For an extra £X, you can have a second DJ!

[Benny Smyth]

I've never understood this concept.

I went out for a cider with some friends last night (OK, maybe more than one cider), and we were sitting next to a table that had a couple of it. After about an hour, my mate pops up and says to this table "Guy's, if you wanna talk about DJ's, he's your man!"

Cue my "Huh?" face!

Turns out this couple were talking about their wedding and were discussing the evening entertainment, which is what my mate overheard. After they enquired why they would talk to me about such things and my mate explaining (with me thinking "Shut up, it's my day off!"), they come over and asked me for some advice.

:rolleyes:

So here's the scenario: they've booked a DJ. Contract signed, and they are happy with what they call 'the basic package'. Now that the contract was signed, the DJ is upselling and this is what they are unsure about. They asked about uplighting, dancefloors, smoke machines and lasers. I explained what each meant, got some pics on Google and showed them how it could work out. Also explained that smoke machines may not be allowed by the venue, with means there is no point in the laser either. Never once gave my opinion - I just gave them the info and left it at that (after all, it's not my job to see it to them, is it?).

Then came the optional extra of a second DJ. "Should we consider it?"

"Well, that depends. Is the second DJ Calvin Harris?"
"No."
"Steve Aoki?"
"No."
"Roger Sanchez?"
"No."
"Tiesto?"
"Ok, we get your point!"

This was the only part I gave my opinion on, and it is very simple: either the DJ is not good enough to pull off a successful gig on his own, or he is but then paying for a second DJ would be a waste of money because you can get a great night with one DJ.

Am I alone in this thought process? If you offer the 'second DJ service', maybe you can explain what I'm missing?

[DeckstarDeluxe]

Too many cooks spoil the broth from my point of view but it does happen with things like headphone discos. I'd be more willing if it's a DJ I know (by which I know he ain't a ****).

If they aren't that happy with DJ one just cancel, particularly if they've met someone else they much prefer and feel happier with.

[funkymook]

I've never understood this concept.

I went out for a cider with some friends last night (OK, maybe more than one cider), and we were sitting next to a table that had a couple of it. After about an hour, my mate pops up and says to this table "Guy's, if you wanna talk about DJ's, he's your man!"

Cue my "Huh?" face!

Turns out this couple were talking about their wedding and were discussing the evening entertainment, which is what my mate overheard. After they enquired why they would talk to me about such things and my mate explaining (with me thinking "Shut up, it's my day off!"), they come over and asked me for some advice.

:rolleyes:

So here's the scenario: they've booked a DJ. Contract signed, and they are happy with what they call 'the basic package'. Now that the contract was signed, the DJ is upselling and this is what they are unsure about. They asked about uplighting, dancefloors, smoke machines and lasers. I explained what each meant, got some pics on Google and showed them how it could work out. Also explained that smoke machines may not be allowed by the venue, with means there is no point in the laser either. Never once gave my opinion - I just gave them the info and left it at that (after all, it's not my job to see it to them, is it?).

Then came the optional extra of a second DJ. "Should we consider it?"

"Well, that depends. Is the second DJ Calvin Harris?"
"No."
"Steve Aoki?"
"No."
"Roger Sanchez?"
"No."
"Tiesto?"
"Ok, we get your point!"

This was the only part I gave my opinion on, and it is very simple: either the DJ is not good enough to pull off a successful gig on his own, or he is but then paying for a second DJ would be a waste of money because you can get a great night with one DJ.

Am I alone in this thought process? If you offer the 'second DJ service', maybe you can explain what I'm missing?

I’ve seen this discussed elsewhere and the plus points from those offering it were the second DJ was able to meet and greet, coordinate, introduce etc. Also worse case scenario if one couldn’t make it there was a back-up.

But if it’s just two people behind the decks then I don’t see the advantage unless they have a very slick and entertaining double act routine.

[Excalibur]

Am I alone in this thought process? If you offer the 'second DJ service', maybe you can explain what I'm missing?

1) You're not alone
2) I'd like the explanation as well.

Re two DJs, I sometimes roadie for the legend that is John Brown ( Twinspin ) and often play a few tunes myself at some point, on occasions we'll be doing short little sets alternately. It's not planned, it doesn't cost extra, and it may or may not happen. I don't see the extra value in it.

