Free alternative to Echosign

[super-hero]

Can anyone recommend a free alternative to Echosign.

I am looking for a way to get my booking forms signed, without having to pay a monthly fee.


What do you guy use. Thanks.

[Excalibur]

If you have less than five per month, Echosign always used to be free, and linking it to something else doubled it. I don't know if this still applies.
Whether there are free alternatives, I don't know, but for what it costs, I'm more than happy with Echosign.

[Nakatomi]

If you have less than five per month, Echosign always used to be free, and linking it to something else doubled it. I don't know if this still applies.
Whether there are free alternatives, I don't know, but for what it costs, I'm more than happy with Echosign.

Adobe now call it something else & the entry bar is just under £15 a month. No freebies for UK individual users anymore.

I'm going to need a system for e-signing too but I'd hesitate to fork out that much dosh.

[Benny Smyth]

Having your clients electronically type their names onto your booking agreement (via Word, for example) is as legally binding as a signature (the document can be electronically linked to the computer they used, thus proving it's they who 'signed').

I was sceptical when I first heard that but I have a friend who is a solicitor who he helped me with the ins and outs of my booking agreement, and he confirmed this to be true.

[Excalibur]

Adobe now call it something else & the entry bar is just under £15 a month. No freebies for UK individual users anymore.

I'm going to need a system for e-signing too but I'd hesitate to fork out that much dosh.

Don't quote me, but if I understand it right, it's $12.99 a month ( £10 ??? ) and that gives you a full version of Acrobat.

I can't find my billing details, but I also think I'm paying a lot less than that, perhaps because I was already a customer?

[Nakatomi]

Don't quote me, but if I understand it right, it's $12.99 a month ( £10 ??? ) and that gives you a full version of Acrobat.

I can't find my billing details, but I also think I'm paying a lot less than that, perhaps because I was already a customer?

20 per month, standard subscription. Or if you pay in yearly lumps, £11,42 per month.


Http://acrobat.adobe.com/uk/en/pricing/pricing.html

This doesn't actually seem that bad, but right now I'm thinking "do I really need this?".

I can create fillable pdf forms with Libre Office, and if as Benny says the reader program signs the doc, job done. All adobe are doing is taking a fee for being the middleman.

[ppentertainments]

Having your clients electronically type their names onto your booking agreement (via Word, for example) is as legally binding as a signature (the document can be electronically linked to the computer they used, thus proving it's they who 'signed').

I was sceptical when I first heard that but I have a friend who is a solicitor who he helped me with the ins and outs of my booking agreement, and he confirmed this to be true.

Controversial post coming up.

To go one step further I have also been told by a solicitor that a signature is not necessary provided a trail of agreement is present ie emails back and forth.

For the past year I have not had any signatures on agreements. I simply send out a filled in booking form together with T&C for the client to check and they send an email back agreeing and saying the deposit has been paid - anything for an easy life lol.

On the grand scheme of things, for me it is not worth the hassle. Realistically if someone is going to cancel and refuse to pay I am not going to go down the route of chasing the money and risk being slated on Facebook. The 2 cancellations I have had this year have both paid without any problems.

Bigger contracts I revert back to good old pen and paper for signatures as they are few and far between obviously.

I've tried echosign etc but found a lot of people got confused by it, I make my booking process as simple as possible.

[Excalibur]

Controversial post coming up.

I've tried echosign etc but found a lot of people got confused by it, I make my booking process as simple as possible.

I think I've had about three misfires in over a hundred. One where the client's firewall wouldn't let Echosign in. Similar amount of confused clients, but an overwhelming number who were very impressed.

Only thing I'm noticing is an increase in people replying to the Echosign email, rather than to my address. I might have to put a note somewhere about that. On the rare occasions I've used Royal Mail, it brings it home how inefficient that is.

Add in an inventory of all documents sent, sogned and cancelled, well I shan't be changing any time soon.

[Jim - Scotland's Party DJ]

Since when does Echosign charge you? I've not noticed that.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I've just checked and I've had 480 completed agreements on there and can remember three people who had an issue with "type your name in the box and it will generate a signature for you". For the money it's great and provides an online backup of all your contracts. Not sure I'd trust a free software to manage agreements with financial information etc... considering it's a pretty low fee.

