How much am I worth? What makes me worth more?

[Excalibur]

Inspired by recent posts in here. (http://www.forum.mobilediscodirectory.co.uk/showthread.php?34864-Need-a-Disco) If I can get the technocrats onside, the last few posts may appear in here. May even try it myself, so keep an eye out for that.

Right, to the subject. What are we worth? Why is disco 1 earning fees double those of disco 2, if they're in the same area?

Badged PA? Nope. As long as it's roughly fit for purpose, tidy and reliable, the client won't care. Will buying a nice posh Vertus/Bose/Evox/Maui double your earning capacity? No again. It's got lots of advantages for some jobs, but people won't pay more to hear it.

Big PA? Unless you regularly play in venues the size of football stadia, no to that too. It's not how big it is, it's what you do with it that counts. :)

Big lightshow? Will clients pay more for a big flashy lightshow? One of mine did, but only because they wanted " the full nightclub experience", and by jove they got it. ;) Took ages to rig, mind. :(
Many clients have recently asked for simple, tasteful lights that don't dazzle Grandma. A couple of Tripars, or a powerbar pointed at the ceiling fit that request, and movement on the dancefloor is a pair of moonflowers with gobos, not dots.

Well, that seems to suggest that big, flashy, branded kit won't boost your takings, but might hammer your bank balance/credit card. So what does help?

Well a badly designed, misspelt website won't. Even if you do it yourself, get it proofread, and keep it classy. Not my specialist subject, so I got someone to do it for me.
You must give your clients the reassurance that you're reliable, legitimate, fairly knowledgeable about your job. Above all, you have to show them you're interested in giving them a night that runs smoothly, and delivers more than they paid for. If you can foresee possible problems, and offer solutions to them that helps.
If you can speak to them, and show them why you're the man/woman for the job, rather than the cut-price chancer down the road, do it. Genuine enthusiasm will shine through, and you don't need to be a salesman, just engage with the client.

Add onsNow we're talking. I suspect those who get very high fees don't simply get them for a four hour disco.
Don't just turn up half an hour before you're due to do that marquee wedding, and fight your way through punters, tables, chairs and children. Get set up in the morning, be there to play some suitable background during the meal, offer a mic for the speeches, and your fee will climb. More hours= more money, a very simple concept to explain and justify.
Get a dancefloor supplier onside, and you'll usually get a commission. Same with uplighters, or buy them yourself if you can. The more suppliers you can introduce clients to, the more you'll get back from that, not just in monetary terms.

I think that will start the ball rolling, and I know there are lots of folk who will add valuable ideas here, so fire away folks.

[Daryll]

I am worth what I charge , I charge what I am worth

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Which is pretty much what I said I was intending to do with any enquiries coming in from Cheshire so this reassurngly suggests I am also on the right track :)

Rich

That you charge based on where the enquiry comes from?

[Imagine]

Sounding very similar to a chap I'm working with who now lives in Cyprus there Peter ;)

You are indeed correct though. It's all about the service and "value add" now, i.e. showing that you can go that extra mile and justify what you're charging. Anyone can turn up and play music for 4/5 hours (how well they do it is another matter but you get the idea)....how many of the cheaper DJ's go the extra mile on just the little things like customer service, maybe increasing their price but having this include things like uplighting and confetti cannons so that it looks a lot better value rather than charging more for them (I know....two distinct business models there, the second is working very nicely for me).

I doubled my prices this year. We're only at the end of March...already I have HALF the number of last year's gig's booked and confirmed (there's still 8 months to take bookings and I'm only at 50% capacity)....however I've already BEATEN last year's turnover at the same time. :beer1:

[Excalibur]

That you charge based on where the enquiry comes from?

Well yes.
Short answer, I don't work for local rates if I have to drive 100 miles each way, and stay in a travelodge.

Long answer, Dicky has said that this area isn't where he'd normally ( look for ) work, so since he's going to get enquiries from there anyway, he'll use them as a control for his area. If he finds he is getting work at significantly higher rates in Cheshire, he can try to raise his prices in Staffordshire with some confidence. Also, if he does get work in Staffordshire, it will pay enough to compensate for the extra time/distance.
Logical enough to me.


I am worth what I charge , I charge what I am worth

Ah, now that's where we differ.
I'm worth more than I charge, and I charge what the market will bear. Think about it. ;)

[yourdj]

Thanks for another price thread Peter - we all know these go nowhere. :p

I think the whole philosophy of this is to up the game in terms of customer service and at least half the amount of events you get (expect lots of knock backs). The problem is you still have to have all the other things in place and actually be a good DJ with lots of experience and the right mentality to get the point of it. Dave reed conveniently left that out of his earlier talks. Derek has a good grasp of this (the chap in Cyprus). i started at £200 not too long back and have slowly increased things.

Rather than a 50% uptake - 90% of people would wince at my prices (£500-700 evening) and book the another DJ for £300 ish. What I look for is the 10% that are interested and then the remaining 5% usually book following a well co-ordinated and personalised planning meeting. About 20% all day bookings this year, which is increasing each year.

On the other side of it - we have stated a photo booth and i have added lots of technical extras (e.g. nightclub lighting). This is vastly popular and just the DJ and extras is a considerably higher wage. This is purely down to good marketing, by demonstrating the value it will bring them.

Thats what i do anyway and its working well. My fee is justified in my experience, extra services & attention to detail. The proof of the pudding is if you are busy at your required rate. i am no expert on anything really, compared to others but seem to be doing OK? I have seen a few people take this to the extreme and have been sitting at home for most of the year as they have believed what others have told them. The trick I think is to do it gradually, or really go out and do it properly with a more professionally approach similar to a larger organisation (with budgets too match).

[Andy P]

I'd truly like to meet a local north east DJ who charges over £500 for a disco (no extras) and go and see what they are doing for the money. Im not saying it can't be done but id be more confident with something to compare to.

[Imagine]

The trick I think is to do it gradually, or really go out and do it properly with a more professionally approach similar to a larger organisation (with budgets too match).

Well said Toby - exactly the way I'm working and what I'm aspiring to at the moment. I'm currently where you were a couple of years ago.
I'm using the services of a certain Mr Pengelly at the moment, and it's a real eye-opener on all fronts, especially making you actually think about what it is you offer.

Up until Christmas, I was stuck under the glass ceiling...why would people pay more for me for a wedding reception than the chap down the road at half the price. I've actually realised now that it's not just about the flashing lights and music....there's a lot more that can be offered, thus adding value and making your higher price seem reasonable (and actually, it doesn't have to be that difficult).

As for pricing - I have no delusions of being at the £500-£800 for an evening just yet. That's going to take a couple of years whilst I well and truly re-learn the craft I retired from 18 years ago (and it's a lot different from then), continue rebuilding the reputation, and become known for the service and attention to detail I offer as standard.

[ppentertainments]

I'd truly like to meet a local north east DJ who charges over £500 for a disco (no extras) and go and see what they are doing for the money. Im not saying it can't be done but id be more confident with something to compare to.


As far as I know there is no-one in the immediate area commanding that sort of fee for a evening disco - some are close, but not quite there, and those that are close ( and being their only income), that I know, do not make what I would call a ‘good’ living out of it.

I won’t get drawn into the area argument, but you have to consider that as one example, a hotel chain in the area pays their resident DJ £175 whereas in a different area, that same chain pays £450 – even though the hotel in this area is (supposedly) far superior. Also the only 5 star hotel in the area pays £170. I know this is not directly related but hopefully puts into perspective.

Now, a few year ago I got drawn into this ‘you can charge what you like’ way of thinking – and it nearly finished me. What I do now is look at what I make a week/month/year. I don’t look too much into a per booking basis or doing as little work as possible, instead I have set a target of making £950 a week and built my business around that. Some weeks I make more, others I don’t hit target – but then look at what I could have done.

I am not saying it is not possible – I have a few very nice bookings in the diary, and my fee is not that short of the £500 mark, however I could in no way make a decent living out of doing those type of bookings alone. It is suprising also at the people who claim to make a living out of doing high end bookings, but have a lot of backing already – wives with good wages, redundancy, other interests, a really good residency etc.

To make the money, in my eyes, you have to offer other services and find yourself a niche in the market. More importantly, once you have found that service or niche, you have to move quickly before the market gets saturated – just look at the £200 starlit floors, £150 LOVE letters, £80 Starcloths etc all good in their day, but short lived.

Obviously I am full time, so can’t take the risk. If you don’t rely on the money you probably could pitch at that level, with experience, and maybe grab a booking a month or so, which would be great, however (sorry to sound negative) those charging near that fee round here ‘jump through hoops’ and dedicate a lot of time to every bride and groom, something I think would be difficult on a part-time basis. Even I openly admit I do not put half the work a lot in a similar price bracket do, as I just don’t have the time to dedicate.

Your figure of £500 a booking I don’t think has been achieved in this area yet – but £52k a year is achievable, just not by doing evening only discos

[ppentertainments]

Rather than a 50% uptake - 90% of people would wince at my prices (£500-700 evening) and book the another DJ for £300 ish. What I look for is the 10% that are interested and then the remaining 5% usually book following a well co-ordinated and personalised planning meeting. About 20% all day bookings this year, which is increasing each year.


With those fees Toby, I am amazed at how cheap you sell your 'extras' for.

[Shaun]

I'd truly like to meet a local north east DJ who charges over £500 for a disco (no extras) and go and see what they are doing for the money. Im not saying it can't be done but id be more confident with something to compare to.

Colin Cook is in the North East, I'm pretty sure he charges over and beyond that?

[ppentertainments]

Colin Cook is in the North East, I'm pretty sure he charges over and beyond that?
Not yet - not far off,but not yet

[DazzyD]

I'd truly like to meet a local north east DJ who charges over £500 for a disco (no extras) and go and see what they are doing for the money. Im not saying it can't be done but id be more confident with something to compare to.

I once had an enquiry from a wedding planner for her clients getting married at Beamish Hall. I quoted £350 (I couldn't do it so the plan was to take a £100 cut and pass it on for £250). The wedding planner got back to me and said thanks for the quote but my quote was half the price of the next lowest quote and that her clients thought, at that price, I wasn't what they were looking for!!! :eek:

Just goes to show. I never found out who the clients were or what their budget was. But it sounds like it could have been an amazing night for someone!

[ukpartydj]

One DJ's extra is another DJ's standard service.
I include 4 up lighters with all evening bookings and consider it to be part of my lightshow, whilst some will charge extra for them. I don't include my truss pillar things normally but some consider it part of their setup

I recently included first dance track editing / mixing into my package and would like to include custom gobos however I won't make them extras I'll put my price up.

[funkymook]

Here’s an interesting exercise.

Pretend you’re a client and have no industry experience at all - have a look at as many decent quality DJ websites that you can find and see if you can pick out anything on any of them that is really different to any of the others.

[Excalibur]

Here’s an interesting exercise.

Pretend you’re a client and have no industry experience at all - have a look at as many decent quality DJ websites that you can find and see if you can pick out anything on any of them that is really different to any of the others.

I'm inclined to bet you won't. So how is the poor ignorant punter to choose? If they're all perceived as being equal, they'll go on price. Why not? You have to engage with them, and show them that you'll give them a better level of service, and thus better value for money.

[ppentertainments]

I'm inclined to bet you won't. So how is the poor ignorant punter to choose? If they're all perceived as being equal, they'll go on price. Why not? You have to engage with them, and show them that you'll give them a better level of service, and thus better value for money.
I agree and believe people are viewing websites with an air of caution. No disrespect, but I know of people with fantastic websites who get little work - why ? because the website does not represent THEM.

Networking has been my biggest benefit. Finding out face to face about what other DJs offer. The biggest eye opener was realising what I do offer that other DJs don't, but don't tell brides.

[Benny Smyth]

Big lightshow? Will clients pay more for a big flashy lightshow? One of mine did, but only because they wanted " the full nightclub experience", and by jove they got it. ;) Took ages to rig, mind. :(
Many clients have recently asked for simple, tasteful lights that don't dazzle Grandma. A couple of Tripars, or a powerbar pointed at the ceiling fit that request, and movement on the dancefloor is a pair of moonflowers with gobos, not dots.

Well, that seems to suggest that big, flashy, branded kit won't boost your takings, but might hammer your bank balance/credit card.

Whilst I do agree that your fee has little/nothing to do with the size & quality of your lightshow, I am going to act as an advocate of the big lightshow for now.

