Adding value and making more money

[dicky]

OK probably a quick intro to this thread is required to explian where I am coming from and where I am now.

As many of you know I started back DJing in November of last year after a 30yr break and built this rig from scratch.

Since then I built myself up from about £80-100 per booking and am now managing £130-£200 a night (got three bookings in at £200 so far but these seem to be accelerating (ie coming more regularly) with two already booked for next summer at that rate. Not only that but I feel I am building something of a reputation locally and also feel much more confident in what I do and how I do it.

At the moment I am mainly woking pub nights on a Friday at £100, private partiies and weddings on a Saturday (at £150 for the former and £200 for the latter) and basically have a full-ish diary generally being booked for 1-2 month ahead, so guess I am working at about 80%-100% of full weekend capacity, with several sunday bookings as a bonus - plus taking enough fri/sat bookings to pass some on to my mate Mac at CMC music because i am already booked. But I still have say 2 or so Fri/Sat bookings available per month not fulfilled

Yet still I am looking forward...... I just got my hands on a logo projector (you know me. 30W COB got it for next to nothing but needs a bit of repair) and I am thinking of adding some optional extras to my offerings

1. custom Gobo projectors - bride/groom Congratulatons/names etc - Happy 18th 21st whatever projected round the room

2. Mood lighting/uplighters - I have some good ones on sale here - no offers just yet so wondrered if they could earn me some extra money if I kept between 8 and 16 of them for myself and used on weddings etc, all DMXed of course

3. Wedding I did this weekend had those giant LOVE letters - shouldnttoo be expensive to buy or even better fabricate some myself

So based on the fees I am managing to attract (are they any good on the general scale of things and should I increase them anyway regardless based on my already 80% booked diary???)

And truthfully how much is reasonable (ie what you would and do charge and what the clients generally will likely pay for it it) for Congratulations 'B&G name' or personalise Happy whatever birthday etc projected gobos + LOVE letters - are these feasible comercial additions?

And how much is reasonable AND ACHIEVABLE for Uplighters/Mood lighting - or would I be better selling them and making a decent profit that way?

I would realy appreciate the advice to make a good commercial decision so OK over to the much more experienced than I on here........ what should I charge and based on a 80%-90% current booking rate (weekends) am I too cheap with what I have already?

Or given the whole of the above, and declared booking rate, am I just charging much less than I shoud for what I do anyway. Or am I doing it about right given how short a period I have been back as a DJ?

cheers
Rich

[funkymook]

Or given the whole of the above, and declared booking rate, am I just charging much less than I shoud for what I do anyway. Or am I doing it about right given how short a period I have been back as a DJ?


The short answer to that is if you’re happy with what you make for the effort you put in then your charging the right amount. If you’re not then you should be charging more. (and charging more is simply asking for more, you don’t have to do anything extra to justify it).

The longer answer involves running a business and making a profit and all the financial number crunching that's involved to see if you’re making money, breaking even or running at a loss.

[Imagine]

This thread takes me back to about a year ago, where I was in the same position as you (similar prices as well). I got some brilliant advice at the time.

Firstly as Martin says, charge what you're happy with. If you're happy at those prices and feel valued then there's no problem. It's not necessarily all about the money (although in my case my "backup" job is looking flaky so I'm trying to build my business up into something that will support the family and myself when the worst happens in around 12 month's time so the more I can make, the better we'll be able to eat!).

Now - this one could quite easily turn into a pricing thread, and I really hope not as there's plenty of those in other places. Hopefully we're all professional enough to avoid willy waving and "my rig's bigger than your rig" conversations..... :sofa:

I managed to double (and in some cases triple) what I was charging without any extras. My average evening only wedding is now £350 minimum, with a "standard" Friday/Saturday night being in the £300 region (occasionally £250). The prices are rising for next year already.

What did I do.....???

Tricky to put into words but I'll try. Basically, I upped my game.

I tidied up the rig beyond what it was last year (OK, it cost me money but it's an investment), so as far as I'm concerned I've got a setup that I think looks respectable and good value for money (without I might add, taking hours to rig/derig at either end of the party). I'm also in a position where I've got three very distinct setups, so a selling point is that I can tailor to suit absolutely ANY situation (and I've done posh country houses, village halls, somebody's back garden and a beach in the last 6 months with more to come).

I also tweaked my marketing (unfortunately that's now a huge part of what we do it would seem). Just making sure that the website wasn't getting people falling off the landing page etc. was all it took.

The most important part - having the confidence to say "hey - I'm worth a lot more" and actually charge what I thought I was worth. As I say, as my confidence in this particular area grows, then so are my prices (there's room for a lot of growth on the wedding side of things with the service I offer - and that's without things like uplighting etc., which although I own I don't actively market as yet).

