used an external soundcard.

The test between the 2 was made by running side by side - mc6000 and mixer with external soundcard. To negate the fact it may be a good external soundcard I done the same with both simply plugged into the laptop headphone socket.

A simple answer was delivered - look at the size of the mixer (and weight) and what it does. Look at the size (and weight) of the controller and consider everything it does. Made sense to me.

Interesting! Odd there's such a difference because their internal hardware is remarkably similar. As I said I'll happily trade convenience, size & weight over sound if it's perfectly acceptable quality. I was pondering upgrading to an MCX-7000 later in the year but was told to expect a drop in sound quality. WTH...

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I've tried moving forward, bought some lovely kit, which for the most part is sitting gathering dust. Like yourself I still really rate the HD2500. Nothing has come close to it for my needs. Not yet anyway. Hopefully one day.

With reference to buying kit - I invested in a few bits and bobs following a bit of dosh that came my way.....and then, things happened and I decided that I would be having a good old break. You could call it a case of both good timing, and bad timing.
The good timing was that I literally bought the equipment, and then the 'episode' happened. Luckily, I was able to return a lot of the stuff. I won't name names as I bought the kit from 3 different suppliers. All of the kit was well within the 30 days return policy, and 2 suppliers were very good and understanding. 1 however, wasn't and wouldn't have anything back. Again, luckily I was able to sell it on at a very minimal loss.
The bad timing was that I'd decided to go for it and start promoting myself up here. I'll be honest, I'd kept putting it off and I was in the early stages, and then 'it' happened and knocked me back.

As it stands now, I now have what I was using 2 years ago and you know what, I am happy with that. It doesn't bother me at all (as long as it is all working properly). I guess another DJ on his night off would no doubt come over to me whilst I am in full flow and mutter the words "Are you still using that!!?!???".... just like many others did when DJ's moved from CD to digital.

[DJ Jules]

Interesting! Odd there's such a difference because their internal hardware is remarkably similar. As I said I'll happily trade convenience, size & weight over sound if it's perfectly acceptable quality. I was pondering upgrading to an MCX-7000 later in the year but was told to expect a drop in sound quality. WTH...

I've always been surprised by just how good the X500 sounds. It's bizarre, because in theory at least, mixers really just take what's put into them and push it out again, but there is a really noticeable difference between the sound between the likes of the Denon X500 and A&H kit, other reasonably reputable brands (thinking Mackie, *cough* Behringer, etc) and a straight controller output.

Julian

[ppentertainments]

As I said I'll happily trade convenience, size & weight over sound if it's perfectly acceptable quality. I was pondering upgrading to an MCX-7000 later in the year but was told to expect a drop in sound quality. WTH...
Yep, convenience etc is a high priority for me and in reality people won't notice the difference in quality unless a side by side test was done.

MCX-7000 is a great bit of kit, but size was the drawback for me, same as the Pioneer controllers - I love them and think again the sound quality is better than the MC6000 but they are all huge and flightcased won't even fit my micro booth.

I still think as a 'go to' playout the MC6000 ticks all the boxes for mobile use.