Getting started as a Mobile DJ - Lots of Questions!

[Casual77]

Following advice I've received on both the technical lighting and sound system forums I've decided that I am going to give at a go as a part-time professional mobile DJ and that has thrown up a whole heap of questions I could do with some answers to. I don't expect anyone will want to attempt answering them all but if there are any questions among them that you feel able to give your thoughts on it would be greatly appreciated.

Ok... So here goes

Music and Licencing

I've done a bit of research into the Pro-Dub licence and I'm not sure I will do enough gigs to justify the £250 cost. Most of my CD collection wouldn't be appropriate for wedding and general birthday party discos so I will be pretty much starting from scratch. My plan at the moment is to subscribe to Virtual DJ and the Content Unlimited service and then download as much content as I can. I will then get a mobile broadband dongle so that I can download more songs on the night (when possible). Would this be a reasonable way of starting up?

In addition to using a midi controller I will buy a second-hand CDJ and use this to play original CDs as a back up. I'll then buy an assortment of 60's, 70', 80's, Rock Hits compilations etc which I gather I can legally play without needing the Pro-Dub licence.

If I legally by-pass the need for a Pro-Dub Licence will this limit the venues I could work at or would they generally accept that I don't have one because I don't need one?

I understand I can't us anything I've bought from iTunes, Beatport, Amazon, Juno on paid gigs without the Pro-Dub licence but would I be ok to use these for private parties in venues with a PPL licence as long as I'm not being paid and they aren't open to the general public? Are there any online music websites which I can buy from that are licenced for commercial use?

DJ Hardware

I've got a Numark NS7ii which I could use but this is principally used with Serato. Does anyone know if this will work ok with Virtual DJ?

In order to use the NS7ii I would need to buy a suitable flight case which would cost about £160. Given that the Ns7ii is quite large and heavy would I be better to use that money to buy a smaller, lighter second hand controller?

Assuming I go down the route of a different controller can anyone recommend one with a built in sound card that would work well with Virtual DJ and would allow me to input a CDJ? (Preferably one that I could pick up second hand for less than £200)

I'm planning to use a MacBook Pro and buy an external hard drive for downloading the music from Content Unlimited onto. Will any hard drive do or is there something specific I should look out for? Would I be better to just leave all the music on the MacBook hard drive instead?

Can I use the Virtual DJ licence on multiple computers as long as I only activate it on one computer at a time?

Marketing

Is there a not too costly way of advertising my services to get up and running?

I was going to visit some local private hire venues and drop in some business cards, set up a basic website and a Facebook page. Is there anything else I could consider to generate 2-3 gigs per month?

Pricing

What is the best way to price for gigs? Should I have the same pricing policy for all gigs or charge more for weddings?

Is it better to have a clear pricing plan that people can read on my website, or should I give prices out on request only?

Is it better to price on an hourly rate basis or perhaps a standing charge plus a rate per hour?

What would a reasonable rate per hour be? (Bearing in mind most if not all my gigs will be in Barnsley where finances are pretty tight at the moment)

What is the best way to take payment? Would payment before the gig by cash, paypal or bank transfer be acceptable?

Professional Indemnity and Gear Insurance

Can anyone recommend a good insurer or broker? Am I better getting this cover through membership of a mobile DJ organisation?

I'm planning to set up as a limited company. Is that likely to have any bearing on the cost of the insurance cover?


I think that's about it for now but I'm sure there will be more questions that come up when I start making definite plans.

[Excalibur]

Well let's see what we can do.
Music/Licence.
As far as I can see, VDJ with the content unlimited and CD backup is a viable solution. Whether any venue will refuse you entry because you don't have Produb, I'd say that's unlikely. Your biggest problem in this case would be proving you were operating within the rules without one. I hope someone will come up with a solution to that one.

Private parties would not impose restrictions on where you play the music from. Free or paid for, if you operate in any public place, ( even if it's a private room in a venue) I'd strongly recommend you to obtain PLI, which can be as cheap as £30 upwards. There are many choices.
Also, get you kit PAT tested. Neither this nor PLI are legal requirements, but nowadays, they're essential in this claim obsessed society. I'll give you Davesounds details, he's in your area, and a top bloke.

Hardware
I know nothing about Serato and NS7s, so can't help there, but it is possible to get " all-in-one " controllers, which would mean no need for a CDJ. First example I found. (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Numark-Mixdeck-Universal-DJ-System-with-aluminium-flight-travel-case-/221696769940?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item339e283f94) I think there are others, but probably dearer.