Let me take you back to 2011, when I started this 'reincarnation' of my mobile DJ career (I have been bouncing around mobile, club, bars and radio for years). This is what I had to play with:

http://i62.tinypic.com/289hsvk.jpg

When I had this kit, I was charging £200 for an evening's entertainment and the reason for that was simple: even though I have good level of experience behind me, I have profile and decent-ish kit (not the best kit in the world, but by no means the worst), I lacked the confidence to charge more than I was. After a couple of years came the next stage:

http://i57.tinypic.com/2sbn213.jpg

Mostly, that was the same kit, with the only difference being a 4 metre gantry, the addition of two moving heads and I started to DMX my lighting. That gave me more confidence to start charging more and I started to break the £350 barrier. Even though the kit was mostly the same, the price went up by 75%. Then came the next stage:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BNclJeFCMAEyX-E.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ba54YLJIUAAxlLl.jpg

Boom. Now that's definitely a step up in quality. Moonflowers are gone, all replaced by moving heads. Add in the LiteConsole, and I started charging £400-450. Still the same guy behind the decks, but the better equipment gave me more confidence. What followed then was the next (and most recent) round of investment and I have added to my fee accordingly (don't worry, I shan't be posting those pics again).

Like I say, it is still the same guy behind the decks (albeit, a wiser one who learns develops his craft as he goes along) but I do think that expensive kit (i.e. the bigger lightshow) does have it's uses. It instills confidence into the DJ to charge more and certainly closer to what they are worth. When it comes to advertising your services, I know that I would much rather my current setup to be in the promotional pictures over my previous setups. It just looks a damn sight more impressive. I know that the general consensus is that people don't book DJ's based on the lightshow (and, on the whole, I agree) but I can recall three examples in the last twelve months where clients booked me over somebody else because the lighting looks so good in the pictures. Granted, only three bookings but that is three bookings I may not have had.

I stand by my thesis from a couple of days back when I said that clients notice crap lighting, and anything above that goes largely unnoticed. If, however, you perform at a gig where your clients are the exception to the rule, and impressive lightshow will make all the difference to them. I have also found that the gigs feel so much 'bigger' and I definitely see a positive difference in reactions from clients and guests. Is that more to do with my developing experience over the lightshow? Maybe but I'd argue that, possibly, it goes hand in hand.

I, personally, don't offer extras on top of my services. If I have a client who wants uplighting or a dancefloor, I can pass those aspects of the booking onto my contacts and get a 'finders fee' for my troubles. At this point in time, I don't fancy the idea of offering those services although - just maybe - I may change my mind in the future.

The service I offer is very simple: I'm a damn good DJ and event host, with a damn good lightshow and a damn good sound system. As a result, I charge accordingly. Whether my path to develop my confidence is the right or wrong path is certainly in the eye of the beholder, but that is my own personal experience. :)

[dicky]

That you charge based on where the enquiry comes from?


No
I meant that that I want to experiment with pricing charges using a source enquiries that are in additional to my main stream of business - therefore i have 'nothing particular to lose' in doing so but maybe something to gain or at least i could learn something

More about this when i got chance - had an interesting unexpected gig last night ;)

[DJ Jules]

Like I say, it is still the same guy behind the decks (albeit, a wiser one who learns develops his craft as he goes along) but I do think that expensive kit (i.e. the bigger lightshow) does have it's uses.

Going back to the point made above, if clients look at 10 websites and they're all very similar, then how do clients choose? Some DJ's invest and make sure clients can see they have different kit, others offer services that other DJ's aren't prepared to offer (e.g. all day weddings, background music, etc).

Kit is actually a pretty easy sell (customers can SEE the difference), service is much harder as you have to start the conversation with the client first and then be able to articulate why you're different.

Julian

[Excalibur]

I once had an enquiry from a wedding planner for her clients getting married at Beamish Hall. I quoted £350 The wedding planner got back to me and said thanks for the quote but my quote was half the price of the next lowest quote and that her clients thought, at that price, I wasn't what they were looking for!!! :eek:
!

I've had that. On one, I doubled my standard fee, and the reason for not booking me was: " Too cheap".


Mind you, I've lowered my price considerably, and been " Too expensive". :daft:

[Nakatomi]

Whilst I do agree that your fee has little/nothing to do with the size & quality of your lightshow, I am going to act as an advocate of the big lightshow for now.


I'd call it BIG in terms of effect & appropriateness. In the later photos the lights which look like Revos have disappeared & you've gone with lights which actually move and are very bright (i.e. they cause the room to be lit). Some might interpret 'big' as meaning 'more lights', which can have completely the wrong effect.

Cheap LED dot effects are like cheap moonflower effects were in the early 90s. A bit naff. They don't provide much light & without fog or haze, very little effect either. It's fine to have those, but not at the expense of colour washes. I've seen the difference even one LED PAR bar can make to a room (the hotel where I played last night have 2 laser clusters & 2 ADJ Revos, that's IT! What, maybe £400 worth of lights new , but completely inappropriate for weddings IMHO) - bands sometimes bring a set of LED PARs along & it makes no end of improvement to the place.

That's what seems to separate the 'big boys' from the rest from my point of view.. the photos that show more than just a few points of light. Striking light at big reflective surfaces is way more effective IMHO & you're doing that in spades. You're transforming a room, not just the area immediately in front of you (but that, IMHO is what every disco should be doing, even if they're only using PARs - not just shining dots at the crowd).

When I walk into a setup where there are podiums with LED panels atop (a rare occurrence), the first thing I do is angle the units UP at the ceiling or towards the nearest wall because at the height they're at, they're at eye level on the dancefloor. Ouch.

The liteconsole looks impressive to me because I know what it costs, but trying to see it from a punter's point of view, it doesn't look tacky like starcloth over a frame can. Starcloth is the new gold lamé curtain.

I think where moving heads are concerned, now these are in an entirely different league. This is the kind of gear people normally only see at concerts or on the telly. There's an air of 'special' about them, I reckon & this sets them apart from the usual disco lighting.

[dicky]

I did say I would post back soon as I got chance so here goes

Last night I took a very late minute booking for a wedding reception - this came in at 3pm for a party that was 30 mins drive away from me and started at 7pm

I already had a booking in for a birthday party at a local-ish pub starting at 8:30pm

With a very quick chat with my roadie-come-very-new-fellow-DJ (one trial party night offered free to a pub last week in which he played solo on his newly bulit rig for about an hour after i helped/gave confidence for the first couple of hours) we decided to go for it and split the proceeds down the middle

So he took on my £80 pub night (offered as much as a favour as anything else as the publican is one of my customers in my day business) and I took on the last minute booking because it needed a bigger rig.

Club night, large venue (350+ capacity) with about 150 in attendance

The reason I got this - a local very well established DJ who I met a couple months back had an operation on his wrist and it did not go to planned so he could not work. He had seen my setup once (I was breaking down as he was setting up for the next night) and he believed I had a rig big enough to handle the venue

Anyway upshot of all this - the fee was £200 (which is £50-£70 more than my normal charge) it went absolutely fanstastic and today when i picked the kit up the manager has asked for my number as I am, in their words 'one of the few discos we have seen who can fill the room with sound and light'

I have to agree personally I felt my rig ran superbly last night and filled the venue (the biggest i have played so far)

Reason for the post - well I have come to the realisation, what makes a £600 disco worth ore than a £150 disco? Answer - Specialisation!!

I now have a rig which can handle big venues. Whether you like powerful PA systems and lots of flashing lights and lasers is YOUR personal choice, but the point is I now believe some customers will pay GOOD money for just that. Also I also believe once you move away from the small pub/venues there there is less competition who can handle that well/properly. So it becomes a rarified market, hence bigger fees are achievable.

But to me this is just one way to big fees - same as other customers will pay GOOD money for tasteful uplighters, added value (extra offerings, chocolate fountains or whatever) the clients to pay reason is not really the important thing

Unless anyone says I am wrong I now realise the answer is..... find some niche (fantastic PA. flashy lighting, extra services etc) you can really excel in, do just that, and the big money will follow :)

Couple videos

myself at the large club last night (sorry the quality is :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored:e but the effect is obvious - I was proud to be on stage with 'the singing waiters' they did the first part of the night so I had chance to shot the video)

and if I can find it - my 'roadie', now DJ on his first night

Rich

me last night - love it or hate it (do let me know) but it went down a storm with the clients and even more important the venue managers http://youtu.be/EYqJdLVKoLY


My mate, roadie, and now DJ - who has a far better cam than me!!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liLGra7kvHM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVmcA3DcKKg

[ppentertainments]

I once had an enquiry from a wedding planner for her clients getting married at Beamish Hall. I quoted £350 (I couldn't do it so the plan was to take a £100 cut and pass it on for £250). The wedding planner got back to me and said thanks for the quote but my quote was half the price of the next lowest quote and that her clients thought, at that price, I wasn't what they were looking for!!! :eek:

Just goes to show. I never found out who the clients were or what their budget was. But it sounds like it could have been an amazing night for someone!

If I am correct that was from a client making ‘steps’ towards her wedding which was televised – although the DJ requested autonomity ;-)

From market research, via a third party, I am also aware you offer discounts to EVERY enquiry ?
As mentioned before – it would be nice to have an HONEST perception of the market.

[yourdj]

Well said Toby - exactly the way I'm working and what I'm aspiring to at the moment. I'm currently where you were a couple of years ago. I'm using the services of a certain Mr Pengelly at the moment, and it's a real eye-opener on all fronts, especially making you actually think about what it is you offer.

Ta having some form of real reflection is a good thing (videoing yourself, using "Dereks grooming service ®", someone at your gig, workshops etc.) really can help. I have neglected that in the last few years. Every event can improve and so does the price IMO, even if its a pound a gig. Today I did an all day and really excelled with the "being myself" ethos. Really nailed it despite forgetting the clocks changed last night (always 2 hours early anyway) :)

There is a pricing difference by area so that does not help, but even in crap areas there are people who have the money and will actively seek better suppliers. IMO those areas are a monopoly - its just working out what people want and how to market effectively too them. 90% of times its recommendation by the venue or other similar clients - but if someone is stuck in their ways or crap at business then they will not see that and adopt the "around here" mentality. At the end of the day if the DJ lives in a bad area and it really is that cheap then the housing costs and living cost will be the same to match, so the wage they charge should be in keeping with that, so I don't see why they should be charging £700 a gig really when the "average" is £150 - should be £300?

The average 3 bed bungalow in the new forest costs £500,000! ;)

I think my extras are warranted really - based on the time taken to transport, set up, run or maintain? :) I am good at my job so the main cost is me. I am loving it at the moment really coming out of myself with the hosting. Taken years to get there mind you, with lots of videos and self crisis's from all the cringing looking at my crapness!

As usual this is all very tongue in cheek.

[Benny Smyth]

The liteconsole looks impressive to me because I know what it costs, but trying to see it from a punter's point of view, it doesn't look tacky like starcloth over a frame can. Starcloth is the new gold lamé curtain.

I think where moving heads are concerned, now these are in an entirely different league. This is the kind of gear people normally only see at concerts or on the telly. There's an air of 'special' about them, I reckon & this sets them apart from the usual disco lighting.

The LiteConsole is the piece of kit that gets most comments. I've said it before that I've spent lots on everything around it, but the LC gets noticed most. Not gonna complain though - great for working on, easy to setup and a lovely branding opportunity. ;)

With regards to moving heads, that is exactly how I describe it to clients. It is essentially the same technology that you see on 'Strictly Britains Got X Factor Whilst Singing On Ice With The Idol Stars Academy' (at least, I think that's what the show is called!). Once you decribe it like that, they can see it in their heads.

[Andy P]

I love the lite console and as soon as cash permits am getting one.

Dicky that's some serious amount of lights - if you ever do a gig with a glass roof I can see helicopters landing.

Personally I couldn't afford to pay £300 for a DJ to come to my party. When you add in food and invites and hall hire etc a birthday party would be heading over £600 and for me (a tight wad) that is ludicrous .

So who is going to service the cheap skates like me. Perhaps this is why I dont charge more - empathy for people like me who live on a budget

[Imagine]

Personally I couldn't afford to pay £300 for a DJ to come to my party. When you add in food and invites and hall hire etc a birthday party would be heading over £600 and for me (a tight wad) that is ludicrous .