[Shaun]

Since when does Echosign charge you? I've not noticed that.

Perhaps the charge is only for new free customers, and they're honouring the free deal for those that signed up prior to Adobe's acquisition of Echosign?


I'm a fan of Echosign, or Adobe Document Cloud eSign Services (as it's now known). Moving to an eSign service totally revolutionised my booking process. It wasn't unknown to take 2 or 3 weeks in the past to send booking forms out, wait on their return with a cheque, wait for the cheque to clear etc. It could be quite a rigmarole. And a nightmare the few times booking forms had got "lost in the post"

Now it's not unusual to have a signed form, payment in the bank and booking completely finalised within half an hour. At the relatively small cost it is, it's good value for me.

As for free alternatives. I wouldn't know where to look, so unfortunately can't offer any advice, sorry.

[DazzyD]

The free Adobe Reader (from v11 I think) allows you to sign digital documents. I was doing it this way for a while as most people would have this one their computers and it was a ten second task to type your name in to the box (that you'd set up when you created the document) and then save it ready to email back to you.

However, ...


Controversial post coming up.

To go one step further I have also been told by a solicitor that a signature is not necessary provided a trail of agreement is present ie emails back and forth.

For the past year I have not had any signatures on agreements. I simply send out a filled in booking form together with T&C for the client to check and they send an email back agreeing and saying the deposit has been paid - anything for an easy life lol.On the grand scheme of things, for me it is not worth the hassle. Realistically if someone is going to cancel and refuse to pay I am not going to go down the route of chasing the money and risk being slated on Facebook. The 2 cancellations I have had this year have both paid without any problems.

Bigger contracts I revert back to good old pen and paper for signatures as they are few and far between obviously.

I've tried echosign etc but found a lot of people got confused by it, I make my booking process as simple as possible.

However, I also realised that you just need them to accept your terms and this can be done by them emailing you "I accept your terms and, as you requested, I've transferred the NRBF to your account.". Agreement obtained and all done and dusted!! :)

[surround sounds]

I love Adobe Document Cloud eSign and being only around £120 its peanuts over a year.

[Spirits High]

Just double checked how much I pay for echosign or "Send for Signature" as it's now called and it's $1.99

I signed up for Echosign after being shown it on one of our Benidorm networking events and a t the time it was approx $19 ish. Adobe then made the new system and I was changed to this package for $1.99, exactly the same as what as I was getting with echosign.

Here's the link for you https://acrobat.adobe.com/us/en/products/send-for-signature.html

[Nakatomi]

Just double checked how much I pay for echosign or "Send for Signature" as it's now called and it's $1.99

I signed up for Echosign after being shown it on one of our Benidorm networking events and a t the time it was approx $19 ish. Adobe then made the new system and I was changed to this package for $1.99, exactly the same as what as I was getting with echosign.

Here's the link for you https://acrobat.adobe.com/us/en/products/send-for-signature.html

Aha! Brilliant!

You don't need Acrobarf just to make a PDF (I have a grudge against Adobe, for Flash among other things). I have no trouble using LibreOffice (free as in FREE BEER!) to make PDF forms & it's pretty much completely compatible with MS Office. I've done some pretty complex stuff with LibreOffice over the years - and sent it to customers (in my day job) using MS Office & had no issues at all.

Just make the doc/form in LibreOffice, go to the file menu & select 'export as PDF'. Simples!

[rth_discos]

Can anyone recommend a free alternative to Echosign.

I am looking for a way to get my booking forms signed, without having to pay a monthly fee.


What do you guy use. Thanks.

How funny, we all moan about sixty quid sids and how no one wants to pay for a decent DJ... and then we want someone to code, host and support a website for a vital service (e-signature) for free...

Let me reword the request...



Can anyone recommend a free alternative to Royal Mail.

I am looking for a way to get my booking forms posted, without having to pay for a stamp.

Sounds silly like that doesn't it...!