If you must have a CDJ, and separate controller, well this is my weapon of choice. (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/American-Audio-VMS-4-1-4-Chanel-Midi-Controller-with-Virtual-DJ-LE-ADJ-/171689618189?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27f97fab0d) Full mixer capabilities, two mic channels, I can't fault it. Make sure you get a 4.1, as the 4 had quite a few issues, which the 4.1 solved.
Its little sister the VMS2 is around £50 cheaper than the VMS4.1, comparing the first new prices I found, but it's much less well featured.

Marketing.
Not my strong point. Sorry.

Pricing/payment.
Piece of string. No cast iron answer. Do whatever feels right. I'll leave that to others for now. Allied to that, contracts are a must, setting out payment terms. Taking a deposit is always a good idea, for various reasons, many of which I won't go into now.

Indemnity and gear insurance.
I touched on PLI above, and it is possible to get gear insurance as well from some providers. Again, many sources for this, compare them as much as possible.

That'll do to be going on with. Cuppa time.

[Andy P]

Music and Licenses
Agree with Excalibur here - after helping a mate set up there are loads of content services available that allow you a 30 day HOLD of music on your drive in case you cant get on line - then just get a phone with a decent data package on 4G. Ten take some time to build up a collection from cheap sources which are all over this forum.

Gear
I'll pass here as I use quite different stuff to the norm

Marketing
I'm very handy with this and have a son studying at Uni so think I've done quite good here. Start with on line free ads, google business, yell etc. Then social media pages and especially wedding groups, get a good pro website up and get it up the rankings. Then look at the offline methods, ads in local paper, flyers in local shops, but most of all badger your mates as word of mouth is great.

Sort out a theme and stick with it - branding is important even for little businesses.

Pricing
If you did your market research you should have your competitions prices. Are you offering a similar service if so pose yourself slightly cheaper without damaging the market or unfairly undercutting people. Make a strategy as one price does not fit all - a kids party through the day can be a bonus so do you need to be taking a full cut for the business out of this.

Insurance
Deffo PLI for the cost its nuts not too - As for gear its a mine field. Often the hike in premium and the excess makes it not worth while except for larger items and i've found the stuff that gets damaged is mics from karaoke use. Other than that the main damage is done by me loading and unloading rather than from use.

[DazzyD]

I'm out at the moment but there are a couple of points I'll make when I get home with regards to subscription services and insurance. My phone is only small and I can't type so well on it.

[Casual77]

Sorry for the delay in responding. I typed a lengthy reply earlier today but for some reason it hasn't posted.

I'm pretty much sold on the idea of the content unlimited subscription service (unless DazzyD has something to say that will deter me). It might take some time to download the 1000 or so tracks I need to get started but it seems like it will be so much cheaper than buying CDs from somewhere like CD Pool, ripping them to MP3 and forking out for a Pro Dub licence.

Hardware - I think I might go with the NS7ii initially because it will save me having to buy anything else but at some point I will go for something smaller and lighter. I've never paid much attention to Amercan Audio gear but will check out the VMS4.1 on Peter's recommendation. I'm quite fancying either a Vestax VCI-400 or a Denon MC6000 at the moment though.

Marketing - I think my thoughts on how to approach this are similar to Attack the Dance Floor's. I was thinking I might leave some cards with the local private hire venues (although I suspect many will have regular DJs they contact) and then hit Facebook and Twitter. I'll need to get a half decent website too and try to get it up the Google rankings too.

Pricing - this is still an issue. Not many local DJs advertise their prices and I don't want to ring them up deceitfully to find out what they charge. Ideally I don't want to be working for any less than about £25-30 per hour given the money it will cost me set up. A lot of the local competition boasts over 10 years of experience which I can't offer though. Do I need to be prepared to low-ball for a while until I get a good few gigs under my belt?

Insurance - I agree that PLI cover is a must especially when it's as cheap as £30 a year. I might get some quotes on cover for my gear and take a view on whether that is worth having. I would be interested in having the details of the local PAT tester Peter if you could send me a PM with his details.

[Pe7e]

Pricing - this is still an issue. #1 Not many local DJs advertise their prices and I don't want to ring them up deceitfully to find out what they charge. Ideally I don't want to be working for any less than about £25-30 per hour given the money it will cost me set up. A lot of the local competition boasts over 10 years of experience which I can't offer though. #2 Do I need to be prepared to low-ball for a while until I get a good few gigs under my belt?