So who is going to service the cheap skates like me. Perhaps this is why I dont charge more - empathy for people like me who live on a budget

Different markets for different DJ's (as I'm finding out rapidly)

Yes, there are those who will only pay minimum rate for a DJ (after all, we only press buttons and play music, don't we :confused:). I myself am I tight wad and when I look at the amount of money spent on the food, the venue etc., even for some of the kids parties I do I stand and think....why?????

Yes, there are those who will never pay more than £150 for their DJ, and there's DJ's out there who are more than prepared to take on those gigs and service them in a professional way.

There's also those out there who will pay a LOT more than that (my average evening fee at the moment is between £250 and £300 depending on what it is and how far I'm travelling etc.), and I know I'll eventually get more once I've finished working on a couple of other things. My books are at 50% capacity this year and yet I've already beaten last year's turnover - mainly because I've increased my prices significantly, but also because I've now got the confidence to say "well Mr Client.....that's what I charge because........."

Do you offer anything other than just flashing lights and music? (telly's for slideshows? adult (not what you're thinking) games?, playlist management? Mic's for speeches?).

Without waving my gentlemen vegetables around...I'm getting the same price for a two hour kids party at the moment as you're getting for an entire evening by the sound of it (I'm around £75 an hour for kids)....and I'm getting silly numbers of bookings. The reason, the perceived value I offer. Most of the locals that do kids parties round here turn up, play music and go home again. I don't. I interact with them and entertain them (things like games, silly dances, a bit of well aimed humour, snow - it's pretty much the full on Red-Coat experience). Yes it costs me a lot of energy, about £3.50 of snow fluid and around £5 in bags of Haribo for prizes....but the parents also know that the whole party's taken care of other than the food and can watch the fun and relax.

I've found the trick in my neck of the woods is to have "a price" and offer some or all of this sort of thing at no extra cost..it makes it look a lot better money from the client's perspective and makes you seem more appealing....they're getting a lot more bang for their buck even though they're spending more money.

I think it was Toby that suggested earlier on in this thread that it's very much a case of softly softly catchy monkey. I was where you are this time last year (I did weddings for £175!). I've since worked on who I am,what I offer, and more importantly, how I market myself, and the gigs are still coming. This is going to be a continuous process and a lot of hard work, but I'll reap the results over the next couple of years until I'm where I want to be.

Just my experience from this year's research and results ;)

[DJ Jules]

Personally I couldn't afford to pay £300 for a DJ to come to my party. When you add in food and invites and hall hire etc a birthday party would be heading over £600 and for me (a tight wad) that is ludicrous .

Now if you were earning £1k a week for just a Saturday night, £600 wouldn't seem like quite so much...

:zip:

Julian

[dicky]

The gig I landed on Saturday was a bit of an eye opener to me

As I mentioned it was 30 mins or so drive for me - but was actually in the neighbouring county - Shropshire in this Case, not Cheshire

I don't know what the wedding party cost (I know my fee was £200 as I was payed on the night) but i was on stage with these guys http://www.thebestsingingwaiters.com/ and I can't believe they come cheap!

Also all the food for the buffet was coming fresh out of the kitchens - so the stuff that IMHO should be eaten hot (but almost everyone puts out cold on a buffet) was coming out freshly cooked and warm - including the chicken goujons, mini spring roll thingsies and cheesy suasage rolls :)

So I guess some money was spenty on this night - my best guess in the region of £1000 - £1500 maybe more :confused:

I mention being a bit of an eye opener - well I have learned.....

The guy who passed me the booking has been in the DJ business for decades and is well known around here, but come to think about it he is taking evening wedding parties at £200 - so that must be the going rate and as good as this area is likely to get maybe?

Some customers definitely do like lots and lots of flashing lights - especially if they are big and powerful and can light the whole room. They honestly really did love it, but also the venue manager loved it which to me is possibly more important. Just by a stroke of luck, when I picked my kit up on Sunday (was too late on saturday what with the clock going forwards) I had a chat with her and was touting for any possible future business. She had a black book with a list of discos (and karaoke, singers, and all the other forms of club entertainment. The whole 'Discos' page was full with several written at the bottom after all teh printed ones. I immediately spotted what I thought for a second was my name on line three of the list - but it was spelt different Dickies Disco. She said that one had retired ages ago, so she crossed it out and put Dickys Disco immediately under, with my website and phone number

So I am now third on the list lol don't know if that is of any relevance but somehow it seems better than being tagged on at the bottom :p

Oh I also learned that my PA was powerful enough for this venue, but I did notice the clip LEDS fllicking on my Subs Amp (W-Audio 1300 -650W RMS per channel) on some very punchy bass tracks, which I have never seen it do before. Just a tiny nudge down on the Bass and this stopped, or they just flicked on one or the other channel occasionally rather than a quick flash on every beat. So it would seem that is the limit for this amp. Much bigger rooms and I would probably need another pair of those reinforced QTX 18'' subs and another amp. The Crown 21100 running the tops never clipped but that is around twice the power.

The singing waiters were great - they did the first hour after the buffet so really i just had to play background for 90 mins before the food, and 10:30-1am in full swing afterwards. The waiters had asked if they could use my PA and were verfy pleased with the results,far beefier than their own they said, and we exchanged business cards so who knows could be possiblity of work coming that way in future. It would be great to work with them again, we really got on well and I very much enjoyed it.

I'm glad there seems to be an acceptance that there are big regional differences in prices. It has been stated before that location does not make much difference. My first foray out of the city and I got almost 50% more money, made hopefully a couple good contacts, and know the limitations of my PA.

Oh Toby, I'm not quite sure where you are coming from thinking that people in affluent areas need to charge three times the money to be equally well off as those in living in poorer areas - we all pay much the same for food, fuel, energy, cars, foreign holidays, disco gear and the things we enjoy in life don't we?

PS - got a nice semi-detached 3 bedroom bungalow here, conservatory, garden front and back, it's a fairly quiet street and we don't get a lot of hassle, it's on the very edge of the city 10 mins walk to the south and I am in the countryside and 10 mins to the north I'm in the town centre. It's a snip if I ever come to sell it, could fetch as much as £80000 if I am lucky as it's probably the nicest house on the street as most of them are terraced. At least I own it outright.

Interestingly, everyone seems to be holding on to these houses - last two recorded sales on the street were in 2010
70 Spring Road Terraced house, Freehold £34,000
62 Spring Road Semi-detached house, Freehold £77,000
- so even if anyone wants a bargain seems like they don't come up very often lol

My best guess by the way why property is reasonably priced in Stoke? Because the weather is mostly :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored:e. so no one wants to live here I'm only here cos i was born here and haven't escaped yet :p

Rich

[Benny Smyth]

The singing waiters aren't cheap. I've worked with them before a couple of time.


The guy who passed me the booking has been in the DJ business for decades and is well known around here, but come to think about it he is taking evening wedding parties at £200 - so that must be the going rate and as good as this area is likely to get maybe?

Before I chuck in my thought, just one question: did the DJ pay you or did the client pay you directly?

[funkymook]

Personally I couldn't afford to pay £300 for a DJ to come to my party. When you add in food and invites and hall hire etc a birthday party would be heading over £600 and for me (a tight wad) that is ludicrous .

So who is going to service the cheap skates like me. Perhaps this is why I dont charge more - empathy for people like me who live on a budget

My attitude is you really can’t afford to have a party then - but you're very lucky that there are cheap DJs out there who undercharge.

[Excalibur]

Now if you were earning £1k a week for just a Saturday night, £600 wouldn't seem like quite so much...

:zip:

Julian

It's all relative. I had a 50th birthday gig at ( to me ) a very acceptable price. After being cc'ed into correspondence between client and venue, I realised my fee was relatively small. 100 guests with buffet @ £15 a head comes to £1500!

KindaKinda puts things into perspective, doesn't it?

[funkymook]

The guy who passed me the booking has been in the DJ business for decades and is well known around here, but come to think about it he is taking evening wedding parties at £200 - so that must be the going rate and as good as this area is likely to get maybe?



I played at a wedding at a WMC in Staffordshire a few years ago - with travel my fee was £650 (which was cheap). No extras, just music and a few lights, if I remember rightly I played from 6pm to midnight. Their original budget was £250-£300

The reason they booked me over any nearer DJs - they liked how I responded to their enquiry, I showed a genuine interest in their wedding and the music they wanted, it was as simple as that.

Anyone can have a full diary at £200 a pop, you don’t need to do anything but tell someone how much you charge - but putting a bit more effort into how you present yourself and not only will you get higher paying clients you may also get some of the £200 clients paying more.

[Shaun]

I've referred back to this old post from a while ago a few times in the past, as I think properly evaluating your running costs should dictate how much you need to be charging.

Add all your running costs up, add on how much you feel your time and experience is worth then you should have a ball park figure of what you should be charging.


Following on from another thread with a familiar theme, I wonder if you have worked out what it costs per gig for you to DJ?

I don't mean just petrol etc. for the day, I mean a proper costing which adds up the annual expenditure and divides it by the average number of gigs you do in a year.

Costs should include:

Operating Costs
Depreciation of operating equipment (speakers, players etc) at 25% per annum
Disposables (eg. bulbs, leads, fuses)
Giveaways (glowsticks etc.)
Roadies
Vehicle costs including servicing, tyres, tax and insurance etc.
Music Purchases
Clothing Purchases and cleaning
Equipment repairs
PA Testing
PLI
Other insurances (eg. equipment)
Licences
Fuel costs
Parking costs

Office costs
Computer
Paper and Ink
Postage
Telephone & Fax
Heat, light & power for office/home (an appropriate proportion)
Advertising
Internet costs (hosting, ISP, email etc.)
Subscriptions

I know what it costs me per gig and set my charges accordingly.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Interesting replies... I'm going to keep my 2ps worth short n sweet.

The reason I'm worth what I'm worth (My standard fees start from £450 for a midnight finish, two martin efxs and couple of uplighters behind me, DSB with plain black cloth frontage) has sweet FA to do with my kit, promises of having everyone dancing or turning up in a dickie bow.

I keep everything simple, I'm just me. I don't try and be a touchy feely over the top american type who refers to the wedding day as a chapter in someones love story because it's not me.

I'm a nice laid back guy who actually listens to what people want (in general terms as there's some that break the norm) and I just play music centred around what my clients want. I hate gangnam style, cotton eye joe, YMCA etc...and will tell my clients that. If they want that sort of night I'm not their guy.

Be yourself, be something different than what's on offer (only one you) and this whole nonsense about "going rates" just doesn't ring try unless of course you're a gig pig who does something that anyone else can do.

You have guys like Toby and Benny who very much have their own style and from their work photos/forum postings matches their personality who command decent fees. Client knows what they're about and most importantly will stand out head and shoulders above others.

Imagine you wanted to go for a service for your car and you look online. Everyone has the same "look", mention how great their spanners are and the fact your battered old mini is going to run like a Ferrari afterwards then you are going to come down to price aren't you. Unless of course you happen to come across a mini specialist or something about their service which appeals to you.....

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I've just read through all of the comments on this and it's very interesting.
What am I worth? Tough question and one that I can't answer really.
It's not always about the equipment in my opinion. It is about YOU and your experience and how you do what you do. People aren't paying for my lighting or sound rig, they are paying for my experience and my time.
Most customers (in my experience) aren't too interested in the quality of the equipment. They just want you to be good at what you do.

I haven't had many instances where someone has been bothered about the equipment and if I have ever been asked it has either been because (for example) a friend of the Groom is or was a DJ and has told the Groom to ask those questions or like the other week, a customer was interested in the lighting effects.

I still use LED effects. I still have LED moonflowers too and I haven't updated my lighting for over a year now. I have moving heads but I hardly ever use them. They are there if I need them. In fact I have tons of lighting effects now. I've kept stuff rather than chucking it because something will always come in handy.

I don't list my prices. I never have because sometimes prices can instantly put a customer off if their budget doesn't stretch. Ok, some may be put off if there isn't a price listed but I'm busy enough. My conversion rate is very good with a high percentage when I look at the enquiries I get. For example - If I got 10 enquiries in a week I will confirm around 6 - 7 of those and my prices are not low end and not high. I wouldn't label myself as middle priced either because I know that's not the case but then again if you look at it from a customers point of view then I may be towards the higher end.