Re your actions Benny, well done that man. Advice should be free, and devoid of a sales pitch. Somewhere along the line, Karma will repay you, believe me. We often forget that clients don't know exactly what is " standard " with a disco ( "do you have lights? " is an old favourite ) and what" extras " are available and beneficial.

I'm not entirely happy about upselling after the contract's signed. Why oh why oh why wasn't it all sorted before? Doesn't sit well with me, I'm afraid. I appreciate that on occasion, it may well happen for perfectly valid reasons, ( I have a NYE wedding where they signed up for the disco, and then asked about upgrades. )

I'm pretty unhappy that this couple are being offered lots of " upgrades " that they don't understand, and probably don't want or need.




But if it’s just two people behind the decks then I don’t see the advantage unless they have a very slick and entertaining double act routine.


I sometimes roadie for the legend that is John Brown ( Twinspin ) and often play a few tunes myself at some point, on occasions we'll be doing short little sets alternately

Well, modesty forbids me from claiming that John and I are in this category, but the incessant witty banter and repartee between us is legendary. ;)

I've remembered one where I helped Justin, and it did get more than a little " Smashie and Nicey " though. :o:o:o

[Nakatomi]

If one or both DJs are specialists (offering different flavours), go for it. I've played the 'vanilla' DJ alongside a full-on reggae DJ before & it was great fun & educational for both of us. But two 'vanilla' DJs? Meh.

[DazzyD]

Personally, with deck stands being quite small and compact, and with that description certainly not applying to me!, I don't like anyone being behind there with me. Even my own brother, who is my roadie, doesn't stay at the venue after setting the gear up. He leaves and comes back at the end.

And I really can't get why anyone would consider booking a second DJ unless they either have something very specific in mind (like different niche genres and getting the right DJ for each) or if it's a very long gig to rotate DJs.

[yourdj]

Faster set up and bouncing track ideas becomes easier (assuming they are experienced).
Also as mentioned, one can press play while the other can coordinate.

Thats about it and nothing I would charge more for.

Perhaps £50 for a roadie, but I tend to just pay that anyway out of the pot if he is available and required.

[DJ Jules]

I remember a certain prominent member of the DJ community who used to charge extra for bringing a second person to weddings with their all day package. In their case the second person wasn't a DJ, they were doing the role of co-ordinator on the day, making sure people were in the right place, making sure they entered and exited on cue and generally supporting the flow of the day.

The second person really only comes into their own if the DJ is selling themselves as a full on wedding planner/MC as well as a DJ and getting far more involved in the day than a DJ who deals with the evening reception only.

Julian

[yourdj]

I remember a certain prominent member of the DJ community who used to charge extra for bringing a second person to weddings with their all day package. In their case the second person wasn't a DJ, they were doing the role of co-ordinator on the day, making sure people were in the right place, making sure they entered and exited on cue and generally supporting the flow of the day.

The second person really only comes into their own if the DJ is selling themselves as a full on wedding planner/MC as well as a DJ and getting far more involved in the day than a DJ who deals with the evening reception only.

Julian

:agree:

Having someone sort out the equipment and press play etc. Is a god send. :)
Lets you relax and concentrate on the B&G rather than having to set up last minute sound systems etc.
I am on my own tomorrow unfortunately - my usually assistant would be a great help, especially given the weather!!
That should be included as standard though, not an add on.

[funktions]

Faster set up and bouncing track ideas becomes easier (assuming they are experienced).
Also as mentioned, one can press play while the other can coordinate.

Thats about it and nothing I would charge more for.

Perhaps £50 for a roadie, but I tend to just pay that anyway out of the pot if he is available and required.

that's the reason there are 2 of us, while one concentrates on the music the other one can take requests answer questions, change tracks or at least be a visible presence whilst the other one is indisposed as to say. we work well together and can bounce ideas, sometimes we do the comedy double act as well. do we charge extra for it , no we don't
any idea what the going rate for tiesto is ? ouch google told me... $200-400k imagine adding that to the quote ..

[Excalibur]

That should be included as standard though, not an add on.

Break out the bunting Toby, because basically I agree with you. There are all sorts of hairs to split as to whether the " second DJ " is merely a roadie who knows where the play button is, or similar, but there should be no cost added on to the initial quote.