#1 Why? Once you become visible to them, they will phone/contact you to see what you are charging, and even try to interfere with your business with fake bookings, bad mouthing etc. I kid you not, it happens.

#2 If you're good enough, there's no reason why you should undervalue yourself, but maybe it would be best not to price yourself out of the market before you've established yourself though. Personally if I'm purchasing a service from an unknown entity, I would be very unlikely to choose the cheapest, or for that matter the most expensive. Experience has taught me the guy with the most advance bookings is frequently the best. Incidentally, many of my dry hire clients are there as a result of previously being promised the earth and subsequently let down by young inexperienced wanabe DJs (their description, not mine).

[Andy P]

As part of my business plan I sent email requests from my personal account to many local DJ's to find out what they offered, how much they charged, what the deposit was, how they responded etc etc. Its market research and as mentioned it will happen to you at some point.

Sun Tze - the art of war "So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss."

[Shaun]

I've never contacted another DJ pretending to be a customer. It's something I frown upon. Apart from a few local DJs that have posted prices on Facebook I don't have a clue (or care) what others charge. If we were all the same and just 'McDiscos' then I could see the point (maybe). But we're all individuals and offering different levels of service, experience and have different running costs and expenses (which all have a bearing on the fee charged), so what the next man charges really has no bearing on our own business.

[Excalibur]

While I appreciate that some people may employ subterfuge to gain information from other DJs about pricing and the like, before you declare war on your neighbours, why not try " beer and sandwiches* " first?

* Google it. Basically, getting round a table socially, and working with each other, rather than against. Works for me, and for many others on here, I suspect.

Why does this forum work? Because we share information and advice, even kit and work. Granted, sometimes it's with people at the other end of the country, but it can be with the DJ ten miles down the road. I have gained more from the folks I've met on here than I will ever be able to give back. Although I'm not wearing my rose tinted spectacles, I regard folk as colleagues, not competitors.

[yourdj]

Music and Licencing

Buy new music in digital format and don't format change and you won't need that.

Marketing

Get a good website. Forget about magazines and yellow pages.
get someone to do it professionally but train the rights to edit yourself afterwards.
Just add real and interesting content with decent links.

No venue will want you without experience, so I suggest you get good to start with with parties and then attend some wedding fairs.
There are tons of ways to get work, but i have found a decent website & doing a good job gets me the work through WOM and networking.
Join google maps. I was off it for years, but am back on now and it makes a massive difference. takes time though.

flyers/brochures would do for now as they double up as business cards.
I rarely use my cards now as i have very good A5 flyers and brochures.
You can get 5,000 A6 for pennies now days.

Pricing

Price how you think you should price, which is:

you may have reasonable kit (at some point) but no experience in music selection or managing function formalities.
I have done about 800 weddings now and I learn all the time, so still a long way to go!

If you expecting to go out weekly then this should change in about 3 years, depending on your levels of progress.
So many club DJ's get a set of actives and suddenly think that they will blast away all the crappy mobile cheesy heads.
This is rarely the case, so well done for seeking help before that.

Around here the general wedding price for a decent DJ is £300-350, yet I charge from £500-600 for 4-5 hours. Then again some people charge £100 and others now £900 (not naming anyone LOL) for the evening and they are both getting bookings and probably earning the same wage at the end of the year. If I was to start again with no knowledge I would go in at £250 for the first 6 months and then go to £300. in the second year £350 and so on. Don't try and convert all the bookings as you will win some and loose some. doing one decent booking at £300 (with nice clients and venue) is surely better than doing 3 at £100 isn't it (rubbish venue and clients who only value your price).

I disagree with local DJ's being cut throat. I set up a local thing called the HDA and with over 60 members we are all great friends and willingly share advice and help each other online and in person. in fact we have a dinner meeting tonight. some people are cut throat and competitive, but if you ask me they are missing a trick and most venues don't like them as they "keep coming in all the time with their brochures" They have all independently contacted me as their supplier now as they like me and know I do a good job. :)

Professional Indemnity and Gear Insurance

Join NADJ. Sorted. You also get Promobile mag.
Get all your gear PAT tested once a year.

Have you thought of doing uber cool club type weddings as there is a market for that.
Well done buy the way, its nice to see someone doing it properly. I urge all lurkers to follow suit as we are more than happy to help. :)
I am buy no means an expert when compared to some on here, but know enough to give some advice. :)

[yourdj]

While I appreciate that some people may employ subterfuge to gain information from other DJs about pricing and the like, before you declare war on your neighbours, why not try " beer and sandwiches* " first?