Most of the time my prices will increase with add-on's and I will discount those additional services (like Uplighting) and still come away with a very good price.
Like I said though, it is down to the service and one of the things that pops up from customers when they confirm with me is that they really like the fact that I am very request friendly. I promote that fact and customers like it. I think it is important.
I'm not a gear snob either. Just because I may have (for example) a pair of RCF subs that cost the same amount as a cheap car doesn't mean that I am any better than anyone else out there.

I know a guy who does some sound engineering for local bands. He has a pro sound set up and normally I would look at that and write it off. He somehow makes it sound pretty decent. He goes out for £60.00 (his name isn't Sid unfortunately) for 4 hours. I know I could do the exact same thing if I wanted to but it doesn't interest me. It is not good business. Yes, I could be out 3 or 4 nights a week for £100.00 a time and be 'busy'.....that's not using your head is it? Let's say those 4 nights equate to around 20 hours work at the least (without travel, music purchase, set up times and admin), well....it's easy to see isn't it that if you are a full timer or even part timer, it is not worth it.

Going back to experience and my time for a second - I have a number of customers that do repeat bookings. They are not hotels, they are customers who I have worked for before who like the way I do what I do. They don't bat an eyelid at pricing and they are good payers. In August I have a booking where it means I will be travelling down to Devon. It is a Friday booking and I have had to write the Saturday off. They are putting me up in the hotel for the night, feeding me too and I will be paid my first ever 4 figure sum for doing it. It is the customers 60th birthday but they've booked me a few times in the past and want me to DJ for their special night (husband and wife share the same birthday believe it or not). They aren't paying for the equipment, they are paying for me and my experience.

This is one of those topics that could go on for ages and I've probably missed the point totally. Sometimes these topics confuse me slightly if I am honest so apologies if I have missed the point.

[dicky]

The singing waiters aren't cheap. I've worked with them before a couple of time.



Before I chuck in my thought, just one question: did the DJ pay you or did the client pay you directly?


When I got the call on Saturday I was told by the DJ that the fee was £200 - well actually it was one of the first three questions I asked.

He told me I would be paid on the night by the groom.

Just as I was leaving to set up I got a call from the DJ again to say that the customer had pointed out he had paid a £50 deposit on booking 12 months ago and that I was to collect £150 on the night and he will pay me the balance of £50

On arrival the groom payed me £150 even before I had set up, he had the correct cash in his hand ready. It had already been explained to him that there was a last minute change of discos, and he had been told that my rig was as large as the one he originally booked, if not larger. This was a mature couple, and I was told many of the guests worked at a factory somewhere (think was to do with food, as Shropshire is rather rural)

So it all seems fairly straight forward.

He did mention at some point in the night though that he had known the other DJ for many years........ He also said he was happy with my replacement setup, a great night he said and certainly the happy couple did dance quite a lot.

Actually I need to go and pick up the balance ;)

When chatting with the venue manager on Saunday she asked me how much I charged. I said the wedding the night before was £200. She replied that 'most of them (other DJs) charge £180' - my reply being 'well anything is negotiable but as this is a very large setup it would ideally be £200 really'

I can imagine what you have in mind Benny and I don't think anything underhand went on but who knows for sure.

[Andy P]

I would add into the mix that some of you seem to travel quite a way to gigs which is time and petrol/diesel

Most of my gigs recently have hardly been more than 20 miles or a £5 in the tank.

My combined mileage this weekend was 40.

[Andy P]

My attitude is you really can’t afford to have a party then - but you're very lucky that there are cheap DJs out there who undercharge.

Whilst i've valued much of what you have said thist irks me somewhat. Its a very arrogant stance and I too am glad there are DJs out there who are happy to work for a similar price to me. Not everyone is loaded, not everyone needs a £500 DJ behind the decks. People need entertained and to relax after a week at work. I know bands that go out for less than £500 and do a damn good job.

many moons ago I used to drink in a club and the best DJ i've ever hear (when we look at a person alone and no kit) was doing the job for beer money and love.

[Nakatomi]

I think I'm taking away from this thread that you can charge whatever you like. Whether you are worth that is all in the eyes of the customer.

I don't want to make zillions from being a DJ. I probably couldn't anyway because I want to remain part time & my weekend daytimes are important to me right now while my kids are still so young. That & my level of experience. Yes the first time I played music in public was over 25 years ago, but I had a 'holiday' of over ten years & even then most of my experience isn't of private parties let alone weddings. My attitude absolutely stunk at times back then. It took a few lessons to put me right on a few scores. I hope I've become much wiser since then. I still drop too many clangers for my own liking, maybe that's normal but I'm acutely aware of my limitations & strive to improve.

So what am I actually worth? Well, more than my compatriots are getting for merely showing up & plugging their laptop in, not responding to the crowd or ever getting on the mic for , I think. How much more? Time will tell.

[DazzyD]

If I am correct that was from a client making ‘steps’ towards her wedding which was televised – although the DJ requested autonomity ;-)

From market research, via a third party, I am also aware you offer discounts to EVERY enquiry ?
As mentioned before – it would be nice to have an HONEST perception of the market.

The enquiry was in about 2009-2010 so it could have been anyone. Like I said, I never found out who it was for - client confidentiallity and all that!

As for your "market research", how recent was this? I've had no general enquiries for some time and all the gigs I've done over the last year have been for people that I know. Since I started having problems with my joints, I've scaled things back an awful lot. My arthritis still isn't under control and I'm now on an even more aggressive treatment than before. In fact, I've only had 3 bookings in this year already with just 2 more to come.

As for "discounting" EVERY enquiry, that wouldn't be the case. Now, making prospective clients believe they are getting a good deal in these times of austerity - now that's a different matter! Like I've always said, I've come from a background in sales and it's all about client perception! ;)

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I rarely travel over 15 miles for bookings. In my own town there are plenty of DJ's around and I know a number of them and network with some of the better known and respected multi-ops wherever possible. I get a pretty decent rate even at my residencies because I add on *exclusive* discounts on additional services which take no time at all to set up in reality. It gives the customer a decent deal and it up's my price.
If you drive 10 minutes in either direction out of my town the customers don't bat an eyelid at the price I charge.

I wouldn't normally travel 100+ miles each way for a booking. It's just not something that interests me even if the money was good but I do it if I have been specifically requested. I won't do London gigs anymore either unless they are well paid because it ends up being a very long day so the money needs to entice me to do that.
I don't want to contradict myself because I said it's not always about the money but that's true. If I had a whole weekend off and was offered a booking via networking in (for example) London then it would have to be worth my while doing it. Sometimes I'd rather work locally for a little bit less than miles away when in reality it works out the same but more work and hours are involved.

[Andy P]

I think what I've taken from this discussion is that people will charge what they feel they are worth - fine with that

Different people believe they have different values and reasons for charging this - fine with that

Some people are basing this on bills to pay, some people are more about extra in the hip pocket - fine with that

Most people on the boards aren't really in competition with each other and are willing to help others get work etc.

A good few years ago I worked on a chemical plant as a fireman, my job was to save lives and I worked all sorts of shifts and was highly skilled. I made nowhere near £500 per shift. I find it difficult to match what I do now to this and because of this, a twitch of nobility and not having huge overheads cannot see me charging even half of this any time soon. I will endeavour to improve as a DJ and upgrade the kit and offer what I feel is an affordable and value for money service.

[funkymook]

Whilst i've valued much of what you have said thist irks me somewhat. Its a very arrogant stance and I too am glad there are DJs out there who are happy to work for a similar price to me. Not everyone is loaded, not everyone needs a £500 DJ behind the decks. People need entertained and to relax after a week at work. I know bands that go out for less than £500 and do a damn good job.

many moons ago I used to drink in a club and the best DJ i've ever hear (when we look at a person alone and no kit) was doing the job for beer money and love.

It was supposed to be a bit controversial.

I see people asking for cheap DJs all the time because they’ve spent their budget on the venue, food, flowers, drink, a cake, photobooth etc. They’re willing to spend it on everything but the DJ, the person who makes or breaks the party. And then DJs constantly moan about how little they’re paid in relation to other services yet they still ask for a pittance for what they do.

I just don’t believe that anyone who professes to be running a business wouldn’t welcome a higher fee if they could get it, if someone wants to do it as a hobby and aren’t concerned about profits and want to go out at a loss, less than minimum wage, or break even then that’s fine as well - but hobbyists need to realise they are not looking at it the same way a professional does, a professional knows what they need to earn to make a living wage and asks for it. Or are we saying that a DJ shouldn’t make a living wage from playing music?

This of course has nothing at all to do with the DJs ability, equipment etc.

[Excalibur]

It was supposed to be a bit controversial.

Or are we saying that a DJ shouldn’t make a living wage from playing music?

.

OK, let's go for more controversy then. Should a DJ expect to make a living wage from only working Friday and Saturday each week? :confused:

[Benny Smyth]

OK, let's go for more controversy then. Should a DJ expect to make a living wage from only working Friday and Saturday each week? :confused:

Show me a DJ who only works on the days he's performing. :p

[surround sounds]

OK, let's go for more controversy then. Should a DJ expect to make a living wage from only working Friday and Saturday each week? :confused:

I think yes because to me its not just Fri and Saturdays. Sundays and Thursdays are getting more popular and the other days I am updating my websites / SEO, Music etc. So overall I am doing more hours than a average full time person would do.

[ukpartydj]

I think I've probably mentioned it in one thread or the other before but I think a lot about pricing is if the client relates to you and if they like you.

I find it quite interesting how all the people that book me are in some ways like me or my type of people! When I do client meetings it becomes even clearer, quite often I have loads in common with these people and how on earth would they have known? It fascinates me!

So I guess if you want to earn more without upgrading anything you need to become somebody who gets along well with richer people. A club DJ once told me a similar thing whilst he was bragging about being on a boat in ibiza with a very well known girl group "if you want to be at this level you need to act like you belong there" ... I just thought you're a :Censored: but I still learnt something!

[dicky]

OK, let's go for more controversy then. Should a DJ expect to make a living wage from only working Friday and Saturday each week? :confused:

Why not? I think there are professions who make far more than a living wage for working far less hours than that. Some politicians come to mind for some reason :rolleyes:

Really though I thoroughly admire anyone who makes a living solely from mobile DJing

Personally it's neither a full time or a hobby - it's about finding an extra income to support my admittedly expensive hobbies (classic cars and taking plenty of holidays abroad) whilst doing something i always loved doing. Does that make me a proffesional DJ? Probably not - isn't the definition of professional = doing something to make a living? Maybe I am semi-professional then, ie doing it to make some money.

But doing it as a job? I think that's a massive challenge. So yes if you can make a living from working just Fridays and Saturday nights then hat's off to you - you deserve it.

[Shaun]

OK, let's go for more controversy then. Should a DJ expect to make a living wage from only working Friday and Saturday each week? :confused:

To the uninformed public that might stumble across this thread, that comment implies that we just turn up and play without all the additional work that goes along with running a business. If only all that was involved was a case of just turning up and playing at the weekend I'd be able to take up a hobby. :P

[Excalibur]

OK, let's go for more controversy then. Should a DJ expect to make a living wage from only working Friday and Saturday each week? :confused:




To the uniformed public that might stumble across this thread, that comment implies that we just turn up and play without all the additional work that goes along with running a business. If only all that was involved was a case of just turning up and playing at the weekend I'd be able to take up a hobby. :P

Point of order, Mr Chairman: I don't believe I implied anything of the sort. I merely asked a question. Whether the premise my question is based on is correct, well obviously it isn't. I never said it was. ;)

OK, I've raised controversy with a loaded question, let's see if I can give some serious and accurate answers.


Show me a DJ who only works on the days he's performing. :p I'd qualify that statement by adding one word.
Show me a professional DJ who only works on the days he's performing. By professional, I mean someone who applies himself to the task in a professional and businesslike manner, not one whose income depends solely on that means.

There's the thing, we all know how much effort can go into doing this job properly. Maintaining kit, sourcing music ( although nowadays, that's not the labour it once was ), paperwork, advertising, giving quotes, site visits, client meetings and all manner of associated tasks. Neither do we simply work for the four odd hours pressing play, there's travelling, rigging and derigging to consider. A hundred mile trip home on the motorway in pouring rain at two in the morning is the less glamorous side of the game, and just another one clients rarely see or consider.

That side of it is the aspect we have to convey to clients, that we actually invest our time, energy and enthusiasm into their function. That's why our fees are what they are, and are entirely reasonable. When that five hour wedding disco has actually entailed possibly between twelve and twenty hours work, well suddenly £500 doesn't seem all that far fetched, does it?