[DJ Jules]

I'm using Signable.co.uk which you buy credits for. From memory if you buy a minimal number of credits it's £1 per signing, if you buy more the price goes down from there. I've only had one misfire out of about 80 on there, for some reason the customer just never got the emails from the service so we reverted to paper.

On the subject of what is and isn't legally enforceable... I've only had one booking where I've had a cancellation and I've had to enforce my booking terms and it was a dry hire. Because dry hire's aren't generally worth much to me, I don't tend to go down the route of contracts and deposits, but I do take a home address and contact number and I make sure that I iterate that customers should read my terms and conditions of hire which are publicly available on my website. If customers cancel, I usually don't cry about it, but I had one earlier this year where the bride booked the hire and told the groom to arrange to collect it, then the groom booked a time to come and collect and didn't show, and then emailed an hour later to tell me someone else was coming to collect and then emailed again to say someone else was coming and then eventually at 4:30pm I received a voice mail from the bride telling that they'd found someone else. One strongly worded email later about how I will enforce my cancellation terms (100% payable if cancellation less than 14d before the event) and they paid in full once they returned from their honeymoon.

Would it have stood up in court? Quite possibly, as I had an email trail showing that I had made the cancellation policy quite clear and then I had emails from them showing their intent to go ahead right up to the day itself.

Julian

[DazzyD]

How funny, we all moan about sixty quid sids and how no one wants to pay for a decent DJ... and then we want someone to code, host and support a website for a vital service (e-signature) for free...

Let me reword the request...



Can anyone recommend a free alternative to Royal Mail.

I am looking for a way to get my booking forms posted, without having to pay for a stamp.

Sounds silly like that doesn't it...!

I think you're very wide of the mark here. In today's economic environment it makes sense to reduce your overheads and if you can use a free service to help with the administration of your business then all the better. There are free and paid-for options and each has it's place. It's up to the user which one suits their needs best. Let's remember, the "free" option is usually a feature-limited, cut-down version of the real thing. Free options as used to demo the full product in the hope that people decide to upgrade.

Also, there is a free alternative to Royal Mail for sending out your paperwork. It's called electronic mail but is better known as "email"!! ;)

Let's look at this a different way. When a lightbulb goes in your lights - disco or even home domestic - do you call in a qualified electrician or do you change it yourself? In theory, it's an electrical issue so the electrician would be the best person to do the job. However, I'd happily bet a cup of coffee that you replace that lamp yourself. It's quicker, easier, and you don't have to pay yourself for labour costs. And, the quality of your work in changing that lightbulb is likely to be on a par with the electrician because it's a relatively simple procedure. DJing is not. Experience and skill counts in the entertainment industry which is why we just want a fair fee for the work we do. And our work is likely to be a lot better, in terms of good customer experience, than that of a Sid!

[rth_discos]

I think you're very wide of the mark here. In today's economic environment it makes sense to reduce your overheads and if you can use a free service to help with the administration of your business then all the better.

I know I was being very black and white about it, and a little tongue in cheek, but let's not forget the reason we get an e-signature - a backup in case anything goes wrong. When you need to use that e-signature, it's worth ensuring that the service you are using was suitable for it.

[Excalibur]

How funny, we all moan about sixty quid sids and how no one wants to pay for a decent DJ... and then we want someone to code, host and support a website for a vital service (e-signature) for free...

!


I think you're very wide of the mark here. I
Actually, I think he's spot on. As Professionals, we should be using the most suitable tool for the job, at the best price. I'm all for cost saving, but it's a false economy if for some reason, when you need it most, there's a bit missing. I believe that when standing up in front of whatever judging body you end up with, telling them you use a fully paid for professional system for contracts stands you in better stead than " Well I use this bit of free software, and I make sure I send plenty of emails asking them to confirm they want to book Slippery Sid's Stunning Sounds " .
Doesn't matter what you use ninety nine times out of a hundred, but when the solids hit the air conditioning, I want my argument to withstand close inspection.


I know I was being very black and white about it, and a little tongue in cheek,
Nothing wrong with that son, ah say nothing wrong with that. F Leghorn. :)


but let's not forget the reason we get an e-signature - a backup in case anything goes wrong. When you need to use that e-signature, it's worth ensuring that the service you are using was suitable for it.
Exactamundo.