I don't own a set of love letters - although there aren't many out here with them at the moment and talking to my last couple of brides who were looking at them there might actually be a market for them in my neck of the woods.

And here's something interesting for you....love letters round here are going out for between £250 and £350 for the day. That's just for someone to buy them, walk in and plug them in, then turn up later, unplug them and take them home (OK, simplistic as there's other costs such as transport, maintenance, storage etc. as we ourselves have), but in reality no more than around an hour's worth of work. Now compare that to what YOU do. You're there for many hours and actually WORK for those hours (damned hard at times if last Saturdays' wedding for me was anything to go by). From where I'm sitting at the moment, evening only for me should be in the region of around £500, and I'm slowly getting to that point, from where I was a year ago and where you are now.

Or to put it into a context that most people will understand - why do people buy iPhones? There's other smartphones out there (IMHO a lot better but hey - I've just brought into the fruity dream), and the others can be a lot cheaper. What does the iPhone do that's different from for example, a Samsung Galaxy? Answer, not a lot, but it's about brand and trust, and that's what people are buying into.

Now there'll always be folk that say "you can't get that round 'ere".....yes you can! It depends who you're marketing to though. Out here in the Cambs/Norfolk/Suffolk borders, it's not the most affluent of areas with a lot of people still working in retail/agriculture etc. However, look just a little further afield and it's Silicon Fen with those people living guess where? Yup, right on my doorstep. Make the marketing target those people and the prices can rise if you have the confidence to do it.

You won't be the cheapest out there (there'll ALWAYS be someone that'll do it for less), and you'll have to sell yourself a lot harder (people buy people so meet them, smile and laugh with them, show you're a human being but also a professional that what you do. You need to ooze confidence and show them that you absolutely love what you do and can make their function work).

[dicky]

@funkymook
Yeah I was rambling a bit - I tend to do that late in the evenings lol - What I make covers the effort I put in (bear in mind I do this for additional 'nice things' - foriegn holidays and running/showing my classic car) not for a living

But then is that really relevant why I do it - if there is more money to be made for not much more (or no extra) effort then wouldn't anyone want to do that?

So I think my questions on what these extras are likely to be worth is a reasonable one and those of you who offer these things already are a good place to ask ;)

@imagine - crossed posts with you there - just read yours. Useful info.

I didn't mention but think it may be relevant, when I quote at £200 for weddings (recent ones have been quoted at another wedding/party so they know exactly what they are getting) I seem to get a bit of a 'pained look' on the clients face and then sometimes they say yes and sometimes they say 'Ill think about it'. But they certainly don't seem to think it is a too cheap 'snatch your hand off' price

Rich

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Personally I do very little in the way of moodlighting and gobos. Not to say it can't be popular but I'd rather sell myself than some extra fripperies and bring in higher money every gig as standard rather than aim to scrape more in by selling mood lighting to my clients. Plus there's a lot of guys who offer free moodlighting just to sweeten the deal / pull in punters. Sack that.

YMMV

As for upping the price - you need to a. actually provide quality and have the client perceive the value in your pricing and b. not be afraid to push your price up for fear of losing gigs. That's the tricky part but if you do genuinely offer the value then quoting an appropriate price and not wavering on it are key.

Don't downsell other DJs but upsell your service.

Not wanting to turn this into a pricing thread but...

I recently did a wedding where the feedback was great culminating in "you provided amazing value for money." this was for an evening only gig where I charged £X and she'd initially tried to haggle with me because two of the other DJs she'd contacted had quoted 1/2 £X and one had quoted 1/3 of £X. I explained (without being patronising might I add) that I cost that much more because of A,B,C and D that I offered (as in experience, planning etc... not gear and flashy toys) , she saw the value in what I offered compared to the other two guys although they were much cheaper and went on to book and ultimately have a great night.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I hire out DIY disco packages all the time for £180+ just to put your fees in perspective. Sod the extras just up your disco prices!

[Imagine]

I hire out DIY disco packages all the time for £180+ just to put your fees in perspective. Sod the extras just up your disco prices!

Something I've been asked for a few times recently (and probably one for a different thread entirely).
Just one question though Neil....I'm assuming they provide their own music and you're basically giving them lights and PA for that price?

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Something I've been asked for a few times recently (and probably one for a different thread entirely).
Just one question though Neil....I'm assuming they provide their own music and you're basically giving them lights and PA for that price?

Yep, deckstand, couple of lights and a couple of powered speakers.

[yourdj]

I hire out DIY disco packages all the time for £180+ just to put your fees in perspective. Sod the extras just up your disco prices!

:agree:

And increase attention to detail, customer service and other improvements (such as better music programming, formalities preparations, client meets/personalisation etc.).

I have always refused to do DIY discos as all the ones i haste seen or heard about have been really bad - no flow, guests changing the music etc. etc. I would probably charge about £195 for sound lighting and then a further£100 if they wanted me to pre mix/select the music and lock it in a box so no one can fiddle with it on the night.