All we have to do is show the customers that. Sounds simple doesn't it? :)

[ukpartydj]

I've recently had over £10k worth of work done on my house and this is the rates we got from suppliers:

£100 per day labour for plasterer (all materials excluded) 6 days work.
£200 for one day for a builder (majority of materials excluded).
£160 per day for plumber (materials excluded) although I decided to do it myself after they never turned up (quote was for 3 days work).
£250 per day for electrician (wires and sockets included) 10 days work.

Night rates when I worked at sainsburys were about 30% more than day rates and I think tesco was 40% more so... is it that unreasonable to charge the prices we're talking about?

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I class myself as a professional DJ (rightly or wrongly) and yes, most of the time the physical work of actually going out and doing the job is mainly on Friday's and Saturday's and yes, I can survive on just working those 2 days if I had to but it isn't just about going out and doing the job of playing the music. There is everything else involved which has already been mentioned. Add to that there are lots of Sunday bookings and also midweek now and then. I can be working 4 nights or 1 night and it all evens out in the end and is more than enough to be able to survive.....well, better than that. Survive makes it sound like you're scraping by and that's not (my) the case.

[yourdj]

So I guess if you want to earn more without upgrading anything you need to become somebody who gets along well with richer people.

Thats an interesting philosophy. There is having money and there is being rich (financially and spiritually) - some people cannot distinguish the difference. Being an ex boat party and club promoter there are some real muppets out their who have the cash and no self respect or culture at all. Being social animals we lean and adapt from those we are around and from experience ego driven "rich people" are not great role models to spend time with. Depends what you want from life I guess? ;)

Watching this a few years back was good. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_%28book%29 I have moved on to much more "speculative" things now (lets leave it there), but I do think there is something in commanding your own destiny (cosmic ordering), the hard part is believing it: This may be a bit deep for 0.730am, but but not too long ago I was in 11k debt, but i adopted a different attitude to money and life in general after ditching my pain ex girlfriend.

I found the less cheap i was about things and the more generous the more money I have earnt & saved. Yesterday for example I spent £20 on a tea and a coffee, but was rewarded with table service and three hours of uninterrupted work in some very nice surroundings (I actually got it for free, but was prepared to pay that). Someone with a different mindset may say "i could have made you that at my house and charged you a £1, but more often than not they are looking at the money and missing the point. I am not rich but I often find myself mixing with some of the richest people (also nice people) in my area and being thought of as an equal, which sometimes is quite nice when looking back to my formal self as i am better off financially (e.g. don't have to wonder where the mortgage is coming from) but most importantly happy with myself, which has worked wonders with the relationships with my clients and at wedding events.

Going back to pricing - more often than not they will spend the money on something else, like a cake and its not my place to judge that decision, but I don't want to be the undervalued supplier who is there as an after thought. On the other hand people do have tight budgets and there are other good DJ's who will supply that market. Again its not my place to judge them either. All that matters is that i get enough work to live and my clients are over delivered on their expectations of me. :)

[mattydj50]

To the uniformed public that might stumble across this thread, that comment implies that we just turn up and play without all the additional work that goes along with running a business. If only all that was involved was a case of just turning up and playing at the weekend I'd be able to take up a hobby. :P

Uniformed. Do you mean police, soldier, sailor, postman, traffic warden, professional spell checker......

In a similar vein, professional footballers then only work one day a week, in fact, only 90 minutes a day,(Steven Gerrard sometimes a bit less), but they get paid a lot more than we do.

[Shaun]

Uninformed. Do you mean police, soldier, sailor, postman, traffic warden, professional spell checker......



No idea what you're on about? :d :d

[Benny Smyth]

In a similar vein, professional footballers then only work one day a week, in fact, only 90 minutes a day,(Steven Gerrard sometimes a bit less), but they get paid a lot more than we do.

Bad example. How many times have you heard someone say that a pro footballer's pay is justified? :lol:

[yourdj]

£100 per day labour for plasterer (all materials excluded) 6 days work.
£200 for one day for a builder (majority of materials excluded).
£160 per day for plumber (materials excluded) although I decided to do it myself after they never turned up (quote was for 3 days work).
£250 per day for electrician (wires and sockets included) 10 days work.


I often reflect on how lucky I am when i look at hotel staff slogging their guts out for minimum wage. We waltz in and earn what in some instance may be a months salary over a weekend! Skilled trades get work 7 days a week, which is one reason entertainers get more in a shorter period. Ours is limited to the weekend mainly with a maximum attainable hourly work load of 3 gigs - 15 hours (on average) - £375 a week is not a great wage. Different sort of thing really. Got the builders in at the moment so was thinking about that earlier. The norm for trades (even graphic designers) is about £20-30 an hour and usually includes a slower pace of work. Magicians, singers or what ever are priced at a higher rate as it is not sustainable to do it all day (although we can do it).

[mattydj50]

Bad example. How many times have you heard someone say that a pro footballer's pay is justified?

I'd willingly do what they to for half as much, nay a quarter. No, twice as much for an eighth of the pay. And eat a handful of hot gravel.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I'd willingly do what they to for half as much, nay a quarter. No, twice as much for an eighth of the pay. And eat a handful of hot gravel.

But could you do the same job they do? No. So lets put the whole anti football postings to one side as it literally has nothing to do with us.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I often reflect on how lucky I am when i look at hotel staff slogging their guts out for minimum wage. We waltz in and earn what in some instance may be a months salary over a weekend! Skilled trades get work 7 days a week, which is one reason entertainers get more in a shorter period. Ours is limited to the weekend mainly with a maximum attainable hourly work load of 3 gigs - 15 hours (on average) - £375 a week is not a great wage. Different sort of thing really.

I know where you're coming from Toby and I've said something similiar a number of times in the past when the 'usual' conversations pop up between friends or people that casually ask you what you do for a living.
I would not call it LUCK at all though. Where's the luck in it? It's the path you chose to go down and go self employed and take the risks. Someone working more hours than we do in a (for example) Pound Stretcher type shop may well take a month to earn what you, I or anyone else on here earns over a weekend but that's their choice to do that. Even if it isn't their choice because they have no choice and it's a job then they could still (just like many of us) go self employed doing something that they're good at.

I'm a firm believer in that everyone is good at something so why not channel that in to a business and earn from doing what you're good at?
I have a friend who has been working for the same double glazing firm for around 30 years. He works in a factory and does 40+ hours per week. He hates the job, he always has but it's safe for him and secure. The reason I mention him is because we have had 100's of chats over the years, especially since I went self employed and have made it work. He is a very talented graphic designer and illustrator both in still and moving images. I've almost pleaded with him at times to just think about it if he isn't happy doing what he's doing. We're only here just the once. He is single and has no children but what's the point of being miserable for 30+ years. He won't even consider it. I have another friend who asked him to do some designs for a pub menu once. He earnt good money out of it so it was a taster (pardon the pun) of what could lie ahead for him but he won't consider it. He doesn't like the idea of having to get his own work and I guess that's fair play. So, I wouldn't say it's luck Toby because he and millions of others choose to do what they do.

I was chatting to someone at a Christmas party about 3 years ago whilst the background music was playing. He was a guy in his mid-20's at a guess and he said to me "I do a bit of DJing myself". We had quite an interesting conversation actually because it turned out that the only place he ever DJ'd was in his bedroom. He told me that he'd love to do it full time and that he was a Drum & Bass DJ and also said that there were far too many of them about. Anyway, I remember him saying something like "I bet you're coining in, easy money isn't it?" He asked me what I was on per night and I told him and his eyes lit up even though what I was getting was probably half of what I would get for a private function elsewhere. Once I had explained everything that goes in to doing what we do (I won't list it all as we all know already) he looked a bit disappointed. I then asked what he did and he told me worked in a call centre for a big pensions company. I asked him "Do you enjoy it?" His answer was "No, I hate it but it's a job with decent money and pays the bills". That's the way it is. Each to their own etc. Like I said, I've said something similiar in the past. I think I thought of myself as 'fortunate' to be doing what I am doing but I don't think that at all now. Why should I? I am actually quite proud of what I have done and I like the way that when someone books me it's because I am doing things right and I like the positive feedback afterwards. It's all down to me and nobody else and I never thought I would ever be working for myself....ever.

My brother is self employed. For the past 3 years he has been travelling up to London everyday to work on the terminals at Heathrow as he specialises in suspended ceilings. He leaves at stupid o'clock in the morning and gets back around 7.00pm every evening, 5 days a week. The money is silly money in my opinion but saying that means I am kind of contradicting myself because he is a skilled worker. One of my sisters runs her own tea room. She is doing very well and has won a number of awards in her first year in business. She is a classic example (just like my mate who does the graphics) of someone who I expected to just moan about their job for the rest of her life but no, she hasn't. She's gone for it and she's doing very well. She works harder than me as does my wife who does 12 hour days most of the time running her Bridal Wear business (designing and selling, not buying in and selling).

Again, I've probably gone off on one again so apologies. Lastly, Toby you mentioned £375.00 isn't a great wage and I'd agree if you've worked say 40 hours on a building site in all kinds of weather conditions but if you are single, have hardly any bills and are a self employed DJ and have just the one booking that week which is paying £375.00 then it's half decent. Get 2 bookings at that price and it looks better. Get 3 and you're starting to get somewhere.

[DazzyD]

But could you do the same job they do? No. So lets put the whole anti football postings to one side as it literally has nothing to do with us.

And, besides, contrary to popular belief, footballers don't just work on a Saturday. They're at the training ground most days of the week practising their trade. And it's this trade they've honed through pretty much all of their lives. I'd never blame the footballers for what they earn. If somebody offered us £50k a week for doing what we love doing, would any of us say no out of principle?

[Nakatomi]

I think there is sometimes an element of luck involved in moving along in life. How many times have you heard the phrase 'I was in the right place at the right time' ? That was how I caught my first break into club DJing. The gig literally landed in my lap because I knew somebody & he'd already phoned other people who couldn't make it.

There was no luck involved in keeping the gig though, but it got my foot in the door. Right place, right time :-)

Opportunities can come along at any time. Be bold enough to take them on & who knows where they could lead. But don't on any account wait for them. That's a fool's game

[yourdj]

Toby you mentioned £375.00 isn't a great wage and I'd agree if you've worked say 40 hours on a building site in all kinds of weather conditions but if you are single, have hardly any bills and are a self employed DJ and have just the one booking that week which is paying £375.00 then it's half decent. Get 2 bookings at that price and it looks better. Get 3 and you're starting to get somewhere.

Thats what I meant £25 x 15 hours (3 nights a week): £375. Not 3 bookings at that rate. i was comparing it too a skilled labour wage. :)

I charge my residency £375 and have been doing most of the weddings for a few years. It's a respectable wage, but I have to concentrate on my private work more now as its about 15-20% more income. I would say £700 a week gross is not bad for the above sort of person. Depends where you live, but everything is so much more expensive since the recession (ironic that isn't it) :)

[ukpartydj]

And, besides, contrary to popular belief, footballers don't just work on a Saturday. They're at the training ground most days of the week practising their trade. And it's this trade they've honed through pretty much all of their lives. I'd never blame the footballers for what they earn. If somebody offered us £50k a week for doing what we love doing, would any of us say no out of principle?

I think the HUGE factor in why they are paid so much is quite simple - not a lot of people really want to do it!
Even good footballers have more people that "hate" them than like them ... you can only play for one team - and all the other teams supporters will hate you if you do you're job well.

If you want that sort of life then maybe you deserve the money!

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

OK, let's go for more controversy then. Should a DJ expect to make a living wage from only working Friday and Saturday each week? :confused:

Going out DJing is the tip of the iceberg for me. I spend anything from 30-60 hours in my office running my business.

[Solitaire Events Ltd]

But could you do the same job they do? No. So lets put the whole anti football postings to one side as it literally has nothing to do with us.

I agree and people that play football have been training from probably age 5 or 6 to get where they are.

[rth_discos]

And, besides, contrary to popular belief, footballers don't just work on a Saturday. They're at the training ground most days of the week practising their trade. And it's this trade they've honed through pretty much all of their lives. I'd never blame the footballers for what they earn. If somebody offered us £50k a week for doing what we love doing, would any of us say no out of principle?