[Excalibur]

Just double checked how much I pay for echosign or "Send for Signature" as it's now called and it's $1.99

I signed up for Echosign after being shown it on one of our Benidorm networking events and at the time it was approx $19 ish. Adobe then made the new system and I was changed to this package for $1.99, exactly the same as what as I was getting with echosign.

Here's the link for you https://acrobat.adobe.com/us/en/products/send-for-signature.html

Well today's email from Adobe made me choke on my cornflakes! :eek::mad: Like Paul, I had signed up for the paid Echosign, after exceeding my free allowance ( which used to be five per thirty days, ten if you linked it to Facebook, or something).

Adobe then slashed it to a couple of quid a month, until this morning. Wow! If I pay monthly, it's £15 per month. Paying the whole wodge upfront drops it to £10. Currently, neither option looks particularly attractive. I can see me biting the bullet, but I'm not a happy bunny.

Thoughts/alternatives, anyone? :confused:

[Nakatomi]

According to a few people an electronic signature can be a tickbox. The system I currently use called MDJM sits on WordPress, has online payment gateways & accepts signing of contracts by customers. The only snag is, its developer seems to have gone AWOL so I'm in the process of swapping over to DJEP which offers all these things and more. I'm so averse to spending money I could be from further North but I reckon it's a price worth paying. If the shills at Adobe want 15 quid a month just for contract signatures you could argue it'd be worth migrating to DJEP or similar.

[Marc J]

Thoughts/alternatives, anyone? :confused:

No idea what they're like, but I dismissed a notification from Dropbox the other day, which was touting some digital signing software. Having a dig around it could have been https://www.hellosign.com or https://www.dropbox.com/en_GB/app-integrations/docusign, they seem to have two on the go...or are at least partnered with more than one...?

[Benny Smyth]

I'm going to chat to my web guys when I launch the photography website for a page on my website (that can only be accessed from a link that I send) with the Terms Of Business on it and underneath that, a form to fill out their names, contact numbers, email, postal address, venue, date etc. Once sent, they'll get a copy via email and I'll get one too. Should be easy enough, I'd have thunked?

[Marc J]

I'm going to chat to my web guys when I launch the photography website for a page on my website (that can only be accessed from a link that I send) with the Terms Of Business on it and underneath that, a form to fill out their names, contact numbers, email, postal address, venue, date etc. Once sent, they'll get a copy via email and I'll get one too. Should be easy enough, I'd have thunked?

Easy to do, it's just a form at the end of the day. But will it stand up legally if you ever need it to?

[Excalibur]

. If the shills at Adobe want 15 quid a month just for contract signatures you could argue it'd be worth migrating to DJEP or similar.
Your logic and financial acumen are spot on. Sadly, having spoken to someone who knows about these things, DJEP is a step too far for an old git who struggles with technology sometimes. Were I even ten years younger, I think I might consider it, but it could easily turn out that it's simply too complicated to implement in a short timeframe. Thanks anyway.


No idea what they're like, but I dismissed a notification from Dropbox the other day, which was touting some digital signing software. Having a dig around it could have been https://www.hellosign.com or https://www.dropbox.com/en_GB/app-integrations/docusign, they seem to have two on the go...or are at least partnered with more than one...?

Marc, thanks for the links, I looked at these. Hellosign is promising, but sadly, not a lot cheaper. If I pay upfront, I think it's the same price, having converted dollars to pounds. Dropbox is good news, bad news.
Good news, £10 per month.
Bad news, per user, minimum three users. :doh:

Thanks everyone, looks like if only for continuity, I will have to fork out to Adobe. I think there might be an introductory discount, but I think I have to sign up to the new scheme first to find out what it is. At that point, I guess I choose free or paid. I'll keep you posted.

[DJ Jules]

Easy to do, it's just a form at the end of the day. But will it stand up legally if you ever need it to?

This is what you're really paying for by using a 3rd party - an independently verifiable source of truth that can't be refuted.