[Pe7e]

I have always refused to do DIY discos as all the ones i haste seen or heard about have been really bad - no flow, guests changing the music etc. etc. I would probably charge about £195 for sound lighting and then a further£100 if they wanted me to pre mix/select the music and lock it in a box so no one can fiddle with it on the night.

I think you're missing the point of a DIY Disco Toby, they want to choose the music themselves, not have the choice imposed on them by a DJ. Most I come across have a pre programmed playlist on VDJ or similar music program, prepared in advance of their party, they're a bit more tech savvy than you give them credit for. Regarding sound quality, I could justifiably say quite a few mobile discos I've been to, have also looked and sounded dire, and that's usually down to the standard of equipment they have. All the professional equipment suppliers I know, only provide good quality kit, they wouldn't be in business for long if they didn't. I've come across a few folk hiring out their 'back up' kit, but they don't seem to last too long.

[yourdj]

I think you're missing the point of a DIY Disco Toby, they want to choose the music themselves, not have the choice imposed on them by a DJ. Most I come across have a pre programmed playlist on VDJ or similar music program, prepared in advance of their party, they're a bit more tech savvy than you give them credit for. Regarding sound quality, I could justifiably say quite a few mobile discos I've been to, have also looked and sounded dire, and that's usually down to the standard of equipment they have. All the professional equipment suppliers I know, only provide good quality kit, they wouldn't be in business for long if they didn't. I've come across a few folk hiring out their 'back up' kit, but they don't seem to last too long.

I am with you on crap DJ's, that would put me off!

The biggest skill i have is knowing what should go when (most of the time anyway) and that took me years and I am still have loads to learn. It has little to do with equipment as i could easily do a night on a reasonably sized speaker and an iPhone. its the crap DJ's that play all the wrong music at the wrong times, with horrible sound quality and crack jokes all the time that let the industry down. :)

Most of the people I have met have not wanted the Peter Kay type of thing and choose their music before the wedding, by loading it on an iPod. I was suggesting pre programming their music before the event to their specification, so that Brightside does not follow, mmbop and then a thousands years after that. You can work out from them the approx. times of buffet etc. and other formalities and do a playlist that you press play on first dance and thats that. Also the average Joe has no clue about sound and light, so IMO its imperative that its set up by a professional, so that the levels are all good.

Most of the feedback from clients and also from my own experience say that the people keep changing the music all the time so they just give up and sit down. Its usually ushers that think that the stone roses, led zeppelin, Arctic Monkeys and such like will get everyone dancing at 8pm, which is invariably not the case. ;)

Juke box's unchecked are dodgy, especially when you have kids choosing frozen, granny wanting motown, uncle wanting Duran Duran, teens wanting Jason derulo. With nothing to judge what comes when it is a bit of a mess. Not seen one in action mind you but every client that has booked me who has mentioned them has said that no one danced. I can see it working when one group of people all like similar tracks (like a 21st), but its tricky for family functions.

[dicky]

Well.... I contacted my client from Saturday (who by the way was very happy with the service I provided at £200 and says I should get lots more bookings from their extended family)

I asked about the giant LOVE letters and she told me who supplied them. I now got mrs dicky to fire off an email from her girly email address and see what quote she gets

Hopefully tomorrow I can answer this myself and see if it is around £350 as has been suggested - which is far more than I charged to work all evening. I do know the supplier 'installed' the letters on the day and picked them up early next morning

From what I have been reading on this thread (all of it) It seems not many of you offer such things as uplighters/projected custom gobos/mood lighting as an extra?

Rich
ps did get two other wedding enquiries (one on the night) and one probably completely unrelated via fascebook - quoted £200 on both and reply was 'will think about it and let you know'

[Nakatomi]

Well.... I contacted my client from Saturday (who by the way was very happy with the service I provided at £200 and says I should get lots more bookings from their extended family)

I asked about the giant LOVE letters and she told me who supplied them. I now got mrs dicky to fire off an email from her girly email address and see what quote she gets

Hopefully tomorrow I can answer this myself and see if it is around £350 as has been suggested - which is far more than I charged to work all evening. I do know the supplier 'installed' the letters on the day and picked them up early next morning

From what I have been reading on this thread (all of it) It seems not many of you offer such things as uplighters/projected custom gobos/mood lighting as an extra?

Rich
ps did get two other wedding enquiries (one on the night) and one probably completely unrelated via fascebook - quoted £200 on both and reply was 'will think about it and let you know'

I'm about to pop the question at my residency & see if they're open to the idea of offering uplighting as an extra. They'd get a cut & I take the rest.. all reasonable & I'd probably make back my investment with a couple of bookings of those.