Not only that, but they also have to follow a very strict diet. Let's not forget that they often train on Christmas Day, as they play on Boxing Day, so it's not quite the "turn up on a Saturday and party the rest of the week" lifestyle that the papers make it look!

On that note, it is those who do just "turn up" who tend to not do as well. It's those who add in the hours "behind the scenes" who make a greater success and therefore can command a better fee.


I've recently had over £10k worth of work done on my house and this is the rates we got from suppliers:

£100 per day labour for plasterer (all materials excluded) 6 days work.
£200 for one day for a builder (majority of materials excluded).
£160 per day for plumber (materials excluded) although I decided to do it myself after they never turned up (quote was for 3 days work).
£250 per day for electrician (wires and sockets included) 10 days work.

Night rates when I worked at sainsburys were about 30% more than day rates and I think tesco was 40% more so... is it that unreasonable to charge the prices we're talking about?

I am surprised you got a plumber for £160 a day - that' s a sixty quid Sid... actually, no surprise he didn't turn up...

Plumbers are *very* in demand and can pretty much name their price.


IThe norm for trades (even graphic designers) is about £20-30 an hour and usually includes a slower pace of work. .

Being a trade I am involved with, whilst there are many working at that rate, the going rate for a half decent designer is around £45-£50 an hour.

And that's before you get to the really good ones who command a *much* higher fee.

[yourdj]

Being a trade I am involved with, whilst there are many working at that rate, the going rate for a half decent designer is around £45-£50 an hour.

And that's before you get to the really good ones who command a *much* higher fee.

Thats good then as they have a skilled trade that does not take too long to make the goods if its a flyer for example.
One hour with a decent brief, then they are on the average mobile DJ wage - now we are getting somewhere.
So would a better designer charge double and a very good designer charger quadruple. Sounds like our industry. :)

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

As far as I know there is no-one in the immediate area commanding that sort of fee for a evening disco - some are close, but not quite there, and those that are close ( and being their only income), that I know, do not make what I would call a ‘good’ living out of it.

I won’t get drawn into the area argument, but you have to consider that as one example, a hotel chain in the area pays their resident DJ £175 whereas in a different area, that same chain pays £450 – even though the hotel in this area is (supposedly) far superior. Also the only 5 star hotel in the area pays £170. I know this is not directly related but hopefully puts into perspective.

Now, a few year ago I got drawn into this ‘you can charge what you like’ way of thinking – and it nearly finished me. What I do now is look at what I make a week/month/year. I don’t look too much into a per booking basis or doing as little work as possible, instead I have set a target of making £950 a week and built my business around that. Some weeks I make more, others I don’t hit target – but then look at what I could have done.

I am not saying it is not possible – I have a few very nice bookings in the diary, and my fee is not that short of the £500 mark, however I could in no way make a decent living out of doing those type of bookings alone. It is suprising also at the people who claim to make a living out of doing high end bookings, but have a lot of backing already – wives with good wages, redundancy, other interests, a really good residency etc.

To make the money, in my eyes, you have to offer other services and find yourself a niche in the market. More importantly, once you have found that service or niche, you have to move quickly before the market gets saturated – just look at the £200 starlit floors, £150 LOVE letters, £80 Starcloths etc all good in their day, but short lived.

Obviously I am full time, so can’t take the risk. If you don’t rely on the money you probably could pitch at that level, with experience, and maybe grab a booking a month or so, which would be great, however (sorry to sound negative) those charging near that fee round here ‘jump through hoops’ and dedicate a lot of time to every bride and groom, something I think would be difficult on a part-time basis. Even I openly admit I do not put half the work a lot in a similar price bracket do, as I just don’t have the time to dedicate.

Your figure of £500 a booking I don’t think has been achieved in this area yet – but £52k a year is achievable, just not by doing evening only discos

If you're full time then it's a different dynamic as you NEED to clear £x and so working more for less but bringing in a higher gross over all makes business sense.

I've no inclination to work all week then be out 2-3 times a weekend. In fact I try to work it so I'm not out on consecutive weekends which means that I can jump through hoops for my bride and grooms and charge accordingly. Part of my sales pitch is that I do low volume, high quality work so they know they're not just going to be a random name that drops into my inbox when they need something from me.

I also see no reason why someone wouldn't be pulling in £500 bookings round your way. Without turning this into a willy waving contest, I've just booked a Monday night wedding 20 minutes away with a client meet I could walk to for the back end of the Summer and it'll pay my mortgage for that month... That's not coming from going to any seminars, throwing in freebies or being particularly savvy, it's just down to hard work, graft and selling not myself, but my worth to the clients.

EDIT: Forgot the whole point of my post.

Basically I'm trying to say that don't pigeon hole yourself mentally - see if you're happy operating at the level you are then there's no need to worry about other folk who are higher up the money and type of gig ladder. If you do want an extra bit of that pie, you're much better served being pro-active and asking "what can I do to charge X" instead of thinking "Guy Y talks :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored:" of course there's a lot of bull:Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored:ting out there but if you automatically assume that "these guys can't be doing that" or "I couldn't get myself to that stage" then you're done before you've kicked a ball.

[ukpartydj]

I am surprised you got a plumber for £160 a day - that' s a sixty quid Sid... actually, no surprise he didn't turn up...

Plumbers are *very* in demand and can pretty much name their price

Not sure if it matters due to location etc but I actually enquired with 3 Plumbers and 2 were no shows and the other never got back to me. The 2 that did quote were on checkatrade to!
Not being funny and I may be a bit hypocritical here but plumbing isn't all that hard, I installed 2 Radiators flushed the system ran new hot and cold pipes for shower chased into the wall installed new bathroom suite and water and waste for washing machine in a shed like thing we have and It all works which is better than the gas pipe I asked a plumber to reroute for £120 he spent 2 hours in my house, I provided the copper and I had to call him back because it leaked... In 3 places after he tested it again. Both the prices I got for bathroom were £160ish per day though and I didn't choose cheap looking suppliers :daft:

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Not sure if it matters due to location etc but I actually enquired with 3 Plumbers and 2 were no shows and the other never got back to me. The 2 that did quote were on checkatrade to!
Not being funny and I may be a bit hypocritical here but plumbing isn't all that hard, I installed 2 Radiators flushed the system ran new hot and cold pipes for shower chased into the wall installed new bathroom suite and water and waste for washing machine in a shed like thing we have and It all works which is better than the gas pipe I asked a plumber to reroute for £120 he spent 2 hours in my house, I provided the copper and I had to call him back because it leaked... In 3 places after he tested it again. Both the prices I got for bathroom were £160ish per day though and I didn't choose cheap looking suppliers :daft:

Lol I've just finished tiling my kitchen which turned out pretty nice. Not 100% pro by any means but I did a serviceable job.

Fixed a leak today too but that was a total bodge if I'm honest :daft:

There's nothing stopping any half wit going to town with a tile cutter and some adhesive or pressing a couple of buttons to make tunes come out of a PA but there's a real difference between you're really good plumbers and your half arsers just like there is with your good DJs.

[ukpartydj]

There's nothing stopping any half wit going to town with a tile cutter and some adhesive or pressing a couple of buttons to make tunes come out of a PA but there's a real difference between you're really good plumbers and your half arsers just like there is with your good DJs.

I'm sure I'm being hypocritical and probably just bitter from my experiences. Much like I dislike taxi drivers for driving stupidly and tailgating anyway I digress!

This thread gas really got me thinking about things I can do to improve and therefore charge for so I apologise in advance if there is a steam of new threads from me in the near future with more questions!

[Benny Smyth]

And, besides, contrary to popular belief, footballers don't just work on a Saturday. They're at the training ground most days of the week practising their trade.

Paul McGrath. The guy's knees were so knackered that when he played for the Villa, he only turned up on match days (at least that was the legend I was told when I was a kid).


Basically I'm trying to say that don't pigeon hole yourself mentally - see if you're happy operating at the level you are then there's no need to worry about other folk who are higher up the money and type of gig ladder. If you do want an extra bit of that pie, you're much better served being pro-active and asking "what can I do to charge X" instead of thinking "Guy Y talks :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored:" of course there's a lot of bull:Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored:ting out there but if you automatically assume that "these guys can't be doing that" or "I couldn't get myself to that stage" then you're done before you've kicked a ball.

:agree:

[yourdj]

This thread gas really got me thinking about things I can do to improve and therefore charge for so I apologise in advance if there is a steam of new threads from me in the near future with more questions!

You have venues like the Italian Villa and Parley so I don't see why not? Bournemouth is a strange place isn't it? Never get anything there - Southampton too. The hardest part is marketing it and proving your worth. I find being transparent with prices gets rid of 70% of people "on a budget" (despite going on honeymoon to the Seyshells). After all you don't want to waste their time and they don't want to waste yours. :)

[funkymook]

My general impression is that the DJs in this thread that are going out at low to medium rates could and should be charging more without changing anything they do, apart from perhaps fine tuning how they respond to enquiries, they’re already offering good customer service and have suitable sound and lighting.

Those of us who know this (because we’ve been there ourselves and have the benefit of hindsight) try every trick in the book to get this message across - arguing, praising, advising, challenging, real life examples etc etc, and I can guarantee once you get it you’ll look back and think ‘should’ve done that sooner’.

I’ve said this before - but if you honestly think you’re worth more than you’re currently charging then test the waters with any enquiries that are more than 6 months away and quote £50 or £100 more than you charge now, plenty of time for other enquires if they don’t book you.

[Imagine]

I’ve said this before - but if you honestly think you’re worth more than you’re currently charging then test the waters with any enquiries that are more than 6 months away and quote £50 or £100 more than you charge now, plenty of time for other enquires if they don’t book you.

Funny you should say that Martin......I've just quoted £150 over my normal rate for a wedding next year. Mrs is going to talk to Mr this evening to confirm he's happy, but looks like a done deal :)

Going to have to try this more often :beer1:

[ukpartydj]

You have venues like the Italian Villa and Parley so I don't see why not? Bournemouth is a strange place isn't it? Never get anything there - Southampton too. The hardest part is marketing it and proving your worth. I find being transparent with prices gets rid of 70% of people "on a budget" (despite going on honeymoon to the Seyshells). After all you don't want to waste their time and they don't want to waste yours. :)

Indeed, I've done weddings at both! I may be wrong but I think perhaps wedding fayres will help me get more local and better fees. The gigs I get at those locations are midweek or Sundays... Not complaining at all but I assume mid week = less budget = look for cheaper DJ than the ones they've seen at wedding fayre maybe?

[Benny Smyth]

Not complaining at all but I assume mid week = less budget = look for cheaper DJ than the ones they've seen at wedding fayre maybe?

Just point out to them that regardless of the day of the week, the level of service, professionalism, experience and production values remain at a consistently high standard. :o

[yourdj]

Indeed, I've done weddings at both! I may be wrong but I think perhaps wedding fayres will help me get more local and better fees. The gigs I get at those locations are midweek or Sundays... Not complaining at all but I assume mid week = less budget = look for cheaper DJ than the ones they've seen at wedding fayre maybe?

I know I looked on your site ;)

Fayres are brilliant assuming that they are a: busy, b: attended by people who want quality entertainment c: you are presentable, know what your talking about and your breath does not stink ;). I find good venues attract this. We organise lots with my local wedding group, and there is no dougt that i get better bookings from the better venues. I am sat in the golf club now (builders being noisy), where we did one recently and not one person was interested in paying more than £200. I do it for the group really as being a member has other benefits.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I know I looked on your site ;)

Fayres are brilliant assuming that they are a: busy, b: attended by people who want quality entertainment c: you are presentable, know what your talking about and your breath does not stink ;). I find good venues attract this. We organise lots with my local wedding group, and there is no dougt that i get better bookings from the better venues. I am sat in the golf club now (builders being noisy), where we did one recently and not one person was interested in paying more than £200. I do it for the group really as being a member has other benefits.

I did my first one in years a few weeks back and this is where the Monday gig I mentioned came from.

I did offer a discount on fayre bookings and pulled my price down a bit because it's a Monday night but it's still a £300+ booking (and I'm worth every penny) :beer1:


I think funkymook has hit the nail right on the head, a lot of guys are scared to up their prices because they think they'll lose out. I don't go around worrying about the guys going out doing weddings for a couple of hundred quid for 2 reasons:

1st - If they're providing £200 worth of service then they're not the kind of folk I'm competing with client wise much as my favourite steak place isn't worrying about what the service is like at the McDonald's next door.