* Google it. Basically, getting round a table socially, and working with each other, rather than against. Works for me, and for many others on here, I suspect.

:agree:

Everyone told me this (http://dj-alliance.co.uk) would not work and we are in our 5th year now. :)

[Benny Smyth]

I would seriously consider not using the NS7II. It is a beast in size and carting that around to mobile gigs will be, to say the least, a bit of a handful.

For the £200 mark, there's the Mixtrack Pro 2/Quad and a couple of Pioneer controllers like the WeGo, for example. If you're happy with two channels, the Traktor S2 MK II is available brand new for under £300, so a second hand one should come within budget. A brand new one will also come with the Traktor 2 software.

[Excalibur]

Shaun, well said that man. :like:



Music and Licencing

Buy new music in digital format and don't format change and you won't need that.
Not totally, wholly and strictly true, Toby. All you have to do is download one track on the home PC, and copy it to the gig machine, and hey presto, you need Produb. Stupid, but true.

Also, buying all the necessary music required to start up from scratch from a legal download site could easily be more costly than Produb. That's why everyone's looking at the licensed stream idea, from VDJ and the like.



Join NADJ. Sorted. You also get Promobile mag.
Indeed you do, Toby. Since I'm not a Nadjer* does this give insurance for the gear as well, as the OP was asking this?

* Google again. Round the Horne, Rambling Sid Rumpo. Those of a certain age will immdiately :Laugh: If I'm ever introduced to a couple named Julian and Sandy, I swear I'll giggle like an idiot.



I would seriously consider not using the NS7II. It is a beast in size and carting that around to mobile gigs will be, to say the least, a bit of a handful.

For the £200 mark, there's the Mixtrack Pro 2/Quad and a couple of Pioneer controllers like the WeGo, for example. If you're happy with two channels, the Traktor S2 MK II is available brand new for under £300, so a second hand one should come within budget. A brand new one will also come with the Traktor 2 software.

NS7, I have no idea. The mixtrack is not a highly featured animal, if I'm on the correct page. The Quad has much more to offer. Traktor, I know even less about, so I'll bow out

[Benny Smyth]

NS7, I have no idea. The mixtrack is not a highly featured animal, if I'm on the correct page. The Quad has much more to offer. Traktor, I know even less about, so I'll bow out

NS7 is a fun controller, to be fair. Rotating platters (real vinyl on top too). Also has a feature where you can kill EQ frequncies by just touching the knob, plus a lot of other bells and whistles. However, it is big and very heavy - designed to be put in one place and never be moved.

The Mixtrack Pro/Quads aren't great for features and have a very cheap feel to them, however - for some strange reason - they are pretty sturdy. Ellaskins did a few videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whqjwcf7Bdk) where he tried to prove that you can treat the Mixtrack Pro 2 very badly and they would still work.

As for the Traktor, I am a big advocate of. I have the S4. Great controllers, packed with features, decent size, well built, and if you're into electronic music it is the ideal controller. And you also get the full version of the Traktor 2 software - not a stripped down version that you can 'upgrade' at an added cost.

[Andy P]

Having never used it how does Traktor2 stack up vs VDJ8

[Casual77]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply. I've only been on here a week or so and I've been really pleasantly surprised by how helpful the various contributors to my few threads have been. It is greatly appreciated.

Ok... I'll try to respond to the various messages in this thread. I haven't got the hang of dropping in quotes but you should be able to gather if it is in response to something you have posted.


I realise that just by setting up and touting for business locally that I run the risk of moving in on the turf of other established DJs. I'm not setting out to ruffle any feathers and I guess I will pitch at a price level that I consider to be a fair reflection of the time, effort and expense I will put in and not base it too much on the prices of my local competition. I'm guessing that will probably put me somewhere about 'middle of the road' and I'll maybe look to increase my prices when I feel have the experience to justify it.

"If you're good enough, there's no reason why you should undervalue yourself". This is very true. The problem here is that I don't know if I am 'good enough'. I believe I have the right personal attributes and music knowledge to give it a good shot but at the moment I am the competent bedroom club-style DJ who has bought some speakers and some lights. I won't really know if I'm any good until I get out there and put myself to the test. I am looking to make a good job of this though and carve out a decent second-income so I'm approaching it with humility and no arrogance that I'm going to tear up the Yorkshire mobile DJ scene.