As for people being reticent about booking discos, it's no wonder. There are simply too few good DJs around. Good for the rest of us I suppose, but terrible news for the sector as a whole. At the same time you can be the world's best DJ, but if you stink at selling yourself you're doomed to always remain ploughing the same furrow.

[Platinumeventsolutions]

We supply dancefloors giant love letters giant Mr & Mrs gobo projection red carpets and more. Customers will happily pay more for these services then a full evenings disco. As it is the must have thing just like chocolate fourtions were

[dicky]

@platinumevent

Could you add some idea of prices to your post re custom gobos and giant LOVE letters just to give us some idea of what additional fees could be charged please?

I'm gonna research this myself a little more now - hopefully will have a quote from the company who supplied the LOVE letters from the wedding I did on Saturday by tomorrow

Plus will have a good chat with the venue manager and find out how much the room gets hired out for (have thought of a very good reason to ask this :) ) and also on Saturday the catering staff provided a full on hot barbecue for around 100 guests around 9pm plus plates full of sarnies (thats proper talk for 'sandwiches' by the way) while I was setting up around 5pm, would be interesting to see what that cost and think I can find out

Definitely gonna see now if I am seriosly underselling my services as has been pretty much pointed out on here by you good folks

Rich

Oh and the room was set out like this and the venue was in the middle of park land as you may just be able to see from the open doorway to the right

[DeckstarDeluxe]

We send out our large 5 ft love letters for £200 plus delivery. I will warn you every man and their dog has the damm things now. My suggestion is get some Stairville LED 56 par cans which are about £38 each and offer uplighting which is an easy sell once you have a selection of pictures in various colours. We send out 12-18 on jobs for £180 plus delivery

[Pe7e]

We send out 12-18 on jobs for £180 plus delivery

Is that 'Dry Hire', 'Installed' or as part of a package including the disco?

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Is that 'Dry Hire', 'Installed' or as part of a package including the disco?

Stand alone and installed.

[Platinumeventsolutions]

@dicky
Love letters 4ft going out at £300.00
Name projection using eLumen8 MS700PE 180W LED Moving Head so you can layer effects if needed £250.00
Up lighting using LEDJ Alu Par Compact White £25 per head stand alone single colour. Lets you up sell dmx programing charge at £35 per chase. Plus installation charged at £45 per hour
custom gobos can be had from goboland or rosco
All prices plus vat

[ukpartydj]

I think a lot of increasing your price is being able to convince yourself and your customer that you are worth the money.
This doesn't mean a long winded conversation explaining why you're worth more money!

Make an improvement to the way you work and increase your price, then make another and increase again. That way you'll know that you're worth more than you were before. So when you say I charge £280 instead of £200 you know that you are worth £80 more because you're doing £80 worth of work on top of what you did before!

I never knew those stupid love letters went out for so much! You can hire a bouncy castle for £50 which is far more impressive than some letters!! I may just start making some :)

[yourdj]

As Dave reed said back in the day. Contact a professional sound and lighting company and get a quote for them supplying pro level gear only with collection (i.e. a pair of mackies, dj mixer etc.) then a quote for them delivering it & installing it, and then a further quote for being there all night looking after it.

Then add on your DJ charges as well as behind the scenes prep, meeting, transport, time etc. etc.
You would be astonished at the amount s you will get.

After all the average Joe does not even know how an XLR works, let alone getting all the EQ right.
Thats before even thinking about Djing and having the responsibility of looking after it all night. . :)

[dicky]

Very interseting info guys....

Had a look into the Giant LOVE letter thing (and also Giant MR & MRS letters and hearts)

Definitely, definitely money in this in my local area - will invest in (or fabricate some) after my hols - both for use on my own offering as an extra, and for hire.

Same with the gobo projectors - got the 30W COB Equinox gobo projector here today, cost next to nowt on ebay but fixed it within 30 mins and it looks like new. Bit of a step down from those 180W LED moving heads Platinumevents are using, but even those are not stupidly expensive so much that I wouldn't make an investment if I get a good response to hiring the smaller ones and again adding as an option on my own gigs

Decided to keep all those QTX Smartlight parcans for now - got 18 in total which is a good start - will try hiring or adding as an option myself

Can always sell them later anyway if things don't work out and they dont' stand me a large investment at the moment so seems an ideal opportunity to get into another side of this business :)

Actually as I have this rather useful knack of fixing electronic items, I'm also thinking of building some gig bar type lights for dry hire. I've seen some of the ones Pe7e has built. Also getting my hands on some active speaker sets spare/repair - just missed a pair of faulty Mackie TH15-A cos someone wanted to bid more than me :( But there will be another day..... I have a skill with electronics that I believe puts me in a strong position to build up a good stock of modern hire equipment at low cost to me

Anyone doing dry hire would you care to elaborate on what is generally the most popular items? I am assuming portable stuff such as active speakers and mixers, tripod/lighting rigs, hazers and small fold down DJ booths? Basically what will fit in a car?