2nd - If they're providing more than £200 worth of service (and I'm assuming this is where most of you guys who are thinking about making the jump are...) all they're doing it shooting themselves in the foot by going out for less than the value they provide. I'm not going to let that affect how I operate or what I charge.

[Shakermaker Promotions]

What Martin has done is give very good advice.
This was something I did a few years ago. One of my friends mentioned it to me actually. He was round mine for a chat and we were talking about the industry and pricing etc. At the time the price I was charging was around the same as, as many of the other suppliers in my area. He asked the question "What makes you different from all of those that are all charging (for example) £350.00?". I went to on to list what I do and how I go about doing it and he said that it might be worth upping my price and to try it on the next enquiry that I got. I did try it and it didn't work at first but I stuck with it as he suggested (I didn't think it would work but it did) and after about 4 enquiries that I probably would have got if I hadn't increased my price, one of the enquiries went for it. And so did the next, and the one after that and so on...

One customer (a Bride to be) said that she'd sent out lots of emails for quotations and was amazed at the range of prices but also the number of suppliers that actually bothered to reply.
It was quite a mixed variety and I must say that when I started out self employed and did my local 'market research' and called and emailed a few local suppliers to get an idea of pricing, I experienced the same kind of thing.
This customer in particular said that it was the entertainment for her wedding day and it had to be right. She was particular about the music that she wanted and she really wanted input with the music.
I can't remember exactly what she said as it was a while back now but the jist of it was that one supplier may have got back to her with a short and sweet (for example) "I charge £300.00" - Well, what do you get for that £300.00? Is it £300.00 for an hour or all day?
Another supplier may have said something like "I charge £200.00" and given full information but she wrote it off as in her opinion it was "too cheap" for a wedding disco and therefore (in her mind rightly or wrongly) She assumed it wouldn't be that great and therefore wrote it off.

I think it's down to communication again and as Martin says, making sure the contact with the enquirer is as best as you can make it. I know we've had this subject many times but I think it's one of the most important things. We all know that one of the hardest things is to get an enquiry in the first place. If someone is going to call you or email you then that's great so why shouldn't you make sure you give them as much information as possible.
This particular customer ended up booking me even though I was more expensive at the time than others she'd been in contact with. She said that it was because I'd provided her with plenty of information on what she would get for her money and that also because I said I was 'request friendly' and I encouraged music input.
She also said that it ended up being a choice between me and one other supplier. We were both charging the same but my email was more informative and also the other supplier said that they would only accept a certain number of requests.

How many of us actually bother to reply to an enquiry when we have no availability for the date that they require?
I still do it and I ask them if they would like me to recommend anyone. Most of the time they will reply with a simple "Ok thanks" or "Thanks for getting back to me, shame you aren't available" but every now and then someone will appreciate the offer and I will network with another local supplier if I can't get cover myself. It is working well and the customer also remembers too.

So, going back to the "How much am I worth?" question...... My customer service and attention to detail is worth loads............to me!

[Excalibur]

I’ve said this before - but if you honestly think you’re worth more than you’re currently charging then test the waters with any enquiries that are more than 6 months away and quote £50 or £100 more than you charge now, plenty of time for other enquires if they don’t book you.
An interesting policy. I shall give it considerable thought.





I think funkymook has hit the nail right on the head, a lot of guys are scared to up their prices because they think they'll lose out.
Something I for one can ill afford to do.




I don't go around worrying about the guys going out doing weddings for a couple of hundred quid for 2 reasons:

1st - If they're providing £200 worth of service then they're not the kind of folk I'm competing with client wise much as my favourite steak place isn't worrying about what the service is like at the McDonald's next door.
They are the type of folk I'm competing with, though. :( I don't specialise, and I quote for all manner of gigs and budgets. Being £100 dearer than everybody else might not be an advantageous USP.


2nd - If they're providing more than £200 worth of service (and I'm assuming this is where most of you guys who are thinking about making the jump are...) all they're doing it shooting themselves in the foot by going out for less than the value they provide. I'm not going to let that affect how I operate or what I charge.
Or they're pitching their prices at what the market will bear. If I doubled my prices up, and halved my bookings, I'd be better off. If my bookings dropped by more than half..........................

[funkymook]

An interesting policy. I shall give it considerable thought.


Something I for one can ill afford to do.


They are the type of folk I'm competing with, though. :( I don't specialise, and I quote for all manner of gigs and budgets. Being £100 dearer than everybody else might not be an advantageous USP.


Or they're pitching their prices at what the market will bear. If I doubled my prices up, and halved my bookings, I'd be better off. If my bookings dropped by more than half..........................

You started well, then near enough talked yourself out of it by the end...

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

An interesting policy. I shall give it considerable thought.


Something I for one can ill afford to do.


They are the type of folk I'm competing with, though. :( I don't specialise, and I quote for all manner of gigs and budgets. Being £100 dearer than everybody else might not be an advantageous USP.


Or they're pitching their prices at what the market will bear. If I doubled my prices up, and halved my bookings, I'd be better off. If my bookings dropped by more than half..........................

The market can bare a massive range of prices though. Look at Easter eggs, you can get an Easter egg from 50p all the way up to £20+ quid and people will buy at every price point but as I said, it's a different dynamic doing it part time to doing it full time but the fact remains, there are people out there willing to pay a decent amount for what we do. There might be more who would rather pay less but I don't subscribe to this "you don't get that kind of money in my area" tripe.

Someone made a post on a forum a few weeks ago about how out in the big smoke like Glasgow and Stirling you might be able to get £X (I don't remember what X was but it wasn't a particularly large amount) but you wouldn't wherever he was from.

I made the point that considering the concentration of DJs, particularly in Glasgow and the Central Belt then competition and supply and demand economics dictates that prices would actually be naturally lower there but this person wasn't for having it choosing instead to believe that he lives in a part of the country where you cross in to some little bubble where people en masse all of a sudden decide they'd rather have cheap :Censored::Censored::Censored::Censored: than pay for quality especially when it pertains to their weddings and special birthdays.;)

[dicky]

I've replied on and read through this thread several times - and still can't get a head around it

Yes i totally agree with bidding £150-200 above my normal rate to see if I can get a regular flow of bookings at that price - to be honest that is a bit of a no-brainer

What I can't quite reconcile is this (if both facts are true)

martin aka funkymook
My general impression is that the DJs in this thread that are going out at low to medium rates could and should be charging more without changing anything they do, apart from perhaps fine tuning how they respond to enquiries, they’re already offering good customer service and have suitable sound and lighting.

ppentertainment
consider that as one example, a hotel chain in the area pays their resident DJ £175 whereas in a different area, that same chain pays £450 – even though the hotel in this area is (supposedly) far superior. Also the only 5 star hotel in the area pays £170.


Now let's consider both facts are true - then surely the only possible conclusion is too many DJs in area A (the £175 one) are willing to work for that price which makes it next too impossible for them to get the same fee for the same work as DJs in are B (£450) - or otherwise all the DJs in area A are not as good/don't have as good a rig as those in area B - unless anyone can come up with another reasonable explanation.

IMHO It would be very educational to enquire of the management of this hotel chain why this is the case - the worse case scenario is we don't get an answer. So who are they? And let's ask the question by email. Do we have anything to lose by doing so? I would suspect someone here has worked for this said hotel chain in various areas - let's compare fees then and why not to see if it is true and all learn something in the process, it sounds like the best concrete example that has been mentioned so far would you not agree? So who is the client chain?

Or maybe it's all just supposition and rumour?

Because so far though it is an interesting discussion I can't say I have seen any implementable suggestions to get my fees above £200 and still get bookings - apart from simply asking for more, AKA trying higher pricest o see if I can still get regulare bookings at that rate.

Rich

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I've replied on and read through this thread several times - and still can't get a head around it

Yes i totally agree with bidding £150-200 above my normal rate to see if I can get a regular flow of bookings at that price - to be honest that is a bit of a no-brainer

What I can't quite reconcile is this (if both facts are true)

martin aka funkymook
My general impression is that the DJs in this thread that are going out at low to medium rates could and should be charging more without changing anything they do, apart from perhaps fine tuning how they respond to enquiries, they’re already offering good customer service and have suitable sound and lighting.

ppentertainment
consider that as one example, a hotel chain in the area pays their resident DJ £175 whereas in a different area, that same chain pays £450 – even though the hotel in this area is (supposedly) far superior. Also the only 5 star hotel in the area pays £170.


Now let's consider both facts are true - then surely the only possible conclusion is too many DJs in area A (the £175 one) are willing to work for that price which makes it next too impossible for them to get the same fee for the same work as DJs in are B (£450) - or otherwise all the DJs in area A are not as good/don't have as good a rig as those in area B - unless anyone can come up with another reasonable explanation.

IMHO It would be very educational to enquire of the management of this hotel chain why this is the case - the worse case scenario is we don't get an answer. So who are they? And let's ask the question by email. Do we have anything to lose by doing so? I would suspect someone here has worked for this said hotel chain in various areas - let's compare fees then and why not to see if it is true and all learn something in the process, it sounds like the best concrete example that has been mentioned so far would you not agree? So who is the client chain?

Or maybe it's all just supposition and rumour?

Because so far though it is an interesting discussion I can't say I have seen any implementable suggestions to get my fees above £200 and still get bookings - apart from simply asking for more, AKA trying higher pricest o see if I can still get regulare bookings at that rate.

Rich

I hate abstract mumbo jumbo but it's about selling YOUR worth.

There's two factors really at play here:

1 - how much work do you want to have to do

and

2 - How much value can clients perceive in you.


Part 1 is easy: I work a reasonably stressful job and have no inclination to be out gigging every weeking ergo it makes more sense for me personally to do 2 or 3 £400+ gigs per month than 4 to 6 £200 ones.

If you want to be out 3 times a weekend then the £400+ clientele probably isn't your base much like the fancy steak restaurant isn't catering to the folk falling out of nightclubs at 3 in need of food and somewhere to take a pee.

Part 2 is trickier - If you can only provide £200 worth of perceived value to a client then quoting £250, 300, 400 or whatever is a non starter. You need to find out what your perceived value is (and it's generally not flashy lights and fancy speakers no one has ever heard of...) and then you can start showing clients why you cost £2X and the rest around you cost £X.

I won't go in to the ins and outs of it because for all I know one of them might be on here but a month or two ago I had a client try to haggle me on price for a wedding.

I'd quoted over £500, someone else had quoted £350, another had quoted £200ish and another £180.

She asked if I could bring my price down.

No - as soon as I do that another few things come in to play - 1 it puts her in a bargaining position, by saying no from the outset she either accepts the price or goes elsewhere. 2 (and some people don't agree with this but I fully believe it) lowering the price shows that my original quote wasn't indicative of my true value.

Is a telly you can get for a couple of hundred quid cheaper on black friday really worth the usual price? Probably not.

I explained what I could offer, why I was different, particularly to Mr £180 and £200ish and left th eball in her court and they came back and booked within hours...

If you CAN'T explain why you're different to Mr 180, 200, 350, 400 or whoever you're trying to out price than again, you're on to a non starter.

It's tough to explain how you get there but once you find it, you stick with it. Do I go out cheaper - yeah if someone throws agency work my way or a run of party nights where I turn up at half 7, play some tunes and disappear at Midnight then absolutely I'll do it but if you want the full Hilton experience, expect to pay Hlton prices.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

One last point before I go to bed:

A local DJ I'm pals with just mentioned on one of the facebook groups that he was at a wedding fayre on Sunday and someone came up to him saying he'd DJ'd at a friend's wedding and he'd been amazing particularly the rock mega mix he threw in at the end of the night as a "surprise" after Loch Lommond.

By now the penny dropped that they had the wrong DJ and when he asked the name he was duly informed that it was the one, the only, the clearly not handsome enough to differentiate himself from the other DJs in the village with specs and not a lot of hair - Scotland's Party DJ. :muppet:

Before he'd gone any further telling the story I could tell him who the couple were what the date was, the venue, their lighting scheme (red), where we'd met for their meeting, how the groom hated having his name misspelled a certain way, the fact I have a few cool souvenirs they gave me from the night hanging up in the office as keep sakes and although I could only throw out maybe half of the 15 or so songs they had asked me to mix together for their big finale, I have the full mix sitting on this laptop as we speak just incase they'd ever like to hear it again.