Music and Licencing

Buy new music in digital format and don't format change and you won't need that.



Not totally, wholly and strictly true, Toby. All you have to do is download one track on the home PC, and copy it to the gig machine, and hey presto, you need Produb. Stupid, but true.

From the research I've done into Pro-Dub I would suggest it extends beyond that. I have a considerable amount of music that I have bought and legally downloaded from a host of different sites including iTunes, Google Play, Amazon, Beatport and Juno Downloads. My understanding is that none of these sites permit commercial use of their music downloads and that, irrespective of whether the music is played direct from the original download source, I would need to get a Pro Dub licence. I've no problem buying one down the line if I know I can get the paid gigs to justify it but for now the Content Unlimited and Virtual DJ supplemented by some original CDs seems to be the cost effective way forward.

I have both Serato DJ and Traktor Pro 2 and would say both are very good in their own ways. I like Serato because I can play about with videos and I like the Remix Decks in Traktor. The attraction of Content Unlimited means that I will almost certainly go down the Virtual DJ route though. I think as far as basic functionality goes all three will be pretty similar and equally competent.

Have I thought about doing 'uber cool club type weddings'? If I found there was a genuine market for that I can't think of anything that would suit me better. I grew up on 80's pop, moved into early 90's hip-hop, then late 90's trance and into early to mid 2000's house music. I'd be more than happy to do specific 'Classics' nights in any of those genres because they are my musical passions and I will probably market these on my website as speciality options. I do have a pretty good general music knowledge and will be more than happy to spin popular tunes from the 1960's onwards though if the gig calls for that.

The Numark NS7ii is a fantastic controller and if it wasn't for the size and weight I would definitely use it on all my gigs. I do agree that something smaller would be more practical and pretty soon I will look for something that fits the bill. For now though, I might be better using the money for other equipment and just putting up with the inconvenience.

I think I will have to speculate to accumulate where the website is concerned. I've got a former client who develops pretty good modern 'cool' websites so maybe I'll see if he can do me a nice website at a good price. I've also got a client who I'm sure would do me some decent flyers without it costing me a fortune.

NADJ - I'm aware of it from my frequent trips to BPM but haven't looked into membership. I will definitely consider it though if the benefits justify the annual membership fee.

Oh by the way... My cousin phoned me last night to confirm that I've got her wedding gig (along with some singer who was a semi-finalist on Britain's Got Talent a few year's back). It will only be a 3 hour slot and hopefully I will have done a fair few gigs by then so I don't mess it up for her.

[DazzyD]

Sorry I didn't get back on last night. I had a few things (bottles of beer) to sort out before I fell asleep! ;)

Right, here goes:


...
Music and Licencing

I've done a bit of research into the Pro-Dub licence and I'm not sure I will do enough gigs to justify the £250 cost. Most of my CD collection wouldn't be appropriate for wedding and general birthday party discos so I will be pretty much starting from scratch. My plan at the moment is to subscribe to Virtual DJ and the Content Unlimited service and then download as much content as I can. I will then get a mobile broadband dongle so that I can download more songs on the night (when possible). Would this be a reasonable way of starting up?

In addition to using a midi controller I will buy a second-hand CDJ and use this to play original CDs as a back up. I'll then buy an assortment of 60's, 70', 80's, Rock Hits compilations etc which I gather I can legally play without needing the Pro-Dub licence.

If I legally by-pass the need for a Pro-Dub Licence will this limit the venues I could work at or would they generally accept that I don't have one because I don't need one?

I understand I can't us anything I've bought from iTunes, Beatport, Amazon, Juno on paid gigs without the Pro-Dub licence but would I be ok to use these for private parties in venues with a PPL licence as long as I'm not being paid and they aren't open to the general public? Are there any online music websites which I can buy from that are licenced for commercial use?

There are many music subscription services out there. Some will even let you download to your machine (with DRM systems applied) for offline playback. Very few will cover your downloads for public performance. VDJ's Content Unlimited is created solely for the working DJ. And it will cover you for public performance. Likewise, many download stores strictly prohibit the use of your purchases for professional use/public performances. These T&Cs can be a minefield. Be wary of everything if you want to stay totally legal.