Those of you dry-hiring - how do you ensure the stuff comes back and does not 'walk'?

My PLI covers me for dry hire - just checked ;)

Guess I will need a larger storage unit soon.... mines already full with my own rig and stuff awaiting repair lol

Rich

[funkymook]

Give it a couple of years and the DJ’s who are asking what they need to add to get higher fees will realise they didn’t have to add anything, they just needed to quote it, and they will in turn offer the same advice they are being given now.

But like most things you have to find out for yourself.

[Platinumeventsolutions]

Dry hire rigs 12" w-audio active speakers 2 channel mixer gig bar or 4 led cans on a t bar.
Hazer smoke machines etc all extra.
I have dry and wet hire insurance also take deposit via card and copy of id

[dicky]

Cheeers Platinumevents - kinda what I thought :)


Give it a couple of years and the DJ’s who are asking what they need to add to get higher fees will realise they didn’t have to add anything, they just needed to quote it, and they will in turn offer the same advice they are being given now.

But like most things you have to find out for yourself.


Is that advice directed towards me funkymook? Possibly this is the case and you are quite correct - as I said I only started back in November and have easily enough moved up from £80-130 per night to £100-£200 - that's quite a move up the scale already but it's just I feel I am hitting a bit of a glass ceiling art the moment as I get frowns when I quote now and about 50% at the £200 price convert to bookings, yet near 100% of the £100-£150 quotes do and that is an undeniable fact.

Maybe I am just not experienced enough to ask that sort of money yet, something I will gladly accept if true and try to improve, but how do I determine if that is the case? Unless one of you wants to come watch me work one night and appraise my performance. Actually I would love that opportunity ;)

I know kinda where I want to be and i am not there yet, believe me.

I know many of you do not believe in this regional ceiling thing - now I just checked on needadisco.com and the highest confirmed booking in 2015 for Stoke-on-Trent was £175. I am managing better than that myself.

Why are there no £450 or £650 or whatever confirmed bookings on such a large site as needadisco..... surely someone local is good enough for that even if I am not? If the perceived ceiling does not exist could someone please explain the reason for the query result on needadisco to me? According to needadisco confirmed bookings, am I already near the top of the scale of what can be achieved? If so then this is why I am looking at other extra things :) If not I need to work harder at what I am already doing, or just plain simple from good advice offered here ask for twice as much money than I am doing and see what happens

Rich

[Benny Smyth]

Don't use NaD as a surrogate marker for anything. I met a photographer on Friday from your neck of the woods and he tells me a friend of his (who lives in the same area) is charging around the 350-400 mark.

What you need to do to charge more, I don't know. I'd happily sit across a pub table from you and tell you what I do and you can decide what's good, what isn't and whether it gives you any ideas.

[DazzyD]

Maybe people who use directory sites do so so they can compare a number of operators at once? Maybe they are researching operators where price is a big issue? I tend to believe that those use directory sites are not looking for something specific, or a niche even. If they did then they'd be searching on specific terms and being directed to specific websites. If you offer that niche, that something special, that they are looking for, and your website is good enough, they will find you and come to you directly. I believe that people who want the best or something special go direct to the supplier. People who want the best offers (financially) go through a "broker". I'm not saying one is better than the other. Both types of client are paying customers. But you need to work out which one you want to work with and market accordingly. The best money will come to you if you attract it directly! ;)

[Nakatomi]

Cheeers Platinumevents - kinda what I thought :)




Is that advice directed towards me funkymook? Possibly this is the case and you are quite correct - as I said I only started back in Novenmber and have easily enough moved up from £80-130 per night to £100-£200 - that's quite a move up the scale already but it's just I feel I am hitting a bit of a glass ceiling art the moment as I get frowns when I quote now and about 50% rturen to bookings - or maybe I am just not experienced enough to ask that sort of money yet, something I will gladly accept if true and try to improve.

I know kinda where I want to be and i am not there yet.

I know many of you do not believe in this regional ceiling thing - now I just checked on needadisco.com and the highest confirmed booking in 2015 for Stoke-on-Trent was £175. I am managing better than that myself.

Why are there no £450 or £650 or whatever confirmed bookings on such a large site as needadisco..... surely someone local is good enough for that even if I am not? If the perceived ceiling does not exist could someone please explain the reason for the query result on needadisco to me? Am I already near the top of the scale of what can be achieved? If so then this is why I am looking at other extra things :) If not I need to work harder at what I am already doing, or just plain simple from good advice offered here ask for twice as much money than I am doing and see what happens

Rich

Well, maybe higher value bookings for your area don't come from NaD.. and maybe the ones winning top money gigs around your patch aren't from there. Up here it doesn't take many hands to count the number of discos on NaD - and it's a pretty big area. As for my town, I know of four other disco businesses - none of those are on NaD either. It's not the be all & end all.