Given the scenario outlined by Benny in the original post, I think it's a scam.
Unless: After being told he could back the van up to the stage to unload, and quoting for this, he's subsequently told it's up three flights of stairs, two corridors and an electronic security door, so quite rightly asks for a fee for his " second DJ ".

I still don't think this is the case here, I think he's trying to get a free roadie, instead of paying for one.
Sceptical? Moi? :whistle:

[rth_discos]

I am on my own tomorrow unfortunately - my usually assistant would be a great help, especially given the weather!!
That should be included as standard though, not an add on.

Devil's Advocate... so you have created a price that you charge that includes the cost of a roadie, so that it's not some "extra" the B&G have to pay for.

So considering that you are on your own for this gig, have you reduced your fee, as the roadie isn't now involved?

Could it be claimed the other DJ is more fair by offering this as an additional extra, rather than lumping it in to the fee?

As I say, purely playing Devil's Advocate. But an interesting different angle to look at it by.

[Excalibur]

Devil's Advocate... so you have created a price that you charge that includes the cost of a roadie, so that it's not some "extra" the B&G have to pay for.

So considering that you are on your own for this gig, have you reduced your fee, as the roadie isn't now involved?

Could it be claimed the other DJ is more fair by offering this as an additional extra, rather than lumping it in to the fee?

As I say, purely playing Devil's Advocate. But an interesting different angle to look at it by.

And one of the hairs I referred to is now split. Good point.

And another viewpoint might be that the price sans roadie is the correct one, and with roadie, Toby absorbs the extra cost himself for the benefit of the extra pair of hands. If Toby ( or anyone else ) does all the work, he gets the extra money.

That then leads on to the question of whether the service with only one operator is in any is less than with two? Should we all turn out every time double teamed? In the Good Old Days, I can remember some folk being astonished that we turned up singlehanded. It just wasn't done.

I can see this one having legs. :)

[dicky]

Have to agree with Peter actually - in all the time I DJEd from late 70s into the mid 80s there were two of us owning, running and operating the disco (actually had two 'partnerships' with two other DJs at that time, the second one was formed after myself and my future brother in law at the time decided to stop DJing and split the kit which we owned between us half and half

I was looking to sell up my half and I then came across a guy on the old CB rig who also ran a disco but he and his brother had split (brother married)

He also had 'half a disco' and was interested in buying my gear. One meeting and a quick chat set up the second DJ partnership that lasted three more years till I married

I think that having 2 DJs was the norm back then too. Never thought about it before but I wonder when and more interestingly why that changed?



Winding forwards 30 years..... when I started back my friend Mac was acting as my roadie. Within 2 months he had his own rig and was taking bookings (initially my 'overspill' bookings, and then his own)

Now we basically work together a lot of the time - if we can both set up at our venues during the daytime (or one of us can) then the other helps with the setup and vice versa

If only one of us has a booking sometimes (tonight's wedding being a good example) we DJ together and split the money - we probably do this at least twice a month and find it is an enjoyable experience working together and bouncing ideas on musical selection. We do this like others were saying, short stints (maybe 6-10 tracks) swapping backwards and forwards.

Actually we now also market both discos together on our local advertising and via facebook links - we kinds think it makes us look more.... hmmmmm... professional???.... as folks get the impression we are serious palyers ie a multi-DJ operator rather than your average mobile disco? Basically whoever's number gets called from an enquiry gets first shout should the booking be made or it came directly in their name - though we have different expertise in some musical areas too so then it's who the booking most suits and/or who is not already booked on that date.

Personally I think this is a good thing - but as mentioned by others, no we don't charge any extra. You just get one or the other or both of us. same price

Maybe we are quite unusual in the way we operate this? Would like to think there are others out there doing similar though.

dickysdisco.com (Rich)
cmcmusic.co.uk (Mac)

[ckpr2]

On the first disco I worked for we could have up to 4 DJ's.
4 lifting in/out the gear made it much easier.
We could also take turns on the decks giving others a break.
If one or more of us pulled then the others would carry on DJing and take out the gear at the end of the night.
If we did games then we had a DJ on the decks and another out on the floor directing people.