As for needing ProDub for purchases from iTunes, Amazon, etc. this is not true. Each of these sevices download your purchases to a specific folder on your machine. Point your playout software to these folders (I use the smart/virtual folders in VDJ which continually updates my library each time I add something new) and don't move or copy the files and you won't need ProDub. You won't have immediate backup, though, should anything go wrong. Stores like 7Digital keep a record of your purchases in your personal download "locker" which you can use for backup purposes. But it's a bit of a chore downloading 10,000 purchases again one at a time! ProDub comes in to it's own for backup purposes.

DJ Hardware

I've got a Numark NS7ii which I could use but this is principally used with Serato. Does anyone know if this will work ok with Virtual DJ?

In order to use the NS7ii I would need to buy a suitable flight case which would cost about £160. Given that the Ns7ii is quite large and heavy would I be better to use that money to buy a smaller, lighter second hand controller?

Assuming I go down the route of a different controller can anyone recommend one with a built in sound card that would work well with Virtual DJ and would allow me to input a CDJ? (Preferably one that I could pick up second hand for less than £200)

The Numark NS7ii is supported natively in VDJ. However, if you don't have the Pro Infinity version you may have to buy an additional licence for your controller. Check out the VDJ forums for more info.

I'm planning to use a MacBook Pro and buy an external hard drive for downloading the music from Content Unlimited onto. Will any hard drive do or is there something specific I should look out for? Would I be better to just leave all the music on the MacBook hard drive instead?

Tracks will always load faster from an internal drive as they don't have the data transfer rates constraints imposed by USB or whatever connection method you are using.

Can I use the Virtual DJ licence on multiple computers as long as I only activate it on one computer at a time?

A single licence allows you to install VDJ on up to two computers providing they are both for your own personal use and are not used simultaneously. For example, one for practising on and one for actual playout. You can't run them both at the same time or loan one to a friend to use.

Marketing

Is there a not too costly way of advertising my services to get up and running?

I was going to visit some local private hire venues and drop in some business cards, set up a basic website and a Facebook page. Is there anything else I could consider to generate 2-3 gigs per month?

If you're planning on working WMCs or village halls, they usually have notice boards and may allow you to pin a card on there. Facebook page and websites, providing they can easily be found, are a good way of generating enquiries. But the most important thing of marketing is knowing your target market and then marketing accordingly. For example, if you sold combs, brushes and other hair products, you wouldn't put a full page advertisement in "Bald Man Monthly" magazine!

Pricing

AAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Professional Indemnity and Gear Insurance

Can anyone recommend a good insurer or broker? Am I better getting this cover through membership of a mobile DJ organisation?

I'm planning to set up as a limited company. Is that likely to have any bearing on the cost of the insurance cover?

DJGuard, E&L, one of numerous DJ associations that offer PLI as a membership benefit. There are loads. Is PLI worth it? Yes. Definitely. Is equipment insurance worth it? That depends on the price of the policy and the excess you have to pay. Compare policies carefully as, even though this is relatively small, niche industry, policy T&Cs can vary wildly. Do you own research of the policy providers and see if you can find a product that's suitable for you.

I think that's about it for now but I'm sure there will be more questions that come up when I start making definite plans.

Right, back to the day job!! :)

[Casual77]

Thanks for taking the time to expand on last night's teaser post.

It appears I was mistaken then. I've just re-read the Pro Dub FAQ and it says:

"When you purchase recordings, for example CDs from a record store or downloads from a legitimate online music service, you are only buying the right to listen to these recordings for private and domestic uses. This is why these recordings normally state that any unauthorised copying, hiring, broadcasting, etc of them is not permitted. If you therefore wish to make copies of these recordings for the purpose of carrying out performances such as DJing or conducting fitness classes or any other public performance, then you need to obtain a licence, which in these circumstances is the ProDub Licence."

I take it from this that it is making copies that is the critical point from this. Do I take it that downloads from iTunes etc are not prohibited for use in a commercial capacity then, provided I play them directly from the location of the original download? That still probably rules out my historic purchases because they are all on my iMac rather than on the MacBook Pro I plan to use on gigs (but presumably if the sites will allow me to re-download to a destination folder on my MacBook I will be fine?). Content Unlimited will be source of choice but are you able to give a quick list of sites which will and won't allow public performance? Apologies if this is a stupid question but does a private wedding party constitute a 'public performance'??

I plan to get Virtual DJ on the monthly licence basis until I know this mobile DJ lark is for me. I assumed I would have the same benefits as I would get through the Pro Infinity version on this but perhaps I need to check that on the Virtual DJ forums first. I don't really want to have to pay extra for any DJ Controller I choose to use.

AAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH! Do I take it from that that my question is raking over much-covered old ground? Or is the issue of pricing policy just a personal bugbear of yours?

Point taken on the insurance. PLI is a 'must' and the gear cover is worth considering if the cost isn't too prohibitive.

[Excalibur]

Allan, quotes are relatively easy, cos even I can do them.
To quote one post, hit the legend in the lower right corner, " Reply with quote ".

To make multiple quotes, click the little "+ on all the posts you wish to quote, and click Reply with Quote on the last one. They'll all show up in the reply box, and you may delete any irrelevant bits posted by others. Do not delete any square brackets, or anything inside them, otherwise the quote won't show as one, and one of us will have to fix it.

Using quotes can make things much easier to follow. Thanks.

Re Produb,





Music and Licencing

I've done a bit of research into the Pro-Dub licence and I'm not sure I will do enough gigs to justify the £250 cost. Most of my CD collection wouldn't be appropriate for wedding and general birthday party discos so I will be pretty much starting from scratch. My plan at the moment is to subscribe to Virtual DJ and the Content Unlimited service and then download as much content as I can. I will then get a mobile broadband dongle so that I can download more songs on the night (when possible). Would this be a reasonable way of starting up?


I'm always loath to try to correct Brother Dazzy in these matters, but here I feel, like Toby, he has missed a salient point.


As for needing ProDub for purchases from iTunes, Amazon, etc. this is not true. Each of these sevices download your purchases to a specific folder on your machine. Point your playout software to these folders (I use the smart/virtual folders in VDJ which continually updates my library each time I add something new) and don't move or copy the files and you won't need ProDub. You won't have immediate backup, though, should anything go wrong. Stores like 7Digital keep a record of your purchases in your personal download "locker" which you can use for backup purposes. But it's a bit of a chore downloading 10,000 purchases again one at a time! ProDub comes in to it's own for backup purposes.

The downloads mentioned above are indeed perfactly legal to use, and if downloaded directly to the playout device do not indeed need Produb. However, if you download them on the home PC, copy them to a hard drive, and use that to DJ from, you do need Produb.

If you're going to use a laptop for DJ'ing with that you can connect to the internet, fine, you can do what Dazzy says. For those of us who have stripped our playout machines down to the bones, and never connect then to the internet, we can't, so have to buy Produb.

Pricing? :whistle: It is an old and regularly recurring chestnut, often eliciting phrases such as " You'll never get that round here " and " I'd rather stay at home and watch telly than go out for that price " :D It also tends to cause jaundiced Old Gits like me to get behind the :sofa:

[Nakatomi]

Thanks for taking the time to expand on last night's teaser post.

It appears I was mistaken then. I've just re-read the Pro Dub FAQ and it says:

"When you purchase recordings, for example CDs from a record store or downloads from a legitimate online music service, you are only buying the right to listen to these recordings for private and domestic uses. This is why these recordings normally state that any unauthorised copying, hiring, broadcasting, etc of them is not permitted. If you therefore wish to make copies of these recordings for the purpose of carrying out performances such as DJing or conducting fitness classes or any other public performance, then you need to obtain a licence, which in these circumstances is the ProDub Licence."

I take it from this that it is making copies that is the critical point from this. Do I take it that downloads from iTunes etc are not prohibited for use in a commercial capacity then, provided I play them directly from the location of the original download? That still probably rules out my historic purchases because they are all on my iMac rather than on the MacBook Pro I plan to use on gigs (but presumably if the sites will allow me to re-download to a destination folder on my MacBook I will be fine?). Content Unlimited will be source of choice but are you able to give a quick list of sites which will and won't allow public performance? Apologies if this is a stupid question but does a private wedding party constitute a 'public performance'??

The PRS website sums this up nicely for you here (http://www.prsformusic.com/users/businessesandliveevents/Pages/PRSforMusicchargingpolicies.aspx#10)

Where music license agreements state they don't allow public performance.. this was the case for vinyl, 8-track tape, cassettes, open reel tapes, CDs & likely even wax cylinders :P What I take them to mean is that *they* don't, or won't grant you permission to play tracks in public. In the UK that role is given to the PRS.

I plan to get Virtual DJ on the monthly licence basis until I know this mobile DJ lark is for me. I assumed I would have the same benefits as I would get through the Pro Infinity version on this but perhaps I need to check that on the Virtual DJ forums first. I don't really want to have to pay extra for any DJ Controller I choose to use.

The notion of charging extra just to enable use of a certain controller in software is a strange one to me. Then again, if a DJ can afford to lay out in excess of a grand on a controller what's another couple of hundred quid?

Anyhoo, the Pro Infinity version covers everything you need, even using custom controller mappings (again, paying through the nose just for THAT? Gah!).



AAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH! Do I take it from that that my question is raking over much-covered old ground? Or is the issue of pricing policy just a personal bugbear of yours?

Pricing policy is entirely up to the individual, but racing to the bottom is (rightly) highly discouraged among the serious DJ community. There are already many threads where someone states they can't make more than £XX because everybody in their area charges less - and then plenty of people who'll come along to say it's still possible :) Maybe we should all club together & pay for a massive ad campaign imploring the public "DON'T CALL SID".

A sensible thing would be for anybody starting out planning where they'd like their break-even point to be, taking into account a wage, all their initial investment, music, web hosting, marketing & licensing, taxes etc... based on a presumed working rate (1 gig a fortnight on average, to start with - remembering that there are often slack periods where work can dry up).. and there you have the makings of a figure.

[DazzyD]

..
Re Produb,

I'm always loath to try to correct Brother Dazzy in these matters, but here I feel, like Toby, he has missed a salient point.


The downloads mentioned above are indeed perfactly legal to use, and if downloaded directly to the playout device do not indeed need Produb. However, if you download them on the home PC, copy them to a hard drive, and use that to DJ from, you do need Produb.

If you're going to use a laptop for DJ'ing with that you can connect to the internet, fine, you can do what Dazzy says. For those of us who have stripped our playout machines down to the bones, and never connect then to the internet, we can't, so have to buy Produb.

Pricing? :whistle: It is an old and regularly recurring chestnut, often eliciting phrases such as " You'll never get that round here " and " I'd rather stay at home and watch telly than go out for that price " :D It also tends to cause jaundiced Old Gits like me to get behind the :sofa:

I tried to put my post in the best wording I could but I was in a hurry as I was on reduced lunch break at work. I did say that as long as you didn't move or copy the files you downloaded then you wouldn't need ProDub. I think that it should have been clear that by "move" that would include from one device to another. You only need ProDub if you're "format-shifting" which, to be fair, is not the best decription as "format-shifting" implies changing from one format to another (CD to MP3, vinyl to cassette, or, in the digital-age, MP3 to FLAC,etc) but ProDub use it to describe the act of copying or moving a digital file from one location to another. However, the point about needing ProDub if your playout is never connected to the internet is also not quite true. When using the download services you can point your download preferences to save the files to an external hard-drive. Then this drive plugs in to your gigging machine where your software of choice is pointed to these folders. You're not copying or moving the files and, voila, no ProDub is needed! But, as I hinted earlier, ProDub is needed if you want to keep a physical backup of your music library - which is not only best practise but also common sense, really!

As for my reaction to the pricing query. This was because there is no answer. The question may as well have been "how long is an invisible piece of string?". There is no definition of the correct price for a disco service. You work out your expenses per annum, how much you'd like to, or need to, earn (everyone is different), decide how much you want to charge per show then work out how many bookings you'd need to take to reach this target. Most people starting off will probably find they need to work about 4 shows every night 365 nights of the year at their chosen per gig level to reach that annual target. Then, when they realise this is not physically possible, and only then, will they see their targets, or their pricing, is unrealistic and it's tweak-time. And once you find your "per gig" rate, this will help you decide the area you should be marketing in. For example, if you need £500+ per gig to reach your targets then, probably, church halls and WMCs are not your perfect market. Likewise, if you're setting your rates at £80 per show, you'll not get many bookings from the big PR companies employed during London Fashion Week or other big-scale events. Only you know how much you're happy earning and only you can make those aspirations a reality.

[Excalibur]

. However, the point about needing ProDub if your playout is never connected to the internet is also not quite true. When using the download services you can point your download preferences to save the files to an external hard-drive. Then this drive plugs in to your gigging machine where your software of choice is pointed to these folders. You're not copying or moving the files and, voila, no ProDub is needed! But, as I hinted earlier, ProDub is needed if you want to keep a physical backup of your music library - which is not only best practise but also common sense, really!


Ah! There you go, you see, you're on the advanced version. :D Being a sceptical old Luddite, I save my downloads to the home machine, and then copy them to the drive of the playout machine. We were describing different scenarios, and are both correct. I apologise profusely for impugning your reputation in these matters. :o

I think it just serves to illustrate what a baffling and absurd system Produb is.