Take venues as an example. My residency charges upwards of £5000 to host a reception & evening party for 100 people - more if you want the ceremony there too. Another venue I've worked a fair bit as a walk-in DJ charges around a third of that for the same thing. Both very similar venues (if pressed I'd say the cheaper of the 2 venues is more on the ball), both within 20 minutes drive from home for me.

[funkymook]

Cheeers Platinumevents - kinda what I thought :)




Is that advice directed towards me funkymook? Possibly this is the case and you are quite correct - as I said I only started back in November and have easily enough moved up from £80-130 per night to £100-£200 - that's quite a move up the scale already but it's just I feel I am hitting a bit of a glass ceiling art the moment as I get frowns when I quote now and about 50% at the £200 price convert to bookings, yet near 100% of the £100-£150 quotes do and that is an undeniable fact.

Maybe I am just not experienced enough to ask that sort of money yet, something I will gladly accept if true and try to improve, but how do I determine if that is the case? Unless one of you wants to come watch me work one night and appraise my performance. Actually I would love that opportunity ;)

I know kinda where I want to be and i am not there yet, believe me.

I know many of you do not believe in this regional ceiling thing - now I just checked on needadisco.com and the highest confirmed booking in 2015 for Stoke-on-Trent was £175. I am managing better than that myself.

Why are there no £450 or £650 or whatever confirmed bookings on such a large site as needadisco..... surely someone local is good enough for that even if I am not? If the perceived ceiling does not exist could someone please explain the reason for the query result on needadisco to me? According to needadisco confirmed bookings, am I already near the top of the scale of what can be achieved? If so then this is why I am looking at other extra things :) If not I need to work harder at what I am already doing, or just plain simple from good advice offered here ask for twice as much money than I am doing and see what happens

Rich

It’s a general comment really, and we’ve all been there.

NaD is not the complete picture. I’m member but 99% of my bookings are direct contact via my website and my average fee is far higher than the NaD average for the same areas.

There’s no point throwing more gear and extra work at those clients who will never pay a higher fee regardless of what you offer. One of the biggest misconceptions in my opinion is that higher fees mean converting current lower paying clients, it isn’t, it’s about finding different clients who will pay more - marketing is where the game needs to be upped, the DJ side of things is already in place.

[Pe7e]

Anyone doing dry hire would you care to elaborate on what is generally the most popular items? I am assuming portable stuff such as active speakers and mixers, tripod/lighting rigs, hazers and small fold down DJ booths? Basically what will fit in a car?
My PLI covers me for dry hire - just checked
Rich

We will have to have a good long chat next time we meet, I've an idea that could make both of us decent money without any meaningful investment on your part, apart from a bit of time. Some of the other questions you posed I'll give you my opinions based on real world experience face to face, as I don't really want to disclose these on a public forum.

[Pe7e]

There’s no point throwing more gear and extra work at those clients who will never pay a higher fee regardless of what you offer. One of the biggest misconceptions in my opinion is that higher fees mean converting current lower paying clients, it isn’t, it’s about finding different clients who will pay more - marketing is where the game needs to be upped, the DJ side of things is already in place.

I totally agree, but until you've had the chance to talk with them, you don't know what their perceptions of the likely cost will be, wealthy clients can be as tight as those without a large budget. IMO it's very much dependant on confidence and salesmanship. Clients finding you as a result of a recommendation will usually know exactly how much their friend paid, and it's very hard to up that figure, the more upmarket jobs you get, the more lucrative recommendations you get, and they will be aware of your expectations, so a much easier sell.

[rth_discos]

about 50% at the £200 price convert to bookings, yet near 100% of the £100-£150 quotes do and that is an undeniable fact.

I would rather do 5 x £200 gigs then 10 x £100 gigs.

Worry less about the conversion rate, and more about the overall monthly revenue.

Recently, when I've been quoting (and it's a lot more than £200), I've been getting responses like "wow, that's a lot cheaper than I expected".

And I only started back up again, from scratch, at the beginning of this year.

[surround sounds]

I think marketing in the correct areas is key.
Eg where i live Rowley Regis/halesowen you will only get £120 - £175 max
but google yourself into Solihull / Sutton Coldfield and you will get 3 or 4 times that for taking the same gear with you.

The other thing i will say is 5 years ago i used to take loads of gear with me but now i take very little including just a powerbar.
my fee as over doubled, so its not all about the equipment.
It also helps with the amount of enquiries you get because the more you get and convert, the more you can charge the following year and for that reason i am busy every week and my prices go up and up

[Imagine]

I think marketing in the correct areas is key.
Eg where i live Rowley Regis/halesowen you will only get £120 - £175 max
but google yourself into Solihull / Sutton Coldfield and you will get 3 or 4 times that for taking the same gear with you.