Most of us were under 25 so pulling was always on the menu.
Also we did DJing for the fun of it rather than the money which could be as little £2 a night.
This was in the 1970's

[Benny Smyth]

There are all sorts of hairs to split as to whether the " second DJ " is merely a roadie who knows where the play button is, or similar...

Boom. About 90% of the reasoning in this thread of what a 'second DJ' is for is, in my view, the definition of a roadie. If I tell my nephew to press play whilst I go off for a pee, that doesn't make him a DJ no more than I taking a picture would make me a photographer.


Unless: After being told he could back the van up to the stage to unload, and quoting for this, he's subsequently told it's up three flights of stairs, two corridors and an electronic security door, so quite rightly asks for a fee for his " second DJ ".

One of the terms in the contract I have is the right to surcharge for difficult access (which would be bought up at the consultation stage). However, for every gig, I always account for a roadie because I have to. It's a term in the booking agreement that I have never utilised, but is there just in case we have to walk over the three peaks to load in.

[Shaun]

The guys I bought my first set of equipment from way back in the day were a double team. Both had their independent record collections with both having very different styles of music and DJ'ing. They used to to alternate every 20 to 30 minutes but they would both do a lot of mic work together on the night, bouncing off each other. I only got to see them work once, at a School Disco after I agreed to buy the gear of them - they invited me along to see it all setup and in action. They were really excellent at what they did with great banter between them over the mic - it was more of a show than a regular disco.

I've never seen a 2 man mobile disco show since. DJ & Roadie, yes....but 2 separate DJs, no.

[yourdj]

Break out the bunting Toby, because basically I agree with you.:

:rolleyes: yay.


Devil's Advocate... so you have created a price that you charge that includes the cost of a roadie, so that it's not some "extra" the B&G have to pay for.

So considering that you are on your own for this gig, have you reduced your fee, as the roadie isn't now involved?

Could it be claimed the other DJ is more fair by offering this as an additional extra, rather than lumping it in to the fee?

As I say, purely playing Devil's Advocate. But an interesting different angle to look at it by.

Devils advocate is good. :)

I have only ever worked with one person and they have worked for free (for experience) so come when they are available. He is Charlie Rogers and won the NADJ award so is doing well and has lots of his own work now so is not as available as he was. I don't really like people coming with me unless they listen to me and do things the way I like them to be done and he excels at that (He has been helping me since the age of 15). http://nadj.org.uk/latest-nadj-news/775-nadj-scholarship-presentation-at-the-pro-mobile-conference.html

I have never included the roadie price in my package, but have started paying him based on how useful he was relating to the venue and the event. Its pretty nominal really and comes out of my pocket however and just covers his time really. We are good friends and I help him out when i get the time, so pay him back. Its not really anything official as i can manage on my own for 95% of all day events (evenings are a doodle). On the odd instance i have to announce anything and have entrance music a member of staff is always willing to press play as i only do local venues so know most of them (I need to look into a remote for that).

Having said that i had a hot all day on Sat and Sun and really missed his assistance, especially in the evening as people tend to sit outside so its uber boring. I had 4 in a row this week (and last) so having him DJ last night was great as the service had been a bit off and i had to be on them all day (e.g. cake not being served with the buffet etc.). My wife and her sister were in the photo booth so it was great fun. Yes i pay them too, and thats included in the cost - LOL. :)

don't know what the total fee was, but even having 2 roadies on, lets say, £50 a day would not be a huge percentage in relation to the advantage of having them help. Just being able to talk to the C&B manager while the kit is being set up looks good and frees up your time for other things. I would obviously account for that if it was a upstairs all day conference and needed lots of kit to set up. This would be included in the initial quote and discussed at the meeting.

As the detail and personalisation grows I want to get to the point where I can MC a wedding and have an assistant roadie who is also a DJ (Like last night) as my time will be more and more taken up with hosting. The last thing i should be doing when they are doing group shot etc. is being stuck in the function room setting up kit, as often i can't set up the evening gear until later. In that case the fee will be slightly higher than it is now (to cover DJ costs & improved service) and come out of the total and it will be advertised as myself and assistant/DJ also. I will explain the benefit of the above at a client meeting so no hidden costs. They also have the piece of mind that if I drop dead then there is back up. :)