A lot of people think folk who go on about doing these high paying gigs are just blowing their own trumpet and so on but it's not really, THAT ^^^^ level of service, attention to detail and bond is what launches you way beyond the "alright mate, I'm 200 quid and I'll even wear a shirt and shoes!!!" to the point that those guys are nowhere near your competition.

[Benny Smyth]

She asked if I could bring my price down.

No - as soon as I do that another few things come in to play - 1 it puts her in a bargaining position, by saying no from the outset she either accepts the price or goes elsewhere. 2 (and some people don't agree with this but I fully believe it) lowering the price shows that my original quote wasn't indicative of my true value.

Another reason is that it is incredibly unfair to past and present clients who have paid the full fee if you go out and provide the exact same level of service, professionalism and production values to someone else at a cheaper rate. I often ask clients who try to haggle how they think they'd feel in that situation. I know I'd be incredibly cross if I was the full paying client.

[DJ Jules]

consider that as one example, a hotel chain in the area pays their resident DJ £175 whereas in a different area, that same chain pays £450 – even though the hotel in this area is (supposedly) far superior. Also the only 5 star hotel in the area pays £170

One thing to bear in mind about hotels - the amount they pay the DJ frequently has nothing to do with the amount they charge the customer. Hotels are like any other business, they will pay the minimum they can get away with and charge the maximum that the market will bear. In other words, just because the hotel is paying £175 to the DJ, doesn't mean the customer is only willing to pay that!! Sometimes being a "the resident DJ" for a hotel is a good place to be in, but in the majority of cases, being the recommended supplier is a much better place to be as it gives you direct control over both your pricing, and the relationship with the customer.

I regularly pick up wedding work at hotels where I know they have a resident, but the couple have chosen to go with me for reasons ranging from "the hotel said I couldn't meet the resident DJ before the night" to the much nicer "the hotel recommended you to us" or "xxx recommended you" or "we were at a wedding where you played and really want you". I also occasionally get "we had you recommended and you're cheaper than the hotel's DJ" - which is why I know that the hotel is charging the customer a lot more than they pay the DJ! :D

Julian

[Excalibur]

One thing to bear in mind about hotels - the amount they pay the DJ frequently has nothing to do with the amount they charge the customer. Hotels are like any other business, they will pay the minimum they can get away with and charge the maximum that the market will bear. In other words, just because the hotel is paying £175 to the DJ, doesn't mean the customer is only willing to pay that!! Sometimes being a "the resident DJ" for a hotel is a good place to be in, but in the majority of cases, being the recommended supplier is a much better place to be as it gives you direct control over both your pricing, and the relationship with the customer.

I regularly pick up wedding work at hotels where I know they have a resident, but the couple have chosen to go with me for reasons ranging from "the hotel said I couldn't meet the resident DJ before the night" to the much nicer "the hotel recommended you to us" or "xxx recommended you" or "we were at a wedding where you played and really want you". I also occasionally get "we had you recommended and you're cheaper than the hotel's DJ" - which is why I know that the hotel is charging the customer a lot more than they pay the DJ! :D

Julian

:agree: Absolutely, totally and utterly.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Another reason is that it is incredibly unfair to past and present clients who have paid the full fee if you go out and provide the exact same level of service, professionalism and production values to someone else at a cheaper rate. I often ask clients who try to haggle how they think they'd feel in that situation. I know I'd be incredibly cross if I was the full paying client.

I lost 2 gigs (or so it looks) earlier in the year for exactly this reason.

Someone had seen me at 3 weddings (all sisters from the same family who had booked me one after the other's wedding...) and had the contract and everything in place then said - "why are you £X amount more now?"

I explained - 1 of their weddings was mid week, the other was out of season with a very easy load in at a close by venue, the other had booked at a time I was running a discount, plus they were all 2 or 3 years ago so my prices had naturally increased - all reasonable reasons to explain the difference in price.

Never heard anything back and rescinded the contract.

At roughly the same time, the 4th sister (who I'd been determined to book) got in touch saying much the same thing to the point I'm assuming both of them were in contact with each other re: prices and so on.

Same thing, I explained why my prices were what they were, offered to take £20 or £25 off because the family had sent a lot of work my way but that would be the best I could do.

Never heard anything back from them and have to leave it at that.

If I started dropping my price to get the both of them on board then yeah I would have had more in my pocket than nothing but at the cost of diminishing my value and worth and more importantly - the other folk at that wedding, online and whoever else they talk to will know that "yeah he'll give you a price but ask him to drop it and he'll bite..." not great business practice imo.

[ukpartydj]

Another reason is that it is incredibly unfair to past and present clients who have paid the full fee if you go out and provide the exact same level of service, professionalism and production values to someone else at a cheaper rate. I often ask clients who try to haggle how they think they'd feel in that situation. I know I'd be incredibly cross if I was the full paying client.

Unfair or just standard business practice?
Lets think about businesses that do offer exactly the same product or service for different prices, (possibly because of bundling together items or doing something to make it easier) because the client asks for a discount:

Broadband, TV, Phone companies,
Market stalls,
Hotels,
Small shops,
Large shops (normally when buying in bulk),
Tradesmen (double glazing, builders, plumbers, gardeners, electricians etc).
Advertising companies,
Insurance.

And this is just a list of the types businesses that have given me a discount just for asking. I may have put in a large order, said it's just too much money or suggested I could find it cheaper elsewhere, but I still got a discount.

If a client wants a discount I often will tempt them to take on an extra or two at a reduced price or suggest they can have a discount if they can do something useful for me. If I want the gig and I'm not sure if I'll get another and they still want money off surely it's a bit silly to stand your ground?

[Excalibur]

If I started dropping my price to get the both of them on board then yeah I would have had more in my pocket than nothing but at the cost of diminishing my value and worth and more importantly - the other folk at that wedding, online and whoever else they talk to will know that "yeah he'll give you a price but ask him to drop it and he'll bite..." not great business practice imo.

I understand the logic, but:

I assume that the discounted prices were figures you were happy with? I also assume that your full prices aren't a million miles away from those. You're quite right to use inflation as part of the price increase, only fair. I think this illustrates the difference between some of us. Within reason, I can't afford to turn away work. If I couldn't get the required price by throwing in a sweetener like uplighting at a cheap rate, I'd look at trimming the kit down to the minimum suitable for the event.

75% of something is always better than 100% of nothing, unless of course you're sure you'll fill the date at full price, in which case, feel free to ignore everything I've posted.

[funkymook]

I've replied on and read through this thread several times - and still can't get a head around it

Yes i totally agree with bidding £150-200 above my normal rate to see if I can get a regular flow of bookings at that price - to be honest that is a bit of a no-brainer

What I can't quite reconcile is this (if both facts are true)

martin aka funkymook
My general impression is that the DJs in this thread that are going out at low to medium rates could and should be charging more without changing anything they do, apart from perhaps fine tuning how they respond to enquiries, they’re already offering good customer service and have suitable sound and lighting.

ppentertainment
consider that as one example, a hotel chain in the area pays their resident DJ £175 whereas in a different area, that same chain pays £450 – even though the hotel in this area is (supposedly) far superior. Also the only 5 star hotel in the area pays £170.


Now let's consider both facts are true - then surely the only possible conclusion is too many DJs in area A (the £175 one) are willing to work for that price which makes it next too impossible for them to get the same fee for the same work as DJs in are B (£450) - or otherwise all the DJs in area A are not as good/don't have as good a rig as those in area B - unless anyone can come up with another reasonable explanation.

IMHO It would be very educational to enquire of the management of this hotel chain why this is the case - the worse case scenario is we don't get an answer. So who are they? And let's ask the question by email. Do we have anything to lose by doing so? I would suspect someone here has worked for this said hotel chain in various areas - let's compare fees then and why not to see if it is true and all learn something in the process, it sounds like the best concrete example that has been mentioned so far would you not agree? So who is the client chain?

Or maybe it's all just supposition and rumour?

Because so far though it is an interesting discussion I can't say I have seen any implementable suggestions to get my fees above £200 and still get bookings - apart from simply asking for more, AKA trying higher pricest o see if I can still get regulare bookings at that rate.

Rich

I’m talking about private bookings made directly with the client, not being booked by hotels or pubs. Totally different scenarios.

[funkymook]

I understand the logic, but:

I assume that the discounted prices were figures you were happy with? I also assume that your full prices aren't a million miles away from those. You're quite right to use inflation as part of the price increase, only fair. I think this illustrates the difference between some of us. Within reason, I can't afford to turn away work. If I couldn't get the required price by throwing in a sweetener like uplighting at a cheap rate, I'd look at trimming the kit down to the minimum suitable for the event.

75% of something is always better than 100% of nothing, unless of course you're sure you'll fill the date at full price, in which case, feel free to ignore everything I've posted.

I look at it like this:

If you have a full-time job and your employer reduced your wages once in a while on a whim would you just accept it? It’s still better than nothing.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

I understand the logic, but:

I assume that the discounted prices were figures you were happy with? I also assume that your full prices aren't a million miles away from those. You're quite right to use inflation as part of the price increase, only fair. I think this illustrates the difference between some of us. Within reason, I can't afford to turn away work. If I couldn't get the required price by throwing in a sweetener like uplighting at a cheap rate, I'd look at trimming the kit down to the minimum suitable for the event.

75% of something is always better than 100% of nothing, unless of course you're sure you'll fill the date at full price, in which case, feel free to ignore everything I've posted.

As I said, I have a decent paying job so whilst I do aim to make a tidy profit DJing, I don't rely on it to feed myself and keep the roof over my head so my approach is different to someone who does rely on it as their primary income.

If I don't fill those dates (both being in the middle of Summer 2016 it's not something I'm going to worry about then happy days, if not then cest la vie, I'll spend the nights off in my hot tub which my fun DJ fund has paid for :)

[Excalibur]

I look at it like this:

If you have a full-time job and your employer reduced your wages once in a while on a whim would you just accept it? It’s still better than nothing.

But he's not reducing them. I am in effect. If the alternative is the sack, obviously I would. In the same vein, less pay, less work, by the way. :D
When I had a day job, much of the kit used was mine. In your scenario, that would obviously be withdrawn, and they'd either not have the work done, buy the kit needed, or hire in extra kit/staff.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Unfair or just standard business practice?
Lets think about businesses that do offer exactly the same product or service for different prices, (possibly because of bundling together items or doing something to make it easier) because the client asks for a discount:

Broadband, TV, Phone companies,
Market stalls,
Hotels,
Small shops,
Large shops (normally when buying in bulk),
Tradesmen (double glazing, builders, plumbers, gardeners, electricians etc).
Advertising companies,
Insurance.

And this is just a list of the types businesses that have given me a discount just for asking. I may have put in a large order, said it's just too much money or suggested I could find it cheaper elsewhere, but I still got a discount.

If a client wants a discount I often will tempt them to take on an extra or two at a reduced price or suggest they can have a discount if they can do something useful for me. If I want the gig and I'm not sure if I'll get another and they still want money off surely it's a bit silly to stand your ground?

It might be standard business practice but if I found out paid £100 more for my insurance than someone I know just because they asked for a discount it would be the last time I used that particular insurer. Same with pretty much the rest of the examples you gave.

[Benny Smyth]

And this is just a list of the types businesses that have given me a discount just for asking. I may have put in a large order, said it's just too much money or suggested I could find it cheaper elsewhere, but I still got a discount.

Oh, I see. Your argument being that because it happens everywhere, it's fair?


If I want the gig and I'm not sure if I'll get another and they still want money off surely it's a bit silly to stand your ground?

I wonder how the client would feel if they were told by their employers that they would be getting a cut in pay and if they don't take it, they'd lose their job. Sure it's a cut in pay and that is completely unacceptable, but it'd be silly to just stand your ground, right? I mean, there are absolutely no other jobs out there on this planet that would pay them the wage they expect for their field of work that they specialise in and let's not dance around this: what we do is a specialist area. A lot of people say that they can DJ but how many actually can? We are no different to solicitors, accountants or any other specialist field.

[Excalibur]

It might be standard business practice but if I found out paid £100 more for my insurance than someone I know just because they asked for a discount it would be the last time I used that particular insurer. Same with pretty much the rest of the examples you gave.

Mobile phones. When you come to upgrade, you'll be given an awful deal, especially compared to what you can get as a new customer elsewhere.

If you ring disconnections, and threaten to leave, then magically, you get a better deal than you could get if you move. Market forces.