The other thing i will say is 5 years ago i used to take loads of gear with me but now i take very little including just a powerbar.
my fee as over doubled, so its not all about the equipment.
It also helps with the amount of enquiries you get because the more you get and convert, the more you can charge the following year and for that reason i am busy every week and my prices go up and up

Exactly the same in my neck of the woods.
When I started back up in 2013, I took a Landrover with a box trailer filled to the brim with overhead bars, stacks of lights and the kitchen sink. This year, I've drastically reduced what I take out and my prices have risen - all due to marketing.
As much as people moan about them, my usual weapon of choice at the moment (apart from weddings) is a brace of GigBars - they do the job, nobody's ever complained and they're just easy. Why make life harder than it needs to be, especially when it's hot like it is now.

As for the 5@£200 vs 10@£100 - the £100 route costs you more for the same turnover by the time you've taken into account things like fuel.
Remember, Turnover is vanity - Profit is sanity.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

People buy people, not the collection of gear. Forget the idea that you need to add more equipment to increase your fees, £200 as it is for an DJ with experience with a sound and lighting rig is stupidly cheap.

Whatever the price you charge people will say you are too expensive but also other folks will say that's too cheap. Clients mention to me that I'm two or three times more expensive than other quotes but they booked me and never once was it because of the equipment/ me saying something negative about the others or throwing in extra add ons).

[Andy P]

I'm slowly coming round to the realisation that as long as there is loud music people dont care - they want the man more than the machine

[Benny Smyth]

I'm slowly coming round to the realisation that as long as there is loud music people dont care - they want the man more than the machine

http://static.spiceworks.com/shared/post/0007/8631/giggity.jpg

[funkymook]

Since then I built myself up from about £80-100 per booking and am now managing £130-£200 a night

Leaving equipment out of it what are you doing differently for the £200 bookings that you weren’t doing for the £100 bookings that has enabled you to get the higher price?

[dicky]

@functions - the rig hasn't got any larger or changed a lot - the only changes are much better quality tops (courtesy or Peter Excalibur) and replacing older low powered moonflowers for high powered versions. Much the rest is the same as it was, or has 'evolved' a bit as I got my hands on nicer things - eg cluster laser to geometrix laser to Mito laser. The old gear I sold on as it was changed, to fund replacements

What has changed - well now you ask it in black and white my honest answer to that is - my confidence both in what I am doing as a DJ and what I feel customers will likely pay for it

Guess that really confirms a lot of what you have been saying on this thread ;)



@Pe7e - definitely mate. I'm going on hols on Moday for 18 days Gran Canaria - will get in touch after that as i have some of your repaired gear to bring back anyway

@benny - likewise mate - a pub chat over a pint and a bit of nosh would be great. Cheers

Rich

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Unless you live in some strange little economic bubble where the normal rules of market economies don't apply then the "You could never get £x in this here neck of the woods." type chat is nonsense. Going in with that kind of negativity instantly takes away your desire or energy to go for the bigger paying gigs as if they're impossible or non existant when they most certainly are.

Glasgow and the Central Belt is flooded with DJs from your "gis a couple pints and I'll do it" through to your high end wedding and corp guys. Market economics would dictate that due to the amount of supply, the prices would be kept artificially lower but that's not the case at all.

Yeah there's a tonne of folk who want tony two decks for £120 but there's also plenty who will pay more for a higher level of service and that's the same throughout Scotland. I know guys who will constantly say "aye you get that in Glasgow but you'll not get that up this way." and I've not got the heart to tell them that you absolutely can and do because I'll have bookings way over the prices they're stating for gigs in their area. If you could market and sell the value properly up here I've no doubt there's a small but very real market out there for someone to be making £1000+ per gig for DJing only.

If you want to earn big you've got to look big - saying "you can't get this or that" is essentially telling yourself "I'm not worth more than the guys that charge £x." and to do that my friends is to instantly put a barrier up to reaching those goals...

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Also gear has little to do with your perceived value.

How many of you have taken bookings and then had someone ask - "Does that include lights?" or even "So do we need to supply the speakers?"

Any dafty can buy a pair of speakers, some reasonable looking lights and a snidey hard drive and away they go - you move yourself up the ladder by differentiating yourself from these guys. You don't achieve that buy getting nicer speakers and shinier lights, you do that by showing the client that you're service, attention to detail and professionalism is miles ahead of the others.

[ukpartydj]

I think it's oddly different with price brackets and your experience with them. For example I do the occasional cheap gig if I'm not already booked and I can feel really out of place and not suitable sometimes. Whereas whenever I get full fee I seem to fit in perfectly.

That's probably just the clientele but I say if you want to earn more... you need to learn more

[Shakermaker Promotions]

I've said this before elsewhere but I'll say it again...
When I first registered as self employed 10 and half years ago and plunged into the world of full time DJing, I obviously did some market research on other suppliers in the area just like I am sure many of us did.
I found that the prices varied but not that much. Having worked full time previously for a friend's business a few years previously I kind of knew what to tick off straight away.
In the end when I decided to price myself I went for somewhere in the middle ground rightly or wrongly but it got me lots of enquiries and confirmed bookings in the first couple of years. At the time all I was offering was Disco Entertainment. In the 3rd year I was still only providing Discos but I decided to up the price by £50.00 and my 3rd year was and still is my busiest and most lucrative to date. It was mad in 2008.

A few years ago a friend of mine who was running his own business (car diagnostics) said to me that he thought I was underpricing myself. He told me to up my price even more. I looked again at what others were charging but also took note of their replies and the information that they provided me with. Some were ok, some were very poor and one or two word answers. For example - "I charge £225.00 for a Disco".... Ok, so is that per hour or for 8 hours? Get the idea...

He told me to add £100.00 on to the next enquiry I received and see what happens. I was very wary at first and tried to explain to him that he didn't know the business I was in but I went for it. The first few enquiries didn't want to know but I was amazed when one customer actually booked me at the higher price. I never changed it after that and I didn't back down. I DID discount every now and then IF an enquiry came in for a date I wasn't working but it was very rare.

In my experience, most customers don't really care about what the Disco looks like...it's US that do. Ok, some customers might do but it's the music that matters most of the time. WE care about how everything looks.
I don't have the best equipment around but I believe I offer a personal service before I've even pressed the PLAY button and that's what my customers appreciate.
Some out there may have the best sound systems, moving heads and be able to offer every other service too and they may be operating on a larger and more profitable scale. That's fair enough. I personally don't want to get into that side of things and am happy with how things are going.

I offer Uplighting (generally standalone) at reduced prices when booked with the Disco so that it increases my price. If I know the venue then it is well worth doing because in some cases it takes literally 10 minutes to create a great look otherwise 30 minutes extra work and the price is better, why not eh? The customer likes to think that they are getting a good deal and I am getting extra.
I will also offer 'freebies' (Photo Projection or Background Music facility) sometimes if it guarantees me a booking.

Someone earlier said "People buy People" and I totally agree with that.
I think there are some gear snobs out there but that could be said of any business. It's the customer service side that's important in my opinion.
Obviously there are some customers that call or email and are looking for the cheapest price out there. They don't think much of the Disco and more than likely think that everyone and anyone can do it (which is obviously wrong). Gone are the days of me wasting my time trying to meet those budgets and I won't even back down even if I am free. I think you need to stick to your guns sometimes.

[rth_discos]

I think it's oddly different with price brackets and your experience with them. For example I do the occasional cheap gig if I'm not already booked and I can feel really out of place and not suitable sometimes. Whereas whenever I get full fee I seem to fit in perfectly.

That's probably just the clientele but I say if you want to earn more... you need to learn more

I had exactly this recently, helping out another DJ taking on a gig for a lower fee to help them out on a date I had free.

I find when I have higher paying clients, they want to invest more time in to the event planning, making it right, meaning I can perform confidently on the night knowing exactly what the client wants.

But with the lower paying gig, they didn't really give much input - they just wanted a DJ, so was harder to know exactly what they were after! So oddly, felt much less confident going in to the gig. As it was, I was very quickly able to read what they were looking for, and did a great job, but I prefer to turn up knowing exactly what they are looking for.

[ukpartydj]

He told me to add £100.00 on to the next enquiry I received and see what happens. I was very wary at first and tried to explain to him that he didn't know the business I was in but I went for it. The first few enquiries didn't want to know but I was amazed when one customer actually booked me at the higher price. I never changed it after that and I didn't back down. I DID discount every now and then IF an enquiry came in for a date I wasn't working but it was very rare.


I remember you told me that a while back. I wonder if you could do the same again now and increase your fee another £100?
I want to make sure that my client always feels they got a good deal. Because of that I personally always feel like I need to do something extra to charge extra. You're freebies are a good way of ensuring customer satisfaction also!


I had exactly this recently, helping out another DJ taking on a gig for a lower fee to help them out on a date I had free.

I find when I have higher paying clients, they want to invest more time in to the event planning, making it right, meaning I can perform confidently on the night knowing exactly what the client wants.

But with the lower paying gig, they didn't really give much input - they just wanted a DJ, so was harder to know exactly what they were after! So oddly, felt much less confident going in to the gig. As it was, I was very quickly able to read what they were looking for, and did a great job, but I prefer to turn up knowing exactly what they are looking for.

That could well be the issue!