I used to use signable.co.uk - You can either pay as you go for £1/form or subscribe for 50 forms for £19/month. It used to work out OK for me as the number of signatures were quite small. If you Google (https://www.google.com/search?q=esignature&rlz=1C1GCEA_enGB870GB870&oq=esignature&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l5.1375j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) there's a whole host of others providing signing services now. Hopefully a bit of competition will drive down some of the pricing!

Julian

[Marc J]

https://eversign.com/pricing seems a little cheaper?

Or https://legalesign.com/pricing/

[Nakatomi]

This is what you're really paying for by using a 3rd party - an independently verifiable source of truth that can't be refuted.

Julian

For the kind of fees we're talking about Vs the cost of subscription Vs what we stand to win should anything go to court , taking into account how often we'd end up needing to raise an issue...and the likelihood of actually GETTING what we're due I really don't think 15 quid a month for (for me) up to 8 forms is really worth it Vs a client ticking a box. Could it be falsified? Probably but could I be bothered to? Meh nope. Customer who doesn't tick the box gets chased til they do.

[Steven]

For the kind of fees we're talking about Vs the cost of subscription Vs what we stand to win should anything go to court , taking into account how often we'd end up needing to raise an issue...and the likelihood of actually GETTING what we're due I really don't think 15 quid a month for (for me) up to 8 forms is really worth it Vs a client ticking a box. Could it be falsified? Probably but could I be bothered to? Meh nope. Customer who doesn't tick the box gets chased til they do.

No signey, no bookey.

like Justin i'm on MDJM which i love, i couldn't do the amount i do now without it however that's also now my problem seeing as i may have to migrate to DJEP since the developer has vanished. However with about 75 live bookings to transfer over alongside a new CRM to learn its not a task i'm wanting to rush into, considering the current one still works (for now).

[ppentertainments]

like Justin i'm on MDJM which i love, i couldn't do the amount i do now without it however that's also now my problem seeing as i may have to migrate to DJEP since the developer has vanished. However with about 75 live bookings to transfer over alongside a new CRM to learn its not a task i'm wanting to rush into, considering the current one still works (for now).
I know you have mentioned that before - I am in the same process, but have decided to run 2 systems until next April, on the basis that most people April onwards haven't yet started to fill in details. Also means the majority of bookings taken will have passed by then. About 100 to transfer and took me a day to do - but was mind numbingly boring, if I could have found somebody I would have paid someone to do it :daft::daft:

I don't like any of their CRM so luckily managed to dodge any new learning in that respect lol.

[Benny Smyth]

Easy to do, it's just a form at the end of the day. But will it stand up legally if you ever need it to?

From a legal standpoint (and my knowledge of this is a few years old now, so will need to research any updates), you can send an email to a client with your terms and if they reply with "Yup, dats cool, yo!" then that is binding. The process I'm proposing would essentially be the same, but using the website instead.

[Marc J]

From a legal standpoint (and my knowledge of this is a few years old now, so will need to research any updates), you can send an email to a client with your terms and if they reply with "Yup, dats cool, yo!" then that is binding. The process I'm proposing would essentially be the same, but using the website instead.

Email I don't have issue with, yes they are legally binding, just ask this guy (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-49893909)!

What I suspect would be harder to prove, if push came to shove, is that an email initiated from submitting a form on your own website's server would be binding. Even if the URL is secret, is it unique to each client? Even if it is, what's to say it's not their partner / mother / dog who filled in the form? All you have as proof is perhaps the IP address of whoever filled in the form, but as that's on your own server / form processor that's arguably very easy for you to fake.

So it becomes more complicated than a simple form behind a simple link.

[DeckstarDeluxe]

I've heard people mention these guys, might be worth checking out? https://www.signable.co.uk/

From what I can see, I've not had any comms to say my echosign is going up in price that much.

[Excalibur]

I've heard people mention these guys, might be worth checking out? https://www.signable.co.uk/

From what I can see, I've not had any comms to say my echosign is going up in price that much.

I got the email yesterday. Are you perhaps on some sort of higher plan, which isn't being streamlined/rationalised/assimilated? :confused: